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I feel this is foolish- White players Hated ON?

QHaynes20
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I feel this is foolish- White players Hated ON?

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4718857&categoryid=2459788

Why is ESPN even talking about this? There are a couple of good white players in the NBA. Because it's a black league- they call racism?

Come on, White players are given chances and they crushed some GM's.


JNixon
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I think that you just take

I think that you just take the best players available. McAlarney has a sweet jumper, one of the best shooters I've ever seen, but he would be a terrible defender even if he tried his hardest at the NBA level. That's why he's not a player in the L, he's too big a liability on D because he's too slow and unathletic.

QHaynes20
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Thank you. I mean...Adam

Thank you.

I mean...Adam Morrison was a top 5 pick. J.J. Redick was a lotto pick. These guys failed.

Hinrich was a top 10 pick, Collison was a top lotto pick. Come on

MagikKnick
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Simply put, White players

Simply put, White players have failed when given the opportunity

Joe Alexander
Adam Morrison
JJ Redick
Luke Jackson
Robert Swift
Kris Humphires
Nick Collison
Luke Ridnour
BJ Mullens

All white lottery picks, that have disappointed expectation.....
The jury is still out for some of them, but future isnt looking too bright

So, to say that "white players havent been given the opportunity" is not a legit arguement

thunderforthewin
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BJ mullens given the

BJ mullens given the opportunity????

you must crazy hes got like 48 mins court time this whole season, and is now in the dleague

the words when he was drafted was long term project, so its stupid to expected results immediatly

MagikKnick
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"The jury is still out for

"The jury is still out for some of them, but future isnt looking too bright"

Do people ever read the entire thing I write?

Ralwarez
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very stupid point of view

Simply put:

White players, who passed when given the opportunity:

Dirk Nowitzki
Tony Parker
Manu Ginobili
Jason Kidd
Hedo Turkoglu
Andrea Bargnani
Steve Nash
Andris Biedrinsh
Chris Kaman
Andrei Kirilenko
Kevin Love
Omri Casspi
Rudy Fernandez
Jose Calderon
etc. etc. etc.

vs black players who failed given the opportunity:

Michael Olowokandi
Jordan Hill
Patrick O´Bryant
Sean May
Joey Graham
Shaun Livingston
Josh Childress
TJ Ford
Dajuan Wagner
Kwame Brown
Eddie Griffin
Rodney White
Darius Miles
Keyon Dooling
Jonathan Bender
etc etc etc

Does´nt matter what color you are, if you have what it takes, then you´re on board. It´s simple as that.

MagikKnick
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White Players =/=

White Players =/= International Players

B-ball fan
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This story is ridiculous.

I think any stigma there is comes from the media and fans, not from teams. As has been pointed out, many white American players have been given possibly a better chance than they deserved. Teams want to win. The media and fans always characterize white players as unathletic and poor defensively. And that is often true and justified. ESPN shouldn't gripe about this. White Americans aren't at a disadvantage.

Meditated States
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Kevin Love

is good. Chase Budinger would have gone real soon if he was not white, but the american white players have not turned out to be much more than servicable not superstars. I do think Love is legit and Chase got hurt by being white though. Let a brother have his hops, and J, and come out of Zona go 40 something in the draft. It would not happen. ESPN should shut the @#%* up with this topic 4 real though. Its corny

JNixon
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The vast majority of the

The vast majority of the players you listed where international Ralwarez

gregoden08
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LOL

International is a race?

THUNDERstruck
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and if you take the ratio of

and if you take the ratio of white players drafted early to the ratio of black players that were drafter early the figures are more staggering

what i mean is like say example - in 3 years 36 black players drafted in the lottery versus the 9 white guys
(assuming there are no international players drafted)
if the past correlates with these drafts at all about 32 of those black guys will become serviceable NBA players as where about 1 or 2 of those white guys would. its not racism its just the GMs i think would rather take athletism over a lot of things. and white guys are usually more fundamental while black guys are more athletic

The8thDeadlySin
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So, MagikKnick, White doesnt

So, MagikKnick, White doesnt describe the color of your skin???

If Dirk isnt white, what is he??

Here is another question:
Since white guys from different countries arent "white," are guys like Tony Parker, Leandro Barbosa, Mikle Peitrus, black?? Or are they just Foreign??

If they are "black" then you have a double standard. Please dont think I am calling you out or anything, because Im not. I am just using you as an example. Please dont let this turn into something ugly.

