Greg Oden = Bust?
Well duncan has been a 4 most of his career but i respect your opinion i would pick Bynum and Oden because i consider tim a 4.
I'd take Chris Kaman, Nene' and Okur over Oden as well out West too...as the current 2 best Centers.
Was always injured and is undersized for the center spot...Kaman is nice, but really he isn't much of a factor on defense and put up good stats on a bad team..Okur just shoot's. He's never going to win you a title...Just ask Jazz fans they'll tell you...Not saying these guys are bad, but they have faced many of the same problems as Oden.
Double post, apologies
I'm glad you dont run my team. Nene was injury prone till he was like what 27 now he's had a good season and you want him who's like 6'9 over Oden? Interesting concept there...Don't see the continuity in your logic. Seems short sighted
He said who would I pick if I had 2 centers to choose from. I would take all of them currently. I'm not sure who wouldn't take them over Oden right now. He didn't say who would you draft...so yes, this was short-sighted, as it was a question about the short term.
Not saying these guys are bad, but they have faced many of the same problems as Oden.
But they actually play enough games to give an honest evaluation about. The only one that has faced the same problems as Oden is Nene', and he proves to be productive and effective when he plays, to an even higher level than Oden.
heres my take. i think Portland knew Durant would be good. really good. but they saw how dominant of a post dfender and rebounder Oden is. heres another question. how many points would Durant score if he was sharing the ball with Roy and Aldridge? yes more than Oden but Oden right now isnt there yet but hes one of the best rebounders in the league and ppost defenders. yes Durant is better now but Oden is just a better fit Roy Aldridge needs theit shots and hes a guy if he can stay healthy who can give them 15 12 3 i think Durants better but hes no bust unless you say hes hes a bust because hes a little worse than Durantif he could stay healthy he would be almost as good and a better fit.
Actually Oden is more effective than all 3 of those other guys you named. This season's effeciency ratings up to this point:
Greg Oden 23.3
So let me guess...Greg Oden is better than them too?
No one on here advocating Oden, is saying anything preposterous. Everyone is admitting he's injury-prone, and he still has a lot to prove. But to say he' a bust or not productive is just not true. I've seen a load of posts with constructive counter points as to why Oden is a top center when he was healthy and why he still has a good chance to become highly successful on the pro level. Arugements against just have been lacking. I won't repeat everything but "Mikethadon" had a very good long post that summed up alot of things me and bryant and gator heels and gredoden08 and others have been pointing out, over and over and over. Obviously there is a disagreement so maybe at this point lets let time do the talking. Fact is he's only 21 or 22 so we have to wait...Lets re-visit this in 4 years ; )
I wish the best of luck to Oden and really think he will succeed, on an All-Star caliber level during his career.
I bet....Trust me, no one else would. Not if this isn't an NBA draft....which of course, it isn't.
This argument started to heat up all because Greg Oden went down again... PONY! Let's Get It On!
Nah, but I can add and subtract. I can see their production is more than what Oden offers..
Apparently you can't.... I just showed you the effeciency ratings I mean cmon son.
You think Okur, Kaman, & Nene are better than Oden why? Because they simply score more? Haha what a joke.
Have you ever thought about FG%, defensive presence...?
Dude, Okur's numbers are not better than Oden's...Plus he plays more minutes than Oden did. Oden is a way better defender than Nene and blocks more shots than all of them. Kaman, yeah he's really good I can see why, but he's no threat at all on defense and isn't an anchor that Oden is...Plus, he's featured in the offense more...Way more.
I agree Gator. Good post.
They all score more and rebound more (except Okur). Plus those efficiency ratings are misleading due to Oden playing less minutes and taking less shots. That's not a true evaluation of who's better anyway. It just shows who takes better or easier shots. You can take shots exclusively off of catch and finishes and your efficiency ratings would be threw the roof. If you have anything of a real scoring role, where you have to create shots for yourself, as all the guys I mentioned have, your efficiency rating would be lower than a catch and finish player like Oden. It's misleading. I don't see how anyone could think Oden is better than any of the players I named. I don't know what it is about Oden that has all y'all so excited, but it's strange. Especially since he has proven nothing but any of what I've said. I'm giving all the facts, but for some odd reason, Oden is better than Okur and Nene' and Kaman, when he has proven the opposite in actual games and everything.
