Chicago Bulls in trouble
The Bulls are getting blown out. They are losing by twenty something points to to the Magic.
Kirk Hinrich is shooting bricks like usual.
Tyrus Thomas is outplaying Taj Gibson like he usually does. Have I convinced some of you now that Tyrus should be starting instead of Taj?
Derrick Rose left early in the 1st Quarter....Hip Injury I think. I hope it isn't serious.
When your playing a team that has Dwight Howard having Noah out hurts. Miller is a perimeter center and Gibson and Thomas are probably about 225 pounds. Also, Salmons is following up a promising 21 point performance with a 4-11 from the feild game. I too hope Rose is okay.
the bulls werent that good to begin with so this doesnt suprise me
they lack a team identity, Rose going off on a tear helped bring them back up to .500, but aside from Rose, Noah, and Deng no one has exactly been a model of consistancy, Hinrich and Salmons have 25 one game and 4 the next while shooting 25%
My worst nightmare has freakin come true... Can I shout explicit content? This BS... Just when you thought Derrick Rose is going to be alright going into the All-Star Break, he bruised his hip... Now, I don't know if the injury's serious or what but that's gotta be a concern for me and for any die hard Bulls fan... I don't want to see him end up like Jameer Nelson last year where he missed the All-star game due to an injury that occurred a week prior to the freakin' event... This is the kind of thing I was hoping NOT to happen for Rose... Gaddemet!
Tyrus Thomas should be but for some reason they aren't high on him.
for some reason?..i think the reason is obvious
Tyrus will be traded in a couple of days, God willing, and he will then become some other teams' cancer. Heels, do you actually ever watch the Bulls play or just look at the boxscore? The guy simply doesn't understand the team concept. The other night I watched him throw up a 12ft running hook, terrible. He is just too awkward when the ball is in his hands, think of Rodman.
The Bulls should shoulder some of the blame for the way he has been handled but he doesn't help the situation by pouting and going off on tirades. You watch Noah when he is on the bench and he is always laughing and cheering his teammates on. Tyrus just sits there stoic and blank faced. Let him go and try to 'find himself' on some other team.
I will never give up on this arguement!
You're damn right! No need to state it...LOL
lol...some of the shots he takesmake me wonder what is going through his head. if he would just play ball and stop tryna prove how good of a jump shooter he is and shut his mouth he could be a better player
^ did you stick your tongue out after that response? That's all you got?
DanEboy- now you know I can do a lot better than that. I do watch the Bulls play. I don't watch them as often as I would like though. I watch more college ball at this time of the year. I didn't watch the game tonight but it doesn't take a genius to see this:
The Bulls lost by 20.
Is it a coincidence that when Tyrus was in the game the Bulls were -5. When Taj Gibson was in the game the Bulls were -19. ???
Taj Gibson 0-5, 6 rebounds, 3 fouls, 0 points
Tyrus Thomas 7-12, 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 2 fouls, 16 points
Yes I know Tyrus takes too many jumpshots, takes some bad shots (not as many as people say...stop exaggerating), & throws the random terrible pass. Look at all the good things he does though for once in all you hater's lives please.
yeah hes better but taj doesnt give you all the headachs and plays within the offense. unless a player is a big difference maker then coaches just dont wanna deal with the player. it has nothing to do with hating since you dont see a bunch of teams lining up to trade for him nor are teams willing to give up real good players for him...then theres the inconsitantcy. he will have those numbers now but then the next game he will put up 5 while trying to score out side of the offense
^ I actually agree with Quincey word for word. Why are they not getting any offers for him?? This game means nothing, Tyrus did that in garbage time when they were getting blown out. I don't hear anyone else agreeing with you Heels.
Taj is not the answer at the 4 but he understands the game. He has had a rough couple of games lately but he is better for the team than TT. I can't stand guys who think they should get by on talent alone.
Heels, you said that you coached. If you had a kid who had all the talent in the world but yelled at you and had a piss poor attitude would you start him? You would be a coward of a coach if you did.
I know you met him once and he seemed like a cool guy, but once doesn't make a man.
The Bulls are 9-15 without Tyrus Thomas.
