Lopez was double teamed EVERY play (maybe 20 touches) of the nets/lakers game and yet he has out played, out defended and outsmarted Bynum.
Bynum was not double teamed once and had 10-12 touches in his limited action while only having one field goal. (the game is still in progress but i think Bynum just fouled out...)
Bynum cant even stay on the floor. Lopez is clearly more advanced than Bynum since he is in the mix defensively of every single play and does not foul every time down the court. This is a skill--being able to not constantly foul people-- is a skill.
Lopez is double teamed all the time and yet gets 20, 10 every night with very very good percentages. He doesnt foul everyone on every play and knows how to play. His teams woes should not penalize his standing as the second best center in the league.
In my opinion and many others, Lopez is the clear cut #2 best center in the league.
also he was doubled because NJ has no other reliable scoring threat
right, but he still produces at a very high level. If Bynum was doubled he would have 8 turnovers and 5 offensive fouls.
There are only two other big men in the league today who are doubled as much as Brook. Dirk and Dwight. Everyone else gets easier buckets.
lol..are you serious?..thats youre reasoning? and lopez isnt double teamed everynight..how many nets games have you watched?..cuz if you have watched them you would know hes not double teamed every night. the lakers send double teams to everyone down low by the way so they can get a steal. so if we are gonna go by one game should i say that who ever out plays kobe in a game is the better shooting guard?..this is kinda laughable with the resonings..so the fatc that before gasol came back bynum was puttin gup better points reb and shooting at a high fg percentage just goes right out the window huh? and of course the nets wont double him because what team in there right mind would double a laker player when there are 4 other guys who can light you up?
and bynum played 11 mintues tonight . so using some peoples logic can we say kevin martin is a top 3 shooting guard?
lopez has awful percentages for a center i dont know what your are talkin about. And if he was as good as you say he is he would get his team more than 2 wins. I dont get the love that the nets young players get. They way people rate them, Harris is an all star and apparently a top 5-6 pg in the league, lopez is a top 2 center, CDR steal of the draft, Lee next superstar, Twill get unnecessary hype as well he has been CRAZY inefficient. So with all these great young players they are 2-25!?!? dont give me the injury excuse they have been healthy for more than half the season so far (yi is not an excuse).
lol. i like broks game an di do think hes good but i also take into account that ther eteam sucks so production has to come from somewhere and if someone is the second best at there position i expect them get there teams more wins. and dwade,lebron,cp3 get doubled alot more then brook just to name a few. on top of that if youre playing against the nets and you know they dont have alot of options dont you send doubles to there best scoring options?
it is data amongst a ton of other data that supports my claim that Lopez is better than Bynum. It isnt my sole reasoning.
I have watched every f*cking Nets game since they started the preseason. Lopez is doubled at least 5 times each night (and recently 75% of his touches) since the 4th game of the season.
Obviously you dont watch Nets games. Look up the data dude.
As for players who succeed by being able to stay on the floor. Being able to stay on the floor is a skill--do you even play/watch basketball? You arent useful to your team if you cannot stay on the court.
Find out the data of which big men today are most double teams quicny, go ahead, ill be waiting to hear what you come up with---you will find that its Dwight and Lopez leading the pack.
The fact that a player can dominate with a double team supports my claim. I have also watched over 10 Lakers games this season and when Bynum has played he has never been doubled but he gets as many touches as Lopez, yet he cannot produce.
I said Big men quincy, read what other people say so you dont waste my time by having to read your non-researched posts.
?..if thats the case how come bynum, averaged 22 and 11 rebs before gasol came back if he doesnt produce as much as brook?..but you say yet he cant produce??..lol..i dont think brooks averages have gotten to that yet...you watch all there games so you tell me?...and if i score alot of points on a horrible team then what does that mean?...so are you saying kevin maritn is the best 2 guard and danny granger is the best sf?..
The Nets had only 8 players (and only 1 starter for half their young season)..