They rebound more...They play more. You really think any of those guys are better than Oden at rebounding? Come on man he had 20 boards in like 30 minutes a couple of games ago. Oden is special at rebounding and blocking shots. Don't deny that. If Oden was on the Clipps and played heavy minutes he could easily put up 16-18 ppg and doing it very efficiently.
Seriously, we need to dead this. This is on some John Bryant on crack stuff. I give a player 5 years before I call him a bust. You can say so and so should have picked so and so, but honestly, it changes a team so drastically as to who they pick, the likelihood of a team having all their current players had they taken a Chris Paul or Kevin Durant is just not their. It is fantasy, which is fine if you like Magic Cards or still play Dungeons and Dragons. But, as for what it takes to build a winning basketball team, than, I stay with my 22 year old potentially All-Star Center to go with my booming young team. Kevin Durant is fantastic, but as far as winning goes, seems like he has not necessarily figured it all out. He puts up amazing statistics honestly because I do not think he knows how to involve his team. He went to Texas because he wanted to go to a team where he could do whatever he wanted. If he cared about winning, maybe he would have gone somewhere else, because that team was not going to do it. Greg has won everywhere he has gone, and he impacts the game heavily when he is around. When Greg Oden is your center, you are going to be a tough team to handle, trust that. Someone brought up the point that Nene was hurt forever. I always thought Nene could be a beast, but honestly, last year was his first year being healthy. He went down every year! He was drafted in 2001. 2008-09, first year healthy. Is Denver pissed off that they kept him? Do not think they could have done much better under the circumstances. Not to mention, that Greg, beasts on Nene. I remember reading someone I believe Thorpe say that he saw Nene take it to Timmy and than he saw Oden take to Nene, and that was damn impressive. Now, I know people will say what they believe, I respect that. But honestly, take whatever center you want right now, besides Dwight Howard, and I think a healthy Greg will stack up well with them. Marcus Camby, hurt all the time. Chris Kaman, hurt all the time. But when they are healthy? Well, they tend to win defensive players of the year and get mention for All-Star teams respectively. Greg Oden can potentially, and most likely will, be much better than either of those players. As soon as Greg gets the team around him to allow him to play 30 minutes a game, he will be a top 5 rebounder in the league, and might lead the league in blocks. Does this not make you say, damn, that ain't bad. Also, ask a number of NBA teams what they would be willing to give for Greg. If I were a Thunder fan, I would give up my roster other than Durant and Westbrook for the dude, throw in the pick for 2010. Guys like him do not come around often, he made Joakim Noah look like a rag doll. The guy was leading the league in rebounds, goes for like 7 and 7 while Greg puts up 24 and 12. The dude will do this consistently, it has just been bad luck which I do not see lasting forever, like most people seem to do. Dwyane Wade got hurt, are you never going to take him on your fantasy team? Amare Stoudemire has gotten hurt a few times, is he finished. Obviously both of these players have achieved more than Greg, but people already put Greg under the scrutiny of these two superstar players. He is 22 years old! Just hope that he gets better, or just harp on saying "I told you so!" Believe me, 30 GM's would all be very impressed with you :)
"If you have anything of a real scoring role, where you have to create shots for yourself, as all the guys I mentioned have, your efficiency rating would be lower than a catch and finish player"
That isn't true at all...Kobe, Wade, LeBron just to name a few have some of the highest efficiency ratings in the league.
Iguodala, gatorheels is just schooling you man. He is not saying efficiency means everything at all, but watch all those guys play and see what they all offer, and than tell me what center you want at the helm of your team in 2 years (When Portland will actually be competing for the championship most likely). Lets just say, I would take Greg, and if you watch him play against everyone he listed, than I think you would not be so fast to say that his efficiency is just smoke and mirrors. He outboards and just makes the game more difficult for opponents, and he has been a luxury on defense sometimes to the point that his team mates abuse having him, which leads to his foul trouble. As soon as the Blazers commit to defense, and get it all together, than I think they will be glad they have a Greg Oden over any of those other cats.
That's the reason they are the 3 best players in the NBA...
"That's the reason they are the 3 best players in the NBA..."
