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Adi Joseph

Dhamp2
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Adi Joseph

I'm calling you out.

He said, "So far this season, Triche has been coach Jim Boeheim's secondary point guard when the game is on the line. But the 6-foot-4 starter is clearly a more talented player than Scoop Jardine, and it would be a shame if he didn't end up winning the job in the end. Triche was naturally a wing, but his conversion to point guard has been smooth. His shooting ability and size make him a very tough matchup as a lead guard, and while he's still not a natural playmaker, he works well in Syracuse's system, which calls for a lot of passing"

Now Joseph, you know I'm all Syracuse all of the time and I can't concur with your post. Triche only starts because of his length at the top of the zone, which is extremely reactive this year. Height and size is only reason he's starting this season. Go back to Novemeber and look at how many times Boeheim benched Triche for wanting to always score. He's the weak link on this team. Look at his stats this year. Go from game one until now and watch his shots and points consistently decrease. I'm sure coach all but told him to always pass or sit on the bench. I'm really don't think he's a top 25 freshmen in this year's crop.

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway

I know Syracuse basketball
I know Denver Nuggets basketball
I don't know Hubie Brown, but he's one heck of a coach.


JNixon
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I agree with you DHamp. I

I agree with you DHamp. I have been saying that all year. Jardine is a more talented PG (not player) than Triche is. Triche is a SG to me though. Whenever they play Jardine, he makes the team so much better. He may not be all that physically gifted, but he's an excellent playmaker and he makes all the right decisions and has a nice in-between game

Prospect21
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In High School, he played

In High School, he played SG, Triche is good but I believe Triche is the better talent and when he played..he has looked impressive

Dhamp2
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Exactly. The offense flows

Exactly, Iggy9. The offense flows smoothly through Jardine, a red-shirt freshmen. Here's another secret. Everytime Syracuse gets down big, it's Jardine (and sometimes Joseph) who leads the comeback.

People should really take a strong look at Triche's game logs this year from game 1 until now. It's sure to turn heads.

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway

I know Syracuse basketball
I know Denver Nuggets basketball
I don't know Hubie Brown, but he's one heck of a coach.

Adi Joseph
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Well for one, while I agree

Well for one, while I agree Jardine is a more natural point guard, I don't think it's all that debatable who has more actual talent, overall, as basketball players.

When I said Syracuse's style of play is predicated on passing, what I meant was that they distribute the ball well all around the court, which is why I don't see the need for a true natural point guard in the system.

Boeheim, you're right, has pulled back Triche's responsibilities, but I'm not sure I agree with the decision. Some of Syracuse's biggest wins have been with Triche playing extended minutes, namely at West Virginia.

Is he a pure point guard? No. He never will be. But he has the potential to be a big time player in a year or two, and I think his play could be very important moving forward for the Orange.

Jardine is clearly the safer player to use in big situations, but Triche has more upside.

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This should get

This should get interesting...

Dhamp2
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Adi Joseph

Finally a debate worth having! It's been a while and thanks for replying Adi.

First let me say I accidently said Jardine is a red-shirt freshmen. I meant sophmore.

Jardine has more upside. His 3-point shooting is improving to keep defenders honest and his cross over is very underrated. Also, check his assist numbers per 40 mins. He's probably near the top of the Big East. He might would lead the league in assists if he plays 30 mins a night. His best attribute is his defense. It's excellent. He stays in front of defenders and would probably lead the league in steals in given the mins. No joke.

Conversely, Triche was somehwat huge in the West Virginia game. He scored 16, but unless you closely watched, nobody noticed. I'll give him credit, one shot was huge for the Orange late in the game.

But, he's a ball hog who would shoot 25 times a game if allowed. That's why the coach consistently puts him on the bench. The last few games he's been too nervous to shoot because he knows he'll be sat down. Watch, when he does shoot it's within the first five mins. Probably three or a left-handed layup! Trust me on this.

He also get rattled early and often in games and has a penchent for turning over the ball. That bug has flowed over to Jardine a bit lately, but he's still suffice at the point guard positon.