I didn;t know team records was indicative of a players personal skill level--considering it is a TEAM sport. Brook doesnt have a team you dumbass. This is a team sport and unless you are Tim Duncan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Shaq, or Michael Jordan you cannot win without a competent team.
2-25 only indicates that this young bad team had injuries combined wiht being bad (true) but they also had one of the toughest schedules in Nov and Dec.
Look you are dumb if you can deduct that a player cannot be the second best center in the league because their team is player poorly.
Name one other center that would have made their record better than 2-25.... Oh please say Bynum.. LOL that would be hilarious.
i hate to dog brooks sinc eim a big fan but ....if you are blowing out a team by half time or the third quarter then you put in youre bench players while the other team leave sin there starters doesnt that mean youre starters are usually gonna get better stats then the players on the other team? and even with brooks playing more minutes bynum was putting up better numbers while gasol was out so how in the world can you say he doesnt produce?
are you able to comprehend!?
Bynum is NEVER double teamed. Have you ever played ball before dude? Now, do you play better when you are double teamed or when you are not doubled teamed?
If you want statistical evidence, since you seam to think you are providing such with your "22" and "11" look at Bynums CAREER AVERAGES> HIS ROOKIE > SOPHOMORE > AND PER AVERAGES.
why do i even bother writing on this website. ....jesus christ.
TRIANGLE QUICNY! THATS YOUR ANSWER! BIGS ARE REWARDED WITH PHIL JACKSONS SYSTEM!!! HOLY SH*T
so that means nene is better then brook right since when they played brook had 5pts and 3 reb while nene had 17 and 9?..and youre intitled to youre OPINION that brook is better then bynum just like my OPINION is bynum is better then brook. its opinions not facts. not sure why you are getting so worked up and doing the name calling thing though... is brook youre brother or son or something?...and why do you have to make youre point by making brook seem so great then at the same time try to make bynum seem like hes a average center? you can make all the excuses you want about twhy the nets are bad but they are bad and putting up number son a bad team pretty much has to be taken with a grain of salt. have you ever seen a guy on a bad team get mvp?
what does career averages have to do with today? by youre logic kevin marin would be better then kobe since im sure he sees more double teams on a bad team. bynum came into the leauge at 17..how old was brook when he came into the leauge?..21? 22?..so the triangle is the reason bynum does what he does huh?..it hasnt nothing to do with him being good?...sorry but i never hear on tnt or espn or read in the paper about how bad bynum is or how he only does what he does because of the triangle.. but like i said it YOU'RE OPINION and youre more then welcome to continue to try to pass you're opinion as fact . but no matter how many time you post or how many names you call people in the end its just you're opinion
Think about it sociologically. The lakers are a MUCH bigger market right. Brook is getting as much attention today nationally from the nowhere-nets-market as the super saturated Bynum. Now considering Lakers bias (oh yes they do have so much freakin bias), dont you think the Lakers fan base would be eating up the CONSISTENT TIM DUNCAN LIKE REBOUNDING SOFT SHOOTING DEFENSIVE BIG MAN name Lopez--honestly, if Lopez was on the Lakers the Lakers would be calling him the next Wilt Chamberlain.
and liek you said youre a nets fan and you watch all the nets game im a laker fan and i watch all the lakers game and i need to correct you. youre wrong about bynum never being double teamed because he does get double teammed. not so much now that gasol is back but before gasol came back he would get double teammed and still score. pretty much hes a better scorer and rebounder then lopez. does lopex even get double figure rebounds a game?
and no because it doesnt matter to the lakers since they beat them easily. teams dont cre if you rack up stats when you getting blown out the building because in the end the only thing that matters is who wins the game. its easy to say if lopez was on the lakers but heres the thing.....HE'S NOT. so how bout we dont play the hypothetical game and stick to reality
and yeah theres laker bias,..just liek theres nets bias.. you have a bias for brook just like i have a bias for bynum...so im not seeing youre point as far as that. but like i was saying before is nene better then brook since he out played him badly?..not once but twice
talking about Kevin Martin as analogous to this makes no sense since Kobe Bryant himself was more double teamed in his past than he is today.
