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BOGUT is a top 4 center

the lake show
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BOGUT is a top 4 center

it needs to be said. he is elite. plays good defense. very nice post moves. can bang or be smooth. hes only behind howard,amare(if you classify him as a center) and yao)....some may say lopez or kahman but hes doing as well or better then they are while on a playoff caliber team)...the guy has earned it


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Ive been the biggest hater

Ive been the biggest hater on this guy for the longest time and hes finally playing close to a number one pick, as long as he stays healthy the bucks will be trending up

the lake show
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and not to mention that

and not to mention that nasty dunk on big baby

Champzilla21
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haha it was big baby, but

haha it was big baby, but yeah it was sick wicked and nasty

MagikKnick
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Yeah, I agree, his

Yeah, I agree, his improvement this season has been amazing, and because hes been in the league for a couple years already. hes also flying under the radar

Milwaukee is currently the 5th seed in the east, they've won 10 of there last 11, including wins against Boston & Cleveland, and Bogut is responsible much of there recent success

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Milluakee is looking real

Milluakee is looking real good this season, nice pieces in Jennings who will improve, Bogut, Salmons, I can't see how it is possible for them to become a championship contender though

the lake show
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they wont be a contender

they wont be a contender right now of course. that takes time. just liek other good teams they can get there through freeagents/draft/and young players getting older. teams change and dont become contenders over night unless they pull a boston

Slim
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Top 4?

Top 4?

Bynum
Duncan
M. Gasol

Slim
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Bogut is the second option I

Bogut is the second option I assume on that team

it is hard to argue that someone is not a top center only because they are in the playoffs

I did the research, In 1975 there was a guy who was traded from the Bucks The next season he was averaging 27.7 points per game and leading the league in rebounding, blocked shots, and minutes played. His 1,111 defensive rebounds remains the NBA single-season record (defensive rebounds were not recorded prior to the 1973-74 season). Also it marked the last time anyone had 4,000 or more PRA (Points + Rebounds + Assists) in a single NBA season. He earned his fourth MVP award, but missed the post-season for the second straight season.

thats like saying granger and iguodala aren't top players because of their recoerd

its flawed logic

arman
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i agree that bogut is top 4 center

but that tells how weak is center position in nba.....in last decade i dont think that theres been c (except shaq) that was really dominant.... i dont have anything againts bogut but if 16 and 10 is enough to be a top 4 center in nba,a think that we have a lack of big mans

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I agree. He's always been

I agree. He's always been pretty solid as a C IMO, but now he's finally broken out and is scoring super well, as well as rebounding and has added blocking shots as a strength of his. He was never as big a presence on D as he is right now, that's a big reason why he's so much better. I think him and Jennings are great together, especially in the pick and roll/pop. Jennings has had some impact on his playing well offensively, and the defensive-minded Skiles has made him a big presence on the defensive end.

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Most ppl don't think of

Most ppl don't think of Duncan as a C, Bynum isn't as good maybe becaz of the injuries but he's improving.
Gasol I don't think he's top

Slim
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for the record how do you

for the record how do you guys classify a center

Slim
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explain to me how bogut is

explain to me how bogut is better than Bynum

Slim
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Heck I dont even watch too

Heck I dont even watch too much basketball anymore but plz explain to me how
Bogut is better than Bynum
bcuz I remember last head to head matchup Bynum was dunking on Bynum and blocking his shots

I dont usually go by stats but

size: advantage Bynum
defensive awareness: advantage Bynum
career highs: Bynum
offensive repertoire: advantage Bynum
free throws attempted: advantage Bynum
FT%: advantage Bynum
dunks: advantage Bynum
field goal %: advantage Bynum

It seems that ppl just want to see Bogut and Jennings succeed and are jumping on his bandwagon

he is good but top 4 is a stretch

I'd like to see him play next to a more talented power forward

then I think his game would thrive he's like a more athletic version of Varejao imo

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Bogut is not better than

Bogut is not better than Bynum. No way.

He's clearly not better than Duncan or Howard. And I wouldn't rate him above Lopez, Horford or Marc Gasol, though maybe a stretch of an argument could be made.

If you consider Pau Gasol or Stoudemire to be centers, he's not better than either of them.

He's also not better than a healthy Oden or Yao, though I can give you that right now he'd outplay them.

But he is a good player. Clearly, he doesn't qualify as a bust, even if you'd like a top pick to be a little better than a borderline all-star. And he may still be improving, too.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves and jump to stupid conclusions.

For the record, I do consider him better than Kaman and maybe Nene. 

NYK2010
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can't just go by head to

can't just go by head to head matchup.
Look at Boguts numbers, blocks 2.5 a game, rebs 10.4.
He is more of a scoring option for the Bucks than Bynum is for the Lakers.
Also Bynum just started to get more playing time down the stretch in games.

