What I think on the Wall/Turner issue.
Dude, I wasn't 7-9.
Stating Facts my man. He COULD NOT get past the sweet 16 when the NCAA was going through a weak point. Am I wrong?
ummm iggy you cant compare wall'sleader ship not being questioned now...hes in college not the nba. no one questions james andersons scoring ability in college either but people question guys scoring in the nba. does that make anderson a better scorer then those guys in the nba?..no because anderson is doing it against college guys not nba guys. not comparable. just because someone does it in college doesnt mean they will be able to do it in the nba. thats like me saying psyco t is a better scorer then say hasleem last year because hes doing it in college.
not getting past the sweet 16 has what exactly to do with a player'sability?..that has more to do with a teams ability not a players...common sense
Leadership is leadership. Either your a leader or your not. People question whether a skill can translate because of different factors. It's either your a leader or your not. It has nothing to do with what level you play at.
sop is ben wallace overrated because he couldnt get a scholarship to a high division one team?..beasley,durant arent as good because there team couldnt get to the final four?...so a players ability is based on how far they take there college team now?
Yea but you cannot lead your team...excuse me
You as a potential TOP 5 draft pick cannot lead your teams to more then 2 WINS? You said he was clutch in college....probably those regular season games but not when it was all on the line in the NCAA tournament.
sorry but thats no true iggy. ive had plenty of players on my aau team and highschool who were leaders but werent leaders when they got to college. and a couple who were leaders on my college team that werent leaders when they played pro
The fact that he can play the 1-2-3 makes him that much more valuable than Cousins or Wall who play one position AND it is a position where Minnesota and NJ are solid at.....in fact it is the only two places where neither team really needs a player at all....
so was durant also overrated as a college player?
You had plenty of leaders on your AAU team....but you can't have plenty of leaders on a team. Something has to give. And they can't be true leaders if their leadership doesn't translate.
i dont think tim duncan got past the sweet 16 either...does tht make him overrated as a college player as well?
james anderson must be overrated college players as well
aminu..overrated as well?..none of those guys even made it to the sweet 16 this year
i played aau since 6th grade.every year we had a different leader not one team with a bunch of leaders
Sweet 16= GOAT
Wall= transition game
Turner= halfcourt slow down game
just my opinion :-P
I never said that they weren't clutch.
Put those guys in 2003 when alot of players left HS for the NBA? They would get past the sweet sixteen
there are a couple of leaders overseas who were leaders in college. the one that comes to mind is mateen clevees. theres not many college leaders who were more of a leader then he was. wall isnt on his level as a leader but cleeves wasnt the leader of a coupel of euro teams he played on or the sac kings. j.j reddick was the leader of the duke team he played one( coach k called him there leader and i cant say i argue with that) but i wouldnt call him the leader of the magic.
Knicksboy35 youre arguement makes zero sense. so if uk loses wall shouldnt go number one because he didnt get past the sweek 16?..monroe shouldnt go top 5 either huh?.
seriouslyyou cant believe a player is overrated just because they cant lead there team past the sweet 16
then you say that season was weak? lol...man if you are really the real guys who got booted then youre basketball knowldge has really suffered since you been gone.
and that guy said he was 15 at the time and the 2003-2004 season was 6 years ago
I can guarantee you Mateen Cleaves is a good leader overseas. He was a good leader in the NBA for his short time, even though he was one of the least talented players in the NBA. You don't even necessarily have to be the best player on your team to be a leader. That's why it translates so much easier than most other traits and skills.
Who said I rate players by how there leaders in college?
Come on Quincey- Get it together man, you're slipping.
i was just kidding with john wall being the sf for gs. i like evan turner alot. i like devin harris alot. but if john wall is a mini lebron, or like d rose he has to be the pick. harris wasnt overrated in college but i kind of think he is now. he has avoided major injury but has had alot of little injuries and subtract last year he has had a very average career. and i think harris is a good leader but he just isnt that guy like john wall could be. no truly great leader lets their team be one of the worst teams ever. and you can only be as good a leader as your game lets u. ex. tim tebow is a leader but if he is third string qb will he be a leader? you have to produce to lead and harris doesnt produce enough. and as far as evan turner, the guy is great but i think he will play more of a jeff green role in the nba(note im not comparing their games only their roles) kind of a second option guy that does everything ala manu ginobili. and thats good but only if you have that true number one guy. wall looks like a sure fire number 1 guy. and u dont pass that up if u win the lotto. and i think we talk about the nets and the number one pick so much because we feel bad for them. a team that bad should just get the pick and have the lotto for the next 13 picks.