We arent talking about wing players either for most of their skill is perceived as successful through
play making with clutch factors also being considered.
Big men are different. They dominate and change the game by good defense, being realiable (also staying in the game), opening up the half court by giving the team a true offensive threat and rebounding and picks and rolls.
But most importantly we arent comparing Kevin Martin to Kobe. We are comparing Brook Lopez to Bynum. I am not only using the fact that Lopez is doubled teamed to support my claim, it is just further evidence that he is more proficient.
Look, you either get it or you dont. Bynum isnt bad but he is closer to Kendick Perkins than Brook Loepz. And theres a difference.
Just because the Lakers adopted him doesnt mean he is better than he is.
so you go by one game or by all the games combined?...before gasol came back to take some min shots and rebs how many pts and rebounds did bynum average a game..it was a double double right?..i dont think brook is averaging a double double. and shouldnt brook be putting up better stats if hes playing more minutes then every center he faces since the game is usually out of hand by the time the fourth quarter rolls around so the other teams best players sit
so nene is better then brook?..he out played him ech tme they played
and i find it funny that just because im not agreeing with you you taking away my points....you are taking this a bit too personal for a person who isnt even related to the guy. then you give youre self 2 points just for putting arrows in youre post!!!!..lol
lol..bynum is closer to kendrick perkins??...you cant be serious.?..ok that right there shows how much hate you have for bynum to even say hes close to kendrick perkins
I dont even use points or give a &$#%#&@! about them LOL
I guess other people agree with what I say-and I guess I have a fan or two.
Look you are boring me. You would LOVE to have Brook Lopez on your team over Bynum. Even if its just for his overwhelming consistency. Whats funny is that your Lakers and fan base would be calling him the best center EVER--
one- no we wouldnt want brooks over bynum
2- yeah people give you points just for putting up arrows on youre post and you happen to get points exactly after you put them up.
3- putting up great stats on a bad team gets you where exactly?
admit it you just need something to hang on to because youre team sucks.. you know you wanna be a laker fan and be part of winning admit it. i mean i understand they are so bad you gotta go "if, if if"..but sadly we dont live in if world. brook would love to play for the lake show and im sure he would agree to come to the land of greatness if he had a chance. unfortunatly he just has to be happy with putting up stats on a bad team
and i notice you still wont comment on the nene being better then brook question... i mean according to youre logic nene is better because he did out play hi..and shut him completely down
ive watched him before and after and before gasol came back there wasnt one thing brook was doing better then bynum...bynum fg percentage was wayyy higher.. much better rebounder and much better scorer. hes shown what he can do when he has to. now that gasol is back he doesnt have to do as much which is what i rather have anyway. save the enrgy for when we play the good teams in the playoffs. and if we over estimate him then you can add all the tnt espn abc and nbc crew who also overestimate him. as well as al the teams( yes youre nets inquired) that were making offers to get bynum 2 seasons ago
HAHAHAHA DUDE YOU ARE RETARDED, THOSE POSTS WITH ARROWS HAD MORE INFORMATION TO ENLIGHTEN YOU BUT I DELETED THEM BECAUSE I REALIZED I WAS BEING MEAN > BUT NOW I DONT REALLY CARE QUICY
oh &$#%#&@! yea! Kidd I got your back too bro. Good looking out this guys an idiot.
right..which is why when you signed on his name went offline..lol...ill let ya'll too chat then since you like talking to youre self. keep up the losing in jersey and putting up good stats on a horrible team. while the lakers keep adding wins and go for yet another right...dun dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn...lol...peaceeeeeeeeeeeeee
i give my self points because i have low self esteem... whats your reason gcb3?
becuase my penis is small...
are we done pretending. i didn't give myself one point motha fockers.
but whatever, if you believe Bynum is so good im sure you can believe whatever else you want. :)
naw ima kings fan and i like lopez better then bynum BUT the only reason hes getting doubled is cuz hes on the worst team in the league..btw nets are my pick to go all the way this year in the D-league
This is Bynum's 5th season compared to Lopez's 2nd, so I'll give Bynum the edge at this point due to the learning and playing experience he's gained with the Lakers.
