I think Americans have a narrow view of who is and isn't a great athlete because our two most popular sports are football and basketball. I know baseball is also popular but people don't seem to think baseball players are great athletes.
are americans view any more narrow then a european country who only play one sport?..i think americans have a broader view then alot of other countries. you look at the olympics and amercans compete in all (i think if not then damn near) all sports. i see alot of other countries who dont have people competing in many events and that dont even have the sport in there country
im not saying anything crazy when i suggest that most blacks are better athletes then whites. Look around the nba. Look around the nfl. Look around sprinters in the olympics. Look around college bball and football ( 2 sports that require more athleticism then baseball or most other sports). I am white, and I grew up in southern cal where i was a minority and the only white player on a 15 man bball squad my senior year. And the other guys were, for the most part, more athletic. You all acting like that is some crazy or racist bias are being silly. And I disagree with quincey saying that we are born equal but black athletes work on dunks while white guys work on jumpers. I've seen countless white guys play sports their whole life and then get out ran or out jumped by a black guy who barely plays. It has also been scientifically proven that black athletes tend to build muscle easier while storing less fat and they have more fast twitch fibers in their legs. That is fact. It ain't racist and this has nothing to do with bias. If you look around the sports landscape and can't see that whites are genrally not as athletic as blacks then you are in denial or something.
One has to be very careful when making that type of generalization. If you say "blacks are better athletes" than someone can use the same logic and say "whites are smarter than blacks". Do you really want to open that door where many so called scientific studies allegedly proved whites are smarter?
Making those kind of general comments about groups of people can be dangerous.
it all depends man....
How did I get -5 on the 1st 2 post?
It's the honest truth...not alot of white players had success in the past...10-12 years.
Sorry, also looking for the next " White Hope" is not helping.
rtbt, blacks being more athletic has been talked about for decades if not centuries, so I don't think I'm saying anything crazy or crossing any lines. Also, unlike suggesting whites are smarter then blacks like you are doing, there really is nothing to be offended by when saying blacks are more athleitc. I seriously doubt white, asian, hispanic people are gonna lose sleep over that. It's not insensitive to anyone at all. Now saying someone is smarter, that is offensive and a down right insult, so regardless if it's true or not, there is no room for it in a basketball chat site. But if you honestly think that white people are just as athletic, then you can feel that way. Meanwhile black athletes will contintue to dominate track and field events like sprinting and jumping, they will continue to play rb, wr, db positions in the nfl and they will routinely be the best atheltes in the nba.
Gator, IMO, it goes back to how they were raised. The big, white, players were told they need to bulk up and really hit the boards hard because they werent athletes. Look at Dirk. He is long, fairly athletic when he was younger. Imagine if he had played college ball. Or Bargani. I think its how people perceive races. Like I had said in a post before, the white human body is anatomically exactly the same as the black human body.
not true deadlysin. I read a big study on blacks vs whites athleticly, and two advantages the black athlete has is that they have more fast twitch muscle fibers. Don't ask me exactly what that is, but apparently it is what you use to change directions and explode with speed or hops. Also, blacks build muscle easier while retaining less fat. Again, not seeing why people would be offended by this stuff. It's not like it's a negative to be less athletic or more athletic. Athleticism is a b ig part of sports, but not everything. Put Nash and Nate Robinson on a court together, and I'll take nash anyday.
I have heard that arguement, perez, and I'm not sure if it is a proven fact or a theory. Either way, I think blacks probably produce more elite athletes as far as speed and jumping ability go, a lot of top white athletes are big strong guys who are more athleteic than a lot of the black population without being able to jump out of the gym such as Bogut, Hansbrough, Harangody, Harpring, and others. To be in the NBA is such a genetic chance combined with years of practice and the state of mind to get it all together and for certain as is evident by the black to white ratio in the NBA and NFL that black American men fit that criteria more than white American men, but a lot of people don't realize that Kirk Hinrich has a 33.5'' max vert and Tyler Hansbrough's is 34'' these so called "bottom teir" white athletes are better basketball players than 99% of the population and although they can't slap the top of the backboard like Dwight Howard doesn't mean they are un athletic.
joewolf, never said they were "unathletic" far from it. Anyone in the nba is gonna be athletic. Also, there are many white players who are more ahtletic then black players. There are lots of things to take into consideration with how players grow and develope and play. But if you take a look at the majority of athletes who are different races like asian, white, or hispanic, black athletes tend to be more athletic. Just playing sports my whole life, I've seen it first hand.
what you said is crazy or anything you stated is so outlandish that I don't understand where you're coming from, because I do. However, when you say racial grouping is OK for something benign, such as sports, then you open the door wide for people to use the same exact logic for evil. You lose the moral ground because now people can utilize the very same logic you did to claim whites are mentally superior to blacks. It's a very dangerous, slippery slope.