the leaders thing is directed at iggy knicks...youre comment about harris not taking his team past the sweet 16 means hes overrated makes no sense. there are plenty of guys who havent taken there teams past the sweet 16 so by youre logic they must have been overrated
and iggy i have friends who played with cleeves overseas and will tell you the leaders of his team were all euro guys so youre guarantee would be wrong. it doesnt always trasnlate. theres a chance that it can but its not a lock
How is it that you and your friends always end up out of some coincidence talking about the same stuff that we talk about on here? You and your friends really just had a conversation about whether Mateen Cleaves was the leader of his team overseas? Really?
theres a thing called a cell phone. i text people or yahoo chat when i chat with my friends. i could have easily just said this from the start or this post but none of my friends who have played were on yahoo or answered any of my text. i always text other peopel who have played ball who im cool with for a second opnion. i dont just go with what i think i like to see it from a different point of view...so thats how
theres many times ive talked on here and texted some friends or yahoo messaged some friends and they came back with a answer different from mine and ive said so..case in point
rondo over rose...most of them said rose
cousins isnt that good- most said they thought he was
and ive said this but for some reason you only point out or remember when they agree with me. selective memory maybe
Please Quincey: Oh Smart One...
When have I said that I judged NBA players based on thier college careers? Read What I said in my original post....
you just said harris was overrated because he couldnt lead his team past the sweet 16. that means if a player cant lead there team past the sweet 16 then they must be overrated...you used his team success as a measurement of him being overrated. if you use it for him then obviously you have to use that standard for other players who didnt lead there team past the sweet 16 or it would show you are just looking for a excuse to say he's overrated
He was overrated back then IMO.
Never got past the sweet 16 even though the NCAA was going through a weak point with players.
I said I didn't believe Harris was a leader in college. He was overrated to me because in a time where he the NCAA lost alot of talent with the HS jump- he could not lead his team to 3 wins? IMO, that's kinda weak.
I never said anything about his NBA game- So Eat It.
yeah you might wanna read the post...when did i even talk to you about his nba game?..if im not mistaken i wasnt talking to iggy....eat it..lol..really. you were a good what 9 10 when harris played in college and was probably at school or in bed during most of his games so excuse me if im not taking youre opinion about him beng overrated too seriously. harris was a beast in college point blank. thats not even a discussion
and now im curious.... if a highschool all american cant lead his team to a state title or the final 4 of his hs tournament does that make him overrated since the talent level is alot weaker there then in the ncaa tournamanet?
harris was a beast in college point blank.
A beast who couldn't lead his team to 3 wins in the NCAA Tournament during a weak point in College Basketball.
What does HS matter?
Devin Harris couldn't lead his team to wins in the NCAA Tournament. He got at the most, 2 wins per year. I don't care about HS but he couldn't win more then 3 games during a point where the NCAA was weak?
that has nothing to do with individual talent and alot to do with his teamnot being great genius. its a team game. no matter how good you are if you face a better team then you can be beat. thats common sense.and college basketball was not weak that year what are you talking about?????...because guys werent superstars in that draft you think it was weak?..a college season in which you were still in elementry school..lol..really
how you figure the ncaa was weak?...and dont give me the " that draft class wasnt that good " since we are talking about what a player did in college then and not in the nba
and i brought up hs because youre point is harris was overrated because he couldnt lead his team past the sweet 16 in a year you say college basketball was weak.
so if a all american cant lead his hs team past the same point in his his season against lesser competition then doesnt that mean that player is also overrated as a highschooler?
according to youre logic that would be yes
you just showed me you was not reading what I wrote.
Your calling him clutch. He didn't lead his team to 3 wins.
Doesn't matter to me. It's because you like Devin Harris. If this was a player you disliked, you would have used some stupid &$#%#&@! as a reason not to like him. I don't care.