JNixon
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I don't think Bynum has a

I don't think Bynum has a better offensive reporteire nor is he as aware defensively as Bogut right now, but I do think Bynum is better than Bogut. MOST of the time. Bynum has been poor at times in terms of his awareness on D, and even though he has one of the better post games in the NBA, I think Bogut has him beat.

Adi Joseph
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I think the points you make,

I think the points you make, NYK2010, are actually all in favor of Bynum. He's the more talented player on the way better team, and therefore he doesn't have the same opportunity.

Bynum would be putting up 22 and 10 on the Bucks. He's a much more talented player who happens to be playing fewer minutes and is in a significantly smaller role while also playing with teammates who are much better rebounders. 

doubledribbler
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Bogut

I think Bogut has been improving every year he has been in the league. He just has not had much around him, but Jennings was a blessing, Salmons has regained his form since he got traded, Illyasova came back improved, and guys like Delfino and Luc do a good job in their roles. They are probably a top notch scorer and a couple years of development of Jennings from being a really nice team. Skiles was also a good coach signing.

Back to Bogut. The guy wasn't getting many shots his first few years because his team was always guard dominated, even though he has a career 53% fg percentage. Then people always tend to look at who was drafted around you and two all stars were drafted right behind him. I think the area that he has made the biggest improvement is defensively. The guy takes a decent amount of charges, he's doing a better job of boarding and he's giving you some blocks every night. He's 25 and he should still be improving. Is he top 5? I'm not sure, but if he's not he is very close. After Yao and Howard, it's pretty open, especially if you are someone that doesn't think that Duncan is a center, though I am pretty sure that is what he has played this year.

Adi Joseph
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The other thing to keep in

The other thing to keep in mind is that Bynum is three years younger. I guess maybe an argument could be made that Bogut is right now about as good a player as Bynum, and maybe even a slightly better player. But no one would rather have Bogut than Bynum for even next year.

Even so, I think Bynum is a better low post scorer and makes a significantly higher percentage of his shots, both field goals and free throws, though Bogut is improving at the line.

But my biggest gripe is that Bogut has no one taking rebounds away from him. When a top rebounder joins a team, that person takes rebounds away from everyone else. Bynum is playing with two great rebounders who get more PT than him, Odom and Gasol. On the Bucks, his rebound rate would raise dramatically.

The same is true for scoring.

On face value, Bogut has better traditional statistics. But Bynum is the more talented player. He's also more limited by his team. 

Slim
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.

.

NYK2010
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Well can't just go by

Well can't just go by talent, Bynum has tons of potential.
It does hurt his stats that he's not a a top scoring option for the Lakers but it gets him easy baskets playing with Kobe and Gasol as well.
Also Odom and Bynum play about the same amount of minutes.

Al Horford doesn't even block shots he's not better than Bogut he shouldn't have been an All-Star, Lee was definately ahead of him.

I think most guys are just talking about this year too.
Bynum has played almost every game for the Lakers he hasn't improved as much as Bogut has.
I think guys like Fisher, Artest and Farmar are taking too many shots instead of Bynum getting more touches.
Should be Kobe, Gasol, Odom or Bynum than everybody else, esp. since Bynum gets into foul trouble often.

Dhamp2
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Dhamp2 chimming in!!!!!

Let me get serious for a moment:

Andrew hasn't gotten too much better since 2008, but as I posted last week, his point guard is no longer igoring him. Brandon Jennings (all year long) has made it a priority to get him the ball. With that, Pau Gasol is the best center in the NBA. Next in order is:

Yao Ming (Though he hasn't played this year)
Robin Lopez (Wait until next year)
Andrew Bynum
Chris Kaman (though he's hasn't been that strong the last 25 games)
Shaq
Marc Gasol
And wait but, Brooke Lopez is up and coming.

I'm not counting Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan because they are power forwards.

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway. I have written it, and now it is LAW.....

NYK2010
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What's Bogut 10th?

What's Bogut 10th?

Dhamp2
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More Dhamp2

Also, 15 years ago, I'm not even sure Andrew Bogut would be starting. To think he was the number 1 overall pick, lol

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway. I have written it, and now it is LAW.....

JNixon
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DHamp. lol. You can't just

DHamp. lol. You can't just give guys positions because you want them to play there. Pau Gasol is a PF, and Dwight Howard is a C. Tim Duncan was a PF, but he's been playing Center for at least 2 seasons now

Dhamp2
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Um......last I checked, Pau

Um......last I checked, Pau Gasol played center beginning when he was about 12!!!!!! He played it in Europe before coming to the United States!!! When he did come to America, he played center in Memphis for about six years!!!! And because he's with another 7-footer you want to call him a power forward, oh OK. I remember when the 6 foot 6 Danny Fortson started center for the Denver Nuggets!!! Was he really a center.....HECK NO!!!

