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If The Knicks Really Don't Want To Keep David Lee, They Should Do This Trade NOW

GreenLantern
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If The Knicks Really Don't Want To Keep David Lee, They Should Do This Trade NOW

David Lee and either Harrington's or Curry's or Mobley's expiring contract. There are rumors Stoudamire is being shopped and Lee still might want more than he's worth. Lee wanted 12 mil a year before this season, in which he became an All-Star. I don't know why he would want 12 mil or less now. The Knicks should give him at the most 11 mil. It would hurt Knicks fans (and Lee knows this) if he left, especially for nothing. Trading him for Stoudamire would keep those fans and possibly add more this season. It really makes sense for both teams because Phoenix would get youth, rebounding, scoring, and a player who played the same style of basketball. Reasons to do the deal if you are NY: 1) The Knicks have some promising players other than Lee. 2) LeBron isn't coming to NY. 3) They are a decent team, but they are just gonna miss the playoffs by a handful of games. 4) If you can deal Lee with Harrington, you can give the promising rookie Hill some PT. 5) You currently don't have a first rounder, so this move along with adding another good FA in the summer will put butts in the arena. 6) etc.
Thoughts?


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Lee's Worth

I think that David Lee is being undervalued in the league. Call me crazy, but I'd rather have David Lee than Stoudamire due to his effort on boards and defense. Also, on offense, he's not a black hole like Stoudamire. David lee's game is one of those that fits in the scheme of the offense regardless of who he plays with. He shoots the midrange jumper, crashes the boards, what more could you ask?

I think teams are stating to realize that right now, I honestly think for the expiring contract and Lee, they could get more than the Lazy Doufus Stoudamire. His lack of effort's gonna get him booed in New york

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I like Lee

I like Lee more than Stoudamire too, but apparently I like Lee more than the Knicks. If they don't have any intention of paying him 12 mil plus, they should quit bull----ing and trade him for a star.

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Stoudemire isn't a great

Stoudemire isn't a great rebounder but he does have the capability to competely dominate other front lines. To compare, if Amare made 15 million i would justify giving Lee 12.

If you put them together they would be lethal.

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i will also

i will also have lee rather than stoudemire in knicks and i think that they should try to keep him a bring in another FA (lebron will stay,but i think that wade isnt going to stay in heat) and trade away harrington and isnt mobley retired can someone explain me how come his contract is counted in salary cap?

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Lee isn't getting traded

Lee isn't getting traded If I had to guess.

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Being Realistic.

Thinking about it, Stoudamire has never played with a top 10 Superstar who isn't a pass first-point guard (Nash). If the Knicks plan on getting another star in the off season, I'm not sure Stoudamire can effectively play without the ball in his hands in the post or getting dimes from Nash. Let's say the Knicks cannot land anyone other than Nowitzki or Bosh in the off season, can Stoudamire co-exist with stars in the post who shoot first and ask questions later? I think both players on the floor at the same time will create a massive black hole on offence. Think about it, Bosh and Amar'e both calling for the ball every single play, movement on offence will be non-existant. Amar'e will be reduced to a slasher and finisher (since he doesn't rebound or defend particularly well), and that, to me, is NOT worth 15 mill.

All in all, IF the Knicks pull this trade off in the next few weeks, they better be praying they get a playmaker in the off season in order to keep everyone happy and not a shoot first Big.

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I've also been thinking

I've also been thinking about getting value for Lee without losing him for free. This is a good trade that I think is more than fair to the warriors.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygjnf4j

I'd like to see the Knicks also squeeze a draft pick or Steph Curry out of the Warriors with this trade.

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The warriors make out

The warriors make out because they get Lee and a proven solid young NBA starter at Sf, one of their weaker positions. Lee would fit well next to Biedrins. Jeffries would be a good defender to bring off the bench.

The Knicks make out with a good young PF that can run the floor and have boatloads of potential in Randolph. They also shed Jeffries contract.

I only made this trade assuming that Walsh is not willing to re-sign Lee for however much money he is asking for. If the Knicks signed lebron this offseason Chandler looks to be the odd man out.

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arman

from a tecnical stand point Mobley is retired, he will never play in the nba again. However he didn't retire at the end of his contract. (he was given medical leave, very serious heart condition) While his contract is still counting and his contract can be traded whatever team has his contract will be given compensation from the nba for paying him. Basically he is just an expiring contract. Mobley was good on Houston.

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The Warriors would love

The Warriors would love that, I can't see the Knicks giving up on Lee and Chandler.
Moving Jeffries they could sign 2 max guys but your giving up a lot in Chandler especially with no PG in return I wouldn't do it.

