HOW ARE SOME OF THESE GUARDS CONSIDERED BETTER THEN RONDO
this is the pg position not sg yet people place other pg over rondo just because they score more. when people say lebron is the best they take into account his overall game right?..so why arent the same criteria's used for pg?...like who is the best defnder,best at steals, best at passing, rebounding, plus scoring. use all of that then you decide who the best pg. also assists is suppossed to be more important then scoring from a pg position which is why paul is considered the best because he gets assist as well as scoring. too many people are so amazed by athletic ability or scoring so they automatically put someone like rose ahead of rondo
I think Derrick Rose is better than Rondo. Thats just me, every category you listed is an opinion question anyway. I could say Rondo is the best defender but someone could say someone else. Even in categories Rondo may not get his due. I just think Rondo is a product of the big 3. I think without them getting Ray Allen or Paul Pierce he would be scoring at a similar pace because he is quick but his assist would be around Rose's. I have said it many times that when KG, Allen, and Pierce are gone or can't help win games anymore, Rondo will be an average PG. Derrick Rose needs to score, its not an excuse its a fact. When he scores it makes that team better. Here are the point guards I would take over Rondo if I were starting a team, Deron Williams, CP3, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and maybe Tony Parker. Thats not a bad list to be behind. I just don't think Rondo is a great PG, I think he is a solid one that can have a few all star appearances. He is a good player but his poor free throw shooting and jump shot really hurt his game alot.
you put rose ahead of rondo because of the impact he has on the court rondo is only avg 1 more reb and gets his stills in passing lanes hes an ok on ball defender cant guard anyone bigger or faster then him he cant shoot he is avg 3 more asst but look who he plays with there is no reason why he shouldnt be avg 9+ asst but on the other hand rose is a better scorer better play maker and makes his team better rondos team makes him better rose has the it factor to be one of the best pgs ever for rondo if they break up his foundation this is the best u will ever see from rondo because he cant take over games
Going to a team they had 3 future hall of famers that were knowledgable about the game of basketball helped Rondo alot...I think if he went to another team..He''ll still be a borderline allstar..But he'll never be a 1st option....
rondo showed without garnett how good he can be and showed he could be the number one option. its not an opinion who the better defender is. its common knowledges. rondo even showed when ray wasnt hitting his shots andpaul was doing so well that he could still get assists. not sure how rose is a better play maker and makes others better. who has he made better?..and how often does he ever rack up assist? as far as overall impact on the court its in rondos favor easy and its not even close.
If when you mean pg you mean how he runs a team and sets guys up and makes plays then he is the top in the east at that right now. He def is a better defender than anyone of those pg's you guys listed. He is not on CP3's level or D Will as far as pg skills. Parker is a better Scorer, Rose is a better player at this point and can score better than Rondo, and Westbrook has more potentail. But the point guard is rated on how you run a team and makes plays for others, Rondo is the 3rd best player in the league right now at doing that IMO. He just doen't come down and call a play or drive and pitch to Ray, Paul, or Kevin for shots ( 2/3 of those player havent been hitting those this year) for assist, he creates shot for the whole team. Rondo averaged almost a tripple double in that playoff series last year against Rose as the 1 st or maybe even second option. He carrier Boston to the next round and did it against orlando too 9.8 assist average. So what he plays with hall of famers. He plays with hall of famers at the end of their prime over 33 years old each. Pierce and Garnnet have missed mad games and he still did his thing in those games. Garnnet is not balling this year, Ray is not really balling this year, Paul is doing his thing still but not at the same rate as far as scoring averages.
thats cool quincey, i respect your opinion and do think rondo is a better defender and does get assists better than Rose. But I think rose is the better player.
Rose's stats this year(his 2nd nba year) 20ppg 4rpg & 6apg 3TOpg 47%FG 76%ft
Rondo's stats his second year- 11ppg 4rpg and 5apg 49%FG 61%FT and that is the first year with KG, Allen, and pierce when they won the championship. 5apg with those 3 guys. It's not a bad number for a second year guy.
