Lets get to it AGAIN...
We already had this convo before about Kobe vs. LeBron and the conclusion was Kobe of course. BUT apparently since they're playing tomorrow, some people still think its a discussion. I thought last year proved enough but it didn't. I thought the first 30 games of this season (if you watch the damn games) proved enough, but it didn't... So we're here once again to debate what we already know (hopefully YOU do) Kobe is the best player on the planet PERIOD... Its like comparing Vanilla Ice to Nas... Yea the Ice man had bigger numbers than Nas, but its no way in hell he's better... SOOOOOOOO....
Kobe won the championship last year, while LBJ quit on his team. Kobe plays in the triangle offense which allows him to play off the ball. LeBron plays in a system similar to NO with Chris Paul, which allows him to inflate his assists... Which in my opinion should be more since the ball is in his hands to start the offense 93% of the time he's on the floor (did the stats for 10 games str8)... Defense? Like I said unless you haven't watched games (um Hum) Chris Brousarrd then stats might show LeBron as better... The third best player in the league D-Wade got SHUT DOWN by Kobe Bryant (while Kobe was giving him buckets) and you dare say Kobe gets the slight edge? The only thing LeBron shuts down is the 40/40 club when he's there with Jay aka Shawn Knowles-Carter(<= too funny Hov)... Now like I said if you have watched either player this year then you would know Kobe has added a revamped post game reminiscent of The Dream, LeBron? His 3 point percentage by 2 percent... That would be fine if his game didn't have more holes than Magic Don Won... If you try to use the team as an excuse well lets look at it... Last time I checked Ben Wallace is averaging 10 boards a game with the Pistons (um please tell me how LBJ make his team better again)... Shannon Brown, an old Cav's bum is playing lights out with Kobe... Sheesh that hurts huh? BUT LBJ has everything he needs... 2 low post scorers in Shaq and Z. Z is a big man that can shoot 15 feet and out... Shooters everywhere... Wing players that can shoot and defend in Moon and Parker... West and Williams can penetrate and dish... Do the Lakers really have a better team or a better star player?
Do this if you disargee with anything I said... Write down how you would build around a star wing player... No names just type of players you need and what specialities they need... And then tell me what in the hell LeBron is missing (other than a better game haha)?...
"Kobe won the championship last year, while LBJ quit on his team"
What the hell do ya mean
I stopped reading right there.........
Few more things to add
Lebron SHUT DOWN Tyreke Evans in crunch time last game
"LeBron plays in a system similar to NO with Chris Paul, which allows him to inflate his assists... Which in my opinion should be more since the ball is in his hands to start the offense 93% of the time he's on the floor "
Ummm.....Kobe's 2005? team
And Tyreke Evans? LOL... I'm sorry a rookie scoring 28 on you is not shutting him down... And I will admit the last 2 possessions of the 4th quarter was good D versus him but one Evans mixed him and blew it and the last was excellent D... (but that's 2 players (LBJ and Tyreke) with O so similar games)... How dare you compare Tyreke to D-Wade!!! And for the other two people who gave me a negative revel yourselves you bums!!!
Ummm.......get your facts right....
He didn't guard him until the 4th qtr, he scored the vast majority of those points with Lebron guarding Greene
I don't follow... Let me know how far you were going to get with this team...
18 Sasha Vujacic PG 6-7 193 1 3/8/84
8 Kobe Bryant SG 6-6 220 9 8/23/78
23 Von Wafer PG 6-5 210 R 7/21/85
1 William "Smush" Parker G 6-4 180 2 6/1/81
11 Devin Green G 6-7 210 R 10/25/82
2 Aaron McKie PG/SG 6-5 210 11 10/2/72
24 Jim Jackson G/F 6-6 220 14 10/14/70
9 Laron Profit G/SF 6-5 204 3 8/5/77
4 Luke Walton SF 6-8 235 2 3/28/80
3 Devean George SF 6-8 240 6 8/29/77
7 Lamar Odom SF 6-10 232 6 11/6/79
43 Brian Cook PF 6-9 234 2 12/4/80
14 Stanislav Medvedenko PF/C
54 Kwame Brown PF/C 7-0 243 4
21 Ronny Turiaf * PF 6-10 249 R
31 Chris Mihm C 7-0 265 5
54 Andrew Bynum .......
And Kobe managed to get that team to the playoffs in the tough West... Not to mention he had one of the best statistical accomplishments for that season... Did you know he was the last person since Jordan 87 to score more than 35 a game?
