Durant vs. Oden
So as I continued to be amazed with how good Durant is this quickly I find myself thinking and laughing when I hear Kevin Pritchard as well as other Portland fans saying they would still take Oden over Durant. SO here is your chance, who would u really take if you could do the draft over again. Personally I still think Oden will be good, just not franchise center/bill russel good. Durant I think is on the verge of becoming the most complete scorer as well as a top 3 player in the NBA at 21!!! Who you got?
We discussed this issue yesterday in a thread called "NBA GMs Enamored With Size" or something similar. Here's what I wrote to start the thread.
For as long as I can remember, there's always been a draft related debate on whether you take the best player available or go with a big center. NBA GMs are in love with height, so even if there's a more talented player available, they usually elect to go with a big man. I haven't studied the history of all drafts, but I suspect that on average, taking a center over a better guard or forward usually turns out to be a mistake.
There are many examples in past drafts but three that immediately come to mind are:
1. Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan
2. Greg Oden over Kevin Durrant
3. Hasheem Thabeet over Tyreke Evans
Obviously everyone has their own opinion, but I think in general, you should select the best player available. The examples above are a pretty good place to start. Oden was the only center above with great potential, but in all 3 examples I would have taken the better player over the big man.
from the past decade gms have been drafting these bigs over the most talented players in the draft exp
1. Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan
2. Greg Oden over Kevin Durrant
3. Hasheem Thabeet over Tyreke Evans, jennings harden curry flynn
4.andrew bogut over chris pual and deron williams
5.Andrea Bargnani over brandon roy
6.Emeka oakfor over devin harris
7.Darko Milicic over melo and wade
Oden is actually good though. honestly if you take away the injuries Oden was a no brainer for number one pick unless you had a legit big man. His size athleticism and defense are high for a big man and he has a great personality. He is not the only Portland big man getting hurt. I think if he can stay healthy which is no a big If he will show that he deserved the spot above Durant even though I would have picked Durant number one because i am bias i watched a lot of texas games and dude was a beast. The game was just too easy for him. Right now he is putting up ridiculous numbers in his third year. I also remember telling people Stephon Curry would be a legit point and be a beast his first year people laughed and made fun of me but i showed once again that i was right
DHAMP2 has nothing on my cockiness lol(just a joke homie)
The majority of NBA watchers today are bandwagons. Understand that a legit big man with incredible dominance is ridiculously hard to come by. Dwight and Shaq were the two most dominant C's of our past decade and many are yet to find an answer to defend them. If Greg were to be healthy, that is a no-brainer number one draft pick. Kevin Pritchard has a point saying that he would still have selected Greg over Kevin, despite injury, considering the fact that Greg can still be great. The window of opportunity is there of course, but Greg has to stay healthy. Hell, even I would take Greg over Kevin. Kevin is a lethal scorer. Greg can rebound and defend the paint in a fashion that resembles greats. He hasn't lost that touch, rather, hasn't been able to do it as a result of injury. Kevin Pritchard has a point, and therefore, this topic is debatable.
i said it then and ill say it now id take durant. ..also the dream was also taken ahead of jordan
It all depends. If I was guaranteed that Oden wouldn't suffer any major knee injuries, then yes... I'd take him over Durant if I could do it again. If healthy, Oden would STILL be the no brainer pick. He'd be the second most dominant young center right now, behind Dwight Howard. He wouldn't be the scorer that Durant is, especially since his team doesn't need him to, but I think he'd be showing dominance at both ends of the floor. As great as Durant is, he's still only dominant at one end of the court and I don't see that changing.
I get tired of people talking about Sam Bowie being picked over Michael Jordan in 1984. You people do know that Hakeem Olajuwon was picked with the first pick over Jordan also, right? I don't hear anybody bringing that up. Obvioulsy Jordan is arguably the greatest of all-time, but Olajuwon is one of the greatest centers of all-time and in the Hall of Fame.
When using examples, people always use examples where a center didn't pan out. I think it's hilarious lol. How come nobody brings up Ralph Sampson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, Brad Daughtery, David Robinson, Rik Smits (2nd), Dikeembe Mutumbo (4th), Shaquille O'Neal and Alonzo Mourning (2nd), Chris Webber, Tim Duncan, Pau Gasol (3rd), Yao Ming, Dwight Howard and Brook Lopez (10th). Lopez should've gone second behind Derrick Rose, but I don't hear anbody talking about that.
dolla130, I was hoping someone would come up with additional examples of taking big men over the "best player available" and those were pretty good.
man i cant wait to see durnt get into his prime and portland kick shaking there head wondering why they didnt take the d.c kid. future hall of famer there. but as i said before is wishes were fishes no one would starve
Those are interesting names you brought up and I'm gonna try to answer the questions you asked.
