I was just listening to NPR [National Public Radio] and heard a stat that most people don't care about it. However, for those of you who are interested, here's the information.
For the 65 teams in this year's men's tournament, the graduation rate for African American players is less than 20%. And before you bring it up, that does NOT count players who left early for the NBA. That means 8 out of 10 black players on the tournament teams never graduate. Wow! I knew it was pretty bad, but that stat is far worse than I thought.
I realize this isn't an issue for many, but the system needs to be changed big time. We need schools and coaches to make education a priority.
In the women's tournament, the graduation rate is phenomenal with many schools having 100% graduation rates. And there are some schools such as Xavier, Georgetown, and Western Kentucky where progress towards a degree is a high priority. Those are examples of schools who prove big time basketball and academics can co-exist.
A lot of guys who go to college to play basketball are just living in the moment and having fun and don't take school too seriously. They go to college becuase they are athletes and that is the next step up to continue playing their sport. Once their senior season ends, and they have already failed to take school serioulsy and put in the work neccessary towards a degree, they just find themsleves wondering what to do next. It's unfortunate that they don't take the opportunity of an education more seriously. But kids all over america do this very same thing after highschool, they just don't play sports so we never think about them. It comes down mostly to the parents installing an urgency in the kid to get a degree at an early age and not just in athletics.
exactly..you have to take into accoutn going to the nba and going overseas,d leauge, and other pro leauges that pay. the graduation rate doesnt matter if they are getting paid alot or paid enough to live. isnt that the purpose of going to college? you go to college so you can have the chance to get a good paying job. on the surface it looks bad but when you look deeper its not as bad as it seems
its like a the stat of 9 out of 10 white players dont end up going to the nba. i knew alot of white guys werent that good but that really suprised me
i also forgot about how alot of white familys can afford to keep sending there kids to school after basketball to graduate. for the guys who arent good enough to make it playing ball they cant afford to pay for continued education to graduate. this goes back to wayyyyy back when blacks werent given the chance to earn a living but instead were used as slaves to help build america for the white man. money stayed in the white race for generations after and jobs where given not to those who were more qualified but to those whos skin color was white, doesnt happen as much today but it still happens.
The commentator on NPR specifically mentioned this stat excluded players who dropped out of school to play pro basketball.
which is what my next post addressed
where can i get a trascript of this.. cuz the more im looking the more it looks like that they only exclude those who dont make it in the nba and not those who make it playing in other pro leauges
one more thing i also forgot to mention is that if someone gets a nice job without graduating( alot of my friends have) then graduating doesnt matter because the point of going to college is to get a good job
i hear what your saying on blacks having a tougher up hill climb due to history. But that's why it would be nice to see more use an athletic scholarship as an opportunity to get a degree. And im not talking about the guys who are gonna make a living playing ball. I mean the guys who barely got a scholarship and need to have a backup plan.
A example of this is from that movie Hoop Dreams. One of the older brothers of one of the kids got a basketball scholarship but then got hurt his freshman year and wasn't able to play anymore. The school said he was no longer gonna be on the team due to the injury, but they would honor his 4 year scholarship. He turned it down and went back home becuase he wasn't interested in school. Somebody at some point should have slapped him upside the head and made him realize there was more then sports.
^..now that right there is dumb.. he should have accepted that offer. but thats not the norm as far as schools willing to continue to pay for schooling. once that scholarship is up after those four years you are on youre own as far as finishing up for you're degree. i know alot of white guys who were very good in basketball do the same thing because they were so used to being good and thought they would make it. if more white kids were as good as black kids in basketball and there families having lower incomes we would see the graduation rate drop for white basketball players as well
Where did you come up with that idea that white families some how have all this money available to pay for college after their sons fail to study while they were on scholarship? It sounds like mumbo jumbo to me and doesn't jive with most of the white families I know who cannot afford today's sky high tuition rates.
And now we're supposed believe that white families can somehow come up with a quarter of a million dollars to finance their son's education after he flunked out while on scholarship. That doesn't pass the logic test.
go look it it..a higher percentage of white familes who's sons go to college for basketball have a higher income then black familes whos sons go to college for basketball. the stats take into account more white familes then just the ones you know
quincey, i agree that white athletes in many cases take sports too seriously and neglect academics. Im not making htis a white vs black thing, you brought up black kids not having the same fair shake first. But there was nothing about my statement that was dumb what so ever.
