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Avery Bradley

wenich
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Avery Bradley

I don't understand what people see in this guy that he is a top 15 pick in this years draft according to this site. IMO he is a 6"2 inch 3 man, I personally don't see him having any value at the NBA level. I have watched Texas play at least 7 times so far this year and there has not been 1 game where I watched him and thought he's even close to an elite college player. I would take Lance Stephenson over him without question, I know this site has had Lance in the second round all year, but I don't think he falls out of the late 1st, it's obvious his game translates much better to the NBA than to College, especially the situation he's in at Cincy.


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I agree to a sense. Bradley

I agree to a sense.

Bradley had about 5 really good games that I have seen. But I don't wanna take him with no PG experience to learn on the fly. Russell Westbrook played some PG in his freshman(backup) and sophomore year (actually started 14 games at PG if im correct)

Lance is a 2nd rounder right now. He needs another season. He has the body and that drive but I don't think he's a top 20 pick. I think he needs either a good end of the season or a monster NCAA or NIT tourney games to be vaulted into the 1st round.

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Depends on who is in the lottery

I see the Bucks taking him either way. He's got Jason Terry potential in my mind. More stroke than Ellis but not as quick. I dont see him as a point in the NBA

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I agree with literally

I agree with literally everything you said wenich...Avery Bradley would be a defensive-minded role playing in the NBA. He's essentially Royal Ivey right now..He has the ability to get better if he polishes his offense, but I don't see him as a PG. He's shown nothin that has proven he can be a PG.

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Agree

I think he's a boobie gibson at best. Don't see any reason why he is ranked so high.

butidonthavemoney
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Bradley

He has potential. He is feisty defensively. He is a willing (though unskilled) passer. He makes a lot of mistakes when he handles the ball, but he can shoot mid-range off the dribble. He has three-point range. His lateral quickness is outstanding. He is a high-character player.

He is very young still, and most of his problems are experience related. That means that all he needs is playing-time to become a better player. He makes mistakes, but I expect him to become a starter in the NBA. Coaches love players like Bradley because they set a good example for the rest of the team.

If Monta Ellis and Eric Gordon can play shooting guard, so can Avery Bradley. Bradley is already a better defender than either one of them.

I would take Bradley in the top 10.

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The fact that Barnes won't

The fact that Barnes won't let him play PG for a Texas team who is playing poorly largely because they're PG's are weak tells me all I need to know about his PG skills. I wouldn't dare take him in the top 10. Eric Gordon and Monta Ellis are, and have always been better scorers than Bradley. Bradley is just a defensive role-player who makes open shots. You can find alot of guys past the top 10 for that.

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Iggy

I disagree. Avery Bradley was a remarkable scorer in high school, and though that doesn't mean he will be a great scorer on the next level, it does show you he possesses scoring skills and intincts. Eric Gordon was every bit as inconsistant of a scorer in college as Avery Bradley is now, and Gordon had to be the number one option while Bradley is more of a role player for a very good (but currently slumping) Texas team.

I said that he could be a shooting guard at the next level. He isn't capable of playing point guard right now, but he can play effectively without the ball.

wenich
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For the first half of his

For the first half of his only season in college before all the Kelvin Sampson shenanigans screwed up the season for IU Eric Gordon was a scoring machine. Coming out of HS he was a top 5 talent and known to be a top flight scorer. There is absolutely no comparison between EG and Avery Bradley. I respect your opinion but what kind of SG can a 6 '2 guy who can not create his own shot be at the next level?

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"For the first half of his

"For the first half of his only season in college before all the Kelvin Sampson shenanigans screwed up the season for IU Eric Gordon was a scoring machine. Coming out of HS he was a top 5 talent and known to be a top flight scorer. There is absolutely no comparison between EG and Avery Bradley. I respect your opinion but what kind of SG can a 6 '2 guy who can not create his own shot be at the next level?"

Dude, you can't be serious...

1. Yes, Eric Gordon was a scoring machine for the first half. I said inconsistant, and inconsistant he was.

2. Eric Gordon was a top-5 talent? Really? Is that true? Well I guess you got me there. Wait a second... AVERY BRADLEY WAS THE NUMBER 1 TALENT!!!!!