The fact still remains: Devin Harris could not lead his team to the Elite Eight.
so wait...if a player doesnt lead his team past the sweet 16 ..he isnt clutch?...being clutch doesnt mean you can lead youre team ALL the time to wins. so that means every player who couldnt lead there team to a elight 8 that year was overrated?
so according to you being clutch doesnt have anythign to do with the player but it has to do with how far you can lead youre team. doesnt matter if you dont have a real good team or a team out of say the wcc because if you cant lead youre team past the sweet 16 that year then you are overrated and you arent clutch.....do you know how dumb that sounds
I meant overrated. He wasn't that good IMO. The Fact still remains
Devin Harris could not lead his team to the Elite Eight.
I'm done. I know your going to make a completely new post about this so do your thing.
so because he couldnt lead his team to the elight 8 he was overrated...lol...you do know youre probably the only person in the whole world who has that opinion. i hate to say peopels opinions are wrong but youre is wrong..lol...go look at the other teams and players who didnt get past the sweet 16 that year. guess they were all overrated as well. yeah i cant rspong to you any more..you werent even old enough to even know much about basketball on top of not even being good enough to play hs basketball now so youre opinion holds zero weight
So you're better then me because I don't play HS basketball?
Alright man, I play basketball. By the time I got to 10th grade- I stopped playing ball because of my grades. That's all. I'm not saying I could have gotten a D1 ride but I could handle my own on the court homeboy. I played with some of the toughest dudes. Growing up in Brooklyn, you couldn't get on the court if your trash- I played. Once I moved upstate, my grades didn't allow me to play. Could have been on a very good team this year but torn ligaments in my ankle. Sorry man.
If you made yourself feel better because you play ball overseas and I don't, hope you got what you wanted. Now I see what you truly think, you think your cool because you play ball overseas and You come on the site so you can give us your lame scouting reports on your " nephew" and other players in the DC area. It's all good. Remind me everytime you make a post to call you a LOSER from now on.
Have a good day :)
Gimme a break, If your the Nets and you get the number one pick you take Wall and trade harris without hesitating...period....Are we REALLY arguing who will be better between Harris and Wall? Harris has been in the league for 5 yeears? he has been an allstar and what else? wall will be an all star in his second year and a superstar by his third...I agree with Igoudala on everything...harris more of a leader than Wall? Harris more clutch? Yea, sure..
Wuincey, you play overseas? They must have a TON of games and practices where you play
John Wall is a great talent, but here EVERYBODY goes falling in love with potential. POTENTIAL got the HAWKS a NOW developing SF in MARVIN WILLIAMS over two LEGIT STUD PGs (CHRIS PAUL AND DERON WILLIAMS) that they desperately needed. YES!! JOHN WALL IS GONNA BE A GREAT NBA PLAYER, BUT TO BLANTANTLY DISRESPECT DEVIN HARRIS AND QUESTIONING HIS ABILITIES AND LEADERSHIP IS A DAMN SHAME. CHECK HIS CREDENTAILS...WHY IS IT A QUESTION FROM FANS THAT HE WAS TRADED FOR JASON KIDD (HALL OF FAME PG)? BECAUSE THE GUY IS DAMN GOOD!!! I can recall TONY PARKER SAYING HE WAS GLAD DALLAS TRADED HIM TO NEW JERSEY BECAUSE HE WAS TIRED OF FACING SOMEONE JUST AS QUICK AS HIM ON THE FLOOR. I say NEW JERSEY just drafts TURNER or see how free agency pans out. BASICALLY, PEOPLE SAYING WALL IS BETTER THAN HARRIS...PRETTY MCUH RIGHT?!
thank you.. too many peopel try there best to discredit one players ability just because they are a fan of anothers. anyone who watched harris in college saw how good he was and far from overrated. anyone who watches him when he's healthy sees he's a allstar talent.
and no there is no real arguement now of who is better or will be better because wall hasnt played one game in the nba yet. no one knows the future so no one can say if he WILL be better or WONT be better.. the only thing we can say is ow good they are now and we cant even say how good wall is in the nba now because hes not there yet