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway. I have written it, and now it is LAW.....

pistonsman
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Now way Bogut is a top four

Now way Bogut is a top four Center. Top four right now are: #1 Dwight Howard,#2 Brook Lopez,#3 Amare Stoudemire,#4 Andrew Bynum. Bogut is in the top 10, but the top four NO. Why is is the top four anyway why not the top five.

JNixon
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Dwight Howard played PG when

Dwight Howard played PG when he was in middle school too....so is he a PG now? Mike Beasley was the Center for Kansas State in college, is he going to play that in the NBA now? Do you consider him a C? Alot of guys played positions in lower levels of competitions and some can play it for spot minutes, but that does not mean that's the position they're best suited to play in the NBA sir.

Dhamp2
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Hmmmmm.....Nene of the

Hmmmmm.....Nene of the Denver Nuggets is actually better than Bogut!!! And if Nene was on a team that wasn't as selfish as my Nuggets, he would avg. 20 and 10....I've always said this. And apparently Doug Collins agrees, because I heard him say it last week!!!

I have written it, and now it is LAW.....

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

Slim
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it comes down to

it comes down to matchups

Dwight cannot play the 4 unless you surround him with a better running team

right now they are a half court set team

that focuses on getting defenses to collapse and then firing up jumpers

in a perfect world Dwight is a 4

but how many players dominate in transition

Lebron, Wade, Iguodala and a couple others

nearly every other team has a big center that they play half court ball with

not to many running teams and the Magic are not one of them

Dhamp2
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Everyone in the WORLD knows

Everyone in the WORLD knows that Pau Gasol is a center. Let's be foreal. If you didn't know........

I have written it, and now it is LAW.....

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.

MDOTFREE
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i think top 4 is 1 howard 2

i think top 4 is

1 howard
2 duncan
3 yao
4 bynum or kaman

so i dnt see him and better than 6th. now that he's healthy he's playin really good ball and i think he's on the 2nd tier level with camby, nene, lopez, m. gasol and (maybe) a healthy odom.

p. gasol, horford and david lee are PFs playin outta position so i really dnt consider them centerz

Slim
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Dwight Howard could play the

Dwight Howard could play the 4

but that would put a premium on getting him more touches in transition and less half court offense

Rashard Lewis and Vince Carter arent going to run the floor and dunk on your head too much

but they are super-talented so why alienate them with a running game?

NYK2010
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Lopez 2nd best center but he

Lopez 2nd best center but he leads his team to 7 wins.
Also he has 9 rebs in 37 mins and 2.5 turnovers a game and he doesn't play w/a big time rebounder either.
That team can't score at all aren't they last in scoring.

You'd probably say you wouldn't take 4 Centers in the league over Bynum but that doesn't mean his the 4th best.

If Bynum is a top 4 Center, Gasol is top 5 PF and Kobe the best SG the Lakers wouldn't lose much at all.
Even if they were going through the motions in the regular season.

BTW Gasol isn't a Center he shoots plenty of jump shoots and doesn't guard Centers when Bynum is in the game.
How is Gasol a Center but Duncan isn't?

McWinning
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Honestly playing center in

Honestly playing center in Spain is different. I dont think hes a center here though. I do agree Nene is better than him, but Robin is too clumsy offensively, maybe he proves me wrong, and add some good post moves but i dont see him as more than a solid center. Heres my rankings.

1. Dwight Howard
2. Andrew Bynum
3. Robin Lopez
4. Nene
5. Andrew Bogut

and thats not counting Yao because hes injured, and Duncan, and Gasol are power forwards.

Slim
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***

Robin Lopez seriously?

As Charles Barkley would say
Hakeem Olajuwon is rolling in his grave lol

the lake show
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some of ya;ll keep going

some of ya;ll keep going towards the future when this is about right now.

okee youre logic is flawed because no one on bad teams are considered one of the best because they arent leading there teams to wins. thats what being one of the best includes
gasol is a pf deal with it dhamp
you dont have to put up major numbers to be one of the best at youre position, didnt billups prove that to ya'll yet in the past?
tired of hearing the hate when someone is given props. you know the hate of "well that shows how bad the centers are today" imnot gonna diminish how good a player is today by what a player did 10 or more years ago
i dont include duncan as a center but of course bogut drops below him if you do
everyone knows im a laker fan and bynums my boy but right now bogut is better. maybe bynum would be considered better if they switch places but they havent so i cant go by that. just liek some of ya'll say rondo isnt as good because of the players he has around him. stop flip floping
As far as running teams okee your wrong because watching the magic you can see that they run alot. they are no more of a half court team as they are a full court team. they are what you would call a balanced team

and okee this isnt the 1970's this is a different game. and iggy nore granger are top 4 players at there position so why you even bring them up?