3. Avery Bradley was also known as a "top flight scorer". Read the NBADraft.net scouting report I provided in the link below.

Here's the proof if you don't believe me.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espnu100?&season=2009&...

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/avery-bradley

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Oh

Oh, and Avery Bradley can create his own shot. He just isn't a chucker. Which is a good thing. If he wanted to, he could jack up 20 shots a game and score more points, but he has other options. Damion James, Dexter Pittman and a very deep Texas squad.

I wish his teammates would look for him more in this current Texas slump. His game is so unstable though, it's probably an issue with confidence or experience. His team needs him to look to score more right now. It isn't a lack of ability though.

wenich
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I'm very serious, I'm not

I'm very serious, I'm not going by what someone else or some website says his skills are. I am talking strictly about what I have seen watching him all year and I feel he is straight up trash.

butidonthavemoney
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BTW

I'm not his biggest fan, but everybody is selling him short. I know his decision-making is poor and he fumbles a lot of oppurtunities. He isn't currently capable of playing point and his scoring is very inconsistant.

Iggy, I invite you to find me other prospects with Bradley's defensive/shooting ability. I've seen him play a lot, and he is a great catch-and-shoot prospect. He moves his feet remarkably well on defense. He is willing to hit the floor, he makes 41% of his threes, and he has a lot of room to get better. And like I said before, he only needs time/experience to get better at most of his flaws.

Please make me a list. I would love to get a player like Bradley outside of the top-10.

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wenich

OK. Please provide your reasoning. I would like to understand why you think he is straight up trash.

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Jacob Pullen plays great

Jacob Pullen, Tweety Carter, Lawrence Westbrook, Trevon Hughes, Scotty Reynolds, Obi Muenolo are all guys that shoot at least 40% on 3's and play outstanding defense. I ould be STUNNED if any of these players where drafted in the 1st round. How is Bradley so much better than these guys? Should they be top 10 picks too?

I already said he was a good defender and shooter, but that's where it stops. He isn't a good ball-handler for his size, thus is not a true scoring threat. He's a 6'3" shooting guard without elite scoring ability. If your an undersized SG without real scoring ability, why would he stand out in the NBA? All the HS stats be damned...That has nothing to do with anything. Most high major players averaged eye-popping scoring numbers. Alot of those same players don't even pose that big a factor on their college teams.

wenich
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I will concede that he is

I will concede that he is very good defensively, but he has shown me absolutely nothing on the other end. In all the games that I have watched I can't recall 1 time that he did something off the dribble that I remember, to be honest he is basically a non factor in the games that I have seen and if they didn't make such a big deal about him being such an elite recruit I wouldn't even notice him. His vision and his handle seem mediocre at best. IMO his skill set is more equatable to a 6'7 SF than a 6'2 PG. I don't think he has an NBA future unless his game dramatically improves. But obviously I'm in the minority on that thought.

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Iggy

Iggy - You're lucky I haven't scouted any of those players or I would totally refute your argument. But seriously I don't think we are on the same page. I'm saying that Avery Bradley will get better fast and become a scoring threat soon. I think he is on a steep learning curve, because of the skills he already possesses and most of his flaws seem to come from his lack of experience. So I'm under the impression that you think he will be a catch-and-shoot defensive role-player. I think he will be better than that.

EDIT: Pssh, you edited. I'll just take your word for it that they are all as good at defense as Bradley.

Double EDIT: QUIT EDITING!!!

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He has to improve on alot of

He has to improve on alot of things offensively, but I don't ever see him being more than a 4th option scorer in the NBA. Nothing about him is all that special offensively.

What makes him different from a guy like Patrick Beverley? A shooter with good defense, length, and quickness and a SG in PG's body. Beverley was a 2nd round pick last year and he hasn't seen action in an NBA game, with pretty much the same exact physical tools and basketball skills as Bradley.

butidonthavemoney
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Again

Again, I never scouted Beverley. So I can't say why he would be different from Bradley. That doesn't prove you right though.

"All the HS stats be damned...That has nothing to do with anything. Most high major players averaged eye-popping scoring numbers. Alot of those same players don't even pose that big a factor on their college teams."

I mentioned that high school stats don't mean anything, so I don't know why you would feel the need to reiterate this.

