c.ford and draftexpress mocks
they both have w.warren over motiejunas
the lithuanian kid is averaging 10 points in italian league(better competition than ncaa-ask brandon jennings or see the his last years stats to take my point)
he is barefoot 7 footer and he is a naturally gifted bball player-is considered the best talent in europe along with valanciounas and he could end up something between dirk and bargnani
on the other hand you have a undersized s.guard at 6-3(and not 6-4 as he is listed) who propably will end up as a sixth man like b.gordon or nate robinson or e.house(best case scenario) or if runs the point he would be a cancer for every team like arenas,iverson,tj ford...(he could score 20 with 40fg% and his team record would be 20-62)
the lithuanian should be in the top 7 picks and certainly higher than warren or p.patterson who will be a role player -banger like the very valuable in his prime kurt thomas.
nbadraftnet has that right
also both of them started to realize d.cousins value and have moved him up.
but what made me think that c.ford is on drugs is that he has j.henson higher in the 2010 draft than h.whiteside
I have never been a big fan of Willie Warren. He needs the ball to be effective, he cannot be a cog in a bigger system, atleast not yet. He has good drive-and-dish and scoring abilities, but in the NBA I definitly see Motiejunas being a bigger sucess.
Donatas Motiejunas has been a mystery to me for a while. There is a little game footage of him on youtube, but that doesn't tell you what kind of player he really is. What I have been able to gather is the following:
Post Entry Passes
If Boxed-Out is utterly incapable of getting the rebound
I have never seen Hassan Whiteside play, so I won't even comment on him.
first off, once u start to read into alot of the nba writers from espn... you come to realize they are all completely retarded(besides adande). second off... while i do think motiejunas would be a better choice for anybody over willie warren, u say hes averaging 10 pts in the itilian league and brandon jennings only averaged 7... brandon jennings averaged like 11 minutes a game in italy and im guessing this guy is near the same
Willie Warren is a pretty solid prospect, but I wouldn't take him in the top 10 and then hand him the keys to my offense as a PG. I can't get an accurate gauge on Montiejunas, as I've never seen him play, but the stigma of Euro bigs as busts will linger around him unless he's the second coming of Nowitzki, which is possible from what I heard about his game. As far as Whiteside goes, I'm never sold on the bigs that play for mid-majors like Marshall, whether I see them play or not. He has Patrick O'Bryant written all over him, a player this site hyped up big time, only to flop horribly.
The fascination with Henson is interesting, because he is a guy who barely plays on a pretty average ACC team. The name UNC and the hype of a highly touted recruit coming out of high school is propping him up, but he isn't going pro. Ed Davis was out with a sprained ankle last night, and he is still struggling to get on the floor. It has happened where guys have completely lived off their prep accolades into the draft, but it gotten B.J. Mullens a trip to the D-League.
I honestly wonder how the major guys who run these sites will talk to someone and then watch a game trying to convince themselves or at least see what they have been told about a player as opposed to watching a game and thinking for themselves. I joked in an earlier post how Ford was quoting sources who were raving about Udoh, but concerned about the age of Brackins despite the fact that they are the same age. All these sites have violent swings in draft slots of players based off showcase games. Just a couple weeks ago, Elias Harris was the non-1-and-done freshman who would become a lottery pick, now it is Hassan Whiteside and Eric Bledsoe who were on the periphery of radar screens. I get it.
The other thing that is driving me nuts is how much of this stuff is just proximity crushes. They'll go from Hassan Whiteside to Solomon Alabi to Aaric Murray, and the next thing you know people think there are 30 lottery picks in this draft. I am already bracing myself for the inevitable report come May where someone writes that there is a GM who is convinced Jon Scheyer is the next Steve Nash, following in the long line of next Nash's Jared Jordan, Jason Richards, and Stephen Curry. Some of these guys will go to a bar at night and at 11pm there are two or three 10s, a few 9s, and a room full of 5s and 6s. By 3am, the 10s are looking apathetic and the 5s are coming with energy. The next thing you see things like scouts and GMs talking themselves into Terrence Williams and Tyler Hansbrough as lottery picks because of the low floor. They are still 5s. I feel that is what happens. Well, Whiteside is 6'11" and can get up and down the floor. Sure, he has no offensive skills, but that is no big deal. Well, sure Harris is a 6'6" power forward, but he does play hard. Man that Ekpe Udoh has long arms. Sure Jon Scheyer isn't that athletic or even really a true point, but he is producing at Duke. I suggest people just leave the bar when they start talking themselves into Luke Harangody as a 1st round pick, because it is going to happen.