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I see what your saying and I

I see what your saying and I would like to get a 1st rounder in addition to what we'd get back. I suggested this trade because we'd have more cap space and I think that we're going to lose Lee for nothing in free agency. I dont think tht Golden State would be willing to give up their lottery pick but it is a possibility since they add 2 good young starters without losing much from their rotation. That would also put us back in the John Wall sweepstakes. If not this year's first rounder then maybe next years.

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"The Warriors make out

"The Warriors make out because they get Lee and a proven solid young NBA starter at SF."

In terms of talent, the Warriors I think make out very good, but Nelson starts Maggette a lot of games at PF, he doesn't like conventional PFs like Lee because he lacks range, something Nelson absolutely has to have, that's why players like Beidrins, who makes $9M per year and Turiaf, who makes $5M per year play very sporadic minutes. For any other team besides the Warriors those are two giant cap numbers and two pretty talented players (besides Beidrins' FT shooting, just attrocious) that should probably be utilized. Lee would be in the same situation in GS that those guys are in, making good money, but playing sporadic minutes because you don't have the necessary skill to play in Nelson's system. Chandler is in the same boat too, he doesn't have the necessary range to be a healthy piece of that team, I think he's shooting something like 25% from 3 this year? This wouldn't be a move Don Nelson does, any other team would give this trade quite a bit of thought though. Also, with Jeffries, does Nelson even care about defense, especially to take that kind of cap number on for another year? Doubt it, give him some more gunners and he'll gladly accept, give him a PF that's of decent size, athletic, and that has range or a SF that can shoot from 3. They also would never give up Curry or a draft pick for players that they think they wouldn't benefit from, and Lee, Chandler, and Jeffries all fit that bill, not Don Nelson guys.

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Of course Knicks fans love

Of course Knicks fans love it, can you be any more bias? You get rid of Jeffries and his contract next year, plus you get something instead of nothing for Lee. Yes, in talent alone, the Warriors you would think benefit from this trade, but like I said above, none of the guys you are offering are Don Nelson type of guys, they all lack consistent range, something Don Nelson absolutely requires for his starters. They would be a much better team with these players if they didn't have Nelson as their Coach, but the fact that he's still there makes this trade completely fantasy. Replace Chandler with Gallinari, and find a third team for Lee and Jeffries and something extra back for the Warriors from that team.

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Good point the trade looks

Good point the trade looks better than but most likely it would be a 2011 1st rounder.
I figured Knicks have Lee's Bird rights and will work out a deal most likely but who knows.
Also Lee can veto a trade this year as well, would he want to play in Golden State.

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Lee has good range at around

Lee has good range at around 18 feet. Chandler is a good all around player that actually compares alot to Maggette. I see what your saying about Nellie's preferences but I doubt even he can deny an all-star caliber player like Lee. BTW, Biedrins has always played a good amount of minutes for Nellie. He played about 30 mpg since '06 and they valued him enough to lock him up at 9 mil per year.

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Warriors get: Danilo

Warriors get: Danilo Gallinari, Jared Jeffries, Travis Outlaw, and Rudy Fernandez

Knicks get: Anthony Randolph, Speedy Claxton, Raja Bell, and Jerryd Bayless

Blazers get: David Lee, Wilson Chandler

What do you think?

Maybe 2nd Rounders from the Knicks and Warriors to the Blazers too?

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"He played about 30 mpg

"He played about 30 mpg since '06 and they valued him enough to lock him up at 9 mil per year."

They're playing him less than 25 minutes per this year, that's not enough minutes for a guy with a $9M cap number. He'd be better utilized playing for somebody else. Would you pay somebody that kind of money for half the game? Not too many GMs can do that and get away with it, especially for the fact that he's younger and still has potential.

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Besides the fact that the

Besides the fact that the Knicks give up their 3 best assets for cap space, its an ok trade.

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For the Knicks it's

For the Knicks it's essentially Bayless, Randolph and cap space (big move to get rid of Jeffries' additional year) for Gallinari, Chandler, and Lee, is cap space that vital to the Knicks that they'd be willing to give up their only players of actual value (anything other than just a cap number) for it?

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"They're playing him less

"They're playing him less than 25 minutes per this year, that's not enough minutes for a guy with a $9M cap number"

He came back from an injury and hasnt been as effective as he has been in the past. It has nothing to do with his style of play.

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I wouldn't give up Chandler,

I wouldn't give up Chandler, Gallo and others for Bayless and Randolph.
Only positive it Randolph give you legit shot blocker but its not worth it they passed on Randolph in the draft for Gallo.
Bayless isn't a 3 pt shooter and he's a shoot first pg too.