I really hope you weren't comparing LeBron's team with 3 other All-Stars to this one... PLEASE TELL ME YOU WEREN'T THINKING THAT...
Didn't Evans hit the game tying bucket on LeBron? And like I said are you comparing Tyreke Evans to D-Wade? Seriously?
You must be joking....Surely you don't really think that LeBron has a better "supporting cast" than Kobe haha. Kobe has WAY MORE HELP surrounding him. That being said Kobe is the best player in the league. Playing with a broken finger & doing what he is doing is unbelievable.
Would you rather have:
Artest, Farmar, Brown, Fisher, Odom, Bynum, Gasol, Vujacic, Walton
Gibson, Hickson, Shaq, Big Z, Varejao, Moon, Parker, West, Mo
So to answer your question..it seems the Lakers have a better team & a better star player.
Ohhhh he got them to the playoffs, did he...............
Well guess what
6 Shannon Brown G 6-4 205 11/29/1985 Michigan State R
1 Daniel Gibson G 6-2 190 02/27/1986 Texas R
90 Drew Gooden F-C 6-10 250 09/24/1981 Kansas 4
32 Larry Hughes G 6-5 184 01/23/1979 St. Louis 8
11 Zydrunas Ilgauskas C 7-3 260 06/05/1975 Lithuania 8
23 LeBron James - C F 6-8 240 12/30/1984 St. Vincent-St. Mary HS (OH) 3
19 Damon Jones G 6-3 190 08/25/1976 Houston 8
27 Dwayne Jones F-C 6-11 251 06/09/1983 Saint Joseph's 1
24 Donyell Marshall F 6-9 230 05/18/1973 Connecticut 12
14 Ira Newble F-G 6-7 220 01/20/1975 Miami (Ohio) 6
3 Aleksandar Pavlovic F 6-7 210 11/15/1983 Montenegro 3
31 Scot Pollard C-F 6-11 265 02/12/1975 Kansas 9
20 Eric Snow - C G 6-3 205 04/24/1973 Michigan State 11
17 Anderson Varejao C-F 6-10 240 09/28/1982 Brazil 2
4 David Wesley
Lebron got this crappy ass team to the FINALS
Stop it you sound ignorant
The Lake Show could challenge for the Western Conference title without Kobe in my opinion....Odom would step up and Odom, Bynum, Artest and Gasol would be a damn good team...Not a Championship winner but I could see them winning the West...Really do believe that.
The Lakers are stacked, and with Gasol, Bynum, Artest, Odom and soon Kobe all locked up till like 2014 I see no reason why the Lakers won't be a dynasty.
I hate to say it but it's true
I'll smile as I agree with gatorheels we have the best team and the best player. Hope it's a great game tomorrow. As for carrying their teams, both guys have done it in the past. Lebron carried a sorry cavs team to the finals although i don't think that team get's out the first round in the west and they were the spurs easiest opponent in the playoffs, but that's not lebron's fault at all. And Kobe had Kwame, Smush and Luke starting alongside him when he won 45 games and pushed Nash's suns to 7 games.
I don't see a huge difference...
Its a few things about teams that people need to understand...
I might confuse you a little bit but hear me out...
Odom and Gasol are the only two players I believe have enough juice without Kobe or Phil to have successful careers... (I'm not mentioning Artest just yet)...
What I'm saying is the start of 2007, Farmar, Brown, Fisher, Bynum, Vujacic, and Walton was looked at as bums who was going to be out the league in a couple of years... D-Fish was looked at as a solid role man... That's it...
My point to this is to show how great Kobe REALLY is... Because he took these players and groomed them into contributors and role players... I'm the first one to admit Kobe wasn't the best leader but he grew and its showing... His swag and confidence is enough to rub off... Let alone his work ethic... The Olympics? It was no coincidence that after that summer EVERY U.S.A. player stepped up his game last year... From Melo, Wade, LeBron, Howard....? They witnessed his work ethic and applied to their game... Hell Jordan didn't like the Olympics for real because that showed other Superstars how hard he worked to be the games best...