Triche just doesn't have it. He's big and lenghty. He has broad shoulders and likes contact. But he's very inconsisent. Outside the West Virginia game, he hurts more than helps the team.

The team gels good with Jardine. He's a better fit in the offense and plays EXCELLENT defense.

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway

A die-hard Syracuse fan. I know the team as much as my name.

Bring back Etan Thomas, Ryan Blackwell, Jason Hart, Tony Bland, Winfred Walton, John Wallace, Lawrence Moten, Derrick Coleman, Ron Seikley, Keith Duany, Preston Shumpert, Damone Brown, Carmelo Anthony, Eric Devendorf, Josh Pace, Billy Edelin, Hell....Billy Owens.

Prospect21
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How did I get get

How did I get get negatives?

I spy Haters....

Adi Joseph
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I did some evaluating of

I did some evaluating of game logs. Triche has attempted 10 shots or more just three times.

vs. Cornell: 31 minutes, 8-of-13 shooting, 21 points.

Five shots in the first half:

  • One 3-pointer made.
  • Two 3-pointers missed.
  • Two layups made.
Eight shots in the second half:
  • Two 3-pointers made.
  • One 3-pointer missed.
  • One 2-point jumper made.
  • One-2-point jumper missed.
  • Two layups made.
vs. Oakland: 20 minutes, 9-of-11 shooting, 27 points.
 
Four shots in the first half:
  • Three 3-pointers made.
  • One layup made.
Seven shots in the second half: 
  • Three 3-pointers made.
  • Three layups made.
  • One layup missed.
vs. South Florida: 29 minutes, 5-of-10 shooting, 10 points.
 
Four shots in the first half: 
  • Two 3-pointers missed.
  • Two layups made.
Six shots in the second half:
  • One 3-pointer missed.
  • One 2-point jumper made.
  • Two 2-point jumpers missed.
  • Two layups made.
...
 
With that said, I'm not sure why you have this impression that he's constantly taking reckless shots early in games. In each case -- the only three cases where he's taken 10 shots or more in a game, he had more shot attempts in the second half.
 
And given his shooting percentages of 53.2 percent from the field and 41.1 percent from 3-point range, if Jim Boeheim is really telling him to stop shooting, that would be foolish. He's shooting above team averages both overall and from 3-point range.
 
I firmly believe that, while, as I've said, he's not a true point guard, he is a better option offensively than Jardine, who demands the ball to be in his hands to have much impact offensively. Triche spreads the floor with his shooting and is a much more natural scorer. Given the passing abilities of Wes Johnson and Andy Rautins, I don't think a ball-dominant point guard is a necessity by any means for the Orange.

Regardless, my statement was not to call Triche a top-25 freshman, but rather a player who I felt could have a significant impact on the rest of the season. Being an Orange fan, you should agree that, whether positive or negative, Triche should have a big impact on the remainder of the season as a starter for a top three team.
 
Personally, I think you are tremendously undervaluing Triche, though. I would expect him to shift to shooting guard next year and lead the team in scoring, with Rautins and Johnson out of the way. He's a more pure scorer than Joseph, for sure.
 
As a side note, even though we disagree, I wanted to thank you for your "call out." It's good to see specific, hard-nosed, intelligent debate on these boards, as opposed to the general threads about "Who is better: David Lee or Brook Lopez?" and "EVAN TURNER IS THE MAN." 

Dhamp2
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I give you mad respect Adi.

I give you mad respect Adi. Thanks for this....Last note. Dion Waiters is coming to campus next week along with Fab Melo so I'm not sure about Triche leading the team in scoring. Joseph is also coming on REALLY strong. He's our 7th man, but second on the team in scoring. If he gets a three-point shot, he's a first round pick.

Dhamp2...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway

Adi Joseph
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I love Kris Joseph, in part

I love Kris Joseph, in part because he has a great last name. I think he could be a lottery selection in 2012, which would mean he'd be a four year player with two years as a star. That's the kind of recruit every coach wants to land, as they have far greater impact than the one-and-dones, unless you can pull in three one-and-dones every year. 

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