also look at at which ones have both parents which usually leads to higher family income
llperez22...my thats dumb statement was towards the guy who turned down that offer to have his school paid for. reread the first line
rtbt- i really question if you are a undercover racists. i say this because ive noticed anytime some one brings up a topic where blacks out do white you are quick to jump in and go into this big thing about whites being just as athletic or this and that...and how you dont agree with racism. but there were 3 other post about how whites were better at this or that and you didnt say a word even though you were online. then you are quick to bring up things that would make blacks look bad. ive asked you about this before as too why you only speak up when the topic is putting down a white player or comparing a white player to another white player. you try to be slick and do it under the radar but ive caught on to it each time. if no one believes me ask adi to pull up post that he has commented on dealing with race and see what im talking about
i read your first line perfectly. If you didn't mean it towards me, then i appologize for assuming it was. But it was not clear what so ever who you were reffering to when you said "that's dumb" and pointed an arrow directly above you at my post.
and why did you even bring something like this up?..what was the point you were trying to make?..all this does is add to my point that i really think you are a racist, just liek i would seemliek one if i did the same thing or put up a post saying how many white college guys end up being serial killers or the worst crimes commited by college guys were done by white college guys. or all the things white people have done in the world liek lynching black people and making them slaves. what place would any opf that have on this site?....as a black man i know what the graduation rates are. i dont know specificlly but i do know how bad it is but do i need some racists bring it up on a place where all people wanna do is talk basketball? HELL NO. to be honest you lost all respect from me in every sense of the word reguadless if you care or not because this isnt the place for things like that
Quincey, once again you make up some mumbo jumbo to cover up your lack of logic and ability to think clearly. All anyone has to do is read your racist comments and they can draw their own conclusions. It's typical of most people who cannot think logically to throw wild allegations at others to cover up their own bias.
Unlike you, I don't read and follow every topic on this website. There are many comments and threads I never look at, so I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Getting back to logic, if you're interested in an intelligent discussion, please read my next post.
lol.....i feel ya.. the arrows were ment to be pointing to youre comment about the kid not taking that offer
why did you even make a post about that?..did you just not care how black people would feel about it?...im really not understand why you would bring that up. this isnt a political debate fourm.
If one examines the graduation rates of the schools in the women's NCAA tournament, you will find graduation rates that approach 100%. In last year's NCAA women's tournament, 14 schools had a perfect graduation rate and the majority of players were black.
Those young women grow up in the same families, neighborhoods, and attended the same schools as their male counterparts. But unlike the men, they excel in school. I think women in our culture place a far greater priority on education and they don't have that "I'm going to play in the NBA illusion" when they're growing up.
And then there are those rare schools such as Western Kentucky, Georgetown, and Xavier where the men have outstanding graduation rates. Do you know why? Because they take school seriously. The head coach and the universities created a culture where the young men were expected to study hard and graduate, so they did. It proves that big time college basketball and academics are not incompatible.
Another good example was a coach I don't care for, but he did something right. Almost all of Bobby Knight's players graduated. I think the graduation rate at Indiana was 98% when he was the head coach.
A more specific profile of a serial killer has been presented by Apsche (1993) stating that most are white males in their twenties or thirties, who target strangers near their homes or places of work. "According to criminologist Eric Hickey, who has assembled the most extensive database on demography of serial murder states that, 88% of serial killers are male, 85% are Caucasian
and the point you were trying to make by making a post about how black kids dont graduate college at a high rate is what?... i dont see you making any post about anything thats not positive about white college students
whats the point you are trying to make?..that black basketball players arent smart?
Quincey, if you can stop being so emotional, accusatory, and listen for a minute, you might understand why I started this thread. So please read the next few sentences.
As I mentioned above, black female basketball players have exceedingly high graduation rates. Black male players at schools where education is a high priority, such as Xavier, Western Kentucky, Georgetown, and Indiana, when Bobby Knight was the head coach, also have exceedingly high graduation rates.
So my point is very simple. If people like Quincey stop making stupid excuses and insist that young black male basketball players take advantage of the golden opportunity their athletic scholarship gave them, they could be set for life.
We need more coaches and more university Presidents to insist that their athletic coaches prioritize education. If the schools and head coaches creates a culture where academics are number one, it can happen.
I cannot verify the first post's info. Here are a couple of recent links on the subject.
The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport (TIDES) at the University of Central Florida released its annual study, “Keeping Score When It Counts: Graduation Rates for 2010 NCAA Men’s Division I Basketball Tournament Teams” which is the most comprehensive analysis to date of the NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament‐bound teams. The study examines the Graduation Success Rates (GSR) and Academic Progress Rates (APR) for the tournament teams as reported by the NCAA. The study also compares the performance in the classroom for African‐American and white basketball student‐athletes. Dr. Richard Lapchick, the primary author of the study, is director of The Institute and Chair of the DeVos Sport Business Management Graduate Program at UCF. The study was co‐authored this year by Christopher Kaiser and Brian Hoff.
Lapchick noted that “There is again positive academic news for the tournament teams when we examine the GSR and the APR. There was a two percentage point increase for all male student‐athletes to 64 percent. Eighty‐four percent of white and 56 percent of African‐American men’s Division I basketball student‐athletes graduate, increasing six percentage points for white basketball student‐athletes and by two percentage points for African‐American basketball student‐athletes compared to last year’s study.”