Point is, at the same time in their careers, around the same age, Rose's has more points and assists than Rondo did. And Rondo had the better supporting cast to pass to than Rose does and that is a Fact. Rondo is a very good player but he isnt a superstar #1 option like D Rose, and thats fine, Rondo is still a good player but his offense is so bad he drops behind other guys like Rose and westbrook.
It all comes down to what kind of system you want the two guards to play in when it comes to comparisons.
In Chicago Rose is allowed tons of freedom with the ball, a green light to shoot (for an average shooter) and is more prominent in the offense as far as scoring is concerned because lets face it, the guy can get to the rim all day. His assists are more of a product of his speed and his athleticism than his team's halfcourt offense. He is a highly offensive player looking to create points by going to the hoop.
In Boston Rondo plays a different role. For such a quick guard he plays a very slow game. Instead of using his speed and athleticism (which is up there with D-Rose's) he relies on his brain to put points on the board for his team. Works very well within Doc's offense and frankly he can be called a game changer on defense. Leads the league in steals by patrolling the passing lanes while still being an excellent man defender for any opposing pg.
When comparing two players you have to compare them to one situation; like who would thrive better on a given team. On pure talent Rose is a stud, but Rondo, along with Nash, are the best at maximizing their own talent and the talent of those around them. Look at the past few championship teams. With the exceptions of Parker and Chauncey who were great team players on great teams, every pg is more of a role player than a star. Rondo is the best role-player point guard out there; a non-scorer who can dominate in almost every other aspect of the game.
If faced with a choice between the two, I would take Rondo on any contending team like an Atlanta (imagine....) but Rose on younger, more offensive teams like Memphis.
Another good comparison like this is Oden Durant. Now it looks like Durant is the clear-cut best of the two, but if Oden manages to string together some healthy seasons I still like the chances of Roy - Aldridge - Oden over Roy - Durant - Aldridge when it comes to winning a championship. But with that being said I would have looooooved to watch Durant's Blazer's lose in the playoffs for years to come.
I agree rondo is very good even though i hate him but J Kidd is still a better rebounder.
all that shows is that rose has better potential. but the question isnt about potential or who will be better in the future its about who is better now. another thing people throw out is playing with 3 hall of famers.. but when you look deeper tkg and allen arent playing at the level that they did as hall of famers. allen isnt a all star and kg although picked wasnt playing like a allstar yet rondo still racked up assists. also if we went by same year in career then how many people would we have said are better then kobe because they put up better first year numbers? or other rookies who either started slow or was on a team that was stacked. rose came into a perfect situation where the coach let him sink or swim and play as many minutes as he wanted and be the number one or 2 option
Rondo can score if he wants to tho. you have to understand he is a pass first pg you can go all the way back to when he was in high school that was his whole game plan ..now he has a team where he does not have to score so y score...the playoffs he proved he can be a first option when garnett was out rondo is a top 5 pg in the league because the celtics may not run as smoothly witout him
Quincey, its not about the numbers those three are putting up. Rondo is playing with three possible hall of famers which lessons the pressure for him to perform. Rose, on the other hand, was thrown the keys to a borderline playoff team at best and has thrived. His point guard abilities are hard to judge right now because he is basically playing the SG position and yet he still avgs 6 assists a game.
Right now it's is close but I would still say Rose is the better player. I also think that Rondo is as good as he is going to get right now, which is good, but Rose is just going to continue to develop his game and be a perrenial all-star every year.
that doesnt mean you take away from rondo's ability.. you dont take away from lebrons ability if he was playing with shaq and garnett on his team. not sure if you have watched boston but he has alot of pressure to perform because if he doesnt then they lose. if hes not getting the assist and playing d and running that offense then they lose. and yes rose has thrived but he hasnt made the bulls any better. hes made him self better but the bulls arent much better which goes to my point of him making others better. rondo can do more things and when need be he showed in the playoffs that he can score just as well as rose. rose hasnt shown he can play as good of d, get assists, rebounds, or steals the same as rondo on a consistant bases. when i think player i think better all around player not just one or 2 areas which is why people think lebron is the best player because of his overall ability and thats how it should be judged
Yeah i have to go with Rose on this one....first of all rose is a franshise player or close to it. second of all he is a better leader on a young bulls team who lost there leader scorer and still is in the play offs...and the ultimate reason is this guy doesnt dissapear in the 4th like Rondo does....rose is a better clutch player...i mean come on ppl have this rondo guy figured out..which is let this guy shoot those jumpers..would you want that quality in your number one player..and be honest dont just disagree its ok to admit sometimes when your wrong...to me rondo is behind all those guys that were mention above exept westbrook...he isnt a point guard and his shot is worst then rondos...
