What I think on the Wall/Turner issue.
Many people think that Turner will be the Nets pick if they win the lottery. I think not however. Here is why: #1 Yes, they have Harris, but Wall is a definite upgrade from him, and he can play the 2 guard. The nets can also trade Harris for a SG or a SF.There are plenty of options. #2 Some people have though that the Nets would trade the pick and take Turner. This is dumbest idea yet. When you win the lottery, you do not trade the pick. That's like willing to trade a trophy when you have won it. Accept your reward and take the best guy available with the most talent. Which we all know is Wall. #3 We have all seen the effects of taking a need over pure talent. Just look at the 2009 and 2007 draft for a sure example. In 2007, Durant was clearley the best pick, but the decided to fill a need and drafted Oden. He is now injured way too often, and Durant is a commodity that everyones sees as the can't miss prospect, yet the Blazers passed on him. Their reward: a Center that never plays much during the season thanks to injuries. The clear choice was Durant. The same happened to the Clippers in 2009 with Griffin. He filled a need yet he too got injured. Evans was the better choice as we all can see with him running away with ROY honers. They suffered too, although it is still to premature to tell if this team will suffer with Griffin instead of Tyreke even though Tyreke is defintely more talented, and is better suited for the #1 pick.
Wall is the clear choice, because of these 3 reasons.
Definite upgrade? So you're definite the guy who hasn't played a game in the NBA is better then a past allstar and six year veteran?
At no point did anyone believe Evans was a better prospect then Griffin, and in '07 most saw Durant and Oden having equal potential...Portland obviously didn't know Oden would repeatedly have knee issues and that Durant would eventually turn into a 30ppg guy.
Oden wasn't just drafted on need, the guy is a 7'2 defensive monster. He just got hurt.
And nobody knew Tyreke was going to be this good man. Blake is hurt, it happens, I still think he will be an absolute beast in the league and the Clippers will have zero regrets.
Those are my thoughts.
I agree. I think the Nets will take Wall and trade Harris. That's just how I see it. Harris was overrated to me from the jump, and I think that the Nets realize that Harris isn't a winning PG even though he is good. I don't think that most would like this scenario because of the risk, but I'm just speaking on what I think the Nets will do if they get the 1st pick based on some of what I've seen from the team and some of what I've seen/heard in the media. I think Wall will be a better pro than Devin Harris though, so I don't really mind this at all.
that the Nets probably won't win the lottery.....just cuz they are extra bad doesn't mean they're any less likely to win it than the last billion teams with the worst record.....
fastdan i agree... a definate up grade. that would mean wall will be a allstar in year one and put up better numbers then harris last year when he wasnt injured. not sure where he's getting wall can play shooting guard thing from. anyone notice a theme with som eof the fans on here.... i THINK wall will be better. you dont trade a talent like harris just because you think wall is better. thats how people lose job's. yeah it can work out that he is better but just to be sure it makes much better sense to keep both and see how it works unless you can get a player of equal value for harris which is very doubtful
they should be targeting Evan Turner right now and do whatever it takes to get him......
They can get some players in free agency that are better than Harris. If they trade Harris and draft Wall, while getting a guy(s) in free agency that are of at least as much worth as Harris or more. The Nets have a good deal of stuff going for them in terms of money and cap.
You can get value for Harris, but I think Wall is more valuable than Harris is so you take him if you get the pick..
Well I think they go with John Wall as taking him is the most favourable option. They should keep harris for at least some of the season, trade him at the deadline if you feel so inclined. Why trade harris in the off-season and risk wall having serious injury afterwards ala Oden and Griffin. Trading the pick just isnt worth it as everyone is going to play hardball and in the end they will get less than equal value for it. That being said i really wouldnt mind if they traded down slightly and drafted derrick favors or one of the other really good 4s this year as it is their only really glaring need. They have CDR and Terrance Williams at the wings, say whatever you want about harris he is still an all star point guard, and they have Lopez at C. Naturally this is all with the presumption that they recieve the #1 pick.
As for the Nets being able to get a better player than harris in this off-season. My thoughts on this are, the Nets are still in the running for the worst season in league history. What free agent wants to join that impressive squad? Money and cap space are nice but if nobody wants to play there its really more or less pointless to have. The only really good free agent i can see going there is Amare.
That being said I actually do like some of the pieces that the Nets have and they are in a very interesting position this off season, it just bothers me that everyone is diving headfirst into this get rid of harris as quickly as possible if we get john wall mindset.
