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Is Walsh too much of a gambler?

knicksfreak
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Is Walsh too much of a gambler?

The idea of a James/Wade, Wade/Bosh, James/Bosh duo may be irresistable but Walsh may have buried the Knicks for another 5 years.

Recently, it has seemed to become increasingly likely that all 3 of these players may stay put on their current teams.

Although there is other talent like Joe Johnson available, he is not worth the Knicks trading their young PF prospect as well as their next 2 picks.

I had hoped that the Knicks would hold onto their cap space until 2011 if they couldnt get the cream of the crop this year. However this could be a bad thing because the Knicks could quite possibly lose out on a very high pick to the Rockets in 2011.

Knicks win if they sign 2 of the forementioned 3.

Knicks lose if they sign only 1, sign none, or are impatient and sign a marginal star like Johnson.

I dont like the odds.

Walsh may have lost a player like Barnes, Whiteside, Jones, or Knight for the Knicks in next years draft.


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knicksfreak

knicksfreak, great questions. Obviously we don't know the answers yet, but trading away number one draft choices almost always comes back to bite the team that gave them away. Yes NY might get lucky with one or more free agents and everybody will call Walsh a genius. However, as you pointed out, the odds are against them.

If you look at the trade yesterday, Walsh essentially gave away three number one draft choices for a rapidly aging McGrady and Sergio Rodriguez, who will probably become their starting PG. If the Knicks don't sign a couple of major free agents this summer, they will almost assuredly have another losing season next year. That will make the 2011 draft switch with Houston a much bigger loss and deal a serious blow to the future of the franchise.

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It's tough to say if Walsh

It's tough to say if Walsh is too much of a gambler. The trades he made yesterday I was fine with considering the current squad was not going to make it to the playoffs. I think 5 years is way too much to say Walsh has buried the team for. I think we'll get Bosh and Joe Johnson. Which makes a playoff team right away. I am not too worried about the future, I think Walsh is doing all the right things.

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As for the whole draft

As for the whole draft switch, I mentioned this before. It is not necessarily a bad thing. The time the Bulls did a draft switch with us back in 2007 they got Joakim Noah and the Knicks got Wilson Chandler, I would not say that was a bad thing.

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Just for clarification, the

Just for clarification, the Knicks didnt trade away our 2011 pick....The rockets just have the right to swap it....which only means our pick will be lower than we expected...but we still have a 2011 pick.

&To your point

I agree 100%, if this plan fails to get 2 out of the top 3 coveted players, then Walsh might have set this franchise back another 4-6 years of actually being competitive.

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I feel like 4-6 years is too

I feel like 4-6 years is too far of a set back. The 2011 free agency class is going to be good as well if things don't go right in 2010 and doesn't over pay a player then the Knicks will be okay. Also, I think if they Knicks got just Lebron or Wade then 1 of 3 would be okay. If the Knicks were to get Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh, I don't see that being a bad thing, it would make the Knicks a playoff team?? Right?

rtbt
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Draft Switch

OK guys, let me try this again. If the Knicks sign one or more quality free agents this summer and do well next season, you're right, it shouldn't be a major issue. However, if the Knicks don't sign a couple of major free agents this summer, they will almost assuredly have another losing season next year. That will make the 2011 switch with Houston a much bigger loss because their draft choice will be extremely valuable. That could deal a serious blow to the future of the franchise.

It certainly is a major gamble but one that could turn out well if NY strikes gold in the Free Agent market.

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Joakim Noah would have been

Joakim Noah would have been a much better fit on our team now than Chandler. Plus Isiah drafted Chandler. Say what you want about Isiah but he could draft.

Johnson and Bosh will be a very solid tandem but I dont think they are Championship favorites. From what I've seen, it looks as though Bosh may be staying put in Toronto.

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Agreed Noah would be a

Agreed Noah would be a better fit than Chandler, but Chandler is not a bust and is on the same level as Joakim Noah, so it didn't set the franchise back because of a draft swap. And agreed, Isiah could draft, I bet he would've drafted Jennings in a heartbeat. Agreed again on not being championship favorites with Bosh and Johnson, but it would be a start.

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The draft switch won't be a

The draft switch won't be a major blow to our franchise unless the swap is picks 2 and 30 then it could be. Though I don't see Houston winning it all in 2010-11. I could see something like 8 and 18 as the swap.

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I think we all took it as a

I think we all took it as a given that the Knicks swapped picks in 2011

knicksfan7
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I think the best case

I think the best case scenario for the Knicks is getting Joe Johnson and Chris Bosh (possibly through a sign and trade with David Lee). Drafting a Center and Point Guard in the 2nd round, using our MLE on a quality veteran then this team will be set to make the playoffs. We can't shoot for championships until we make the playoffs.

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knicksfan7

knicksfan7, whatever the Knicks do this summer, I think losing David Lee would be a huge mistake. Management should do everything possible to keep him for a number of obvious reasons.

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I agree, but if the Knicks

I agree, but if the Knicks get Chris Bosh then I am fine with losing Lee. If you told me today that Chris Bosh is staying in Toronto then I would be like David Lee must stay a knick by all means necessary.

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Camby would be a huge

Camby would be a huge signing at the MLE.

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I would love to have Camby

I would love to have Camby as an MLE. I seriously think if the Knicks have a starting lineup like this Toney Douglas-Joe Johnson-Gallo-Chris Bosh or David Lee-Marcus Camby with a bench of Rodriguez, Wilson Chandler, Jerome Jordan (Camby can mentor him), someone else with a 2nd round pick, Eddy Curry, Eddie House, and another 2 guys that's a playoff contending 13 man roster.