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Iggy

I think I'm done with this little debate. You keep bringing up players I am somewhat unfamiliar with and honestly I don't even know where you stand...

You said you agreed with everything wenich said, who said he doesn't see Bradley having any value at the NBA level, and then you said that he is likely a 4th option.

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im gettin in on this

what makes him different than all those players, he is probably the second best athlete at guard besides a kid named John Wall. If you dont believe me, look at his high school videos.

but secondly, I have watched some of his games this year, and the thing im most disappointed with is how he doesnt do anything without the ball. He stands around and watches everyone else play. But I hope barnes lets him loose now that texas is in a slump and see if he can really start making some noise.

butidonthavemoney
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Cue

Enter quinceyhodges...

butidonthavemoney
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Wait...

Wait...

Derrick Favors is an elite athlete. Look at his high school highlights.

Now...

Enter quinceyhodges.

wenich
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you're very big on holding

you're very big on holding people accountable, so he obviously agreed "with everything" I said in a post waaaaaay before I said he was trash. Come on now that was obvious Mr. "I haven't scouted" any player except for Avery Bradley

butidonthavemoney
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?

You said this...

"I personally don't see him having any value at the NBA level."

Please excuse my phrasing. I'll switch it right away.

"Mr. "I haven't scouted" any player except for Avery Bradley"

I really only scout first-rounders. I won't lie and say that I've scouted players I haven't. When I scout, I watch one player for the entire game. I don't watch the ball, I watch one player. It's very time-consuming, and since nobody is paying me, I can't scout everybody. I am very maticulous when I scout.

wenich
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And a 4th option in the NBA

And a 4th option in the NBA basically is trash for someone who you said you would take with a top 10 pick!....with a top 10 pick I don't want the upside of a 4th option.

butidonthavemoney
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Dude

I never said that I thought Bradley could only be a 4th option. I think he can get better.

wenich
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k

k

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Yeah

I was saying that you were focusing on me more than the subject but then I saw your last sentence. I don't know if you edited or if I just didn't read it.

I wasn't calling Iggy out. I respect Iggy, and we have been arguing over stuff like this for a long time. I was simply stating my confusion.

Ron Artest, Paul Millsap, Rajon Rondo, Jameer Nelson, JR Smith, Jason Kidd. Are these guys trash?

wenich
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Not to me.....I guess ur

Not to me.....I guess ur making the point of 4th options? if so well put. So I will clarifly on my side, I don't think Avery Bradley will ever be 1/2 as good as any of those players you just mentioned. I think he is trash lol.

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Avery Bradley

Avery Bradley needs some more time in college...it wouldnt hurt him...the NBA is looking at a lockout for there 2012 season, i could be wrong..so why not stay and gain some experience in the Big 12 conference.....I think alot of these kids are getting a raw deal because we all know that if the NBA wouldnt have put the rule up to where you have to spend a year in college...Bradley, Wall, Cousins and Favors would all have been in the NBA as we speak.
I remember seeing a peice on Bradley narrated by Pat Summeral when in High School..I believe he is going to be a good point guard but he is not a University of Texas PG..he picked the wrong school...with his athletism he is a point guard that can score..he should have went to UCLA where they give guards like Bradley freedom, Barnes is going to try to change his game and mess him up. Bottom line is right now we dont know what type of player he is...we know that he wont step up and take full control of a Texas team that lacks leadership at the guard position.

Rondo is trash for the record....... Anyone can play PG for the Celtics under the age of 30 and suceed. Jameer Nelson is solid the others are all great NBA players.

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Yep

Fair enough. We'll just have to wait until he plays in the NBA...

PS: Whoever took all my points, just want you to know that I own you. You barely made a dent in my mass-collection of pointy-awesomeness. I personally challenge you to take away every single point I have. If you suceed I will be like, "Wow, he proved me wrong." However, I will only think it. It won't say it aloud, and I certainly won't type it.

the lake show
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someof ya'll post are

someof ya'll post are laughable...the one about not showing anything off the dribbleshows who ever said that hasnt watched many games since hes shown many times he can score off the dribble. does anyone know if he can play pg?..nope just like westbrook who didnt show any signs of being a pg in the nba. and who ever said he looks like a 3 man really should just cancel there account. should he go in the draft?..nope hes not ready. he would get drafted because he is good and teams tend to draft off of potential.

powerguard97 you sound very dumb right now with the comment about rondo. not sure why you hate on his skills but he's shown plenty of times how good he is when everyone is healthy and when there best players are hurt. ..its obvious you just hate on the guy..not sure why

butidonthavemoney
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Quincey

Quincey you're late. Where were you when I said Favors was an elite athlete?