The Bulls are 16-11 with Tyrus playing.
When Tyrus & Taj play the same amount of minutes...:
Tyrus averages more points, blocks, rebounds, steals, assists, less fouls, a higher A/TO ratio.
Tyrus has a significantly higher PER than Gibson.
You generally win games by playing efficiently.
A lot of Bulls' fans need to put their personal feelings towards Tyrus Thomas aside & look at the facts. The Bulls are better when Tyrus plays. Tyrus Thomas is better than Taj Gibson. End of story.
I'm finished for good talking about this.
The Bulls are 9-15 without Tyrus Thomas.
The Bulls are 16-11 with Tyrus playing.
Come on, lol ,thats skewed. They started winning because of Rose getting healthy. I say Thomas had little to no impact on that big a difference in the win column
im not a bulls fans and i dont like one player over the other it sounds like you need to put youre bias toward thomas aside. his attitude hurts him more then anything. you cant be a cancer type player unless you are dominating on the court
hes putting up 8pts a 6reb the same a taj who is a rookie who doesnt cause as much of a headach. and this is his 3rd or 4th year
^ Thank you...Those numbers are seriously skewed. Heels, you are clearly just a numbers guy. Do you have a stat for headaches caused or times looking lost on the court? I have never heard one Bulls player stick up for him or take his side. That is all the proof I need.
Excuses excsuses excusess....I'm tired of hearing them.
quincey get real man, you think I am biased because I simply said Tyrus is better than Taj & he deserves to be starting? Quincey you already said yourself in this post that Tyrus is better than Taj! Hello..r u bi-polar? One second you agreed with me, the next second you claim I am bias. This is ludicrous. Now if I said Tyrus is better than Bosh or Amare then sure that would be biased but I haven't said that.
Nobody knows how many headaches he has caused. So bringing that up is irrelevant. If that is all you got than your argument is bogus.
So basically I'm hearing because you all THINK Tyrus has a poor attitude & is a headache that means he is a bad player? Get real. You act like you know him personally.
When Perkins pushed Noah in the playoffs last season who was the only player to speak up & take up for Noah?...Tyrus Thomas
You can't say Tyrus is inconsistent & that Gibson is consistent. That makes zero sense. You are making yourself look silly. They shoot about the same % & take about the same # of shots per game. I know Tyrus takes too many jumpshots & occasionally throws up some crazy fantasy shot but he still shoots 47% FG which is pretty good. Taj Gibson definitely doesn't bring it every night.
You can say I am just a numbers guy all you want but the #'s support my argument.
Now to the problem with the coach. I imagine the argument was about playing time. Sometimes you have to yell at the coach to get your point across. It shouldn't be that big of a deal. He got suspended one game...wow. Pull your panties up Coach...lets move on.
DanEboy- You say that no player ever sticks up for Tyrus or supports him & that is all the proof you need. There isn't any proof. I'll give you some proof..Quotes from Derrick Rose & Salmons talking about Tryus Thomas from the Chicago Tribune:
Guard Derrick Rose said Thomas apologized to teammates in the direct aftermath of the incident Friday in Atlanta and that it's in the past with the focus strictly on winning games.
"Everybody talks to him," Rose said. "People handle stuff certain ways. It seems he's on the right path. And we're going to keep leading him that way. We need him for rebounding and blocking shots."
"He's so athletic that he affects the game when he's engaged," John Salmons said. "He gets his hands on balls, rebounds, puts back shots. When he masters that, he really helps us."
By the way Derrick Rose x-rays came back negative...Good News
The trade argument thing is ridiculous..you have to be kidding me. Don't waster your time typing that weak stuff. Don't say stuff you can't back up. Read the article below:
After the Chicago Bulls suspended forward Tyrus Thomas for losing his temper with coach Vinny Del Negro, an interesting thing happened: More teams started calling the franchise’s front office wanting to talk about a trade.
Everyone understood Chicago executives are now determined to move Thomas, and a clear price has been established for suitors: Expiring contracts and a 2010 or future first-round draft pick, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. The Bulls are also exploring ways to package Thomas with guard Kirk Hinrich to free themselves of his contract.
