Knicks Renouncing Lee's Bird Rights?..2 max player equals no david lee for the knicks
Tracy McGrady’s arrival on Thursday may lead directly to David Lee’s departure in July. The issue is salary-cap rules.
By acquiring McGrady’s large expiring contract, the Knicks created nearly enough cap room to sign two superstars this summer. To use that cap room, they first have to renounce the rights to all of their free agents, including Lee.
That means the Knicks will forfeit Lee’s Bird rights, which allow a team to exceed the cap to keep one of its players. Once they are under the cap, they will also lose the midlevel exception, a salary slot worth about $6 million.
So if the Knicks sign two maximum-salaried players, say LeBron James and Chris Bosh, should they become free agents, there will be no cap space left for Lee and no way to keep him. They will have to fill out the roster with players making the N.B.A. minimum.
so if they get 2 max players they wont have room for anything else. there bench will be pretty bad
For a second I thought it said Larry Bird's rights. Thought it was going to be another story from butidonthavemoney.
If they did land 2 max contracts from those guys, you are right, the rest of the team would be pretty bad because they don't have alot of quality players under contract right now.
This summer is going to be interesting with the Knicks, Bulls, Heat, Nets, and possibly the Wizards all wooing and courting these guys.
I just hope the Bulls don't end up with Ron Mercer again like the last time they went after T-Mac in his prime.
I am totally biased but with the Bulls having Rose and a guy like Noah, who isn't going to command the ball, and the fact that it is a huge market, I think the Bulls have a slight edge so far.
I agree as a Knicks fan I fear the Bulls most in free agency. The Nets are so bad I don't think many free agents would want to risk signing a long term deal for such a bad team. The Wizards are just a mess. The Heat just have Beasley that's it. The Bulls have an All-Star PG and a borderline All-Star in Noah. The Knicks at least have some decent players under contract (Gallo and Chandler). Yeah the big fish in free agency will either stay with there teams, Chicago, or New York.
th funny thing is the word is free agents like the nets despite there record because of lopez harris and there draft picks. im not saying they are gonna get lebron or anything but they are actually in the running despite there record because of the players they have and how the players are talented. i still think lebron and bosh(not sure why he is considering it) will stay with there teams. i also think wade will stay because amare and boozer wants to go there( they will only get one of them). but yeah the bulls are players for sure.
They won't have to renounce David Lee right away. They will have enough money even with Lee's cap hold to offer a max deal to one guy. If they can find two stars who want to go there, then they let him go. It isn't that difficult a proposition. If by some chance they get LeBron and Bosh, it doesn't matter if Lee is gone. It won't matter that they will have to fill out their roster with veteran's minimum players. A star like LeBron combined with a talent like Bosh is enough. They could probably package Gallinari, Chandler, and Curry's expiring for a third piece as well. I'm sure the thought of dealing Gallinari must upset so many Knick fans, but they ought to move him before the league catches on that he isn't that good.
I love Gallo, but if you told me it meant Lebron or Wade, I would do it in a heartbeat. I think Knicks fans overall (I am guilty of this at times) overrate Gallo, though he is still young. I think he will be a reliable scorer with 15-17ppg for his career, I think he'll make an all-star game or 2 as well. I would not want him as my #1 option, at best he's a reliable 2, and a really good #3 option.
I will say this though. Sometimes I feel like players are hesitant to come to Chicago because of Jordan. The fact that they would endlessly be compared to him and his teams might deter some of them, like they would be always playing in his shadow.
The Lakers and the Celtics were great during numerous decades but the Bulls were only good once. The Lakers and Celtics have a whole list of great players, the Bulls mainly have one in Jordan. No disrespect to Pip.
I think a player like Wade and LeBron might want to make a team their own like Jordan did with the Bulls.
Just my opinion.
Out of curiosity. If you were Donnie Walsh, who would you go after what players?? Are your eyes on the players below Lebron/Wade/Bosh like Raymond Felton, Rudy Gay, Joe Johnson?? I am just interested in who you think the Knicks should go after.