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666diabloblanco

although we've had our disagreements in the past i respect your knowledge.

If what your saying about Nellie not wanting big men without range is true then why id the Warriors push so hard to go after Amare?

Your trade is plausible but I cant give up 3 good starters for 2 unproven players nomatter what their potential. I love bayless and randolph and I wanted Walsh to pick either over gallo but there are to many questons and Gallo's shooting ability is a hard thing to replace. I would be more apt to trade Jordan Hill. The warriors could be interested in Hill because he does have a sweet stroke for a big man.

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If the Knicks do get

If the Knicks do get Stoudemire, I think their FA options are
1)Lebron James(Obviously)
2) Joe Johnson
3) Try to pry Rubio from Minny then from Europe

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Beidrins at this time has

Beidrins at this time has absolutely no range outside of 5 feet from the basket, in Nelson's perimeter shot happy style do you really think he fits? Every other team that has a young 7 foot shot blocker with potential that pays him $9M per year would play him much more than Nelson, how many other frontcourt players do the Warriors have that you would play over Beidrins even if he were coming back from an injury? Plus take into consideration that there's no chance in hell that you're making the playoffs this year, you're telling me you personally would only play him 24 minutes a game even if he were coming back from injury? Just based on logic, or even what every other teams besides the Warriors does, he plays more, even if he were on a playoff contending team, he plays more. Nelson obviously doesn't like his style of play, remember they gave him that extension when Mullin was still in the front office, where is he now? Every explanation you give about why Beidrins doesn't play will be completely illogical, every conventional way of thinking in the NBA will have to make you conclude Beidrins should play more, especially with the fact that his team is going nowhere this season, how many other young 7 footers in the NBA that have extensive potential do you play only 24 minutes a game when you're team is headed for the lottery? None, Nelson doesn't think conventially, he would never take Lee on, not unless he could move him right away for somebody else.

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Biedrins has been a big part

Biedrins has been a big part of the Warriors. You are completely wrong about him not being a part of Nellie's system. He's averaged 30 minutes for 3 years under Nellie. Do you really think that they would have signed him if he didnt fit Nellie's scheme? Every team needs rebounders and an inside presence.

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"If what your saying about

"If what your saying about Nellie not wanting big men without range is true then why id the Warriors push so hard to go after Amare?"

From my quote above:

give him a PF that's of decent size, athletic, and that has range

After Stoudemire had his what second microfracture surgery you could tell in games that he had really worked on that 20 footer, from before the surgery to after there was a giant difference in his shot consistency. I'm don't believe Lee is that kind of pick and pop guy, plus he's nowhere even close to being the athlete Stoudemire is. Yes, Stoudemire is attroucious on D, but is Lee really any better?

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You are severely

You are severely underestimating Lee's athleticism. You obviously dont watch him play much because he has become deadly on the pick and pop shot at 18 feet. Plus Lee is an Ironman while Amare cant stay healthy for a full season.

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"Biedrins has been a big

"Biedrins has been a big part of the Warriors. You are completely wrong about him not being a part of Nellie's system. He's averaged 30 minutes for 3 years under Nellie. Do you really think that they would have signed him if he didnt fit Nellie's scheme? Every team needs rebounders and an inside presence"

Mullins signed him to that extension.
He's a 23 year old 7 foot C with extensive potential, that's payed $9M this season and only plays 24 min, never would happen on any other team besides the Warriors, especially because they're not competitive. Who plays their 23 yo 7 footer that's already a defensive dynamo only 24 minutes a game, obviously they play an unconvential style of basketball.
They don't play D
They are last in Rebounding, they're actually the worst in Rebounding totals and differential at almost -9, so they don't care about that either.

So do they really care about Beidrins or a guy who can rebound and body people up in Lee? The answer is a resounding no, not with Nelly.

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You really have no clue

You really have no clue about Lee's game at all. Your view of him completely proves that. he is not a body up guy at all. He is a face to the basket, tenacious hustle man, ambidextrous, athletic post player who has extended his range to 18 feet. Do your hw before you knock someone or have them pegged. He might not be quite at Amare's athletic range but hes right below. And thats prob only as far as verticals go. Theres alot more than jumping to make someone athletic.