The Charlotte Bobcats bid Acie Law, Flip Murray and their 2010 first-round pick, a league executive said. The Bobcats have been searching for a long, athletic forward like Thomas, the fourth pick in the 2007 draft, and are expected to be aggressive pursuers. Portland Trail Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard made an offer they’ll have to improve upon to be taken seriously – one of his expiring contracts (Steve Blake orTravis Outlaw) and two future second-round draft picks.
The New York Knicks, Sacramento Kings, San Antonio Spurs, Denver Nuggets and New Orleans Hornets are among the multiple teams who’ve spoken to Chicago about Thomas. The Bulls are telling people that they have several teams willing to offer first-round picks – in 2010 or beyond.
Bulls management is telling teams they expect to take the bidding right to the Feb. 18 deadline. The Bulls want to avoid the possibility of Thomas accepting a $6.2 million qualifying offer on the eve of this summer’s free agency, which would deliver a major dent to their salary-cap space. Thomas, 23, will be a restricted free agent this summer.
8 hours, 28 minutes ago
Here is a little more you can chew on: Read the article below:
Thomas was drafted as a project by the Bulls in 2006, but he was never treated like a project. Instead, he was treated like some four-year college starter that had been on CBS too many times to mention, and someone who was used to the grind. Thomas wasn't used to the grind. He was a basketball scrub until his late teens. He only had one year of slapping the backboards at LSU. He was ready, but he wasn't ready.
The Bulls not only acted as if he was ready, but he was also added to the Chicago roster at the start of Scott Skiles' weird passive-aggressive phase. When Skiles - who often seems like a perfect mix of the best qualities of Larry Brown and Don Nelson - started utilizing the worst qualities of Larry Brown and Don Nelson. The strange rotations. The stubbornness. The attention to obsession, rather than detail.
Thomas played less than a year and a half under Skiles, but it may have well been two years. Because Skiles was replaced on an interim basis by Jim Boylan, a pointless move in retrospect, because Boylan was Skiles' number two, and he promptly spent the entirety of his obviously-interim gig taking out Skiles' indirect frustrations with certain players out on the kids who had wronged Boylan's buddy the most.
So Thomas would leave the game, for long stretches, for no apparent reason. And, just as much, he would stay in the game for no apparent reason. Almost to a night, the good play would go unrewarded, and the bad play would go unacknowledged. How in the hell was this kid, this man, supposed to learn?
By Kelly Dwyer Yahoo Sports
Sometimes a personality conflict can taint a coach's perspective of what's really in the best interest of the team...
This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in the past few days because guys on both sides of the argument are making solid points.
I remember when Tyrus Thomas was in college and dominated the NCAA playoffs. I also think it's fair to say that despite that domination, everybody knew he was an NBA project with tons of potential. Don't laugh, but in some ways his situation reminds me of Joe Alexander, another sky walker who was drafted as a project, but left out in the cold when he didn't turn into an immediate impact player.
One of the team components I always talk about is "team chemistry" because I've seen many physically talented teams over the years fail big time because they had inner turmoil and conflict. I'm not a member of the Bulls so I don't know if Thomas was and is being treated unfairly, or if his problems stem from immaturity.
The one thing that stands out as obvious is the fact that he's worn out his welcome in Chicago and needs a fresh start. It will be interesting to see what kind of interest the Bulls receive from other teams.
I'm sorry Gatorheels, but Tyrus Thomas has been a bust. The Bulls should've NEVER traded Lamarcus Aldridge.
I used to be a fan of Thomas at LSU... I have a friend who used to be the manager at Alabama and I actually flew down to Alabama during finals week just to watch him play. He just hasn't shown me anything in the NBA though. He's doing the same things he did in college. He still has that same immature attitude too. Still playing out of control.
Tyrus has more talent than Taj, but I think Taj is a better fit for the team. He understands his role and is solid. He's not the long term answer at power forward, but he's solid for right now.
I read all of the articles above....the guy is still a joke and will be traded. I can't wait for this to happen.
I couldn't care less what Salmons has to say. The guy is bitter about his playing time as well. Derrick Rose is too nice of a kid to say anything negative to the press.