BothTeamsPlayedHard is right on the money. The Knicks won't renounce Lee right away considering they have enough money even with Lee's cap hold to sign one max deal player. They won't renounce Lee until they're sure they can sign another max deal player.
He's also on point about the Knicks being able to package Curry's expiring contract along with Gallinari or Chandler to bring back a few players next season. Another thing to point out is that the Knicks have all of their Bi-Annual and Mid Level remaining. IF they go into the 2011 free-agency period over the cap, they'll be able to use both.
The Knicks will have a lot of options.
well since its a forgone conclusion that lee's bird rights will be renounced i think you look at everyone and go after everyone. they should know early on who is really interested in coming there and who isnt. i dont think they need to sign 2 max players unless is bron and wade or one of those and bosh because that leaves them with no money to sign anyone else. they shouldnt try to go for all or nothing or panick and just make it a couple year project. dont need to spend all there money this year. they can get a max player then sign 2 other good young players to go with the max guy and just grow from there.
I agree. Unless it's Lebron/Wade, Lebron/Bosh, or Wade/Bosh then no reason to give out 2 max contracts. I am pretty sure a nice free agency class is coming out for 2011. If the Knicks can't get any of those 3, I wouldn't mind going after Raymond Felton and Rudy Gay, and try trading away Wilson Chandler for another piece as well as keeping David Lee. If the Knicks could have a lineup of Felton-Gallo-Gay-Lee-Young Center (possibly try getting Camby with MLE) as well as a bench of Toney Douglas, Curry, Knicks 2 2nd round picks, try keeping T-Mac if he wants to stay, either House or Rodriguez, and sign a vet minimum power forward that's 12 guys right there.
Q, don't you think that those three guys are going to want the team they might be signing with to go all out? I don't think Wade or LeBron want to wait for a couple year project. Those guys are hungry.
One max guy with some good role players would be good. Plus Currys contract comes off the books after next season. So they will have some more money to spend after next year. And there is no way they trade Chandler..look at the guys stats. shooting nearly 48% from the field. Also a really good defender, an athletic freak of nature. And Gallinari just needs to be more aggressive, dont forget hes only 21. Dirk Nowitzki wasnt that great his first couple years either.
yeah but the knicks cant afford to go all out. if they get those 2 they dont have the money to get anyone else. you cant just win with 2 max players and a bench full of min contract guys. unless those guys are willing to wait another year when currys contract goes off the books but reports are wade and bron wanna win now they dont want to have to wait. too many people think the knicks need to try to win now but thats not the case, they can get players and build up there team. isiah tried to do the build now thing instead of being patient and that doesnt work unless you can do a deal like boston did. too many people also think its lebron or bust but they dont realize tthat the knicks can get planty of other players and build a very good team. gallo and chandler are very nice players and if tmac can even be hal the player he was thats a pretty good player as well. one or 2 would have to be trade bait though because they all pretty much play the same position
It's not a forgone conclusion that they'll renounce Lee's bird rights... A lot of people assume Walsh's goal is signing two max deal free-agents, but he's never said that. He won't renounce Lee unless the possibility of landing another max deal free-agent is a real possibility. As it was said above... They still have enough money to sign one max deal free-agent even with Lee's cap hold.
I agree with you that there are plenty of talented players out there to go after instead of just going all in for LeBron and Wade. I would be happy if the Bulls got Bosh/ Boozer and a solid 2guard. I also agree that some teams may have just set their franchise back a ways by unloading in hopes of signing one of those guys.
The Knicks have a lot of work to do if they can't sign one of those guys.
The Nets aren't in that bad of shape. Like you said, they have an all-star type center in Lopez to build around. Plus they have Harris and a top 3 pick this year.
It's funny you said that, because my next story was going to be about the Knicks taking away Larry Bird's rights...