But you just said efficiency rating doesn't mean anything cause it's all about easy shots...Pretty sure they all miss their fair share of shots.
But he played less than half a game...he's a good rebounder and shot-blocker, but there are alot of good rebounders and shot-blockers, heck Pryzbilia is good at those two things. Most big men in the NBA are. And all these what if scenarios are irrelevant...who knows what he'd do for the Clippers..he plays for the Blazers.
But they make their shots too, that's why they are encouraged to shoot. I doubt if they missed all the time they would shoot alot, and therefore they would have a low efficiency rating. If your an elite player, or if you take easy shots, you ratings will be good. There's a reason they are considered elite players, and of course if your 7 feet and get all your shots at the rim, your going to make the vast majority of your shots.
I see what your saying man...I just haven't given up hope on him yet...I'm a Oden/Blazer fan...I'm not giving up on Oden. He was having a good year up until that point.
Luckily (if there is a bright spot) the surgery was successful and this injury isn't nearly as bad as the last. He does seem more optimistic though...That is a good sign.
I have no real problem with what you said Iggy. You just seem like you really wanted to bash the guy when he never did anything to you. Greg is a great person and still has the potential to be a star in the league. Will he ever stay healthy again? Who knows. I think he will. Nene came back from it. If he can, Oden can.
Blazer fans be optimistic...The season isn't over. Just expect more touches from Roy and Aldridge LOL.
oden didn't even get 10 rebounds per game in college so how is he 1 of the best rebounders in the league? he plays with a bunch of soft players where he is the only 1 that even goes for rebounds. he would not average alot of points cuz he has no low post skills he needs the ball right under the goal to score. he's not all that great of a defender he is just a good weak side shot blocker players with low post game score on him easy and pick up fouls against him. what good center has oden dominated? he's a very likable player but that doesnt mean we have to overrate him. he is only considered a bust cuz he doesnt dominate on offense like number 1 picks are suppose to do
He averaged 8.5 rpg in 25 mpg...That's pretty impressive.
Done arguing with you man. Portland isn't soft, Oden is a good defender.
You have your opinion, I have mine...Obviously ours are much different lol.
You know...This is more than Oden. This is the Blazer franchise.
Owner has cancer.
Assistant coach has cancer.
Coach freaking ruptured his achilles in practice.
Multiple injuries including Oden, Batum, Outlaw, Fernandez.
I hope the Blazers rally...Expect a trade...SOON.
iggy9 im with you on this one i dont know what these oden lover are seeing saying he is a dominant player
Thank you beanz. I don't know where all this stuff about Greg Oden is coming from, I bet the Blazers don't end up being worse with Oden out. He provides everything Pryzbilia does, so they won't miss many beats...I can't understand how Greg Oden is getting so much love from everybody, I say all the things that are true and I lose like 100 points from it. LOL...I find it amusing. People on here acting like Greg Oden just can walk on water or something. Talk about overrated, this is ridiculous. Trying to convince someone that Greg Oden is the 2nd best Center in the West. I think this is all a joke, or maybe I'm just sleepy. Haha
interesting thing about bust
I saw a lot of places have Eddie Curry as a bust, but I rarely, almost never, see people calling Tyson Chandler a bust, they came out in the same Year, Chandler is 2nd and Curry is 4th, but clearly Curry is wayyyyyyy better than Chandler.
back to Oden, he is averaging 11 and 8 this season (also 2+ blocks) in limited playing time, well due to his foul trouble, but still, it is very decent, and how old was Tyson Chandler when he averaged similar numbers?
so if he aint a bust, why Oden？
He wouldn't be a bust if he was picked in the top ten (2-10), but the thing is he was picked NUMBER 1
THIS is why people say he is a bust. I don't agree because it's not his fault he is hurt but nevertheless he cannot stay on the floor.
Bill Walton was also a trailblazer who had HUGE expectations and was often hurt. He went on to be the MVP and take his team to a championship.
Nothing can be determined so soon but the question is asked because he was taken #1 overall and other players who were taken below him are playing very very well.
Also players like Brook Lopez Andrew Bynum and Joakim Noah (leading the league in rebounding) who are about the same age are excelling at the center position--their success doesn't help the public opinion of Greg Oden.