The Cubs had Bradley, a distraction just like Tyrus. No one said anything to throw him under the bus. As soon as they traded him, players said they were relieved that he was gone and the tension was out of the locker room. This is the same situation except Tyrus is not as much of an a@@hole as Bradley.
Sometimes players just don't fit an organization and the direction they are going as a team. Tyrus is one of those players.
I also said in an earlier post that the Bulls should shoulder some of the blame for throwing him in the mix too soon. Skiles is and was a bad coach whose players shut down on him after time. I hope Tyrus does find a team that he fits and has a good NBA career. It just isn't going to happen here and he needs to go.
And Kelly Dwyer is a terrible writer.
hopefuly salmons could be traded away for expiring contracts or a pick. or just maybe....he walks away at the end of the season..i don't see it happening. Bulls could have some nice salary space this summer.
rtbt- Joe Alexander has done absolutely nothing since he has been in the league. Alexander has never contributed to a team.
I understand Tyrus Thomas has not lived up to his potential. Of course the Bulls should've kept Aldridge.
Tezo...Nope you can't say he has been a bust. That just isn't true. Is Oden a bust? He was drafted over Durant. Same type of thing.
I'm gong back to the #'s right quick regardless if you all like it or not...Tyrus Thomas has a PER that is above average for an NBA player! That doesn't mean everything but that does mean he is producing when he sees the court. There are much much worse players in the league than Tyrus Thomas.
I mean if you want to start naming busts you have to mention these names way before you ever talk about Tyrus Thomas: Joe Alexander, Julian Wright, Adam Morrison, Saer Sene, Shelden Williams!
All I've read in this whole post is a bunch of lame excuses & opinions with nothing to support them.
I think you misunderstood what I said about Joe Alexander. Before I explain, let me say that it's obvious Alexander's done absolutely nothing since he's been in the league.
I made reference to him for a couple of reasons.
1. Alexander is also a great leaper who was drafted as a project based upon what he did in the NCAA tournament.
2. The other reason I brought him up is it sounds as if he experienced something similar to the kind of treatment T. Thomas apparently received in Chicago. For whatever reason, Scott Skiles doesn't like Alexander. Maybe it's personal, maybe it's because he doesn't think Alexander is good enough to play in the league, or maybe it's combination of both.
It seems as if Scott Skiles is the common denominator in both the Tyrus Thomas and Joe Alexander scenarios, both of whom were drafted as projects. GatorHeels, let me make this clear. I am in no way claiming Alexander is as good as Thomas, it's just that both of them have similar experiences with the very same coach.
^ I understand what you are saying.
The difference is Joe Alexander hasn't proved that he deserves to be playing....at least not yet. Tyrus Thomas has proved to be an above average pro.
I completely agree with what you said above, just wanted to make sure you knew why I brought up Alexander's name in the same thread about T. Thomas.
Again Heels, numbers lie. Zach Randolph is a perfect example of this. He is putting up the same 20-10 as he did when he was with the Blazers and Knicks yet this year is his first all star appearance. The difference now is that he is doing it within the flow of the game and team.
You can keep bringing up his PER and the talent he has. I will state this again and again, the numbers mean absolutely nothing to me in this debate. This is not about his stats; it is about his attitude and chemistry with the team.
I will never say that he was a bust. The situation hasn't worked out and it is time for the Bulls to cut the cord.
If all I have are lame excuses and unsupported opinions, why are the Bulls shopping him so desperately?
DanEboy, I thought that was a great analysis of stats and how they apply to Zach Randolph.
The Bulls are shopping him because he has an expiring contract! Chicago knows they can't resign him for cheap... They want to have cap room to be able to sign D Wade or Bosh! Any team would rather have Bosh or Wade than Tyrus Thomas. Tyrus doesn't get along with the coach. Those are the reasons they are shopping him. Not because he isn't a good player. Plus if he wasn't good they wouldn't have all those teams trying to trade for him.
The Zach Randolph thing is a joke. You want to bring up the All-Star game? Haha. Iverson is an all-star. T-Mac is an all-star.
Did it occur to you that all those teams Randolph played on in the past were terrible. They had losing records. The Grizzlies have a winning record. Players that play for the good teams generally get more recognition.