He is better right now. I don't think he has Rose's potential, but he is a better defender, rebounder, and passer. He also makes less mistakes.
also i look at it as you take away a catagory and then judge how good a player is . you take away c.p3 and dwill.s points and they still rack up assists and play good d. same with lebron except he adds rebounds. that shows how good a player is. if you take away roses points what else does he do that would make him a real good player?..which is why i have to put rondo ahead of him. i understand everyone has there opinion and thats cool im just saying how i base my opinion when im tryna figure out whos the better player. i look at overall instead of just one or 2 areas
i agree bball fan. rose has more potential and he could become the better player. he would need to improve other areas other then just scoring which as of now, is the only thing he does better because he has to
elevation1013. that was pretty indepth but very well put
I don't why you keep saying Rose is only a scorer. He avgs 6asts a game which is 6th in the East. Ray Allen must not be a good player then in your book Quincey because if you take away his scoring, what does he do well? Rose is also more explosive than Rondo. Rondo may be faster but Rose has an incredible first step and crossover, just ask Andre Miller.
And if you took Rose off of that team they would be nowhere near playoff contention.
dan E boy... u said rondo will never be the go to guy on his team... u obviously forgot last years playoffs against the bulls
when i say only a scorer im saying it compared to rondo. i see youre only seeing what you wanna see..when did i ever say rose isnt a good player? ok better cross over and more explosive...that doesnt make him a better player. rose has a better crossover then kobe roy and lebron. and more explosive then kobe and roy. this proves my point as to why some feel rose is better. they say more explosive and cross over and athleticability but when you are talking about better player you go by skills. which is scoring defense rebounding passing abilities. taking him off the team and them not being close to the playoffs doesnt tell you he's a better player either. you take kobe off his team and they are still good but does that mean kobe isnt that good of a player because his team can make the playoffs without him?..no.
as far as ray allen you take away his scoring and kobe's scoring and whos the better player?..kobe right. just like you take away rondos and roseing scoring rondo comes out as the better all around player. you add the scoring and rondo is still the better all around player that doesnt score as much
Everybody says Rondo is a product of the big 3 when he is the reason y his team won the 2008 nba finals. Doc Rivers said it himself that his wouldn't have been able 2 win a championship without him. He makes the big 3 better. If he was not their, then the big 3 probably wouldn't be doing as good. So u cnt say Rondo is a product of the big 3. I believe that Rondo is 1 uv da best pg's in the NBA.
You can't say that Rondo is the better passer, it's not fair considering the players each has to play with. Rondo may be the flashier passer but that doesn't mean he is better. Rondo is at 2.9to a game and Rose is at 2.8 so you can't say that Rondo makes less mistakes either. Since when is a quick first step or explosiveness not a skill? If you can beat your defender off the dribble and get to the rack or free yourself up for an open jumper, that is a skill.
"if you take away Rose's scoring, what else does he do that makes him a real good player" --quincey hodges
I don't only see what I want to see, I see what you wrote. He is a very good passer, and again, his ability to beat his opponent off the dribble allows him to either attack the rim or kick it out. I am not knocking Rondo. I just like Rose better as a player right now and way more in years to come.
yeah that explosive comment is not helpin our arguement buddy..lol...i just think rondo is a better rebounder then rose but not by much...rondo is a better disbutor you def got that right...both ave same amount of turnovers...but rondo is a better defender for now...but he is also more easy to defend cuz the dude cant shoot which makes him a liablity...plus his horrible free throw percentage....and you know wat rose will give you more scoring can attact with contact better better mid range and will not fail you in the cruntch time...