I know you didn't, perez, that wasn't directed at you. As I said in my post I agree that black americans fit the athletic criteria more than white men, I too have seen it first hand, but I feel there is still a stigma that white players are unathletic, I was just saying there are different types of athletic, a guy who has a 28'' vert and can bench 330 pounds is athletic, just like a guy who has a 42'' vert no matter if its comparint Matt Harpring to Vince Carter or Joey Dorsey to Joe Alexander
rtbt, i hear what you are saying. But I like to think that people on here are responsible enough to not get carried away with it. To me, it's no big deal at all to say that blacks tend to be more athletic then whites. Being too affraid to even discuss such minor topics as that only leads to people holding everything inside because they are too afraid to offend someone. That leads to racial tension as well. To me, there is big difference between discussing a persons iq or finances or social status based on race as oppsed to athletics.
No. Im studying to be a doctor my man. The human body is the same across the board. Some individuals have different fast and slow twitch muscles but not an entire race. That is just crazy. It is a theory, not a fact.
i have read that some races are naturally shorter/taller, have more/less body hair, develop muscle faster/slower, store more/less fat, have muscle fibers different then other races, larger head sizes. These are all things that have been studied and reported by scientists. You are telling me that all those studies and scientists are wrong? There is zero difference in body types from any races?
Llperez22, I was an anthropology major in college and I can say that purely from a scientific point of view, there is only one race, the human race. Everyone on the planet is part of the same human species as there are no specific biological differences in the world of science.
Having said that, over time we've come to accept from a social vantage point that there are 4 racial groups, Caucasians, Asians, blacks, and Indians. But there is really no scientific basis for that because there is no scientific way to always definitively state who is part of a specific group. For example, if someone has a white father and a black mother, are they white or black? Of course in America they are considered black but that is a social definition, it isn't a scientific definition. Why are they considered black when one of their parents is white? There is no good answer.
rtbt, i understand what you are saying, but you are talking about races developing and evolving over milions of years. Who knows where we all originated from, but man kind spread out across the world and evolved based largly on where they are from. So there is some differences genetically in races. For example, and these are things I have read in the past, people from africa don't have as much body hair or hold fat as easily because it is hotter and there is less need for warmth. Asians developed larger eye lids it is believed to help keep snow from colder climates out of their eyes. I know that sounds strange, but that is how life evolves over millions of years. I'm gonna have to stop talking about this though because this has nothing to do with basketball and I don't want to get into this discussion any deeper on here.
Almost all of the best American black athletes go into the two major popular sports of basketball or football, so one develops the impression in this country that only blacks are great athletes. When Americans reference great athletes they usually single out corner backs, wide receivers, point guards, high flying forwards etc. But that's only a small part of the universe of athletics.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, when the summer Olympics roll around you see the world's best high jumpers leaping to astronomical heights such as 7 feet 9 inches and almost all of them are white.
When you watch gymnastics you see white guys leaping off the mat to mind boggling heights as they defy gravity. In the pools, you see white swimmers breaking one world speed record after another.
In the Winter Olympics you see white guys literally flying in speed skating or coming down a mountain at 85 mph.
There are great athletes in a wide variety of sports, many of which aren't very popular here in America, so we shouldn't be to quick to make those kind of judgments I've seen in this thread because there's a lot more to the world of sports than basketball and football.
I haven't seen the high jumps in olympics, but i have seen sprinters, and triple jumps and long jumpers and those all seem to be won by black athletes. Sking, while a sport, is not a test of ones athletic ability. It's a skill/endurance sport. Swimming is another skill/endurance sport. I've seen big fat guys lift weights and throw the shot put. When I talk athleticly gifted, I think ability to run/jump/explode or change direction.