Also name the 2 best players right now on the following teams: Grizzlies, Bulls, Hawks, TWolves, Cavs. I'll just use these as examples. Then I will show you something.
You honestly believe that the reason they are trying to trade him is because of an expiring contract? If they thought he was so good they would offer him an extension. You are making my point for me Heels, he doesn't fit into their long term plans, which has been my point all along. He seems to be an immature kid who can't take his lumps.
Iverson and T-mac got voted in by the fans so that arguement doesn't hold up. Randolph was always perceived as an overrated player who just went out and got his with no regard for teamball. He found the right fit and is playing team ball, and yes, the Grizzlies are winning. Maybe that has something to do with that. Those team records you threw out when Tyrus was and wasn't in the game don't tell the whole story. Rose was injured early on and it doesn't show who else was or wasn't playing in those games. I am from here and watch almost every game. His presence doesn't affect the outcome of games the way you think they do.
Let Tyrus go and find the right fit for himself somewhere else. The Bulls management seems to agree with me.
I'm not making your point. If they offer him an extension the chances of getting Wade &or Bosh become much less likely.
The All-Star really doesn't have anything to do with this. Like I said players for good teams get the recognition.
"He seems to be an immature kid who can't take his lumps."
^ Haha you don't know him
I couldn't care less what you say
That is why I said 'seems'. If I knew him I would have left that word out. And it is couldn't care less, not could care less.
If Tyrus had lived up to his potential they wouldn't need to go after a low post presence like Bosh.
The truth always lies in the middle. Both sides screwed up this whole thing. They will go their seperate ways and the Bulls will be a better team for it. Somehow this team is right at .500. I watched a line up of Hinrich, Devin Brown, Salmons, Deng, and Richards play the other night. This team is not that good and really shouldn't be around .500.
Thank God for the 16 wins Tyrus is responsible for. What are we going to do without him???
^ Good luck Portland!
i never desputed him being more talented. i say youre biased because you cant see whats plan as day, why hes not getting the minbutes you think he should be getting. i look at it objectively because im not a bulls fan and dont favor one or the other. you on the other hand favor thomas and defend him tooth and nail. which is why i say you're biased
"And it is couldn't care less, not could care less." Thanks for the correction....I'll edit that.
"If Tyrus had lived up to his potential they wouldn't need to go after a low post presence like Bosh."....That is true.
I'm sure Tyrus will continue to outplay Taj Gibson.
I'm pretty sure Tyrus will be traded soon. I think Portland would be a good fit.
When the Bulls make the playoffs (if they do) & get swept (without Tyrus Thomas)..I don't want to hear any crying.
We just have to agree to disagree about this.
Believe me, I will not cry if the Bulls get swept in the playoffs. Like I said, they aren't a very good team right now. I am a stubborn person who can argue this forever. You seem to be too.
I will agree to agree to disagree about this disagreement.
its basically like this.. untill he proves other wise there isnt nothing to really talk about. cant go by per because the game isnt player by per. gotta go by what you are doing for me now and as of right now hes doesnt do much more then the rookie
See Quincey you should've just stayed quiet. You continue to slip up haha
" gotta go by what you are doing for me now and as of right now hes doesnt do much more then the rookie"
^ The truth is if you want to speak about right now lets look at the last 5 games:
Taj Gibson 9-28 FG, 2 steals, 5 blocks, 27 rebounds, 3 assists, 23 points, 5 turnovers, 17 fouls
Tyrus Thomas 19-29, 6 steals, 2 blocks, 23 rebounds, 5 assists, 41 points, 7 turnovers, 5 fouls
I would say that favors Tyrus. What makes things even more lopsided is that Tyrus has only played in 4 of the last 5 games. Taj has played in all 5. I'm not going to get into the chemistry thing because that can't be proved.
By the way Tyrus has been getting more playing time than Taj the last 2 games. So either the coach is coming to his senses or they are just trying to show other teams what he can do & trade him.
I really do think the Bulls would be better if their starting lineup was Rose, Salmons, Deng, Tyrus, Noah
I like Hinirch & Taj coming off the bench. That is just my opinion though.