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Lee is an undersized PF with

Lee is an undersized PF with average athleticism that doesn't have consistent range, you want that over the near 7 foot supremely athletic Stoudemire? You're unique my friend, kind of like Nelly, completely unconvential, tell me what Nelly thinks about giving up Curry, Randolph, and Beidrins for Lee and then tell me what he thinks of that for Stoudemire, going to be two completely different conversations, you mention Lee, he hangs up, you mention Stoudemire, he becomes intrigued. Do that to all 31 GMs and then tell me who's better, Lee or Stoudemire. As for injury concerns, besides last year, where he did miss 29 games he's only missed three games this season and the two seasons before combined, I'll take that any day over the size, skill and athletically challenged Lee, if he's such an athlete why is he averaging only a block every 3 games? That's never a good number to see for a PF, is it because he's undersized and not athletic, maybe? Overrated garbage player, he bet never even comes close to repeating the statistics he's had while he's been with D'Antoni.

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He has a short wingspan. Do

He has a short wingspan. Do you limit athleticism to jumping ability? Thats a common misconception. You are living in the past my friend. Amare isnt quite the leaping freak he was years past. Lee was averaging 11 and 9 on a half-court team sharing the post with Curry and Randolph before he even developed a jumpshot. How the hell do you think you know what Nellie would say about Lee or Stoudemire. Your whole arguement is speculation.

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You really have no clue

You really have no clue about Lee's game at all. Your view of him completely proves that. he is not a body up guy at all. He is a face to the basket, tenacious hustle man, ambidextrous, athletic post player who has extended his range to 18 feet. Do your hw before you knock someone or have them pegged. He might not be quite at Amare's athletic range but hes right below. And thats prob only as far as verticals go. Theres alot more than jumping to make someone athletic.

A block every 3 games, do you see now, he's not athletic, yes, he has decent quickness for a PF, but he does nothing athletically to change games, he's a put back guy and a product statistally of D'Antoni's system in that they like to run, he does nothing extraordinary, he's not even a #5 guy on a team, honestly, after this season I don't see him being anything more than a high cap number. By a body up guy I mean on D, I know he's not a back to the basket type of guy, but he's a guy that flourishes in an uptempo system like the Knicks, like I said, he does have decent quickness for a PF. The problem for him, is that once he's out of that system, and most likely in more of a conventional half court offense, how does he create his own offense? Do you think he can really shoot consistently over guys? From your name I'm assuming you watch a lot of Knicks games, do you think he can go to a team like the Blazers and be more than just a put back guy, runner on the break? You can at least say that A'Mare with his size and length will always have a back to the basket game regardless of his footwork, he is still very quick and athletic, but can Lee have one too, like Al Jefferson? That's where I'm not sure if he deserves really any sort of recogntion other than he's a PF that can rebound ann run on the break, is that really worth $10M per or a consideration to trade for him over A'Mare? I don't think so.

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Your whole arguement is

Your whole arguement is speculation

No, just observing teams' trends, teams do what they want to do, they have agendas, they're not Fantasy Basketball teams, they don't just collect talent without thought to what they like to do in regards to gameplan, well, maybe the Wolves last summer, LOL.

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You keep an arguement up

You keep an arguement up about a player you have little to no knowledge about.

He will grab rebounds in any system.

He is a very good shooter out to 18 feet.

He is good at driving the lane.

He is and excellent passing bigman.

The Knicks are not like the Suns of the past. They do not play as uptempo as the Suns did. Most of their offense this season has come in a half-court set. Lee doesnt have a Steve Nash to dribble penetrate and dish for an easy 2.

You try to play stereotypes off as facts. The Knicks have not been a typical Mike D'Antoni run and gun team this year. Just because Lee doesnt get alot of blocks doesnt mean hes not athletic.

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First Amare is 6'10 not 7

First Amare is 6'10 not 7 feet he might be athletic and have a big wingspan but he only averages 1 block a game.
Also he's been in the league for 8 years probably he's peaked at least scoring wise and could get get 14 mill or more in the offseason. He's had a history of injuries mainly knee problems.

Lee on the other hand is in his 5th year having a career season at 6'9 scoring at 19 ppg and will get paid less than Amare most likely. Also Lee has never missed any significant playing time.

You can't really say Lee is a product of the system as much this year because the Knicks haven't run as much.
Also guys like Gallo, Chandler have had a bigger role in the offense than last year.
Not sure how many Knicks games you've seen but Lee definately wouldn't be just a put back player and runner on the break for other teams. Lee is getting better in the post he'll never be the main scoring option on a team but to say he's not even a #5 guy on a team means your pretty clueless when it comes to his game.

BTW since when is Amare is a great post up player he's a jump shooter, finisher on breaks with dunks and a face up drive past you kind of player. Rebounding wise Lee is much better the numbers prove that and Amare has played for D'antoni as a PF & C. Amare is in a similar system now too but doesn't even get 9 rebs a game. Both shoot about the same from the FT line but Lee is a better passer with 3.4 asts and Amare with 1.