Every player you mention on the Cavs has a speciality or already established himself prior to joining the Cavs... So the teams really aren't that much different... The only wild card is Ron Artest because of what he brings to the defensive end as a lock-down defender... Other than that they have the same make-up...
So basically I'm saying Kobe is the reason why you can call Bynum, BROWN, Farmar, Walton, and Sasha assets...
to be honest farmer ,fisher and bynum werent gonna be out of the leauge without kobe..maybe walton...bynum was 20 at the time so of course he wasnt gonna be real good after coming straight from hs at the age of 17 and being raw. fisher was a good nba player and played pretty well with the warriors and with the jazz. and teams have been trying to get farmar for awhile now. on that note the fakers do have a much better team then the cavs but that faker team that one 45 games was worst the the cavs team that mad eit to the finals. and they played in the west. i wouldnt not have been suprised if they went to the finals if they were in the east but i dont think the cavs would have gotten out of the first round in the west. the better all around player is lebron just like magic was a better overall player then jordan when they played because of size and they could do more. but kobe is the best player right now and i believe if he was on the cavs he would be getting a good 35plus points with 7reb and probably 5 assist. and since the teams arent as good in the east he might score a lil more. i think th fakers will win tommorrow but ill be hoping and rooting for the cavs
Let me get in that a$$...
Larry Hughes average 20 a year before that and lead the league in steals... Z was an all-star big man... Donyell got a 45 mil deal from them because he average 20 and 10 before that WHILE being a big man that can shoot 3's... Gooden was a rebounder that gave you 10 and 10 (very underrated journeyman<= do you see the Mavs?) Shannon Brown was a bum on that team!!! With 3 point shooter EVERYWHERE...
Go look at the Lakers that year... You can't stretch the floor without 3 point shooters... The only one was MAYBE Devan George... And it proves my point that the Cav's went out and got players to surround that boy and he still can't get it done... What is LeBron missing to win a ring? They spent over 90 mil. that off-season for him...
And taking that team to the Finals in the East? It was really impressive what he did versus the Pistons, but who did he play in the first 2 rounds again? 3 teams in the playoffs at .500 or worse... And the Cavs played 2 of them damn teams to get to the damn Eastern Conference Finals... I thought LeBron was going to be the best player in the league after that Detroit series, then brought back to reality in the Finals when he got swept...
Be on the look out for it... Its going to mention LeBron... Haha!!!
yes lebron did have that and thats why they got to the finals so he did his job and the team did theres but they werent better then the spurs. i mean this is a spurs team that was very very very good. i cant blame lebron for that one bit. you can only do so much with that team ya know. some of ya;ll need to understand that you dont have to put a player down to make another player seem better because all that does is make you look bias and it actually makes youre arguement weaker instead of stronger even if youre right
when did lebron have three allstars? i'm not talking about 10 years ago i'm talking about current allstars, he currently only has two and shaq was only an allstar because he is popular. if the third is ilgauskas then your talking ancient history. Also kobe is a better shooter then lebron and mabye a little better on perimeter D but that is it. lebron has passing, rebounding, blocking and leadership. when kobe had that bad team listed above do you remember what he wanted before the season even started? A TRADE, he demanded to be traded and almost ended up on Chicago. When Kobe didn't have it his way he pouted, someone buy his ass a happy meal.
Lastly you said lebron quit on his team after the lose to orlando, how do you quit and average 38 points a game against a very good defender in Petrius and Howard behind him?
they were comparing kobes old team and lebrons old team not the team now. and can ya'll learn to seperate youre personal dislike for a player or some of there off the court actions and there skills on the court?..it really isnt hard. i hate the fakers but i can still be aknowledge and give a unbiased opinion
How about that one?
I can name only one series that LeBron's team had a hard time and they won...