JNixon
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Is Robin Lopez really

Is Robin Lopez really getting that good?? Because I don't watch the Suns a bunch, but he's been mentioned twice..It's weird seeing him getting listed.

the lake show
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i think he means brook

i think he means brook

BasterdInABasket
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Last night bogut dominated

Last night bogut dominated kendrick perkins thats not something that happens much either against perkins. I really cant believe people are saying brook and robin lopez are better than bogut though. Only advantage b lopez has over bogut is foul shooting. Bogut probably has the best hook shot in the league- right and left handed and can play a physical or finesse game depending on the opponent.
Something about bogut that is really overlooked is how good he is at defense. Hes averaging 2.5 bpg second only to howard and he is a better one on one post defender than howard. Also a couple weeks ago I last heard that bogut leads the league in charges taken which is unbelievable with how many blocks he has as well.
As far as actual centers are concerned Id put him behind howard obviously but he is right there with bynum and nene who is extremely underrated.

BasterdInABasket
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I knew the center position

I knew the center position has gotten pretty weak but if robin lopez with his 8 and 5 line is a top center i think the position should just be eliminated altogether.

NYK2010
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Robin Lopez isn't a top

Robin Lopez isn't a top Center not sure where ppl getting this from, Brook isn't the 2nd best center either probably in a few years he will though.

Slim
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no one on bad teams are

no one on bad teams are considered one of the best because they arent leading there teams to wins. thats what being one of the best includes

kobe
Despite the fact that Bryant was the league's second leading scorer at 27.6 points per game, the Lakers floundered and missed the playoffs for the first time in over a decade.

lebron
In the 2004–05 season, James was selected to his first NBA All-Star Game and recorded 13 points, 6 assists, and 8 rebounds, as the Eastern All-Stars defeated the Western All-Stars 125–115.[11] During the season, James became the youngest player in league history to record a triple-double and make the All-NBA Team.[2] He averaged 27.2 points, 7.2 assists, 7.4 rebounds, and 2.2 steals per game.[9] However, the Cavaliers failed to reach the playoffs again and finished with a 42–40 regular season record.

youre right those guys are terrible

and i dont know the stats but the Magic seem to shoot a lot

they are not a fastbreak team they are a half court set team

and if Bogut is top 4 what does top 4 get you? a shiny gold medal

how bout we wait till playoffs b4 you start hopping on his bandwagon bcuz he dunked on a 6'9 300 lb
center

bogut is aware on defense ill give him that,but what does top 4 get you? i mean does it really matter

Im just gonna disregard this stuff bcuz in the grand scheme of things

Bcks just arent good this year bogut is not gonna take over a game offensively I just dont see it happening

they need to sign or trade for better players giving up Hakim was a bad decision in my opinion

McWinning
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Sorry i meant Brook.

Sorry i meant Brook.

IndianaBasketball
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I think Howard and Yao, even

I think Howard and Yao, even though he's injured, are the two best centers in the NBA. They're the only elite centers in the NBA.

Bogut has had a very good season, but has he really separated himself from other centers like Nene, B. Lopez, M. Gasol, Bynum and Kaman? What about Lee, Horford and Noah?

Even if you rank Bogut as the third best center, I still don't think he's in the same class as Howard and Yao. He's not in that elite class. There's Howard and Yao, and then the other good centers. To me, it's about which of these good to very good centers can make that jump up to being in that elite class.

the lake show
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umm okee iggy and granger

umm okee iggy and granger arent kobe and lebron...those were bad examples. ...were the lakers a losing team or did they just miss the playoffs and had a good record?...and cleveland was 42-40 that year....is that a losing team?..is that the pacers or the sixers record this year?

whyyouhating
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the bucks are a playoff team because of Bogut

He is the 1st option on that team and has been balling all year.
If you have been watching the Bucks then you would know that, I am a big BJ fan he has been the first pg they had to get him the ball on a reg basis. He has been balling this year, Bynum gets point off Kobe a Gasol he has potential to be better but he is not right now. He got moves on the post and he protects the rim.
Top 4 way night top 5 def .

BasterdInABasket
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@ let your game speak

"Bcks just arent good this year bogut is not gonna take over a game offensively I just dont see it happening
they need to sign or trade for better players giving up Hakim was a bad decision in my opinion"

I bet the bucks really regret giving up warrick... Milw is 11-1 since the trade and chicago is 4-6. Salmons has scored at least 15 in every game but one for the bucks and averaging 18ppg. And milw will have the option to switch draft picks with the bulls which will happen since chicago is currently under 500 despite having hakim warrick in their team while milw is 34-29 having just beat 2 of the top teams in the east

the lake show
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^^^lol when was that said

^^^lol when was that said

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