However, Lopez is good. He's REALLY good. Knocking him for playing on a bad team is just wrong. It's not his fault his team traded Vince Carter. It's not his fault Devin Harris was injured. It's not his fault his team is really young. He's had a few bad games, but he's brought it every night for the most part.
I'll give Bynum the edge at this point, but I'd take Lopez going forward. I just think he'll be that good.
not to ruin your back and forth argument but brook is the second best center in the nba and i think in a few years he will be the best simply because howard has shown he won't develop much more. Also bynum, in contradiction to his numbers, isn't a great rebounder and makes poor decision when, if ever, double teamed.
That is not a good arguement for Lopez but I do think he is top 5 Center in the NBA and could be the 2nd or 3rd best. His offensive game is more polished than Bynum but I dont know if his defense is better than Bynums.
how mad are you gcb? damn
harris has shown everyone that he is nothing special if he doesnt have a superstar next to him
AND YES if how you say a team has an all star pg AND a number 2 center in the league... they are like 2-16 when they are both healthy
the team is pathetic and players like CDR and lopez (who is a pretty good center) get overvalued because they HAVE to do so much. CDR on a good team is a NOBODY, Lopez is an ilgauskas if he isnt forcing shots and shooting 6-16 with 5 turnovers. Devin Harris your all star PG averages like 4 assist per game and shoots 36%. What happened to all the Nets fan saying Lee is the next Rip Hamilton, turns out Anderson by himself is better than Lee. That whole team is pathetic so stop bugging out its not my fault.
Yes they were hurt for a while but they have been pretty healthy for a while now and they still get ABUSED, not lose...ABUSED. They were down &$#%#&@! 40 in TORONTO!!!!
It is clearly a team game but people keep overrating these young players on the nets, Twill is the least efficient player drafted in the first round, but even he gets decent numbers cuz the team blows so bad he has to get shots. Im not even going to add the fact that most teams play their starters for like 25-30 minutes against the nets. Yes i have watched some games and seen how they inflate their own averages by making pointless little runs in the fourth against the dj mnbengas of the nba. You spread that whole roster across normal NBA teams and their averages all drop by 4-5 points easy.
and yes if you tell me there is a team with an nba all star pg who net fans say is the top 5 pg in the league, a top 2 center in the league, a steal of last years draft that nets fans crown a future 6th man of the year, the young rip hamilton and one of the "most versatile rookies" of the previous draft... I would expect them to have more than 2 wins in a very weak eastern conference. Sure they were injured at one point but since they have been mostly healthy NOTHING has changed. Actually no wait it has changed...they were more competitive when they were all hurt.
I understand the fervor about these rankings, but does it really matter? The center position is the weakest its been in years and is by a wide margin the shallowest position in the NBA. Outside of Howard there are no first option, build your team around, franchise centers (Yao counts too, but hes injured a lot). Lopez is just a better free throw shooting Bogut. Bynum is a quicker Perkins with upside. There are plenty of servicable big men who can score a bit or defend the post, but the Alonzos, Ewings, Robinsons, Olajuwons and Shaqs just arent around anymore. The premiere post position is power forward because the nature of the position suits the finesse of today's game better. However I still think nothing tops the pressence of a legit post up big man, as evidenced by the success of Tim Duncan and Shaq.