This what kills me... What has LeBron accomplished? What did he do? What in the hell did he do to become the best player on the planet, jump high and run fast? Average 25, 7, and 7? So, let me get this str8 if you are the best athlete and stuff the stat sheet your the best player? Whatever happened to the little things? Like being unstoppable on the offensive end or locking your man up on the defensive end? Maybe I'm biased because I'm looking at basketball thru the eyes of a person who watched Jordan transcend the sport and the definition of G.O.A.T. Jordan didn't have any flaws, it was no way you could stop him on any given possession but to double team him, maybe triple team him... So, when I view the best player playing today, I look at those credentials and apply it him... And the player that is close to that is Kobe... No holes what so ever... Accomplishments? 1st team all-defensive teams, scoring titles, scoring records, and CHAMPIONSHIPS... I say by far its only one player Kobe... But apparently that's not the way to do it... Apparently you compare the greatest right now with how many triple-doubles he has, because if you fill the stat sheet you can do ANYTHING on the court... I've never seen the best player in the game get the ball with 10 seconds left at the top of the key and the player guarding him backs up 3 feet, DARING him to shoot... Keep in mind the game is tied... Never seen that versus Jordan, Kobe, hell Wade, Melo, Drexler, McGrady, Stockton, Nash, Bird, Magic... Wow... That's new to me...
That's how you feel... This is all opinion... This is my opinion versus everyone else's... I'm from the double O... My ex knows this guy... Its not hate believe me I USED to be a fan till his game started to get complacent like Allen Iverson... He's a great player, but its hard for me to dub a guy (or to even like him) if he don't improve his game from season to season... Especially if he has holes... Jordan and Kobe always added things to there games in the off-season... I just don't feel that way about LBJ... Hell Kobe is 30 with a complete game and still refining his game...
And the arguments, you need to understand that's how you win it... I'm competitive not matter what it is, so any and every argument I'ma try and win... Prosecutors don't go in the court room saying the defendant is a good person, but made some mistakes... LOL... I'm in it to win it!!!
when lebron switched to tyreke in the fourth quarter and overtime tyreke went 1-8, lebron wasn't guarding him in the first three quarters.
and as for lebron not adding things to his game, watch a game from his rookie year and know and compare the jump shot, his form is know consistent and he is releasing the ball the same way where as in his rookie year he was just chucking it up however he felt. also last year lebron made a commitment to improve his free throw percentage and he shot a career high in free throw percentage. he has improved on his post up game, watch a rerun of the orlando series, when rashard lewis was guarding him he backed him down and finished either over him or with an up and under, i'm not saying he has a good post offence but he is developing it.
i'm also confused by you saying filling up a stat sheet doesn't mean your good, so scoring a lot and not rebounding or assisting makes you good? If so then yea kobe's great and wade,lebron,paul,and howard are garbage.
lebron has shown his leadership by simply not pointing fingers and taking loses as they come, i know your going to say "he didn't shake dwights hand after they lost" if you and me were competing for the thing you care most about and i beat you would you shake my hand and buy me a beer? Lebron later apologized for that and paid the rediculous 25,000 fine. when the lakers lost to the pistons two things happened. Kobe said he needed the ball more and shaq said he needed the ball more, both were critized but they ended up trading shaq to apease kobe (can't blame them). the only time i can think of lebron saying something negative about his team is two years ago when they lost to the celtics, but all he said was "we need help" he didn't blame any player or coach or water boy. lebron since his rookie year has taken the ball in late game situations and tried to win, he has had plenty of mishaps but who wouldn't in their first view years? (kobe did don't try it, he airballed three three's in the final minutes of a playoff game but he was young so it's cool)
You can say kobe is a better perimeter defender, you can definetely say he is a better shooter. But how is he better?
tuck i like how you claimed lebron james needs a better game when the guy's jersey that you're representing (mcgrady) is averaging 3 ppg...
man you guys are all goofy right now. Step back from the hate talk and give respect to both players. Tuck, you are making kobe fans look bad by dissing on lebron the way you are. And I in Win, you ask how anyone can say KObe is better then Lebron???, because i , like many others who are knowledgable of the game, think he is. It's like the more biased one side acts, the more biased the other side has to respond. These two are close and it is up for debate. But some of you seem to act like it is comparing Ali with Tommy Morison. And yes, I think Kobe is way more skilled while lebron is a far better physical specimen. Who's more valuable is up for grabs.