Based on the GSR, 44 teams or 69 percent of the total graduated at least 50 percent of their basketball student‐athletes (up from 63 percent in 2009). In addition, 37 teams (58 percent, a 10 percentage point increase from 2009) graduated at least 60 percent and 29 teams (45 percent, also a 10 percentage point increase from 2009) graduated at least 70 percent. Only 12 teams (19 percent, down from 24 percent in 2009) graduated less than 40 percent.
the thing is blacks arent the only ones who do that..every race does that yet i dont see you putting up studies about other races nor do i ever see you put anything up about youre own race flaws.... how about you even it out now and put a post about a flaw from youre race or o you just like putting down another race with info that has no place in this chat room?
every post this guy makes is to defend white guys but when it comes to blacks he wants to point out something negitive. the kicker is at the end
"Wow! I knew it was pretty bad, but that stat is far worse than I thought"
does anyone else see what was the point of him posting that on this fourm?.
Quincey, did you read what I wrote? Other than a specific group of black male basketball players who don't take advantage of a college scholarship, I spent a lot of time praising others.
I talked about Georgetown, Western Kentucky, Indiana, and Xavier where black male graduation rates approach 100%. Did you read that?
I talked about the overwhelming stellar academic performance of black female athletes. Did you read that?
For some reason, you want to take little bits of what I write and somehow allege that I'm a racist. I think you should read your own comments and you will see some very crude racial remarks. You should also stop making excuses for people who are given opportunities by this great country and fail to take advantage of a once in a lifetime chance with a scholarship probably worth a quarter of a million dollars.
I'm talking about changing the culture of major college basketball, placing greater emphasis upon academics. You want to continue the current pattern where colleges use black males for sports and then throw them back into society without an education. You and the current system of major athletics are the real racists. They continue to use young black males and show no concern for their financial future.
and the reasons i put werent excuses those are facts. are they the only reason...no but you cant disreguard them like theres no way that can be a reason in some cases. if you gonna do a study you have to accept all the reasons. some reasons are that players dont make the most of what they have. other reasons are there family cant afford to continue college after there bball years are up. other reasons are they find good jobs without needing to graduate. those arent excuses those are reasons. theres a big difference. im still wondering why you havent made a post as to why the percentage of white guys in the nba are so low
Quincey, unfortunately this discussion is above your level of comprehension. It has nothing to do with the percentage of white players in the NBA. This is a discussion about a university system that continues to ignore the pathetic graduation rate of young black men, but has no shame in using those same young men to win basketball games. As I stated above, those institutions that do such, and their head coaches, are perpetuating a racist system in modern day America.
Thank goodness for schools like Georgetown, Xavier, Western Kentucky, and Indiana when Bobby Knight was coach. They create a culture where education is number one. If you don't study and stay on pace to graduate, you don't play. There is no reason on earth why we can't make this the rule and not the exception.
But we can only do that if people like you stop making excuses and demand that we change the culture. Let's make education and basketball at least equal in our list of priorities.
I give Stanford love because they hold even elite ahtletes to high academic standards. One of the main reasons trent johnson left stanford for lsu was because he had trouble recruting at stanford. I remember when i was in highschool, there were two local 5 star athletes from my area, one a running back named lorenzo booker who went to florida state and some girl basketball player i don't remeber, and they were laughing at how when they talked to stanford about going there, stanford was talking about tests they would have to pass to get accepted. They were like, we can go to any college in the country and you are talking to us about tests?
But reality there lots of people in general who don't take school seriously. I don't know why we should hold athletes to any higher of a standard. I just would like to see more realize that an education can really help out in life and take classes more seriously. But it's hard, lots of people including myself dont know what they want to do out of hischool. It takes many people years to figure that out, and by then, many athletes are already in their final years of scholarship and they don't have the money, desire or guidance to continue afterwards. Some just get solid jobs that don't require a degree and that's fine as well.
^^agreed...thats why i was happy that my nephew went there. not just because of his basketball ability , but because he was smart enough to even get in there. they have harder prereq's then havard, which suprised me
also agreed how its basketball players in general. much better then trying to call out a specific race
Lorenzo Booker was a high school football phenom. I thought he'd have a college career similar to the 1 Reggie Bush had, but he of course wasn't that good. He had a decent career at FSU, but not quite up to the level that he was recruited. That was interesting LLPerez. Stanford must be tough if you have to take tests even though your one of the top 3 recruits in the nation at your sport lol.