1. Sam Bowie over Jordan is always discussed for a couple of reasons.
a. Hakeem Olajuwon was a great player and already off the board when Portland's choice came up.
b. Bowie vs Jordan is an average big man versus a potential great player.
If you're deciding between Hakeem Olajuwon and Michael Jordan at that point in time, it would have been a very tough decision because Hakeem was so good and had tremendous potential. However, Sam Bowie was nothing more than an above average center at Kentucky so that choice was a no brainer. It should have been Jordan. And that's why people bring it up all the time.
2. Every big man you mentioned was very talented and the majority of analysts thought they would be outstanding at the next level. I think most people focus on the choices where you have an outstanding player versus a big man who is only average or above average. Very often the big man is taken over the more talented player because it's harder to find good big men. I think the Thrabeet vs Tyreke Evans choice is a good example.
Unless the big man is equally or almost as talented, I think the choice should be the better player. In all three of the examples I posted, I would have gone with the better all around player. The only tough choice in those three was Oden vs Durrant, because unlike Sam Bowie, Oden had the potential to be a dominant big man.
bowie was kinda like oden as far as teams liked what they though he would potantially become. he was a all american and put up oden type numbers his second year in college and his nba numbers arent very far from odens as well.
It's all hypothetical. Facts are Oden is injured and on the shelf again, while Durant is a MVP candidate. All the "what ifs" are pointless because it is what it is. We'll never know what Oden would've done the first three seasons of his career IF he was healthy...
As an Oden fan and somebody who followed him all throughout high school, I just hope he gets healthy and has a great NBA career. I know how bad he wants it and how hungry he is to be a great player. He's somebody I enjoy rooting for because I know how hard he works and how good of a person he is on/off the court. He's only 22. I think he can still put up some monster seasons and win some rings.
LOL... You continue to show you just have no idea what you're talking about.
Bowie was NOTHING like Oden, except for the injuries in the NBA.
do you read? "bowie was kinda like oden as far as teams liked what they though he would potantially become"
you just see what you wanna see huh?..where does it say they are just alike?..i said teams like both because of what they thought they would potentially do
Tezo83, we've talked about this before and we always start by saying let's go back in time before we knew about Oden's injuries. You can't criticize Pritchard using hindsight, nobody knew Oden would have two major injuries.
Although I personally I would have taken Durrant, I definitely understood why Pritchard took Oden. In my opinion, that was one of the toughest major draft day decisions I ever saw. You could make great arguments for taking either player number one. I remember my brother saying you can't go wrong with either guy.
As for the other choices I mentioned, they were no brainers on the day of the draft. I also remember my brother and I talking about how dumb the Portland GM was when he took Bowie over Jordan. Of course at the time, nobody had any idea Jordan would become possibly the greatest player ever. But one thing we knew for sure, Sam Bowie would never be a star in the NBA.
good point rtbt
Sometimes it's a little hard to sort through the trash you write and read your posts, but yea... I do read.
Now you read my post... Where did I say you said they were just a like? I said that Oden was nothing like Bowie because you started your post by saying... "Bowie was kind of like Oden..." Read your own post.
Truth is, Oden is nothing like him. If you're saying Oden is like him just because of what he could potentially become, then a lot of players today are like Bowie lol. Not only that... NBA teams didn't think Bowie would potentially be a great/franchise caliber center like NBA teams thought Oden would be.
Bowie was expected to come in and be a solid big man. He was never expected to be great. Oden was expected to be a great center. The expectations were MUCH higher than what Bowie ever had. The only thing that increased expectations on Bowie was the guy that was picked after him. Oden had been getting pressure to be the next great center since his junior year of high school when scouts said they'd pick him over Dwight Howard with the top pick in the 2004 NBA Draft.
