The College Basketball Player (Quincey this is for you)
I am posting this thread because last night between rtbt and quincey it led to a huge argument that turned into racism and lost it's point of the conservation. So I am going to say what I have to say and we'll go from there. My belief on the lack of college basketball players graduating (not including the players that go to the NBA) has nothing to do with them being black or white or dumb. What it has to do with is where they came from. One thing we always hear is a lot of these basketball players come from broken homes and the schools they come from are not very good and don't provide an education that prepares them for college. While the majority of these players happen to be Black, there are plenty of white guys who are not educationally equipped to be able to succeed in college courses let alone graduate. Now I have said a big part of it is many ball players come from schools that don't provide them a good enough education to prepare them for college, but once they get to college that blame can no longer be an excuse. If a player doesn't do well in college/go to class it falls on the individual for not going, like getting better at basketball you'll only get as much as you put in. For those who have never been to college, but the people who have can agree with me on this, colleges have many different types of support services to help all students athletes or not, succeed academically. Now the only blame I can put on a coach is that they don't show there players where these support services are in order for them to graduate. If I were a college coach, building character/having an impact/and graduating players would be my biggest goals because I believe if my players believe in the first two they will win games on the court, and eventually win off the court once they get there degree. I believe college isn't for everyone, but if you're there you have to take courses and pursue a degree. I have nothing wrong with guys trying to get to the NBA, but they need to pursue there education as well if the NBA/overseas don't work out due to injury as an example. Okay, that is probably one of my longest posts ever, but I want to hear what you guys have to say we have plenty of good minds on this site.
I vote for is for turner.
fastdan, I don't understand your post.
I agree for the most part, but I don't agree witht his statement..." I have nothing wrong with guys trying to get to the NBA, but they need to pursue there education as well if the NBA/overseas don't work out due to injury as an example."
I disagree...It's their choice. And like you said, college isn't for everyone. Why have some disinterested kid in college when he could be in the NBA making millions? Yes, it helps you prepare for the NBA, but lets be honest 1 year isn't going to transform a player. The one and done rule should be removed.
What I meant by that statement is if they're in college, and not the one and done type they need to pursue an education as well as improve upon there basketball skills. Yes it is there choice, but if they're in college even if it is for basketball they have to do the work and take the courses. I agree with you 100% on the one and done rule it is a joke, I like what college baseball does you can get drafted and go to that MLB team or if you decide to go to college you have to be there for 3 years until you're allowed to leave. I would like the same to be done for basketball because it would make the game better as well as the players coming into the NBA better as well as ready to contribute once in the league.
So you're saying that they should either come out of HS or stay in college for 3 years? I see some problems with that though. A lot of players think they need 1 or even 2 years of college to season their game. I'm not sure if they want to be in college for 3 years though. I'm talking about the 5 star recruits or the 4 star recruits with high upside here. Maybe it should be reduced to 2 years?
Im a bigger CBB fan then i am of the NBA, so dont get me wrong here, i love seeing these megastars(wall, durant, beasley, etc.) go to school so i can watch them play for a year, but the whole premise of the one and done rule is a joke, white or black, these kids should be allowed to pursue there careers, like you said, alot of these kids come from broken homes, bad neighborhoods, etc., so to make them go to basically a fake year of college so a bunch of rich white guys can line there pockets while these kids suffer is obsurd. Get rid of the one and done rule completely, and although i agree either a streight to the pros or a mandatory 2-3 years in college is better, even that to me is not needed, let the kids pursue there dreams and leave school whenever they want.
is basically whoring itself......they are so big about all their gay violations which btw get gayer and gayer as time passes.....meanwhile they have created the equivalent of MLB's farm system except times like 10.....and also except that this farm system doesn't equal one penny for the players = slavery....or at least endentured servants....
Lol, calling NCAAB slavery is a bit much, I mean these kids do get to go to school for free.
The thread on education last night, NCAA Graduation Rates, touched on race, but it was really about the values of the NCAA, the schools, and the head coaches versus education. Quincey didn't understand the nature of my post and he turned it into a racial debate.
There are good reasons why college administrators and head coaches don't place a premium on education. The schools make money and receive great national publicity when their athletic teams do well.
The coaches receive monster salaries, but only if they win. Unfortunately at most schools, graduation rates aren't factored into a coach's salary. That's why some people are suggesting a minimum 40% graduation rate be attained before schools are allowed into the NCAA Tournament. That's only 2 out of every 5 guys.
Here's an article I read this morning that gives you some idea as to how much money is involved in terms of just the head coaches. Kentucky's Calipari is currently the highest-paid coach in college basketball. He has an eight-year, $31.65 million deal. Calipari, will receive an additional $650,000 on top of his $3.7 million in guaranteed compensation this year.
And winning the NCAA tournament almost always means a new, more lucrative contract for a coach. After the University of Kansas won the national title in 2008, it tore up Bill Self's $1.6 million-a-year contract, which had three years remaining, and gave him a new 10-year, $30 million deal.
Until we demand that schools and head coaches make education a priority, it will never happen. Unfortunately most people only care about basketball, they couldn't care less about how those young men are being used and then sent back out into the world without a college degree. It's really sad because most of them have a scholarship that's probably worth around a quarter of a million dollars.
I find it a bit strange that the majority of top recruits, regardless of socioeconomic status, attend an elite prep school before going off to the college of their choice, yet they still struggle academically. Most of the average, everyday kids that go to prep school have to work their ass off to get into the school, then they work some more to stay in school. The "superstars" don't go through the same admissions process, nor do they have to hold the same academic standard once they're in school. Why should there be an exception for a few guys that can shoot and dunk a basketball?
