The one and done rule
Late last night I was listening to a video on espn with Andy Katz, Jim Boeheim, and Dick Vitale about the tournament expanding, but towards the end of it Dick Vitale mentioned how they have bigger concerns than expanding the tournament. The concern he mentioned was that the NCAA should sit down with the NBA, and get rid of the one and done rule and instead let players from high school jump if they choose, but if they choose to go to college they must say for 3 years. For those who don't know this is the rule for College Baseball. Dick Vitale said in almost these exact words "It's a joke the one and done rule. It is unfair to the John Walls who are only here to just satisfy the rule." I was shocked to hear Vitale say this because when watching NBA drafts he would always complain about GM's taking Foreign players over 3-4 year College players. Though, I agreed with what he said about college basketball sitting down with the NBA to work that out to be just like College Baseball. One thing I am starting to realize with this one and done rule is we're bringing in more talent and less talent is retiring. A logjam is starting to happen, and we see guys getting drafted that could be starting because they're very skilled and talented, but the guy starting ahead of him is also that way with more experience in the NBA. My point is that if you make guys stay 3 years in college if they don't chose to jump from high school then when they enter we'll see more guys NBA ready and the talent gets older and more players retire and more young talent comes in ready to play. I don't think playing college ball for 3 years will hurt a players skill unless a serious injury. It did not hurt Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Alonzo Mourning, Dikembe, Shaq all guys who played 3 or 4 years of college basketball, and the list goes on.
yeah but the jump straight to the nba from high school hurt a lot more than college didnt.... would kwame brown ever be the number one pick again?
Let me once again state my big complaint with the "One and Done" rule. It allows guys to audition for the NBA while while pretending to be students. It turns a school like Kentucky into an NBA minor league squad. I realize most people don't care about academics and focus solely upon basketball, but at the very least, they should be legitimate students.
In their first semester, "One and Done" players they take nothing but Phys Ed courses so they can stay eligible. In the spring semester they can take molecular biology and physics because it doesn't matter. As soon as the NCAA tournament ends, they can drop all of their classes.
So the first thing the NCAA needs to do is ensure that students attend full time in the spring semester and remain academically eligible or all of their wins will be reversed.
In addition, this is America where people should be free to choose their profession. If a high school senior has absolutely zero interest in college and wants to try out for the NBA, let him do it. He can apply for any other job he wants, why can't he apply to become a professional basketball player?
As for requiring 3 years of eligibility, I don't think that would pass a legal challenge.
Rtbt, great points. Though, college baseball requires 3 years of playing if you decide to go to college and there is nothing legally wrong with that because if a player does not want to go the college route they have the option to not go that way.
It did hurt more than college, but a guy who jumps straight from high school and does not succeed is less likely to get another contract (as in a big contract) to the guy who plays college ball for more than 1 year is more likely to have a longer career and make more money is professional earnings. We have to remember Lebron James is the exception, not the rule.
knicksfan7, your comments above are right on time. However, nobody is forcing anyone to go directly to the NBA. High school seniors should have the option to succeed or fail just like everyone else. If they can barely read and have no interest in college, what's the point of making them pretend to be a student for one year? Let them go directly to their chosen profession and start earning the big money right away.
I would bet that 99.8% of all high school seniors will opt for college.
I agree about 99.8% of high school seniors opting for college, especially if it is for free. I have no problem with what Vitale said it is good for other reasons in areas you brought up. 1) Academics: It would force the kids who do go to college to actually be students and take courses towards a degree, it would non of this semi-pro teams. Guys like Calipari would have to get players who actually want to play college ball and have skill. 2) More NBA Ready Talent: This is huge for GMs it allows them to keep there jobs because they will be more likely to draft a player who is ready to contribute to there team right away. 3) Makes for a better college game: Fans hate to see guys leave after a year when they played so exciting, and get to enjoy a player for a few years. There is nothing wrong about being in college longer than a year, a person's body grows until they're 21 so staying in college for 3 years should not be seen as a negative when drafting they still have upside at 21 because now they're getting used to there body that is fully developed.
Why should talented player suffer because Gm's dont do their job. If a player is not ready to play then dont draft him that way he has to go overseas, college, or d league.
The NCAA is so ass backwards that will never happen....When the NBA made this rule (which was strictly a money play by Sadaam Stern btw) the NCAA winked at him with a smile b/c they get to see the 5 or 10 best HS recruits again, even if it be for just one year.....now they are crying foul when Derrick Rose treats the SAT like a night at the Improv....I wish he would have asked me to take it for him.....I would have totally done it....
For the NBA to sit and act like they are looking out for these kids best interest is the funniest joke this side of "that's what she said".......they just don't want to pay the Tyson Chandlers and Dorell Wrights of the world to sit on the bench....big thumbs down to the NBA AND NCAA for their wink and a nod deal on this one.....and props to Brandon Jennings and Jeremy Tyler for stickin it to the man.....