I totally agree with you on Lopez. Prior to the start of the season, I made an extensive forum post indicating my ranking for top C's in the league for the 09-10 season. When I had Lopez ranked 3rd overall behind Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson, I received countless bashing. He's arguably the 2nd best Center right now (I am not sure if Minnesota in bringing Jefferson back slowly; he's only getting 33 mpg). People were even saying Nene was better than Lopez, and I surely wasn't in agreement with that (though I am a big Nene fan).
Bynum is definitely a benefactor from all the help he has with Gasol and Lamar Odom, both unselfish big men that command a lot of attention when they are on the court. Not to mention the attention Kobe receives. Lopez has absolutely no help down low. NONE. He starts along side Josh Boone. Bynum just has to receive the pass out of the double team on Gasol, or pick up lose change when the bigs on his team miss a shot. Bynum also get's a lot of his blocked shots as a help defender, where Lopez typically guards the player all the way to the basket to block a shot. Not trying to totally discredit Bynum's talent, but his job is so much less strenuous compared to Lopez on offense and defense. Bynum is also inconsistent in rebounding, and has a tendency to get into foul trouble. That's why his minutes are low 30 mpg as opposed 35mpg+. Not exactly something you can say about Lopez. This is without even mentioning how much more poslished Lopez's offensive game is.
You can praise Bynum as much as you'd like, but you cannot honestly say he's a better player over Lopez.
i have to say ....its hard to say. i like both big men better then i like howard but i do think howard is the best center..alex i kinda see where youre coming from butbynum doesnt play as much more so because the fakers, oops i mean lakers have paul and odom so bynum doesnt need to play awhole lot. lopez has josh boone and who knows who else so he has to play more. right now i can say lopez is better because he has to be better. he gets more minutes and more touches. but i also can see where quincy is coming from because when gasol was the main focus he was putting up better numbers then lopez. i dont like the lakers( heat and bulls fan) but i have seen there games since they tend to play on national tv and before paul came back bynum was easiley the second best center int he nba and at one point he has the best center n the nba. its kinda hard to decide now because if you put a all nba pf next to lopez his numbers will go down across the board. i do think lopez has more moves but hes just as inconsistant at rebounding because he has games where he gets about 6 reb. its just hard to really tell because of what. bkballer said also about lopez playing most of the game then the other starting center's and how alot of his numbers come against the second unit. id gladly take bynum or lopez in chi town and miami though
Welcome to the site Beasy! You're starting off with a bang... That was well said.
thanks...it gave me great pain to praise a laker though..lol..
It's all good lol... That tells me I can expect honest and unbiased opinions from you.
yeah.thats the best way to get a fair assesment about a player
this is 2 bkballer... he said and i quote
"lopez has awful percentages for a center i dont know what your are talkin about. And if he was as good as you say he is he would get his team more than 2 wins. I dont get the love that the nets young players get. They way people rate them, Harris is an all star and apparently a top 5-6 pg in the league, lopez is a top 2 center, CDR steal of the draft, Lee next superstar, Twill get unnecessary hype as well he has been CRAZY inefficient. So with all these great young players they are 2-25!?!? dont give me the injury excuse they have been healthy for more than half the season so far (yi is not an excuse)."
riddle me this genius.... how are 48% fg shooting and 85% free throw shooting awful percentages... u are just a retard...
basically theres no clear cut answer with these 2. id give the edge to bynum as far as the future and potential because at his best he has played better then lopez at his best.
a center shooting 48% is not good genius, good big men shoot like 55%
TD - 55%
Bynum - 57%
Pau Gasol - 56%
Marc Gasol - 61%
Amare - 55%
Nene - 58%
Jermaine O'neal - 56%
Horford - 58%
Perkins - 64%
old Shaq - 52%
Okafor - 54%
Speights - 56%
Howard - 63%
Haywood - 53%
even an undersized david lee shoots 57%
i can keep going, as a matter of fact only 3-4 starting centers in the NBA probably have a lower percentage than Lopez.
do you research before you call someone names buddy =]
on nba.com lopez is number 14 out of 20 for shooting percentages