I'm not worried about them in the least.....Harris as whatever, trade piece.....high pick to take likely another franchise player, or also a trade piece.....franchise center.....free agent loot to lure somebody to play in a brand new stadium in New York City.....can't imagine they will be able to twist someones arm to do that......The nets are going to be seriously dangerous and soon.....Don't forget they still aren't out of the question about getting Lebron.....If I was Lebron that's where I would wanna play....John Wall/Evan Turner, Brook Lopez, Devin Harris, and Lebron???? can anyone say domination....
so there are other players with allstar talent like harris out there iggy?...havent i been missing something?...everything you saying about wall is hoping what he will become. not knowing if he will get injured like a oden or just doesnt pan out early. a smart owner doesnt trade a sure thing for a maybe without making sure that maybe is worth it or cant work with the sure thing.
especially since turner has great potential as well. we all know what harris CAN do when he is healthy. theres no maybe or might about that. add turner to the mix with lopez and a free agent and things look pretty good
The nets have a 75% chance to NOT win the lottery...who remembers this time last year when everyday there was a new thread about how if Griffin/Thompson/Hawes front court could function together.
If NJ does win the lottery they will probably shop the pick and harris and choose whichever scenario gives them the better team, because it's pretty obvious that two poor shooting/slashing/ball dominate point guards are not going to equal wins.
If they get someone to offer great value for harris, they will take it, and if someone is going to overpay for wall, they'll trade the pick.
doubt very very very seriously that they shop the first pick... that doesnt happen
Lebron James, Amare Stoudemire, Carlos Boozer, and the rest of the elite players in the free agent class are better than Devin Harris. Devin Harris had 1 All-Star season and the rest of the elite guys have all been to multiple All-Star games, so yes, they are other players that are better than him.
What I'm saying is that if they get John Wall and get a free agent(s), which I'm sure they will, they will be able to trade Devin Harris and not have a bunch of problems. Harris isn't exactly irreplaceable. It depends on if they get the 1st pick though. I can see them keeping Harris for a part of the season, but even he seem to know that if they get the 1st pick he's on his way out.
they could even trade Harris for future first rounders really....that would probably be the smart thing to do.....
I could say this as the best situation for Brooklyn if they get the first pick.....if they can trade the pick inside the top 3 or 4, then they can do that for a future first rounder....odds are whoever it is won't be that good and it will be a lottery pick next year.....then they will have the ability to make just a squad in the next 2 years........their are going to be teams (Indiana comes to mind) that really want John Wall.....I'm sure the Warriors would also love to have him....pretty much anyone outside the Nets and Timberwolves.....so since their are many awesome players at the top of this draft, they might as well get one of them and another 1st rounder....
You know, its funny how people just get blinded by the draft and fall in love with the draft and its lure. (You think the bulls don't regret trading their former rookie of the year in Elton Brand for the #2 pick in Tyson Chandler, who was suppose to be one of the pillars of the next "twin towers." Not saying Wall is Chandler, but thats always a possibility when you trade proven guys. The Bulls til this day are trying to find a legit post player.) Devin Harris, when healthy, is an all star level guard in this league. How can you say Wall is better than him at this stage and has more value. I'm not saying Wall won't be good or won't even be an all star, but to just get rid of a proven player, who probably just in his prime yet in Harris, is comical. If you sell me on the idea that they haven't done much winning with Harris at the helm and that you might as well take Wall, trade him and rebuild from scratch since you're bad anyway, then I can accept that argument. But the notion that a guy who hasn't touched an NBA court is better than NBA vets who's proven in this league is just too much for me. And like I said in another post, Wall's game is eerily similar to Harris', and if you replace them, I don't know how much more winning the Nets really do.
I think that you should trade Harris only if you'll get another proven player at a position of need.
if anyone wins the lotto they need to take john wall. if the nets get him, play him at the 2 and see how it works. the nets cant get any worse with playing john wall and devin harris.