Unfortunately that is true the NCAA is so backwards. Brandon Jennings has stuck it to the man, Jeremy Tyler needs to make it to the NBA first and him quitting the team is not a good sign for him getting drafted. He needs to get on another pro team and play to show scouts again he can play professionally.
Four college freshmen were drafted in 2009, twelve in 2008, and eight in 2007.
How many will there be this year? Ten, and that includes a guy like Tommy Mason-Griffin who -if he has any adviser worth his salt- is entering the professional ranks knowing it is essentially a transfer from one feeder system to another. As opposed to how many 5-star kids who thought they would be in the NBA after high school but got as harsh dose of reality once they started college? Where does Katz, Boeheim, and Vitale stand on a guy like Lance Stephenson coming out and saying he realizes he isn't ready. Where is the credit? What about John Henson, Kenny Boynton, Mason Plumlee, Tiny Gallon, Mouphtaou Yarou, Ater Majok, Wally Judge and Jordan Hamilton? How many of those guys would have been pegged as prep-to-pro or at most one-year guys? What about Jeremy Tyler actually having to play against men before entering the best professional league in the world? Someone has to ask these people the hard questions, because this rule has saved far more young men from making bad decisions than it has hurt. It has elevated the quality of play in the NBA, because no longer are teams taking 18-year olds who have never faced bigger, stronger, and more athletic players in their lives. It has also dramatically helped the college game. The University of Kentucky is going to make more money this year off Wall, Cousins, and Bledsoe. It is going to boost applications and donations. What is the harm to Kentucky? I must be missing something, because I'm pretty sure the graduation rate at that university isn't 100 percent. At the University of Michigan (a really well-regarded state school) the six-year graduation rate is around 85 percent. Is there a big investigation into the thousands of students who only go to that school, and every other big university, to party only to end up failing to graduate? No, only the basketball players who usually end up making more than $1 million before they are 30 playing professional basketball somewhere in the world who get questioned. And of course, the fact that the personal finances of Katz, Vitale, and Boeheim being tied to the college game does not skew their opinion on the rule at all.
couldn't agree more....when a team hires Michael Jordan to pick their players and he is too busy making appearances at his restaurant and at Harrahs than out watching players, then that team deserves to suck......its no reason to penalize guys like John Wall and Derrick Rose....
didnt dick vitale love the one year of college rule when they started it?
BothTeamsPlayedHard, one area where I completely agree with you is the fact that basketball, both college and the NBA, benefit several ways from this rule. However, if you care about academics, then it's a terrible rule. As I mentioned above, I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people only care about basketball. You appear to be one of them.
However, from my perspective, "One and Done" players are perpetrating a fraud because they aren't legitimate students. I fully realize most people don't care about the academic fraud, but I do. If the University of Kentucky makes a fortune off of their "One and Done" players as a quasi NBA franchise, that's their choice. I don't like it but those are the current rules.
If the NCAA would simply ensure that "One and Done" players complete all of their classes during the spring semester and remain academically eligible, I could live with it.
By the way, Cornell vs Kentucky in the NCAA tournament doesn't get any better. It's one of the greatest matches of academic evil vs good in the history of the tournament. I don't expect it to happen, but if Cornell can pull off the miracle, I would temporarily be at a loss of words [LOL].
even if he did love it at first props to Dickie V. for recognizing his mistake....I liked it at first just cuz I was excited just cuz I like the college game better than the NBA and the stars were comin back for a year....and it was easier to scout for the draft....now I realize all the bs that comes along with it and I can say that it is wrong...
i agree with vitale. go pro outta HS or stay in school. idk if 3 yrs will work tho because that's a "long time" in the minds of kids who THINK they are NBA. i think that would make a lot of them jump str8 to the pros becuz a) they (wrongly) think they are ready and b) they fig 2-4 yrs of nba money if better than 3 yrs of being a "broke" college student.
but maybe the combination of vitale's idea AND the fact that rookie contracts are really only guaranteed for the 1st 2 yrs (paging mr joe alexander) will be enuff to scare the borderline/not ready kids into going to school.
and i FULLY agree with any of the guys above me who took shots at nba gm's. these guys are a$$clownz when it comes to the draft. i mean who picks kwame brown #1? really?!?!?!
he has to go too....I praise him for all the great things he did for the game in the 80s and 90s but now he just thinks his poop smells like roses....he has become an elitist and it rubs the complete wrong way....
rtbt, there are guys who are in college for four years and never write a paper. From football players to frat boys, it happens. I don't hear the problems with the systematic abuse of higher education at state funded institutions with anyone but basketball players, and it bothers me.