It's the same at the college level. The best programs in the country (UNC for example) adhere to the NCAA's minimum admission process for athletes, yet hold regular applicants to a much higher standard.
OrangeJuiceJones, you sir have a great mind. I like the points you bring up because that is very true. I have never thought about that before. Though, I agree it is ridiculous, but that blame doesn't go towards the school rather the NCAA regulations for college athletes to get in. If you have higher grades, the lower the SAT/ACT score you need in order to play at a school, but if you're the average high school student you can have average grades get a high testing score, and be admitted to a school you have no place being in. Basketball should be used a vehicle that gets you to college and maybe further (NBA, NBDL, overseas), though that doesn't mean you should discount your college studies because that can take you to other great places as well.
OrangeJuiceJones wrote, "Why should there be an exception for a few guys that can shoot and dunk a basketball?" Although I completely agree with you, I think I answered that question with my post just before yours above. This has been going on for decades, it's all about money, publicity, and prestige. The school administrators, the head coaches, the assistant coaches, and the players all share the blame.
Having said that, there are schools such as Xavier, Georgetown, and Western Kentucky where the culture is different. At those schools you go to class and progress towards a diploma or you don't play. As a result of that culture where education is a priority, those schools have very high graduation rates, proving major college basketball and academic integrity can coexist.
As for playing pro ball, don't these kids realize that there are only 60 spots in the draft and that foreign teams are only allowed to sign a certain number of Americans? IMO, college basketball players would be better off pursuing a college degree because they could get a good job locally due to their reputation.
rtbt, the point you're missing is it is up to the school to have the mindset of graduating players, not the coaches. That is an unfortunate truth. There job isn't to graduate players, it is to win games and if it means all the players being barely eligible the university presidents could care less they have better things to do. Now with schools like Xavier, G'town, and WKU they won't hire a coach who doesn't have it in there interests to graduate his players.
OrangeJuiceJones, if you read my posts in the NCAA Graduation Rates you would have seen my comments about the women's NCAA tournament where the graduation rates are outstanding. In fact, in the 2009 women's tournament there were 14 schools with a 100% graduation rate.
The women come from the same neighborhoods and school systems as the male athletes but they achieve considerably more. Why is that? I think there are at least two answers, maybe more. Women in general are far more serious about education. Based upon the last study I read, women make up approximately 57% of the undergraduate population.
But I think there's something else at play. Women don't grow up with that illusion of "I'm gonna play in the NBA" when I grow up. Therefore, they place a much greater emphasis upon education.
Also, women basketball players don't make a fraction of what an NBA player would make, so they know that the basketball skills they possess won't make them so rich they're great grandchildren won't have to worry about money.
knicksfan7, I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. It's a combination of the school, the coaches, and the players. Having said that, coaches play a major role, so knicksfan7, please check out the following.
1. When Bobby Knight coached at Indiana, the graduation rate over 25 years was about 98%. Why? Because if you didn't go to class and do well in school, you didn't play. A lot of people didn't like Bobby Knight, but parents loved him.
2. Denny Crum coached Louisville for 25 years and was praised as a great head coach. 60 Minutes did a report on his program and told America in that quarter of a century, Crum didn't have one black player [starter] graduate. Can you believe that?
3. When John Thompson was the coach at Georgetown, he made sure his players went to class, studied, and progressed towards a degree. His son his following in his footsteps.
As I said above, it's a three pronged focus but head coaches have a tremendous impact on their players.
rtbt, I understand what you're saying. Though I don't know if you realize that coaches like Bobby Knight and John Thompson II had an intrinsic value on education, and expected that from there players to be students first, athletes second. If you look at there coaching trees such as Coach K for Knight and JT3 they have the same values and make sure they graduate there players.
knicksfan7, I completely agree with everything you said above.
And getting back to something I think OrangeJuiceJones mentioned, about kids having that great opportunity to get an education. Let's face it, a college scholarship is worth more than a quarter of a million dollars at most major universities. How can you waste such a golden opportunity?
And there was something else I wanted to add about these young men. In addition to getting a free education, they also have tutors who are there to help them every step of the way. if you want to succeed academically, there really is no excuse for failure.
But as we said so many times on this subject, too many guys have only one focus and that's basketball.
orange juice( by the way it just now hit me who that is...i used to love his song when i was younger "youre just a squairl trying to get a nut")...but as far as regular students getting into school,alot of them dont have to get a certain s.a.t score or have grades if theere parents have alot of money. thats all it takes to get into school. there shouldnt be any rule. if a player feels hes good enough he should go to the nba. as far as europe..there are roughly 2thousand first division teams overseas. all of which can have at least 3 americans on there team( 2 playing at a time) not counting those who become citizens so they dont count towards the team as a american or the ones who have european mothers,fathers,grand ma, pa, great grand, in which case they wont count as a american either. now thats 6thousand players making between 5-500k a month for 7 months. then not to include the second and third divisions in which guys can make a good 3-5thousand or mexico where you can make 10thousand a month. each season a good 20 -50 jobs open up in each country in the first division alone. with all those options some kids are starting to feel even if they dont gradutae or go to the nba they can still go overseas and make a great living.
the object of even going to school is to give youre self a better opportunity to get a good paying job. some of those players that dont graduate are doing that. some non athletes quit school to work for a family company or some job comes up that pays well.