There is 75%chance the Nets won't won the first pick,just saying
to take John Wall if you win the lottery, what if you're a team like the Warriors, TWolves, New Orleans, Houston, etc, who already have a franchise PG, and you win the lottery? IMO Evan Turner can be justified as a #1 pick as well, it depends on what team wins the lottery. If my Warriors get it (yea right) i'd want Evan Turner over John Wall because we have Stephen Curry/Monta Ellis
exactly..you dont trade him without getting equal value nor without seeing how wall does first. which is what reports are saying out of jersey if they do get wall. im glad some of ya'll arent gm's ya'll would trade a proven player just because you draft a potential good player. then if wall got hurt like blake or oden and the season sucked again guess who would be getting fired. some people just dont think
I agree that Turner could go first as well. I don't see how you can define 'equal value' for a trade if you drafted Wall. What would equal value be for a guy who hasn't played yet?
look i agree that it seems crazy to draft a point guard if you have one u believe in but out of all those teams only new orleans has a true stud point guard in chris paul. gs and minny have rookie pg who may or may not be franchise talents(i dont think flynn is and curry looks good and rubio, well who knows with him). im saying new orleans could use him at the 2(in my mind he is like a dwade), so could minny and gs and new jersey. only golden state is a question but we all know john wall could play sf in that system, lol. but seriously even if i was gs i would think about draftin john wall and trading monta or bringing him off the bench( this is assuming wall is drafted and looks like he can be a great player, and im not sayin trade monta right away, im saying that play all 3 guys and if john wall looks like a star trade monta mid season or in the off season next year). i think, assuming john wall will be as good as advertised, that a backcourt of stephen curry and john wall would be lethal. it wouldnt be the best defensive backcourt but it wouldnt be the worst because john wall can guard twos enough and curry can guard pgs well enough. and with such a young backcourt u can wait a year to see how they play together(gs isnt a playoff team with just john wall and what they have now). so in conclusion, in my opinion, every lotto team could use john wall somehow. thats all teams like new jersey, gs, minny, philly, houston, new orleans, etc.
if you have johnwall as youre sf you are gonna be in trouble big time. yeah it can work in gs but they will still be a bad team. they would get hammered by any of the top playoff teams. it would be alot easier for melo,bron, or any of the top teams sf then it would be for wall to check them. actually the thought isnt even reality thats more of a video game thought. not really a good idea for him to be a sg as well to be honest. the undersized sg doesnt seem to work if you tryna compete for a title. cp3 already said if they get the top pick he wants turner so my guess would be thats who they would draft
y do pll have the nets as the automatic 1st pick, r pll forgetting thts its a lottery. turner has more skill than wall, but wall has more valubility. heres y: 1) hes a PG 2.) he has more potential 3.) hes only a freshmen 4.) way more athletic.
john wall is to good to pass up, not sayin turner is not great, but passin up on wall is like wantin d-will instead of cp3. cp3 is better no matter wat
no one is saying they willhave the number one pick. everyone says if they get the pick. too some fans wall is too good to pass up but if you have watched or read comments made by news peopel who have talked to owners then you will know that wall isnt a lock for the number one pick. its not like lebron shaq duncan when they came out and everyone knew they were going number one. wall is a favorite but not a lock
Nobody thought evans should go over griffen. griffen was the sure fire 1 pick. Also the entire world thought the blazers should pick oden, don't act like you wouldn't have.
yeah we knew blake was going... i had durant going over oden so imnot sure who you addressed that too. i liked oden but i liked durant much much more. wasnt even close in my book and i said that over and over again before the draft. both were freshmen but durant straight dominated college. oden didnt have to go against future nba centers so i wasnt as sold on him
i gotta say as a nets fan ive been mulling this over since they went 0-18....yea i hear alot about john wall, how great of a pro hes gonna be, how hes a mini lebron all of this...i like the guy, think hes gonna be real good, but with all that talent on his team ive seen him put up lesser numbers than turner who is the main guy and he still gets the job done...with harris being hurt this year i think ppl forget how good he was last year, 21 and 7 as a pg and only 27 is damn near impossible to find....he gets to the hole at will....the one thing ill say about wall is he seems like a better leader than harris, but with turner your getting the same leadership abilities as wall...i see wall becoming a marbury type pg but i see turner becoming brandon roy, just a smooth all around talent for years to come where wall will be a flashy burn out type pg like francis and marbury
But the best comparison for John Wall is Derrick Rose......Mini-Lebron is pushin it....and if so that's what Rose is too....
im not sure how wall seems like a better leader. when harris was in college he was just as good of a leader as wall was. i really cant say a college guy is a better leader then a nba player with all star talent because the talent they are playing against is worlds apart
Wall is more vocal and seems to have more of a knack for the big play than Harris has ever had. I think he'll be a better leader than Devin Harris when it's all said and done. It doesn't really matter what level you play at to determine leadership.