Also, how many of these one-and-done guys weren't taking any classes towards graduation? I have read that Greg Oden is continuing to take college classes. I have read about several early entrants who return to their college in the offseason to train and take summer courses. Does anyone talk about the social benefits that the one-and-done players get when they spend a year learning to glad hand boosters and alums? Those same boosters and alums are season ticket holders for NBA teams, and that is a big part of the marketing job that comes with being an NBA player. They learn to socialize with people from different socio-economic, racial, ethnic, and religious groups. Is this really about Derrick Rose? He is going to make hundreds of millions of dollars in his career. It really wouldn't have made any difference if he went the route of KG or Brandon Jennings (neither of whom qualified to play in college) but by going to Memphis he made that university millions of dollars. So what is the greater crime? Having a system that fails by not properly preparing guys like Stephenson to work on their craft for their career, or have Derrick Rose spend a year at the University of Memphis when he might not go to class after the Final Four because he has to work out to get ready to sign a $30 million contract as the top pick in the draft? For me, it is a no brainer. Nothing is going to be perfect, but the abuse of the one-and-done is
much less than some people want to believe.
BothTeamsPlayedHard, I agree with almost all of your excellent comments above. There is no doubt that academic integrity and the major college sports of football and basketball are competing interests at opposite ends of the spectrum. My problem is at least there was some accountability with the system before "One and Done' became the norm.
With the new system, academic fraud is almost built in. As I mentioned earlier, if the NCAA required "One and Done" players to complete all of their spring semester course work while remaining academically eligible, I would go for that.
However, I'm also bothered by another component of this process. Most of the "One and Done" guys are not students and have zero interest in college. So why are they being forced to attend college and pretend to be students? Just let them apply for the NBA out of college as their peers apply for the military, jobs, and/or college. I don't see why becoming a professional NBA player is different from any other job opportunity.
I don't want to hear about social values of education.....I made the decision to drop out of college and deliver pizza and I had to suffer the consequences of being broke for years.....unfortunately there was no rule to help me make me go to college though.....and just cuz they come straight out of HS doesn't mean they can't go to school like Greg Oden did.....its never too late to get your degree....there are middle age people going back to get there degree every day.....
The whole education thing while relevant is not what I am getting at. My point is I think the way college baseball you can either enter the MLB Draft, or go to college, but have to be there for 3 years. Though the one thing MLB has going for it is they have a very good minor league system. So, what I think the NBA should do is expand on the NBDL (each team gets a NBDL team), and add a round into the NBA draft. If a player gets drafted out of high school the NBA has somewhere to send them if a team does not feel they're ready w/o having to rush them up. Though, if they're not good in the NBDL it may be harder for them to get a spot if they came out of high school, while the player who went to college will have a faster track to making it as well as succeeding in the NBA. One thing I hate is seeing a guy leaving who is not ready, but feels the need to. I just want to see as little busts as possible. It will still happen whether or not they go to college or not, but their should be a way to find out. Also, to big college basketball fans like me would love to see players grow throughout there college careers, rather than just 1 year.
but David Stern is too cheap....all he ever does is complain about how the NBA is losing money and they aren't gonna create 15 more franchises....its a good idea in theory but I doubt it would ever happen....
Unfortunately that's true, but I definitely think he can because I believe the benefit of it would be that you would get more fans in cities that don't have nba teams and give them a team to root for.
you are preachin to it on that.....its why I don't gaf if there is a lockout if the players are gettin what they want.....they need to stand firm no matter what.....
I have not been following the whole potential lockout with the CBA, can you enlighten me on this?? Thanks.
I'm not sure of the real details myself.....I've been meaning to research it but reading through collective bargaining agreements is like watching paint dry......that and lame NCAA bylaws.....
Like Charles Barkley always says, its millionaires fighting with billionaires......
midwestbbscout, I realize this is a thread on "One and Done", so maybe this question belongs in a different thread. Did you say the players need to stand firm against the owners? If you feel it's more appropriate, please respond by starting a new thread.
the thing is jordan was there watching kwame brown. he wasnt out doing apperances and this and that. he was there watching kwame punish eddie curry and tyson chandler
also knicksfan7- there have always been guys who can start but have better players starting head of them. thats how it is in every sport. the best guy will play more and the other guy will be a back up. changing the rules wont change that
No it won't change that, but are you starting to notice a log jam where there are too many good players and you can't give everyone significant minutes because of that. It is starting to happen more since the one and done was put into effect.
thats always been the case. it was the case when i was a kid. theres not as much talent in the nba these days though so its actually less of a log jam. there were guys back in the day who were third strings who would come in when guys were hurt and do work. even without the one and done rule you will still hjave the same amount of players coming in because teams will still have the same rules as far as how many players you can have and the first and second round will have the same amount of players in it. so nothing really changes
I know what you mean about the talent, Q. Though remember there were less teams you add teams those 3rd stringers may be backups.
I was so mad when the Bulls had the 2nd (knicks pick) and guys like Oden or Durant weren't available....I know Durant probably wouldn't have went that high.....but instead they got Tyrus (I won't lie, I liked the Tyrus pick and still think he will be good).....least favorite part about the Bulls trading deadline spree.....
yeah but the talent was alos much better back then. better scorers against harder defense