Name any player in this draft that you think is guaranteed to be good and why. There's complete uncertainty beyond John Wall and Evan Turner.
elias harris is a small forward in the NBA without a doubt
^ Completely agree... I think John Wall and Turner are the two best prospects. I just don't see a lot of risk with those guys, yet they both still have good upside (wall more than turner).
As for anything ESPN~ it's ALL hype. that's all ESPN is. Hyping anything they are going to show on their channels (or ABC). Not only do they get money from people reading the constant updates on their sites all day (and watching sportscenter, pti, etc) but the strategy also generates interest in their Lottery/Draft TV shows... not to mention all the speculation that goes on leading up to the draft.
i'm actually kind of convinced that chad ford is just a pawn used by GMs around the NBA. They tell him some GARBAGE to try and throw off the competition.... Think about how many trade rumors there are all the time, and then think about how many actually happen... And then realize that most of the trades that actually do happen, never see the rumor mill in the first place! CUZ PPL DONT REVEAL THEIR SECRETS... only the bullshit they want put out there by the media.
"i'm actually kind of convinced that chad ford is just a pawn used by GMs around the NBA. They tell him some GARBAGE to try and throw off the competition.."
Been saying it on here for months, Ekpe Udoh!!!! Dude is nothing but a late 1st rounder/early 2nd at best, I'd take Lawal and Booker over him right now.
ESPN is wack
Why is everyone so down on willie warren. You guys make it seem as if he has no talent and should be left for the dead and shouldn't be drafted. This guy still is an explosive wing combo guard who has the ability to shoot the deep ball and get to the rim at will. Definitely a scoring guard, but will make the pass to the open guy if he finds a seam. There just isn't much help for him and he is realizing it is not easy when there's no blake griffin and defenses are focusing on you. If he stays another year and those players around him (gallon, mason-griffin) get better, I really think he could be a top 3-5 pick, and amass all the player of the year recognition many thought he'd receive this year. But if he comes out this year, he should still get in the late lottery to mid-first based on talent alone. Either way, at the next level, he's probably going to be an energy 6th man kinda guy initially, and will grow into a starter's role.
Based upon what I've read about him, he has that infamous "potential" label, but hasn't come close to reaching it. All of us have seen far too many guys with potential who never went anywhere. But he's only 19, he's still extremely thin, and there's no way people can make a definitive decision this early in his career. But one thing most people agree on, he's struggling big time adjusting to the guys in Europe and isn't anywhere near ready for the kind of competition he would face in the NBA.
Please read the comments below that I copied from another website and tell us what you think. It would really be nice to hear from guys who've actually seen him play on a regular basis.
"Perhaps the place where Motiejunas is struggling the most right now is on the glass, having grabbed just four defensive rebounds in 82 minutes of action through five Italian league games. It’s not hard to come away with the feeling at times that Motiejunas lacks quite a bit of toughness watching him being boxed out with ease while casually going after loose balls with one hand, and this will be a significant concern for NBA decision makers moving forward if he can’t find a way to pick up his play here. He looks very indifferent setting screens and stepping in to take charges, avoiding contact and not really being in a huge rush to sacrifice his body for the sake of the team.
On the positive side, Motiejunas’ terrific talent-level is constantly on display, sometimes in small flashes and sometimes in very large ones. His excellent hands, extremely nimble footwork and terrific mobility are all huge assets that have clearly translated to this level of competition, and have already allowed Motiejunas to establish himself as a scoring presence even with limited possessions.
Right now Motiejunas looks a little bit lost, clearly lacking some confidence and needing time to settle into his new role against the much stronger opponents he’s facing compared with last season. It’s way too early at this juncture to draw any long-term conclusions based on Motiejunas’ play, so we’ll just have to continue to watch closely and see how he progresses."
666BlancoDiablo, I wouldn't make the argument that it is a complete unknown. There will always be the injury unknown. Nobody can predict what happened to DeMarr Johnson or Shaun Livingston. It is entirely possible someone who had been healthy their entire life has a run of injuries like Grant Hill did. Even if we set that aside, there are still reasonable risks versus rewards for players.