Tezo's right. If the Knicks get can two superstars than sayonara to David Lee.
For Knicks fans... Would it really be that disappointing if the Knicks signed LeBron, re-signed Lee (He'd be much cheaper than Wade, Bosh, Stoudemire or Boozer... They may be able to get him for $9-10 million per year) and then added a couple more solid pieces? Sometimes quantity is better than quality. They could use some of the money they save to buy themselves into the first round, since they don't have a pick this year.
They'd enter the season with the expiring contract of Curry and two young solid wing players in Chandler and Gallinari. They could trade Curry's contract alone to bring back a solid player or two, or they could package it with Chandler or Gallinari to bring back a very good player or two... Or draft picks.
I don't think the Knicks have to break the bank this summer. The free-agency class in the summer of 2011 is very solid. I seem to be in the minority, but I think the Knicks have a lot of options to rebuild their team now and going forward.
I agree with you. Donnie Walsh is the Knicks GM for a reason he knows what he came into and is treating it as a 3-5 year process, he's in year 2. I don't think the goal was ever get Lebron and Wade, I think the media made it out that way. Now with that said I think he will go after them, but he isn't putting all his eggs in one basket he wants to build a team he's not going to use all his cap room on 2 guys unless it's a combo of the Big 3 (Lebron, Wade, Bosh) the guy knows what he's doing. I am really unsure as to what the Knicks should do. I would be very content with Lebron, but I would also be content with having many good pieces and then signing a superstar in 2011, which I think there are a couple of those as well. We can only wait and see.
I agree with Tezo, look what LeBron is doing with the team he has now. Best record in the league..with that cast.
I love how a few weeks ago you were posting how the Knicks are screwed because they dont have enough money for one max and Lee and now you are making one that says they dont have enough money for 2 maxes and Lee. Stop trying to be so negative about the Knicks. Fact is, other than giving up a 2012 pick they are in great shape. They only have 3 young and very talented players under contract for next year and one large expiring contract that will be used in a lopsided trade to save some team money. They can easily afford a core of Lebron, Lee, Tmac (hopefully he can still be decent), Sergio, Chandler, Gallo, TD, and then a good player like Okafor in a trade for Curry to fill out their 8 man rotation. Leave Giddens, Walker and a 2nd round pick on the bench just in case. How is that not a top 2-3 team in the league?? that 2012 pick will be 29th if this happens and they will buy the 27th for 3 million.
No Knicks fan would be disappointed if they ended up with LeBron.
Obviously Walsh had something in mind. Otherwise this deal would not have gone down.
whos being negitive?..i just posted what is being reported on hoopsworld. and they cant sign 2 max and lee unless lee would sign for leauge min. stop looking at it from a fans point of view and look at it from a realistic point of view. and a couple of weeks ago they didnt have the cap space genius. anyway... i would sign lebron and try to keep lee but i doubt lebron even comes because that right there isnt a title team and with the addition of antwan i think its more likely he stays.
The Knicks will not claim their estimated $31.5 million in cap room until they have renounced the rights to all their free agents.
so they have choice to make. if they want to sign 2 max players they have to renounce lee's rights. if not then they can sign one max. also if they renounce his rights that puts them under the cap and they lose there mid level. another problem is while they are chasing these other free agents david is gonna be getting attention from other teams tryna sign him and the longer he waits on the knicks the less money he will get because other teams wont risk missing out on other players while waiting on him. this will be a very interesting summer indeed
I don't think the addittion of a 33, soon to be 34, year old combo forward will have any impact on whether or not LeBron stays in Cleveland.
thats youre opinion. i think it does im sure they ran it by lebron. plus cleveland will be able to sign another good player when shaqs contract comes off the books. cleveland is gonna look pretty good this summer i must say
Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
Shaq's $21,000,000 does come off of the books, but they're currently $27,020,835 over the cap... They'll still be over the cap.