rondo is a better passer. thats not even debateable. when kg was out last year and chi and boston went to the wire in that first round those teams were pretty evenly matched werent they?..i would say so with the record overtimes and the margin of victory. rondo was making big baby look like a allstar. and ray allen wasnt playing nearly as great at ben gordan. and paul was playing ok. good passer will rack up assist wheather they are on a good or bad team because they have the ability to get a player the ball in a good position to score which is what rondo does. and you said crossover not ability to get to the rack. now if we are talking about that rondo has that because almost all his points are from him getting past people and getting to the rack right?..he does that more then rose wouldnt you say?..rose gets to the rack but he also hits midrange jumpers on the regular. rondo goes all the way to the rack the majority of the time going past any and every one and finishing over big men. im glad you brought that up because that actually helps rondos case
Oh and Quincey, the Lakers happen to have Pau Gasol, Odom, Artest, Bynum,etc. That team should be able to win games without Kobe.
i know that. my point is you cant base how bad a team will do without a player on how much better one player is compared to another . just because kobes team can make the playoffs without him doesnt make him any less of a player right? and no one knows how good or bad a team will be without a player so all that is guess work. no one expected houston to be as good without yao or sac to win the games they did without kevin.martin
imo id take Rose better defender, better scorer, playmaking is close Rondos assists are definitely a big part of their system although he has shown he can create pretty well, and last of all Rose can carry a team and is a better free throw shooter which is huge in the clutch.
They are different players. There really cant be a comparison to who is better. They are different point guards.
I've never been a huge Rondo fan, but he is a great role player at the point guard position. He seems like a more old school version of what the point guard was, pass first, shoot second. Rondo isnt a ball dominant guy, he can be an effective player without the ball in his hands. He is a very solid defender, but to say he's a lockdown player is a stretch (there are no lockdown players anymore). Rondo is in a perfect situation in Boston right now because he doesnt have to control the ball, shoot 20 times a game, or be the number 1 guy. Boston really doesnt have a defined number 1 option, they all are able to score in the flow of the offense. Rondo is a really solid player who's got an amazing craftiness about him. He's not a number 1 scoring option, but like I said earlier, point guards usually arent the number one option for winning teams.
Rose on the other hand is alot different player than Rondo. He's a more offensive minded player. Some of that is because he has to be with the Bulls roster, and some of that is the style of basketball he has always played in. He is a scoring point guard. He is at his best when he can run pick and roll, get into the lane and either score, get the FT line or kick to shooters. Plain and simple. He is in a good situation schematically with the Bulls right now, he wouldnt be a great fit with Boston because it is a more team oriented style. Rose is alot more current NBA style point guard which is pick and roll, isolations, drive and kick kind of basketball. And he's one of the best at it.
Why waste time arguing about who is better? Its really impossible to say because both are in systems that maximize their abilities. And they are both playing at a very high level.
better defender?..everyone knows rose defense isnt that good. its better then last year but its still not that good. its common knowledge that rondo is one of the best (if not the best) defensive pg in the nba, not rose. and carry a team?..lets not make it seem like rose's teammates are just god awful. he has some damn good players on that team. its not like lebrons cast or the nets now. carrying a team would be if his scoring was a good 6points higher while doing alot more then he does
I think Rondo is the better player. Rose scores more, but he's the only legit "scorer" on his team. He's literally not better at anything else. It's arguable that he's not even a better scorer than Rondo, because Rondo scores one Rose's when one of the other "Big 3" guys are hurt/don't step up etc...
Rondo is the best defensive PG in the NBA IMO, as he plays great on-ball D and he's a big threat in passing lanes as well (League-Leader in Stls/pg). Rose isn't a very good defender at all (other than pressuring the ball), even though he definitely can be in the future.
Rondo is much better at getting guys the ball in scoring position, hence why his assists numbers are so much higher than Rose's. He's capable of making any kind of pass an NBA PG needs to make, sometimes in spectacular fashion. He's not turnover prone either for as fast as he plays or as much as he handles the ball. He averages .1 more turnovers than Rose and 4 more assists. He's a better decision maker and passer SUBSTANTIALLY.