If Greg Oden can come back next year and remain even remotely as defensively dominant as he has shown he is capable of being, and continue to play without a major injury for a season or so, he will regain his status as being a legit center.
Until then, sorry Blazer fans, he is seeming to be a less desirable pick than Durant, Al Horford, Noah, and even your very own Rudy Fernandez.
oden will never be the same..
expect him to come back and just become a regular starting center
OH GREG ODEN IS SO DARN NICE :) :) sorry to break it to you but niceness doesnt win championships.. and i forgot how much yall hang out with greg oden...
i completely agree with iguodala9.. oden will never be worthy of the number one pick. never ever
Being worthy of the #1 pick and a bust.
Sam Bowie, Michael Olowakandi were busts.
Greg Oden didn't he have the same injury as Andrew Bynum and Bynum is back.
Granted Bynum is a better offensive player but Oden will be okay too early to be called a bust.
Try polling GM's around the league and asks how many would still take Oden on there team despite the injuries.
personally i dont think he's a bust...one reason why people are saying it is because who was picked after him. and in that reguards i can understand how someone can call him a bust when you could have had a great player like durant. anytime you get picked over a guy who is playing like a all star while you are playing pretty good but injury prone then youre gonna be considered a bust
grege oden=bust ........he can only dunk and block..
so mutumbo was a bust to?..he could just dunk and blk..and oden can also rebound. whats the definition of bust?..also joe smith would be considered a bust also right
I dont think he is a bust he just cant seem to stay healthy and the play that hurt him was a freak play he tries to block every shot thats his problem you cant block every shot in this league. he is still a good player but he has to play more controlled he is way to aggressive on defense at times.
thank you...i told a couple of the blazers fans that he needs to stop trying to block every single shot and they thought i was crazy
Mutumbo was a all star his rookie year.
Oden is not a bust but I feel he was the wrong pick.
Durant is the man now. I also have to laugh at ppl who say he is not a #1 option, he's overrated and the classic:
If Durant is so good, why does OKC suck?
you also gotta remeber mutombo went to g'town for 4 years. and was likely 26 when he was a rookie( born in 1966 and was at gtown for 4 years
if we knew he was a project why draft him over a player everybody knew could come in and make a diff right away
Calling Oden a bust was absolutely idiotic considering he has been effective when healthy. How can you call someone a bust who is 4th in blocks, 4th in field goal %, & 21st in rebounding? Not to mention his PER is 23 which is well above the league average. Wow.
The goal is to win a title... point blank.
this is what people were saying before Oden got injured:
Also read this:
The Oden haters really come alive as soon as Oden gets injured. Yall were staying pretty quiet when he was healthy & balling haha.
Lol. I don't hate Oden. I said before he got hurt he was the wrong pick. To be honest, I only said on the podcast ( Where all of this is stemming from) that it's at a time where you can all him a bust.
To be honest, I don't care if he's 21...his legs have been through surgeries and now we must wait to see if he still has the explosiveness, leg strength, etc
Yeah, I think were all gonna see his true value for Portland throughout the rest of the season
Life after Oden isn't going to be easy
I can see what some of you are saying. I agree Durant is the better player right now. In college I thought Oden was the more dominant player. If you replaced Oden with Durant on that Ohio St. team they wouldn't have made it to the championship game. All 30 teams would've taken Oden first so apparently I wasn't the only one thinking this.
It isn't always about simply drafting the best scorer. It is about how can we build a championship team? What player is most likely going to be a key piece to help us win a title?
Iggy- As for the efficiency ratings...FG% is just one small element that goes into that calculation. So saying Oden is efficient just because he takes easier shots than most other centers is not true. Things such as personal fouls, turnovers, rebounds, blocks, free throw %, 3 pt %, steals, assists, etc... are all taken into account when calculating the efficiency ratings.
i wouldnt have taken oden over durant because oden was amaybe this and could be that. durant was/is more of a sure thing but at the same time its hard to pass on a center that could become very very good. i dont think he's a bust at all but hes also not overall better then okur kaman or the other centers named. and hes a ok defender not great or real good. being a good defender means you can play defense without getting into foul trouble because anyone can stop someone from scoring by fouling them.