Lee lets say they can get for 10-12 mill and Amare would take 14mill to max who would you rather have?

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You still haven't answered

You still haven't answered my question, will he be able to create his own offense in the half court? That's the problem I see in him, yes, the Knicks are only 13th in FGAs compared to the old Suns days when they were consistently number one, but they still run quite a bit, they may not take the hasty shots they used to take, but don't tell me they don't run. Yes, he can rebound, yes he can run, yes he can get easy put back dunks, yes Stoudemire's defensive effort is weak, I will admit that, but 90% of his career has been spent with a coach (D'Antoni or Gentry) who has never preached defense. You have to admit that Stoudemire has much better physical tools, offensively and defensively than Lee, just by not giving a crap Stoudemire has one block a game, he doesn't even care and he gets one. Lee is a hustle type of guy and he only gets one per 3 games. You're telling me that with the right coaching staff Stoudemire couldn't become a better defender? Lee is as good as he can get defensively because he's undersized and average athletically.

"He's had a history of injuries mainly knee problems"

He missed one third of a season the past four, that's it, and it was because of his eye, not his knee, safe to say his knee hasn't been a concern for the past half decade.

I can't believe I'm actually discussing David Lee with two Knicks fans, you're never not going to think he's not a good player, I respect your loyalty, but this article started out with a David Lee trade to the Warriors, which if Nelson was smart he'd do, but you can't honestly tell me from what Nelson has a habit of doing that he would want Lee, how many undersized PFs has he went after in the last five years, one, Ronny Turiaf, and he's actually a very good shot blocker, rebounder, athletic, hustle type of guy, but how much does he actually play and how many touches does he get? Lee just isn't Nelly's type of player, like I said above, teams have agendas, especially the Warriors who may not have the most convential type of offense, come on he traded SJax for Vlad Radmanovich. A'Mare would probably be his C, with Maggette at PF, how convential is that? Could you really see Nelly putting Lee at C, as evidenced by his 1 block per 3 games he couldn't protect the rim if his life depended on it, how many easy layups would there be, but in all fairness, could you really see a 6'9", short wing-spanned, average athletic, PF defending the basket? He would want somebody with 3 point range at PF, like Vlad or Maggette, not Lee.

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K i didnt read all the posts but here is my opinion

A'mare is injury plagued of late. I would be surprised though if he does put up one or two more 30 point seasons. This will all be leaning on if his injuries, some do to random accidents leave him and his own personal drive to be a better basketball player. That is the Amare that is worth 14-15 million not the one that doesn't crash the glass or go up for blocks.

The blocks aren't even that big of a deal for me as long as he is staying out of foul trouble and in the game.

I do agree Nelson would rather have Amare over Lee whether that be a 1-3 million dollar difference.

If you put James and Amare together or even Wade and Amare i would not worry about defensive rebounds because James and Wade hit the glass and can throw it to him on the fast break. In past phoenix systems Marion hit the glass and threw it up to amare for the fast break dunk. Amare is bread to Run not rebound which is good and bad. But as long as he is offensive rebounding at a high rate i would not worry.

I dont think David Lee is a product of the system. Sure he may get 1-3 rebounds more a night because of the offense but he would still be an effective man say in Orlando or Miami or other places like the Clippers. But I do have to say Lee will keep a game steady but he doesn't have the star power to turn tides or the way the game changes, he just keeps the game going for his team.

Lee just like Amare does not get many blocks but also stays out of foul trouble. (amare does get in foul trouble though the last few years idk about this year)

Biedrens needs a new team

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amare can ball without a

amare can ball without a great pg. he played pretty well everytime nash was hurt

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yea but

When Nash was hurt, Amare takes the majority of the shots...I'm a Warriors fan so a couple things...
1. We are NOT giving up Randolph yet
2. David Lee would be better for us because he likes to rebound (unlike Amare), plays defense (unlike Amare), and shares the ball (unlike Amare) which is good because we already have two black holes in Monta and Maggette.
3 As for Andris, he just came back from a groin and back injury, and Nellie said he's still not 100%, yet he's still averaging 8 boards a game.

the lake show
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Joined: 01/13/2010
Posts: 8202
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id like to see andris and

id like to see andris and lee play together. id give up randolph for him in a sec. hes a great rebounder works hard and has a high basketball iq. and can knock down the mid range.. with andris at 100percent they would be one of , if not the best rebounding duo in the nba

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