I say the only thing Rose does better is score. Neither one shoots well, especially from 3, but Rondo even shoots 3's better. That's saying something because that's what Rondo's most known for being terrible at. Rondo is better IMO
you are tryna tell me that rondo is better at driving at the rim then rose....just because rose has a better knack at scoring the ball in different ways doesnt mean rondo can drive better..i mean dude has no choice cuz he doesnt know any other way off keepin the defense on him....aight you know wat lets say thats a wash they can both drive as easily...but you still didnt comment on the part of how this guy plays scared in the 4th and doesnt want to shoot....and cant shoot those free throws so you can hack a rondo if a team wanted...that i think is pathetic really when your point guard thats your best player on default cuz your guys are all injured cant shoot free throws
I am done with this. I will just say that Rondo is the better point guard and Rose is turning into more of a combo guard. I am biased because I am from Chicago and have watched Rose since high school. He has always been the leader of every team he has been on and has excelled at it. Right now, I am happy that the Bulls have him and the kid can be an all-star point or shooting guard if he wanted.
I think people also look at the team Rondo is on. I think if Chris Paul or Deron Williams was on that Celtics team, they would be even a bit better. I like Rondo alot (one of my favorite players) but if he could consistently stroke that J, team would be forced to focus on his O game as well which would help open up things more for Ray, Paul, and KG. That being said he still is a hell of a player who goes both ways.
i dont feel like reading all the comments, but im not putting rondo down, he is a terrific pg. But if it were me, and I had a choice between rondo and rose to run this celtics team, i would pick rose. I think rose would still get atleast 18 and his assist would go from 6 to 8. Thats my opinion, I dont know if Rondo or even Rose for that matter are top 5 right now, but if you were starting a team they would be in the top 5 pgs taken.
Rondo is better at everything, except scoring as of right now... Going forward though, I'm taking Rose.
It's not a knock on Rose that Rondo is better right now... I mean, Rondo played two seasons at Kentucky and is now in his 4th NBA season. He's improved tremendously since KG and Allen joined the team. This is only Rose's 2nd season in the L. He'd be a junior in college this season. He's going to get so much better! Pair him up with an All-Star caliber teammate and Rose will be the 3rd best point guard in the NBA by the end of next season. Rose's ceiling is so much higher than Rondo's... Rondo was a nobody before KG and Allen joined the team...
Another thing I want to talk about is Rondo's defense... He's good at stealing the ball and playing the passing lanes, but his on ball defense is overrated. He has poor fundamentals and doesn't square his man up... That's why he gets beat off the dribble by quicker guards. I think Rose could even be a better defender than Rondo in due time.
rondo scared to shoot the ball in the fourth???..lol..i dont think i need to even comment on that. i hear what some of ya'll are saying about rose but not one person has given any concrete proof of why rose is considered better right now. i heard " because he's more athletic" and because he has a better crossover and because his team would be worst without him. only solid thing ive heard is that rose is a better scorer and thats it. its pretty clear rondo is a better defender, passer, and just all around player. i cant say hes gonna be better int he future because rose has more potential because he's younger and more athletic. but remember as rose gets better each year so will rondo. as roses jumper gets better so will rondos. now if both end up with equal skills then rose will have the edge because of his athletic ability. i have a question though...what has rose done much better this year then last year?. i can see him scoring more but when you take gordan off the team i expect almost everyone to score more
i would take rose. You guys say all he does is score more like that is some small thing. Rose can take over a game offensively, rondo cant'. Defenses go under screens and help off rondo and stay home with other guys on rondo, with rose he has to be the defense's first priority, you can't play off him. Rose keeps teams on their heels by constantly having the ability to attack and get into the lane. This not only mean more points for rose, but it also leads to more open looks for teammates and second chance opportunities for bigs. There are numerous games where rondo just sorta fades into the background and you can't tell he is even having much of an impact. The celtics barely beat the kings last night, and rondo didn't make any big plays down the stretch when the team needed them. Last week, Darren Collison scored 13 straight points in the last 6 minutes of the game and took over for the hornets on rondo and led his team to victory. Rondo didn't make plays on either end of the court. I see those type of stretches in games all the time for rondo.