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David Lee

David Lee is one of those guys who gets better every year. He hustles from the opening tip to the end of the game and he's a great teammate. He's also a walking "double double", guys like that are hard to find. Even if they get a Chris Bosch, losing Lee would be a serious blow

juves4783
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poor knicks

i would say walsh did a lot of gambling. he basically placed an all-in bet on the knicks future. this is what epsn insider had to say.

Positive spin: Give this to Donnie Walsh: The guy has stones. The Knicks went all-in on Thursday on their bid for LeBron James, trading away draft picks and prospects to get far enough under the cap to sign two superstars this summer. The Knicks cleared $9.4 million off the 2010-11 payroll by sending Jared Jeffries and Jordan Hill to the Rockets.

That means the Knicks are looking at between $31 million and $32 million in cap space this summer. That should be enough to get a max contract and another contract very close to the max. If the Knicks land LeBron because of this, Walsh is the executive of the decade.

Negative spin: The Knicks gave up a lot for the chance to woo LeBron and a free agent of his choice. They gave up this year's lottery pick (Hill), agreed to swap picks with the Rockets in 2011, and gave up a top-5 protected pick in 2012. If they sign LeBron and another superstar, no one will care.

But if LeBron, Wade and Bosh all say no and the Knicks are stuck overpaying for Joe Johnson and David Lee to play alongside Danilo Gallinari with no point guard or center to speak of and zero depth, Walsh's decision could devastate the franchise for the next three or four years. I've never seen a GM take a bigger risk.

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I'd like to re-sign Sergio

I'd like to re-sign Sergio and he would start over Douglas but as of now neither he nor House is on the roster past next year.

Yes that team could be a contender.

knicksfan7
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Ok fine, so my roster for

Ok fine, so my roster for the knicks would look like this

PG-Sergio
SG-Joe Johnson
SF-Gallo
PF-Bosh or Lee
C-Camby
Bench
Douglas
Chandler
Curry
Jerome Jordan (if we can draft him)
Another 2nd round pick player
House (I think House may stay D'antoni likes him and he is good off the bench)
Another 2-3 players for a 13-14 man Roster.

knicksfreak
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juves.... thats from espn.

juves.... thats from espn. cite your sources

juves4783
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no duh

read the third sentence.

this is what epsn insider had to say.

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wow

U guys are pretty confident that Johnson is going to be a FA and willing to roll to the Knicks just cuz he turned down an extension. Walsh put too many eggs into a basket and I just simply don't see this ending too well for the Knicks, unless they get DWade or MeBron of course.

knicksfan7
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The Knicks are in contention

The Knicks are in contention for anyone with the cap room they have. I believe they will get a marquee Free Agent, I just don't know who. I think Johnson is the most realistic.

juves4783
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wow 2

PG-Sergio
SG-Joe Johnson
SF-Gallo
PF-Bosh or Lee
C-Camby
Bench
Douglas
Chandler
Curry
Jerome Jordan (if we can draft him)
Another 2nd round pick player
House (I think House may stay D'antoni likes him and he is good off the bench)
Another 2-3 players for a 13-14 man Roster.

if you are content with that roster, enjoy watching the rockets pick in the lottery the next 2 years.

knicksfan7
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Pretty sure the Knicks play

Pretty sure the Knicks play in the east so that roster could be a 6-8 seed, so no to your response. No reason to think the Rockets won't be picking in the lottery either, the west is always competitive.

juves4783
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the rockets won't be picking

the rockets won't be picking in the lottery. next year, they will have the same team plus yao ming. the knicks can enjoy that 20+ pick.

sergio rodriguez is awful. if he was any good, the kings would have kept him. they chose to have 2 converted sgs (udrich and evans) play pg over rodriguez. the guy can't hit a jumper for crap. and then toney douglas, he's just a bigger nate robinson. these guys are going to take a team to the play-off. laughable.

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Sergio is awful?

Come on man I think thats a bit harsh. Udrih and Evans are 2 damn good players. When Rodriguez got some time he showed he can play and his jumper has gotten alot better. 36% from 3 isnt bad at all. And he has great court vision. Sure he'll turn it over some, but so does Nash and every other pg. You think cause the Rockets are gonna have Yao Ming next year (Maybe) that they are gonna be that good? I wouldnt be so sure about that.

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And dont be a Knick hater..

itll cause alot of unneeded stress on your heart man.

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I don't think Walsh is too

I don't think Walsh is too much of a gambler. There were no quick or easy fixes for the Knicks when he was hired, but he came in with a plan and made promises to the fans... He's delivered on every promise.

1. Firing Isiah Thomas - Was terrible on and off the court. He had to go.

2. Hiring Mike D'Antoni - Exciting coach that'd bring some excitement back to MSG. The Knicks haven't made the playoffs as of yet, but they play hard and are more competitive than they were before Walsh and D'Antoni arrived.

3. Getting rid of Marbury - Talented, but was a team cancer on and off the court. He had to go. The locker room has been a better place since he's been gone.

4. Trading Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford - Randolph had a contract that was considered untradeable and both players were considered overpaid losers at the time.

5. Getting rid of Jerome James - He was an overpaid injury proned loser then and he still is now.

6. Clearing up cap space for the 2010 - He gave up Jordan Hill and two potentially high first round draft picks to do it, but the Knicks are now a major player in the greatest free-agency class in NBA history.

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tezo

Tezo, strikes again with great knowledge for the board. Well said, Tezo, Well said.

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