Size is a different thing because of natural selection. Those it usually isnt a race that has those differences, its usually people from a select region. If you notice, people are getting taller all around the world. Do you know why? Because height is something that lots of people see as attractive. "Tall, dark, and handsome" is something that people find attractive. The dark refers to skin pigmentation causing the person to tan well. Subconsciously, we see that as a sign of fertility and thats what makes us attracted to that person. The handsome refers to a strong jawline and a symmetrical face and body. All of these are signs of someone being a fertile mate. Do you ever wonder why men like big boobs, or a nice butt, or nice long legs, full lips, ect?? Its because we see those things as attractive or signs of a good mate. Here is an example:
In a primitive tribe, there are 2 classes of people. Hunters and gatherers. In a particular tribe, tribe a, the 2 best hunters in the village are short brothers with big ears. Every week, they bring home a kill to feed their tribe. Naturally, the women of the tribe are going to find them more attractive because of their success. They will want their offspring to be successful as well so they seek out the brothers for mates. After a long long time, what do you think most of the men in that village, baring a few exceptions are going to look like? They will probably be shorter men with larger ears.
In another primitive tribe, there are 2 classes of people. Hunters and gatherers. In this tribe, tribe b, the 2 best hunters are brothers that are very bulky, dark complected, and have small ears. Just like in the first tribe, they bring home a kill every week. What do you think, after a long time, the men of this village are going to look like?? Bulky, dark, and small ears.
I hope you understand what I am saying. Size can differ but the anatomy of the body is the same. Sure some people from a tribe in Africa are going to be tall but its because they think tall=successful. See what Im saying?? That being said, in America, we see great athleticism as a sign of someone being successful at sports. If you are born with it that is amazing, if not then try something else. Sure black people seem to be more athletic, and they may be born with it, but it can be gained by anyone if they work at it. We, as a nation, seem to still see black, white, red, yellow, ect, as a difference in ability and it simply is not true. They human body is anatomically the same across the board except for a few cases. If you look at most athletes, their parents were athletes. It is natural selection. People who are athletes often find athleticism to be attractive. Just like smart people often find intelligence attractive. Hence, most athletes mate with athlete, most smart people mate with smart people. How often do you see a child with a mother that is 400 pounds and a father that is 400 pounds turn out to be an olympic sprinter?? Im gonna go ahead and say it will happen very very very rarely. I hope you understand what I am saying here.
If you dont understand, look at some of Darwin's work. His theory of evolution is a good place to start.
sin-i'm well aware of darwins theories and you are just beating around the issue. You say there are zero differences between races in terms of how the body typically develops. I pointed out studies where the body develops differently depending on the race. I'm well aware this has to do with evolution and such, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
It isnt race may man. I just said it a regional thing. I know plenty of black people who cannot build a bit of muscle and are slow as smell. On the other hand, I know lots of white guys who can lift for a couple weeks and gain 10 pounds. It is more of a regional thing than it is a race thing. It could have alot to do with diet, hygiene, training as a child, and just plain old good luck with the genes.
When people say that blacks are better athletes, I believe they mean in terms of running and jumping. You know, things like that. Figure skating and hockey and golf etc etc involve little to no ability to really show an explosive ability to run and jump. I'm in no way trying to down one race or another, but it's widely known that blacks are better at things were they run and jump most times, while whites are better at things were they get to show things that involve skill alot of times. That's why blacks make good RB, DB's and WR's in football, and whites make good QB's, Linemen,and Kickers/Punters...
I can't imagine two sports where explosiveness is as critical as it is in high jumping and gymnastics. When the best athletes in the world leap 7 ft 9 inches off the ground, it is an extremely explosive sport and almost beyond incredible watching a human being jump so high.
When the world's best gymnasts leap mind boggling heights and do all kinds of flips that defy gravity, they are relying on explosiveness.
Most of the world class elite athletes who rely on explosiveness and jump so high in these two sports are white guys.
Another sport that comes to mind is volleyball.
There are sports other than football and basketball that require jumping and explosiveness.
So, are you saying that black people are better at things that come natural and white people are better at things that require work?? That makes it sound like you are saying white people are smarter than black people.
rtbt-you're right, which is why i said i'll leave out high jumping since i don't watch it. As for gymnastics, my guess is not too many black people compete in those events so of course the top people are gonna not be black.
sin-you can not seperate region and race. The evolution process does not take place within few hundred years. Yes, over the last 5 centuries, people have been moving all over the world and the whole climate aspect is not as emphasized. But when you look at the millions of years of humans evolving from 3 foot tall ape like creatures to what we have today, black people were developed in africa, white people in europe, asians in asia, and so on. These "races" are one with their up bringing. You can't just say it's not about race it's about where they are from becasue that is the same thing. Races developed due to location and climates around the world. And society is not becoming taller becasue it "looks better" Man kind has been getting taller for millions of years because of eating habits and such that effect muscle/bone growth as well breeding habits.