Like I said... Other than injuries and being drafted by Portland, you can't even put them in the same sentence.
so far oden's career is goign exactly the way of sam bowies
Unfortunately maybe so... Hopefully it turns around for him. However, NBA teams didn't view Oden like they viewed Bowie. They were nothing alike in that regard. Bowie was expected to a good center who fit in with Drexler, etc. Oden was always expected to come in and be great. Big difference.
you can say i dont know what im talking about or " i dont read through the trash. but the difference is you just hate. i can keep my personal feelings aside and just talk basketball while agreeing and disagreeing. you tend to wanna resort to childish stuff for some reason and name calling( yeah got a letter from admin talking about youre continued point taking).
so you can continue to name call and say i dont know what im talking about. doesnt matter because ill continue to talk basketball with people and debate and not give myself 2 points or take other peoples points. one person not liking my opinion doesnt make nor break me. with that said i will now continue to talk basketball
odens career is starting to mirror bowies. neither came in living up to expectations which were high
both are showing to be injury prone
the sad part is portland may end up being a team that made 2 very very bad decisions twice
Some need to take into account the fact that portland already has Roy, so taking Oden during that time presented more positives...Sure it would have been one heck of an offensive team with Roy and Durant but something tells me that Durant won't put MVP numbers if he had to share with an all-star. Roy-Durant may have been sick to watch, but that won't win championships... Defense does...
Also, the Sam Bowie pick... that time, i think Portland already had an incredible player who plays in the same position... The Glyde anyone? It would've been stupid for them to pick up someone who plays the same position as your best player... Again, of course they didn't know that Jordan would be greatest... I think Portland picked correctly...
This is much like the Thabeet pick... Picking Tyreke, would've just meant another ball-hawking person for the Memphis Grizzlies... Both OJ and Tyreke need the ball in their hands to be effective...
Of course now people can say that Team A blew it and GM A should get fired, but drafting is an unexact science, there can be no perfect picks... Sometimes I pity the GM's... They have the hardest jobs out there... No matter how good of a GM you are, you don't control your fate... Name one GM who hasn't made a blunder... none right?
Both were great players coming out of college. Durant had arguably the greatest freshman season in NCAA history and Oden led his team to the National Championship Game. His team lost, but he dominated both Noah and Hoford who were to lottery picks. After the game, Noah said Oden was the best and most dominate player that he'd ever played against. Said he was a monster.
I don't look at selecting Oden over Durant as being a mistake by KP. He did take the best player available in my opinion.
i understand what you are trying to say but do you pass up on melo just because you have lebron( if that was the case)....they had roy but durant plays sf. you dont pass up on a very very very good player just because you have someone else who can score or plays the same position. i bet det would pick melo if they could. or if lebron would have slipped down do you pass on him because you have prince? imnot saying a team is wrong for thinking liek that but personally id have to take a player that is very good even if i have another good player on my team who plays the same position
i cant put full blame on portland for the oden pick becaus ei can understand what they were thinking and i would have picked him before watching durant kill that year in college. after that i thought it was a no brainer that durant should have went first because he had that it factor
Listen my man... Let's just ignore each other on here for now on. First, off... You're lying. There's no way you got a letter from an admin (LOL) about me point taking or giving myself points because... I don't care about points LOL. You're the only one who continues to talk about them. You consistently bring up points. If anybody is hating, it's you. You're hating about something that I don't even care about... I come on here soley for the purpose of talking basketball. Take ALL of my points and give them to yourself if it'll make you feel better. That goes out for anybody.
Where did I call you a name? I said you didn't know what you were talking about, which is something you consistently show. I'm not the only one who's said that about you. I said I have trouble reading through your trash after you questioned whether or not I read.
And I said that other than injuries and being drafted to Portland, Oden has no similarities to Bowie and teams didn't view them the same as what they could "potentially" bring either. Bowie wasn't expected to come in and be a great center or dominate one day. That's just common sense and published everywhere.
im not ignoring anyone..if someone makes a good point im gonna let them know.. if i dont think they did i will let themknow..im not just gonna come at them when i dont agree with them. thats not what i came on here for. i came to converse about basketball which i have been doing. you are more then welcome to ignore me but i will continue to comment on a post you make if you make a good point or if you dont if its a post im interested in talking about
Tezo83 wrote, "I don't look at selecting Oden over Durant as being a mistake by KP".
I don't look at it as a mistake either. As I said earlier, I thought it was the toughest draft day decision I can remember. If Oden wasn't injured, he could have validated Pritchard's choice.
I liked Durrant over Oden for several reasons. When you have the number one choice in the world, I think you have to go with the guy whom you believe can't miss. In my opinion, Durrant was as close to being a sure fire future All Star as I had seen in years. My philosophy is go for the guy with no questions about his potential.
As for Oden, he clearly looked as if he could be great, but I saw some weaknesses in his game and I wasn't as convinced as you were that he would be a dominant force. However, despite my personal observations, the potential for Oden to become a dominant big man was clearly there. In the end, I disagreed with him but I thought Pritchard made an excellent choice.
Tezo83, there was one other aspect of the Oden-Durrant choice that very few people talk about. Both of them are very smart and character guys. I usually go with the character guy but in this case both of them were.