thats not ture. harris was very vocal when he was with the badgers. he was a hell of a vocal leader on that team
and yeah it does matter. there are many leaders in college who werent leaders in the nba. there is a big deference when you play on different levels. thats like saying theres no difference from being a leader on a hs team compared to a college team
I don't think Harris was the leader Wall was, even though he is a leader. He's not the same leader as Wall. And yes there are players that were leaders, but if they weren't talented enough to be in the NBA and John Wall obviously is, where is the relevance in that. A leader is a leader no matter what level you play at.
i remember harris..he was the leader wall was easily..not sure if you remember but i remember very well.didnt know who he was at the time but id watch his games because he was very talented and knew how to motivate his team. he would get in players face and get them motivated or hyped
if you have watched harris in college i really cant understand how you can say he wasnt the leader wall was
Just like this. He wasn't the leader John Wall was. He's never been as clutch, vocal, or "take-charge" as Wall. That's one of Harris' main flaws right now too. I've heard and seen Harris be called too nonchalant on the court more than 1 time.
Wall is athletic he should be more assertive on defense.
his defense fuels his transition game.
Harris is the better shooter in the halfcourt game though
I wonder what the Nets will do come draft day?
he's never been as clutch or took over?..im pretty sure you never seen harris or dont remember him in college by that statement. that man used to take over games at will. its obvious you are going by harris in the nba and not in college because if you had seen him in college then you would clearly not be making those statements.
you make youre self look bad when you say things that are wayyy untrue ..go watch some tapes of harris in college and you will see how wrong you are. or read some articles about how nonclutch or not a leader he was
and harris took charge plenty of times in the nba last year when he wasnt hurt...why do you think he made the allstar team? i mean seriously
Everyone has taken over a few games and most have made a few clutch shots, but Wall is more of a leader than Devin Harris. It will come to head when Wall is in the NBA. He's already shown it in college plenty of times.
Religion: John Wall
I'm starting to lean to Evan Turner for number one.
The thought of someone who can play the 1-2 and 3 is pretty enticing. I also think his overall ability could be pretty scary. At 21, he has years left to reach that Joe Johnson ceiling.
I would love to see Turner as a Net because now, you have 2 point forwards in Turner and Williams. I believe Devin Harris should be looked upon to be dealt if they decide to take Turner. Maybe for a legit PF.
I dont think it matters if they dont get that free agent wing
this is actuallymy fault. i forgot that you were probably 8 years old when harris was in college and dont remember how clutch he was while in college. he didnt have more clutch plays because he didnt have as many close games as wall where he had to be clutch. but the games that were close he showed how clutch he was. i recall harris like it was yesterday because of how he killed my terps and how clutch he was and unstoppable he was. no one could guard him because he was skilled and fast as hell. i cant take youre arguement seriously because of this. if you ever watch a bunch of games in harris when he was in college then come back and we can continue this because right nowyoure not really prepared to talk about how clutch harris was in college
Can we not talk about Devin Harris being clutch in college? He was overrated back then IMO.
Never got past the sweet 16 even though the NCAA was going through a weak point with players.
deal harris if they get turner?..lol..man alot of ya'll guys are guys of the moment i see. just forget about how good harris is when he is healthy. seems like every young person i know has short term memory and just live in the moment. is just laughable like when a bunch of other young people on here were saying trade chris paul because of how well collins was playing
I wasn't 8 lol. But OK. I personally feel that Wall will be better than Harris and provide more leadership than Harris will. Harris' leadership has been questioned, but no one has ever thought to question Wall. As I said, we will see.
Knicksboy35- overrated back then?..yeah i just lost respect for youre basketball knowldge. let me guess you were proabably around 7-9 back then as well right?..so a player is overrate dif they never get past the sweet 16 in college?..man the leauge is full of overrated guys then
Fastest man with a basketball lol, guiness world record true story
Evan Turner, John Wall both are equal in my eyes.
one person creates mismatches with speed athleticism
one creates with big size and strength
who is better only time will tell, but age is on Wall's side I guess...
id be happy with wall or turner but i think they should go the turner rout and trade yi and douglas-roberts for a solid pf if they dont end up singing a stoudemire...i like roberts but he clearly doesnt wanna be a net and yi isnt showing an consistency and hes been the starter for the last 2 seasons