I think there are three bigs who are locks to be long-term starters in the league: Cousins, Monroe, and Aldrich. With Cousins, teenagers mature. He hasn't gotten arrested like DC or Z-Bo did at a young age. He comes off more as an emotional kid than someone who is a bad guy and could be a real problem. If teams draft him knowing it is going to be an up-and-down run for a few years while he grows up, then I think they will be pleased with the end result. Monroe gets kicked around as being not athletic, but not every successful big is Amare, Howard, or Josh Smith. Just look around the league: Dirk, Duncan, the Gasol brothers, Aldridge, Scola, Ilyasova, Barngani, Frye, Murphy, Bogut, Love, Green, B. Miller, Gortat, R. Anderson, and Speights. Even one-time great athletes who are now run-of-the-mill ones like Rasheed, McDyess, Howard, Joe Smith, and Jermaine O'Neal. Skills and smarts go a long way if a player is just big enough, long enough, and athletic enough. This is still a guy who is a legit 6'10, 240 lbs. with a 7'2" wingspan, and isn't exactly a lumbering fool. He doesn't break backboards, but you don't get bonus points for doing so. Aldrich is as safe as they come. Legit NBA center size, incredibly long wingspan, and an underrated offensive repertoire. If a team wants to make sure they don't have to scour the globe gambling on guys like the next Hassan Whiteside or Saer Sene, they can take Aldrich and not have to worry about that position for a decade.
It is still much too early to dismiss Derrick Favors. I think if one considers he is an 18-year old freshman at a major college, I don't think he is underperforming. If people can get off the absurd Amare and Howard comparisons, I think people would not be unsure of him. I think if people compared him to Al Horford (big but not huge, good leaper, athletic, willing to play inside) and have a reasonable expectation that he wouldn't be going off as an All-American as a freshman, then I don't think people would be so down on an 18-year old getting his first run through of college basketball. I do think Davis is probably overrated. It is probably 50-50 he ends up as a long-term starter. My concerns with him are his body. I don't think Patrick Patterson is going to be any different from the legion of 6'7 power forwards who have long wingspans, know how to play, and are athletic. I don't think it merits a top ten pick, but I think he'll be around a while. My worry would be if he and Trevor Booker were to switch teams, would either squad be any different? One is probably going to go 20 picks after the other, and I don't see a big difference. If it was me, I wouldn't want to be the person taking Patterson where he is currently slotted, and be completely comfortable taking Booker in his current range (NBADraft.net #29, Ford #33, Draftexpress #34). Brackins is in an interesting spot. He was probably never good enough to merit a lottery pick as some suggested last season. It would have been like drafting Yi in the top ten, but in the late-first he is not without some value. He can still shoot the ball, and isn't small. He can be a stretch big, he can run a pick-and-pop. In the right fit, he could be a nice player.
I think there is probably a 25-75 hit-miss on Alabi and Whiteside. I'm not the biggest Dexter Pittman fan, but I could not feel comfortable taking either one of those two over Pittman. First off, Pittman is the same age as Alabi and a year older than Whiteside. While he has been at Texas for four years, he has spent most of that time dieting. He is still growing in experience and coming into his own as a player. I cannot dismiss concerns about him gaining back some of the weight he has lost, but I'd rather incur that risk than gamble Alabi or Whiteside will learn how to play. There was once a time where everything that was being said about those two was said about Jerome Jordan. Even being 23-years old, isn't getting Jordan in the 2nd round a better long-term investment for a team? I would much rather see a team take Jordan in the 30s or 40s, send him to Spain/Greece/Russia for a couple years, and then bring him back for a two-or-three year low-level contract. Whether you take Whiteside, Jordan, or Alabi, I don't think a team is going to get results out of them anytime soon. Why not take the approach where the player will continue to develop as opposed to being a human victory cigar while making rookie scale pay?
I don't see guys like Sanders, Udoh, Lawal, or Varnado being some incarnation of an energy big off the bench. If some team was to take Ekpe Udoh 13-15th, and let's say he doesn't wash out like sooooooo many long, lean college shot blockers with do, how foolish would they look to come away with the next Jared Jeffries? Does he really have more potential than that? If a team takes Varnado or Sanders, can they really expect anything more than an Amundson or Bidman type? I have no problem with a team going that route, but how much of an investment does a team want to make in a specialist? On the other end of the athletic spectrum, there is Luke Harangody. He isn't completely without value. Sure he could be a Craig Smith, Darius Songaila or Jon Brockman, but if a team wants a Craig Smith they can probably sign him this summer for pretty reasonable amount. Some team might want to talk themselves into taking him in the 1st round or high in the second, but all they would be getting is a very average backup power forward that could just as easily be found on the scrap heap.