what does youre ex knowing him have to do with anything we are talking about?...and lebron has improved his game every year...hes improved defense he's improved his jumper he's improved being more clutch...hes not a finished product..dont forget hes only 24 so he has 6 years to add more to his game to get as good as kobe who is 30 or 31
exactly perez22 thats what im talking about. you dont have to put one player down to prove a point or to build another up.. i dont liek the fakers but i do think kobe is the best player in the nba but lebron is right behind him basically right on him. neither player can win a title alone and team wise the lakers are alot better then the cavs..i think they could still win a title with lebron or dwade in replace of kobe , thats how good i think his supporting cast is. i also think without kobe it wouldnt suprise me if they made it to the finals. gasol is a second team nba player bynum could be a second team all nba player i mean other then the celtics is there any other team that has 3 players that can be first second or third team all nba plus a sixth man of the year and 2 possible all nba defensive team.....damn i hate the lakers..lol
Doing the little things that win games... Playing your man 50 feet from the basketball, having that killer instinct to dominate and be SELFISH when its time to win, adding things to your game so no one can stop you... I'm a fan of watching LeBron James play... Its entertainment!!! The way he dunks, throws no look passes, and block shots from behind its highlights EVERY night... BUT when I'm asked who is the best player in the NBA, I feel like its disrespectful to the game and prior players to say LBJ is the best... Even NEAR the best... My question is who is the top players of all-time? MJ, Bird, Magic, and who? Kobe of course... I take so extreme of a side because its protecting the game of basketball from these d!ck riders who watched someone for 5 years and dub him top 5 player of all-time (its Exactly what you doing)... Right now!!! I looked at a Tracy McGrady or Kobe Bryant at 24 and its was no way to stop them offensively... They had no holes in there game, but a little too selfish... But that's how Larry was, Jordan was, and Magic (for a PG)... So when I witness this massive force of a man become one of the best players in the world, I put him up against the Jordan's, Larry's, and Magic's... He didn't have it... And NOW we have a man who is DOMINATING this sport by his play and confidence, the real heir to MJ's throne and people AREN'T giving him his proper due... People are so enamored by LeBron that they forget how can an incomplete player be the games best WHEN there is someone here with NO HOLES, Accomplishments, and Stats to prove he is the Don dodda...
Its not hate that you read from me... Its frustration from a fan of basketball who watched the game since the G.O.A.T. was picked 3rd overall by the Chicago Bulls... Its time, hard-work, experiences, mistakes, adversity, challenges, to become the games best... To separate yourself from the pack... LeBron hasn't done ANYTHING!!! He hasn't faced adversity, people don't criticize his game, his play... When Kobe was losing in the first round they say he's selfish... LeBron team dominates the whole season and playoffs, but loses in the Conference Finals, the blame? He has NO HELP? Where is the pressure?
And NO "I in win" it wasn't about him shaking hands or talking to reporters (that's a personal flaw, not basketball), but the way he gave up in Game 6... The way he just took the ball and pounded it to the ground in Game 5... He failed to realize what got him there... His team... His game isn't great enough to score in bunches every game... Once every 5 games (maybe) he can dominate like that, but its so many flaws to his offensive game that if you take away his driving lane its a wrap... My thing is stop saying all the things he's doing right and tell me what he's doing wrong... What is he missing? Kobe is playing FLAWLESS basketball right now and no one will be able to tell me what he can do better to help his game... Nothing... I'm just so confused as to why Kobe winning a MVP, a Gold Medal, a Ring, and Finals MVP and people STILL say that's not enough to be the games best? He can do whatever he wants on the offensive end and shut you down on the defensive end, but still there is someone better in the world? Without Kobe, LeBron doesn't get a Gold Medal... All I'm saying is give LeBron time... Let the man develop his game enough to be better than Kobe, Larry, Magic, and Jordan... Don't don him as the greatest of all-time... Because the formula you guys are giving me, LeBron is better than MJ... Without a team LeBron is averaging 28, 7, and 7 for his career... Jordan 30, 6, and 5 with one... The thing is when Stats are so similar you look at the game... The players ACTUAL game... And Jordan was light years better than LeBron... So why is that feeling isn't the same for Kobe and LeBron?
to know he's a good friend and good person... So I don't HATE the man personally...