Well stop crying like a little baby when I come at you hard about something I disagree with. And stop making up stuff about admins sending you letters (LOL... Seriously?).
Most importantly, stop talking about points. I honestly could care less. It was fun when they first implemented it, but I don't think people (other than you apparently) has cared about them for quite a while now. IF you want to take my points, feel free. Take them all. If I truly cared about points, I'd go back through to the very beginning and bump my total up 2522 times.
Hmm, let's talk hypothetically that in some magical way, the Cavs got the number 1 draft pick back in 2007, with Durant and Oden on the board, i'd say Cleveland would have definitely picked Oden... I'd go as far as saying that Mike Brown would have traded his wife and children for that pick... hahaha
I do get what you're trying to say though... and I respect your opinion...
You didn't see any weaknesses in Durant's game?
We just have a difference in opinion, because I didn't have any questions about Oden's potential. I can say that though because I watched him all throughout high school too. Other than back to the basket post moves and maybe playing with a higher motor, I didn't really see any weaknesses in his game. And those were things he could improve within a couple of seasons. His motor is already much better in the NBA than it was in college. Even his back to the basket game was showing improvement this season before he went down. He was starting to show the ability to be a very good passer during the double team and Portland was starting to run their offense through him at times. The only thing that's hurt Oden is injuries. That's it.
i would have taken oden. I liked durant since highschool and knew he would be special. But a dominant center who can take care of the lane on the defensive end and clean the boards and minimize the impact of guys like Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Tim Duncan and every other big man in the game, does not come along very often. It is much easier to either sign or trade for a wing player who can get buckets, but the big man is much more rare.
But of course in hindsight portland messed up because durant has been even better then most expected and oden has been more known for naked pictures thenanything on the basketball court.
True... It's really harder to compare draft decisions when injuries come into play because no one really expects them to happen... Consider this, if Portland picked Durant, then OKC gets Oden who doesn't get injured, what would people say about Pritchard when OKC wins championships ala Spurs style(considering their coach and GM have Spurs pedigree)? They would be saying the exact same thing, that Portland made a mistake... And also, if OKC got the first pick in the 2007 draft instead of Portland, I'm 100% sure that they would have drafted Oden...
Durrant was unstoppable on offense, he was one of the best rebounders in all of college basketball, he was very smart, and he was only 18 years old. He was also a young guy who was unselfish and a team player. Although he was very thin, Durrant had the kind of body that could fill out when he got a little older.
As for Oden, he was clearly a major force both under the boards and on defense. He was also very smart and a great team player. My questions about Oden were on the offensive end of the court.
Tezo83, I keep repeating the same thing. It's not as if I didn't think Oden could be great, because I did. I just wasn't 100% sure of it. However, with Kevin Durrant there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that he was a future All Star.
Since I thought both players had great potential, it was an extremely difficult choice. I went with Durrant only because I didn't see any weaknesses in his game. Having said that, I clearly understood why Pritchard went with Oden and I will never criticize him for that. That choice was nothing like the Bowie vs Jordan no brainer.
Jumbybo, if you read all of my posts above, I am in no way criticizing Kevin Pritchard, whom I think made an excellent decision on Oden. Injuries should have nothing to do with our opinions because no one can predict future injuries on draft day.
For the reasons stated above, I would have gone with Durrant and I said that before the draft. I also said the Oden or Durrant selection was the toughest draft day decision I can remember, and I will never criticize Pritchard for that choice.
haha but i agreed with you... i said true! The second part was just me asking a hypothetical question...
lol..crying liek a baby.....ill be the adult then
the way some people felt about oden going first is the same way i felt about durant going first
Is this a topic that should even be debated? Even if you take away from the fact that Oden is injury prone, the guy is extremely clumsy. He's a solid guy when he plays, but it's either injuries or foul trouble that keep him off the court and the foul trouble is no excuse for not playing. We're watching Durant tear through teams, score at will and just earn the first of many all star appearances. When it's all said and done, I'm not even sure he will end up with the 2nd best career in his draft class. Even in college Durant was doing everything Oden was doing and more. If I remember correctly he also averaged more rebounds while playing the 3.
youre right its not really debateable
you know wat i dont understand...ppl say great centers are hard to come bye and good perimeter players are easy to come bye...then why would you waist the first pick in the draft for a potential bust...becuase im seeing this often where the second draft pick is a player that is already somewhat of a accomplish player and the first is only based on potenial....i just think you should always go with the better player and if thats a guard get the guard and get your big man through fee agency...