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Quincey

Russell Westbrook never was given a chance to play PG because UCLA had an All-American PG in Darren Collison ahead of him. Texas' weakest position is PG, where Dogus Balbay has averaged 4 ppg and 4 assists, aka way below average numbers for a starter on a top 25 team. And Justin Mason, who played PG last season, has been just as bad now playing on the wing. Jai Luas has been ineffective. If there was a time to see if Bradley could play PG, it would be now. My point being, if Bradley was capable of playing PG, why hasn't he played there this season at all when they have such poor overall guard play from their floor generals? Westbrook was never going to get to play PG unless he stayed at UCLA until his Senior year when Collison graduated.

There is a huge difference as to why Westbrook didn't play PG until he was in the NBA, as he was behind the "Big Man on Campus" UCLA. Bradley, in contrast, is hasn't been given a chance to play PG and that is easily the weakest spot on Texas' team. Something about that tells me that he isn't a PG at all. If he had the PG skills that you guys are saying he does have, I honestly don't see why their starting lineup doesn't look like this:

PG: Avery Bradley
SG: Jordan Hamilton
SF: Damion James
PF: Gary Johnson
C: Dexter Pittman

That would be a great lineup.....if Bradley was a PG.

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Iggy

"If he had the PG skills that you guys are saying he does have"

I really hope you weren't referring to me. In fact, looking back, I don't see anybody saying he has point guard skills...

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 "if Bradley was capable of

 "if Bradley was capable of playing PG, why hasn't he played there this season at all when they have such poor overall guard play from their floor generals?"

Iggy- to answer your question....the Coach  doesn't know what he is doing. Clearly he has no idea who to play & where to play them & for how many minutes. 

"Jai Luas has been ineffective."  

He is more effective than Balbay & Brown.  Lucas shoots a higher FG% & 3 point % than any guard on the team.  His defense isn't that great but neither are any of the other Texas guards except Bradley. He deserves more than 10 minutes of playing time a game.  Poor coaching.

Texas needs to cut down on their gurad rotation.  Right now they play 5 guards who all get 10-28 minutes per game of playing time.  Hard to get into the flow of the game playing like that. Hard to develop chemistry when you are constantly chaging lineups.  Personally I would like to see the Coach make a decesion and pick 3 guards to play the majority of the game.  1 guard should never play. 1 guard is there just for depth concerns in case foul trouble is an issue.  No need to play Lucas, Brown, Balbay, Mason, & Bradley. 

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I'm not saying Bradley can

I'm not saying Bradley can play PG (I have no idea if he can really) but...I would like to see him get a shot at it.

I would also like to see Lucas start at PG to see how things go.   

Balbay isn't getting the job done.  Brown is just a chucker who hurts the team by shooting bricks.  

Honestly if it was up to me this would be my starting lineup:

PG- Lucas, SG- Bradley, SF- Mason, PF- James, C-Pittman 

First off the bench: Hamilton, Gary Johnson 

Balbay rarely plays, Brown never plays 

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he plays sg because thats

he plays sg because thats what he is best at for them. balbay is the point because he is a very good defender. just because you dont play pg doesnt mean you cant play it iggy. in the past college was full of guys who could play point but they were better suited for the team as a sg. tru he isnt a pg now but youre talking like he cant become a pg. you dont have to play it all youre life to become a pg. you have enough basketball knowledge to know that. if we are gonna go by how a player is playing right now as far as the future then favors isnt a first round pick and neither is bledsoe or many other first year players because youre basically saying bradley is what he is and cant get better. alos yout have to add some players in the nba ...a.randolph cant play sf then since hes playing pf most of the time. t.young for the sixers is more of a pf then a sf etc. just because a player doesnt play a position doesnt mean he cant play it. also dexter strickland must not be starting matterial as a pg since he cant take the spot from drew.....see how i make zero sense if i went by that logic. and im not commenting on favors being a elite athlete because he isnt

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Hahaha

I have a drinking game...