& Back to something I said earlier..I want somebody to name the 2 best players for each of these teams: Cavs, Grizzlies, TWolves, Bulls, & Hawks. This isn't a trick question by that way. I just wanted to hear some opinions. As well as change the topic because this Tyrus Thomas talk is getting old.
meaning this year..over all... all games up to this point...does that clear it up for ya?
not last year or the year before or a couple games here or there
nowmeaning this year..ive said that plenty of time sin different chats. if teams went by now now how many guys who shouldnt be starting would start?...gotta be able to read between the lines and not look at everything at face value
I feel like this IS a trick question but I will answer. These are the guys I feel are the best 2 on each team as of today, not potential like the great Tyrus Thomas.
Rose- The unquestioned leader of the team and an all-star
Noah- 2nd in the league in rebounding and the ultimate high energy, TEAM player.
Varejao- Doesn't have the stats, but stats are overrated. This guy plays great defense and is like Noah in intensity.
Joe Johnson- Stat leader and their leader
Josh Smith- Mr do everything.
Love- Comes off the bench to avg 15-10. Doesn't yell at his coach for not starting
Jefferson- 18-10 doesn't seem to get enough credit for his game.
Gay-20-6. One of the top SF in the game
Gasol- A legit 7'1 center who avg 15-10 are hard to come by. Is only going to get better
And Taj is playing through plantar fasciitis which has clearly been bothering him lately.
LeBron has the highest PER on the Cavs. Varejao? haha really..I hate Varejao. He has the 4th highest PER on the team. Joe Johnson & Josh Smith have the two highest PERs for the Hawks. Al Jefferson & Kevin Love have the 2 highest PERs for the TWolves. Rose & Noah have the 2 highest PERs for the Bulls. Your boy Zach Randolph actually has the highest PER for Memphis but Gasol is 2nd on the team, & Gay is 3rd. Overall you did an excellent job....
I'm not just talking about Tyrus either. I'm talking about when judging any player...you have to give PER some credibility. The better players have higher PERs. I know it doesn't mean everything but you can't say it means nothing.
Absolutely....I'm sure the injury has affected Taj.
Nobody really knows if Tyrus is a cancer on that team. I will say this however, if he is it will really hurt his career. Look at one of my favorite players, Rashad McCants, he has been blackballed from the nba now. Mainly because he was a total headcase & must have been a very poor character in the locker rooms. McCants is better than a lot of players currently on an nba team. Tyrus better get his act together if he really is being a knucklehead. I hate to see talented players not be successful.
I just like Noah & Tyrus playing alongside each other. I hate to see Tyrus go to another team but maybe he will find a better fit.
i dont believe in the per to be honest. i berlieve in what a player produces. i can look at a guy who plays 5 min a game and averages 4 points per game and then look at his per and you would think that he would lead the leauge in scoring if he players 30min a game. per is just what you think the player will average if given more mimutes.it doesnt take into account if the player will get more tired or faces better defense. all it does is assumes the player could continue to put up more numbers when given more minutes but thats no a for sure thing
^ Haha Wow Quincey....you have no idea what you are talking about
If you believe in what a player produces than you should believe in PER.
PER= Player Efficiency Rating
nope..i think its alot more important to watch a player play then to look at that and base everything on that. the cavs didnt draft lebron because they looked at his efficancy rating they drafted him by watching him play, any scout wiould rather watch a guy play over just looking at eff rating if you had to pick one over the other. you know david lee is the 5th most eff player in the nba? would you take him over dirk?...you know kobe is 15th?..would you take 14 other guys ahea dof kobe? t.evans is 40..troy murphey is 34..would you take troy over evans?..the list goes on and on. i bet if you sat and watched each game though you forget all about eff and pick kobe over lee eavans over troy
I don't like Tyrus' game overall.
Right now, this team needs to make a shake up. I think they should go add Kevin Martin.
now its gets even worst when you do per48..lets take a look
marcus camby is ahead of dirk
love lee and boozer are ahead of durant
samuel dalembert, noah, lee ahead of kobe
do you know where thomas ranks among fowards with this if you still wanna put stock in it?..32ndst
craig smith is ahead of paul peirce...