Teams don't go underneath screens on Rose? Trust me, they do. Teams do not play off of Rondo either. He is an All-Star player who gets to the rim with defenses dropping back. That is a testament to how well he gets to the rim. Rondo can get to the rim just as well as Rose. Rondo can score just as much as Rose, but he doesn't have to. He's shown it. When Garnett was out last year he did it. Whenever someone in the Big 3 was ineffective offensively, he shows it. The guy can be just as good a scorer as Rose if he had the lack of scorers Rose does.
rondo can not be just as good a scorer as rose, no way. He is never the main priority on defense for other teams and rose is the number one priority. No way is rondo just as good a scorer. And he proved it? he played great without KG, but he wasn't dropping 20 a game or nothing.
youre right llperez22. rondo didnt take over games in the playoffs against the bulls last year when he put up a triple double. of course rose has to show he can take over games more because they dont win if he doesnt. would be the same case if rondo was with the bulls. he would have to score more. rondo has shown he can score more if he has to which he doesnt. and really you go by that one game where collins did that to prove youre point?..do i really have to go and put up stats where a player has scored on rose and beat the bulls?...i dont think i do because it would be pointless and wouldnt prove anything
i never said he didn't take over those games in the playoffs. Iggy said he was just as good a scorer and i said he wasn't just as good a scorer based on putting triple doubles there is a difference between taking over games and proving you are a better scorer. And i didn't go by one game. I went by a couple games in the last week and said i see those type of performances from him on a regular basis.
He can be a better scorer than Rose, he has the same weaknesses. Rose is just a slightly better mid-range player. I think Rondo's better and could do all the exact same stuff Rose does, except with more assists, steals, rebounds, and scoring with more efficiency.
well if you are leading youre team in scoreing of course youre the main priority. if rose was on boston he wouldnt be the main priority either so im not understanding youre point. you do know rondo was averaging 19.4ppg in that playoff series right?..you say he cant score like rose well i can come back saying he cant rebound pass or defended like rondo. how many triple doubles has rose had?..whos had more double digit rebounds or assist?.whos had more steals?..i mean if we went that route then thats 3-1 in favor or rondo. and you do kow rose is averaging 19.8 his self right? rondo impacts the game in more ways then rose clearly
well, i said i feel rose is better then rondo and i would have left my argument at that since i can fully see how others would disagree with that opinion. However, i can not agree with or see any way someone could argue that rondo is just as good a scorer. So i never argued against rondo' defense, or his passing or whether or not he took over that series with the bulls. I just said that he did not in 7 games where he averaged 19 points prove he was just as good a scorer.
I thnik rondo is an overrated player to be honest. I've felt that way for a long time. I started give him more props this year for making the all-star team, but in my book, i would take both rose and westrbook over him if i was starting a team today. If rose and rondo swithed places today, i think the celtics become a better team and the bulls a worse team. The celtics are getting old and they need rondo more now then ever to step up and lead them. If he is a top 3 or 4 pg like you guys think, then he should have no problem doing that. So i guess we'll see soon enough if he is overrated or not.
well he clearly isnt overrated thats for sure.. thats not even a question. i can understand if rondo was putting up his numbers on a team that isnt a set playoff team or a team thats fighting to get in the playoffs. as far as if they switched teams all that is is if's we can go back and forth saying if this guy was on that team and that guy on this team. what we can go by is reality and what the players are doing on the team they are on, to be honest is it really saying much if youre in the 8th spot in the east and fighting for that spot with the bucks?
Sure I could say he is overrated. I've heard people on here say he is the third best pg in the league. If the 2006 draft was done over, rondo would go before roy. Rondo could put 20+ a night if he had his own team and wasn't playing with the big 3.
Those are pretty lofty arguments for a guy who had to fight just to get 10 mill per from his own team. So yeah, based on those opinions i think he is overrated.
so he's overrated because his team is cheap?..ooook
Rondo is not overrated at all. He's actually underrated. If you think he isn't better than Rose and especially Westbrook you are severely underrating him.