it is. my nephew had to wait a month before they would admit him. and he is ranked 2nd in his class and has a 3.96 gpa and a act score of 32 which equals to around 2100 ON THE SAT
the fact is you can be black and well educated
black does not equal stupid, but if you re black and POOR
chances are you go to a poor inner city school and your role models are not telling you to go to college and you know of easier ways to make money
lower-class players dont usually "get 3.96 gpa and a act score of 32"
Im assuming your nephew isnt lower class, I would guess he's middle-class different background
different class=different perspective on life, different social crowd, different culture
hmmm i cant agre with that because he actually is in the upper class bracket
so basically he's not Poor and so he probably could afford tutors and knew where his next meal was coming from and had a stable family environment
DESPITE that you still dont agree?
well good 4 you, good 4 you
he could afford tutors but he never had them because the family kept on him about studyign and he was just natrually smart, picked up things easily
by the way i ment to put i cant agree with you more..lol..my bad
One thing we're not taking into account is many college athletes aren't educationally equipped to be successful in college. You may ask why, it is because they come from high schools that are structurally dilapidated, overcrowded classrooms, and textbooks that are many years outdated. I can't blame a college athlete no matter what race for being unsuccessful in there academics if they come from that type of education situation. Now if it is someone who doesn't suffer from any of those deficiencies in their respective high school then it is just them being lazy. Yes, you can be a lazy student in the inner city as well as coming from a bad high school, but with a bad high school already puts the student well behind peers who are living where the grass is greener.
What rtbt had to say about women's graduation rates being much higher. They're not nearly as delusional as men who believe they will make the NBA and make lots of money. The WNBA pays sh*t compared to the nba, and while women playing in europe get more than the wnba it is still not comparable to there male counterparts, so they are cognizant that they have obtain there degree before they leave school.
i forgot about that reason as well knicksfan
Yeah I am currently taking a sociology course that talks about this stuff, so I have gained something from the course. I mean at first I wouldn't have said things like that, but gaining more knowledge I have a tough time blaming the individual.
Not to make your nephew an example, but from where he is from if he did bad in school out of laziness (no kid in my mind is dumb, maybe not the smartest, but not dumb) then it would be all on himself because he comes from a school that is structurally fine, normal class sizes, and current textbooks. Take a kid w/o that you can't blame him because his family does not come from wealth.
I assume that rtbt is a well-educated individual and so he
knew all this so my question is
why did he post this in the first place?!
Is he blaming the coaches who allow this to go on,
societ for allowing people to be poor and be so desperate for hoops dream or what?
what was the point of all this, I mean he didnt give us any follow up to his NPR excerpt and I want the transcript now come to think of it bcuz NPR
usually doesnt just spit out random stats like that without following up
Rbt, I compeletly agree with your comments... Having a chance to get B.A. for free is a golden opportunity..
i asked the same thing don. but according to him im not thinking clearly and not thinking logical. and emotional. really?...i mean i am black and this was a post that had zero to do with this fourm putting up something negitive about black people and coming from a guy who has been known to always defend whites when someone compares a white player to another white player or when someone says a white player is overrated. a person who goes on a rant defending white players when theres nothing to defend them for but thinks its out of line for being emotional about this post
billyk, it is great for them to have a free education in order to get a college degree. Though, a lot of these kids aren't educationally equipped to take college courses so end up being placed in classes that are easy that allow them to stay eligible and once they exhaust their eligibility they may or may not have a degree, if they do it is in something that can't get them a job and if the NBA doesn't work out then things don't look bright for them.
the way is see it, the kids benefit from college even if they take fake classes and dont get a degree. School and any sort of higher education is good for expanding your horizons and general inteligence about things. I cant really blame the schools for not pushing these kids harder, how many people are tuning into and paying money to watch the IVY leauge games? If the kids can make the school money and the kids dont want to take education too serioously, then what can we do about it? Unless we all boy cott the bg schools and start watching and cheering for schools with high graduation rates, then we are being hypocrites. Its up to parents to push their kids more then anyone else.
and i actually think about where my nephew would be as far as grades if he would have grown up where i grew up at and the school and influences i had to deal with from drug dealers to killers to kids that just liked getting in trouble. each time i think about it i thank god he never had to deal with all of that
so you're agreeing with what I was saying then, right? I mean I don't think people understand how far a safe environment goes.
yep i agree
In order for ball players from the inner-cities to succeed it takes the right person to motivate them, and show that while it is great to shoot for the pros, they need an education because without an education you're nothing in this world. I mean I know Quincey mentioned he has/knows some friends/people who got jobs from there parents w/o graduating from college, but that does not promote hard work or anything, it promotes unnecessary entitlement. My goal in life is to be a teacher in the inner city and coach basketball sending as many players off to college as well as helping them graduate. I know it may sound heartwarming, but it is what I actually want to do, I am sick of what people are saying about these kids, and I want to prove to the students/players I teach/coach that they can be great like everyone else.