The only way Cleveland can pick up a big time free-agent is through trade... They can't even use the Mid Level, since they have barely any remaining... They have the full Bi Annual, but they aren't going to be able to sign a big time free-agent with that.
well shall see in the summer. anyway i forgot to add dan that it wouldnt be a bad idea to try and see what they can get for chandler if they get joe johnson and another free agent. it would be nice is tmac plays pretty well
But you just said that Cavs would be able to sign another free-agent by using the money from Shaq's expiring contract lol... That just proves you have no idea what you're talking about.
The Cavs are currently over $27 million over the cap... Shaq's contract is worth $21 million... Not to mention you have to realize that LeBron, Jamison, Williams, Varejao, West, Parker and Hickson will all be making more next season... Cleveland is still millions over cap. They have no money to sign a free-agent. Why do you think they're trying so hard to acquire players through trade?
im sure danny ferry will figure out something this summer with trades....does anyone know if the knicks are playing on tv tonight other then in ny?..tmac is suppossed to start. interested in seeing how he does
point is the Knicks finally cleared all the garbage they had the past decade. Now have practically a blank slate. A few very good young talented players in their rookie contracts and a valuable expiring contract. There is so many ways they can go with this and Lebron is only option 1a. Donnie Walsh is a smart man and he has a lot of choices on which way he wants to go with this. There is not a doubt in my mind he will put together a very competitive team together for the future. As nice as draft picks are they are also very overrated, each draft only has 3-4 real game changing talent and every year many lottery teams still end up with nothing to show for the draft. The Knicks will sign a lot of talent this summer and then go over the cap with trades because they could care less about how much they spend. Look for the Knicks to be a top 5-6 team in the league very soon.
i can see MAYBE a top 6 team ina coupel of years. draft picks arent overrated though. its not just the team changers that helps wins titles its the other players that fit in with the stars that do. i think the knicks will do alright as long as they continue to be patient and build a team instead of trying for a home run and listen to a coupel of dumb fans that only see quick fixes as the answer. building a team for a couple of years will only help the knicks and the fans will eventually be happy once they are done building
And as for Okafors contract, thats why e can have him on the cheap, in the rare case that the Knicks do lock up Lebron and Bosh, you think they would care about bad contracts? Okafor would form the best front court in the league with Bosh; Lebron, Chandler, Gallo, Sergio, TD and maybe tmac if he is worth resigning would split time at the 1, 2 and 3. That's the best 8 man rotation the NBA has seen in a very long time. Let giddens, walker and 2 2nd round picks get garbage minutes when necessary.
I agree that its not a quick fix. There is that possiblity of getting bosh and lebron, but its not as easy as how many ignorant fans see it. its not all eggs in one basket if lebron resigns the knicks are doomed for a decade. Im sure walsh sees this as the perfect chance to rebuild and the fact that there will be so many options this summer really helps his cause.
is okafur a free agent this year?..i didnt even know his contract was over this year.. that would be a nice pick up..once again all this stuff is maybe and just like the knicks can sign these guys to go over so can miami and chicago. it will be a very interesting summer
no its not. He has a bad contract and NO is struggling financially. What im saying is after the knicks are done signing players and they dont have any more cap room they can use something like an eddy curry expiring contract and maybe a 2nd round pick to help NO get rid of the contract (one of the many possible examples) a la Zydrunas Ilgauskas for Jamison trade. That way they can solve their depth problem after spending all their space on free agents.
it will be a very interesting summer indeed, but whoever says that the Knicks are in a worse position than they were two years ago knows absolutely nothing about sports.