Everytime quinceyhodges mentions Derrick Favors, you take a drink.

*This drinking game is sponsered by The Betty Ford Center for Rehabilitation.

the lake show
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how about add john wall to

how about add john wall to it. or is it just for players who arent living up to expectations that you like?

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Haha

It was a joke.

I don't really like Derrick Favors. What makes you think I do? I don't like his court-demeanor.

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Jai Lucas has been very bad

Jai Lucas has been very bad this season every game I've seen him play this season. He played his best (versus a decent team) against UConn, a game where he had 7 points, 3 assists, and 2 turnovers in 21 minutes. Not the stuff legends are made of.

He hasn't had 1 game were he's gotten more than 3 assists.

The reason he shoots a better percentage than all of Texas PG's is because he only attempts 1.5 a game, 5 of his 11 3's this season came against Gardner Webb, Balbay is a terrible shooter, and Brown shoots 3's at a higher clip and at with no discretion. I wouldn't even bring up Lucas' stats because he plays so little and has an extremely small sample size ( 2.7 fg attempts a game, 1.5 are 3's). He is a better shooter than Balbay and Mason, but he isn't playing better than either one at all. And that is really saying something.

I stand behind everything I say about Lucas this season, I liked him at Florida and he was an effective player for them, but this season for Texas has been terrible for him. It really does show whenever he plays.

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I think Bradley will be fine

I think Bradley will be fine I think the coach is trying to get him and hamilton to come back next year because its no way you dont start both guys. like somebody else start Lucas with Bradley, Hamilton, James, Pittman. This would give them supreme athletic ability and also a team that had very few weaknesses. The main thing is to shorten up the rotation because guy cant get the fill of the game too many diff lineups. Thats whats killing Texas as a whole right now. I feel after niext year everybody will see what all the hype was about

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He doesnt have to be a true

He doesnt have to be a true point because in the nba there are few true points and you can pair him with a big guard that can run the offense and he can slash and do what he does best. Nobody said he couldnt guard the other teams point which he would be great at.

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^ Hard to get more than 3

Iggy- ^ Hard to get more than 3 assists when you only play 10 minutes a game. 

Lucas shoots 50% from 3 point range this season.  You can't say it is just because he doesn't shoot much haha that is ludicrous.  He shot better than Balbay & Brown when he was at Florida too.  

He is a better shooter than Balbay, Brown, & Mason...the stats prove it.  You're argument is flawed if you are basing on the fact that he doesn't take many shots.  Stop making lame excuses.

How can you say he was effective at Florida but not at Texas? Haha that makes no sense.  He has played more efficiently at TEXAS 

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He played more. I would

He played more. I would think if he played was better than Balbay, Mason, or even Brown he'd play more. He has made 11/22 shots from 3, 5 of which came against 1 team (Gardner-Webb, he was 5/7). I know he's a better shooter than Balbay and Mason and statistically Brown, but that's only 1 part of the game, and he's done nothing else better than them. His stats are skewed drastically because he takes a very small amount of shots. That's basic statistics.

Saying that his extremely limited sample size of shots makes him a great shooter is like me saying that Gary Johnson is a great shooter because he makes 100% of his 3 point shots, which he actually does. Is Gary Johnson a better shooter than Jai Lucas since he shoots 100% compared to Lucas' 50%?

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double post

double post

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HAHAI have a big enough

HAHA

I have a big enough sample size.

Look at his stats from a full season at Florida... 46% FG, 43% 3 point

Guess what?  Once again that is better than Balbay, Mason, & Brown 

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As I said before, he shoots

As I said before, he shoots better than Balbay, Mason and statistically Brown, but that is one part of the game. He's done nothing else better than any other of those guys.

And if I liked Lucas at Florid more than at Texas, that does make since. He's shooting 3's and FG's at a higher clip, but he didn't get called for traveling, turn the ball over and make the bone-head plays he's making this season at Texas. Players regress and progress, so it's not like I didn't make since by saying that I liked him more last year than this year.

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