I appreciate your insight, you need to start more posts. Thanks for answering my question thoroughly, I agree with you on Davis too, he doesn't have a wide enough body to be able to put on enough strength to be successful. I just haven't been sold enough on anybody besides Wall and Turner to come up with any real, clear cut conclusion on any prospect, although I do like Favors, purely for the fact that he has a great body, good quickness and elite athleticism for a PF. Cousins also intrigues me, a lot of that is again like Favors in that he's so physically developed at such a young age, but that he also has a lot of skill for somebody that's 6'11". He must learn to harness his emotion though, Eric Bledsoe's HS team played Cousins' team in the 5A class Semi-Finals of Alabama and even Bledsoe said they tried to get him riled to throw him off his game and it worked, teams will know what to do to stop him and nobody can control that but Cousins, this will be pivotal to his success. I'm not sure if Aminu will ever be a full time SF, he doesn't have the skill, but even Van Gundy and Jackson were both saying last night that he would be a PF in the league. I'm not sold on Wes Johnson either, he's athletic as they come, but nothing screams at me saying he'll be a star, he has nothing resembling a decent handle and he still doesn't have a whole lot of consistency from 3, but again, he's a very good athlete, near elite status, but I'm really not sure of what kind of pro he will turn out to be. I really do think Aldrich is a very safe pick though, man does he have some wide shoulders, I'm just not sure of what kinds of players he'll be able to play next to and be effective, I think he'll have to be with a long, athletic PF that can stretch the D like an Aldridge or a Bosh.
ESPN IS WACK BECAUSE DISNEY RULES THE WOOOOOOORRRRRLLLLLDDDD...
man this post has me dying laughing. some of the same people talking about hype were the same people hyping willie warren( who i think is pretty good) as well as all these freshmen during the summer and how great they all were. the same ones who also will be hyping the next batch of freshman or euro that they happen to read about or see from youtube clips. they will say cant miss stars from day one then when the season gets to the halfway point they will start to turn there back on them. the same as what espn is doing. and what ever player or freshman from a good team has a very good game or 2 (eric bledsoe) then the hype starts up again. but the same people hyping dont look at the whole season just a game or 2 and are scared to say someone isnt as good as they thought at this point or a players is better then they thought. espn is just like on here. alot of people looking for the NEXT. and the thing that really get me is the comparisons, on mock drafts and from some people on here. according to some every first rounder will have all star talent. nevermind the fact that about 90percent of the players in the nba arent stars. i dont know the numbers but can anyone tell me how many of the lotto picks each year end up becomming allstars in the pass 10 years?..yet every lotto pick this year are being compared to a allstar by some. HYPE
I'm telling you guys, don't sleep on Willie Warren...He can do everything that Monta Ellis is doing right now. He may not be a player that you build a team around right now, but he is an All-Star talent offensively. I like him as an instant offense player off the bench, but one with the ability to be a 1st option scorer statistically (ala Ben Gordon) and take the last shots in games.
And for as much as I like Motiejunas' potential, the fact that he's "utterly incapable of rebounding when boxed out" as butidonthavemoney put it is scary to me. That will have to be fixed for him to realize his potential sooner or later. Dirk and Pau are good rebounders, and that's who he is compared to alot so he'll have to play more in the paint. He could be a great player, but he could also be a big bust. I think with Willie Warren, what you see is what you get. He's going to make a living scoring the ball, but we don't know if Motiejunas will be great, because he isn't a good rebounder right now and he is hardly even a presence on D. Those are two things that will have to become alot better for hikm to be the safe pick that some of you are making him out to be...
alot of nba players were high on warren this summer when he worked out and played with them in chicago. the consensus was that he will be a pretty good scorer in the nba which i dont think is impossible. not really sure why people think hes playing bad this year when the fact is his team just isnt that good. you dont lose a player like blake and even to a lower extent his brother and think they are gonna be a hello of a force. tiny is good but hes not blake
Yea, I think they thought that Tiny Gallon would be a great scorer considering how much talent and potenial he has on that end, and rebounder. But he's only been decent scoring while providing good rebounding. But from what I've seen he's a TERRIBLE defender and gives up more points than he can score for the most part. That and the fact that have a very undersized team (they have Tony Crocker playing PF for long stretches, and he's 6'5 175) is the reason for their downfall. Not alot of defense being played at OU...
yeah i noticed that. i was looking at box scores one day and sa croker had 14 rebounds or something like that and i wa slike " how the hell that happened". im sure gallon will get better and by the time hes a jr(maybe a soph) he should be a first round pick
Yea something tells me he'll have a season like Big Baby did that year they made the Final 4 run and boost his draft stock....
yeah i could see that. he has better range then big baby and can get up
quincey, the only difference btwn us hyping someone and espn hyping someone is that we don't make $$ off the hype.