yeah eddy currys contract will be very attractive.. yeah all of this COULD happen but its not a sure thing so the best option wouldnt be putting youre eggs all in one basket you know. because everything you named that the knicks could do chi and miami and the nets and clippers and a coupel of other teams could do the same thing as well. i dont think most teams are going be going way over the cap this year. at least from all the reports about teams losing money and walsh and other gm's talking about getting under the cap suggest
yeah i agree with you on that about not being in the worst position. they are in a pretty good one but it could also turn out bad as well. but not as bad as 2 years ago
Im not saying thats the only option. Im just giving an example of one of MANY. There is so many ways to go with this when you have the type of flexibility the Knicks have acquired and to the people that say NONE of if will work are just looking for excuses. Of course if you dig hard enough you can find scenarios where they end up with nothing and are awful for another decade, but same can be said for any professional sports franchise. The Knicks are in the best shape they have been in this millennium and I trust that Donnie will use all this freedom he was given wisely. I think his situation is any GMs dream, build a team from the ground up with tons of money and an attractive market, popular coach and an almost billion dollar renovation coming to the arena located in the largest train station in the United States.
I have just been reading forums where people write Knicks are doomed, headed for disaster, idiots for putting all their eggs in one basket, etc...just makes me wonder how many uneducated fans just want to go out of their way to bash the knicks.
actually i just found out from another poster that you cant go over the cap unless its the mile or bi annual thing so they cant just go sign a bunch of players to go over the cap. now that changes things
Of course they can't go over the cap. I never said they could. They can sign a max, Lee with a backloaded contract, and still have approx 8-9 million left over to spend on players like tmac (who said he will take a paycut and plus wont be worth more then 4 million because he is a shell of his old self but can still be pretty good i hope) or maybe camby for the 4-5 million. Then they can pick up Sergios option for 2 million and fill out the rest of the roster with minumums and second round draft picks (giddens,walker etc.) Then later in the season towards the trade deadline they can trade curry for a nice player to add depth for a playoff run. In the next offseason they will add a first round pick, and hopefully an aging star willing to take a paycut for the MLE to help win a championship. That again is one of the many scenarios. They can choose to sign Gay, Felton, Camby, Johnson this summer for example. Then trade either gallo or chandler with curry for w/e position they need. Point is there is so many ways to go with this and thats why this summer will be very exciting.
but you said a line up of bosh,lebron,okur. that would mean the knicks would be giving to max contracts plus going over the cap to sign okur and or tmac
good article to read what donnie says about free agency. the whole lebron or bust thing can be credited to espn, nypost, etc. this summer is more about shedding dead weight and starting a respectable franchise.
i agree the lebron or bust thing is what the fans are saying. ive said from the start that they should build the team. some one said going over the cap during the summe ror with trades or something liek that eariler but they cant go over the cap to do that
Huh? Okur? you mean okafor?
Ok let me start over... IF the Knicks sign Bosh and Lebron...they TRADE Eddy Curry's expiring 11.5 million dollar contract to NO for Okafors 11.5 million dollar contract that runs through 2014. They wouldn't care about adding an awful contract IF they locked up 2 of the top 10 players in the NBA for 6 years. Tmac might sign on for veterans minimum MAYBE if he really wants to win.
However the Tmac realizstic scenario is if we sign Lebron and Lee for example (10 mil or so), leaving 6-7 more million than the Bosh scenario. If Tmac proves worthy he said he will take a paycut (doubt he will be worth more than 5 mil anyways) and sign with the Knicks for approx 5 million. Then the Knicks can trade for a player like Okafor later in the year as well.
they wouldnt be going over the cap because Curry has a 12 million dollar expiring, they can trade for anyone with a similar price tag that has more years left just to provide financial relief for a team that doesn't think they can win with that certain player taking up 1/5th of their cap.
that could happen. put there will be others trying to make the deal for the NO big man as well so its not written in stone that that will happen. its all maybes just like any other trade idea someone comes up with.
Again that trade idea is one of many that will be available, Okafor is just an example to show that the Knicks can build some depth up even if they do spent a lot of money on only several players. Other players that fit that descripiton - troy murphy, Monta Ellis, david west, andre iguodala, elton brand, etc. point is Curry's contract is going to be very valuable in the near future.