They are better at skill things and things that require attention to detail,while black athletes are better at things that require alot of athleticism and speed.
Haha. Ok. This is a pointless argument. Im not going to set here and try to explain to you something you have no clue about. I have spent the last 4 years studying all about this kind of thing. You seem to know what you have seen on the discovery channel and heard in psychology class. For the sake of letting you hold on to your ego, because it seems as if that you cant admit you might even be slightly wrong or even attempt to learn something new, I will say you are right. You are correct about everything. Every race has a different anatomical structure. Black people are more athletic than white people, white people can only do things that are either on ice or that involve wearing tights, asians are the smartest, indians are the dumbest. Your right.
haha, we were having a discussion and it is obvious you got hurt like a little girl because now you need to go with the personal insults and stuff. Grow up kid.
Your right. Im sry. BTW, what makes you think I am a kid and when did I insult you?
iguodala9 said, "That's why blacks make good RB, DB's and WR's in football, and whites make good QB's, Linemen,and Kickers/Punters..."
The statement above is one of the points I've been trying to make. Americans understandably use basketball or football as their standard for judging great athletes. In other parts of the world where those two sports aren't dominate, great athletes go into different sports. Some of them turn into elite high jumpers, volleyball players with 40 inch verticals, and/or gymnasts who defy gravity as they leap incredible heights and do things with their bodies that make you ask if you actually saw what you think you saw.
All of the skills mentioned above require explosiveness and most of them are dominated by white athletes, just as black athletes dominate football and basketball in America.
But it's used in a different light..in the sports you named the athletes us special skates or surfaces to show off their explosiveness. In football and basketball, they use regular shoes and play on surfaces that have very limited enhancements to the players athleticism. I doubt that any skater can run as fast or jump as high as a basketball or football playing athlete if they are on a surface that has little to no effect on how fast they can move or how high they can jump...or if they are wearing tennis shoes or cleats
There are volleyball players with 40 inch verticals who wear sneakers just like basketball players. High jumpers soar as high as 7 feet 9 inches off the ground possibly wearing spikes. It really doesn't matter what kind of shoes they wear, I have no idea how any human being can jump 7 feet 8 or 9 inches off the ground.
So what does this have to do with the equipment?
I think gymnasts are barefooted, but they still defy gravity and leap to heights that make my jaw drop.
I don't buy your argument in the previous message.
The argument that gymnasts are as athletic as football and basketball players isn't legit either, as they use surfaces and skates that allow them to jump and skate on something that gives them leaping and speed advantages.
Volleyball players are athletic. I agree with this.
Think of it this way, the better athletes in football and basketball would be great at just about any sport that is played on a normal surface or with normal shoes. The same thing cannot be said for gymnasts and most other sport you mentioned, except maybe volleyball.
well of course you cant use the sports you said rtbt because alot of blacks dont even try to play it. you have to use sports where alot of whites and alot of blacks compete in. and swimming high jump soccor just isnt one of them. you cant get a accurate measurement when there is one black guy to every ten white guy playing that particular sport.
As a race, blacks have more muscle mass, especially in the lower back, glutes and thighs. But there is more to that explanation also. There are two types of muscle fiber "slow twitch" and "fast twitch". Slow twitch fibers are slower but are better for endurance activities. Fast Twitch fibers activate quickly and are good for jumping and sprinting, but are not good for endurance activities. The average person has a 50/50 mix of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers in their body, but of course this ratio will vary from individual to individual, depending on genetics, and the effects of long term training.
Blacks of West African descent have predominantly fast twitch fibers in their body. The body composition of fast twitch fibers in this group is as much as 90% to even 100% fast twitch fibers. Ergo, this is why so many blacks are great jumpers and sprinters.
But what about the Kenyan and Ethiopian long distance runners you may ask? These blacks have a good deal of muscle mass as well, and long legs. But these blacks are of East African descent and do not have the predominantly fast twitch fibers in their body as the blacks of West African descent. And because of their lifestyle growing up in East Africa (long distance running, high grain and cereal diet) have developed slow twitch endurance fibers as a long term result of their lifestyle and training.