Bryant24
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I mean basketball shouldnt

I mean basketball shouldnt be about race if u can go out their and do good work for your team and help them when it shouldnt matter what color that person is its not the black player faults its the gm's who draft the player they think can help their team if that player is black then they are black its 2009 not 1963 get off that.

MagikKnick
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@8thDeadlySins i understand

@8thDeadlySins i understand what your saying with that

But in the video that QHaynes posted, they count White different from International

So...i thought we were all still basing it off of that

The8thDeadlySin
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Ok. My fault. I just feel

Ok. My fault. I just feel like it is a double standard. Ya know what Im saying?? IDK about where you live, but where Im from, black and white is pretty much gone. Its a thing of the past. However, I attend a historically black school where all the administration seem to be partial to black students. If you look at our basketball team, I am the "token" white guy on the team. In that regard, I am constantly harassed by the new freshman about being the only white guy. It doesnt bother me because I lead the team in scoring and assist. I am one of the few white players to make it at the school. My point in bringing in my school is, the coach and that administration, the black ones, always comment on me being the only white person around. It is okay for them to do that. It is accepted by the community and the school. The double standard here is if it were a white school that constantly hazed a black player, it would be on sportscenter.

Back to the post, I would still like an answer. Are those players black or international??

Meditated States
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the ESPN

Topic was about white american players. so thats what most of us were going off of. Yes guys like Dirk are white I mean dude from Germany so he's white lol kidding. They are black international players. Again the ESPN topic today was talking about white american players.

Bryant24
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i learned this in history

i learned this in history class my teacher told me when america had the slave trade they dropped africans everywhere cuba,europe,all over the world thats why u might assume they are black like when tony parker first came to the league i thought he was black but he isnt u got him michael pietures and players like al horford who are not from the united states but look black like i have cuban in me so when people see me they think im black but im half.

Meditated States
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HUh

Bryant24

MagikKnick
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Your 100%, completely

Your 100%, completely understand

But as for the Parker, Barbosa, Peitrus thing, I dont know...
I mean "international" isn't a race,
in France....a white american wouldnt be known as "international", he'd be known as American
So, I guess we call them wherever they're from..
Parker is French
Barbosa is Brazilian
and Peitrus is Guadalopouian(sp?)

...im not sure though, what would you call them?

Meditated States
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Black is black

A hatian is Black. Got news for you 2. Dominican republic is connected to Hati so depending on what side your raised on will determine your language spoke. So guys like David Ortiz are black rather they want to admit it or not. Race is your color not your nationality. Nationality would be German 4 Dirk Race for Dirk is white.

MagikKnick
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So Tony Parker is what? And

So Tony Parker is what? And Anderson Varejao?

I think it has to be deeper than "black or white", but you cant call them "international"

Bryant24
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Im sayin when slaves where

Im sayin when slaves where briught from africa they where dropped off everywhere so thats why u got people like sammy sosa david ortiz,tony parker, Barbosa, Peitrus, because slaves got shipped everywhere african slaves werent only in united states. I made the top greade in my us hisrtory class I swear to god i know what im talkin about. So what do u consider Usain Bolt is he black? Cause all jamaicans look black

Bryant24
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Im sayin when slaves where

Im sayin when slaves where briught from africa they where dropped off everywhere so thats why u got people like sammy sosa david ortiz,tony parker, Barbosa, Peitrus, because slaves got shipped everywhere african slaves werent only in united states. I made the top greade in my us hisrtory class I swear to god i know what im talkin about. So what do u consider Usain Bolt is he black? Cause all jamaicans look black

Bryant24
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i didnt mean to post the

i didnt mean to post the same thing twice

Meditated States
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TP

Is black to me. Hale Berry has a white mother but she Black to me. Thats what she look like. Jamaica is the country he is from jamaican is his nationality. His race is Black yes he black

MagikKnick
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So you see it as just black

So you see it as just black or white?

Is 'hispanic' or 'latino' a race? If you dont think so, What is Carlos Arroyo?

Bryant24
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Yea scout4real is do u see

Yea scout4real is do u see it as black or white then what are indians are they black because they have very dark skin

Meditated States
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And Asian

Arroy is Brown yeah thats how I see him

The8thDeadlySin
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I got ya. I just feel like,

I got ya. I just feel like, someone said it earlier, it isnt 1969 anymore. This is 2009. We are supposed to be past the racial thing. I feel like, where Im from, white people are supposed to be past it but black people can say what they want. Ya know, in anatomy, the black human body is identical to the white human body. There is no clear reason that, historically, black people are better athletes. IMO, that is why white player dont always make it. It is a league of athletes now. If you dont have speed, vert, or both, it is a hard road ahead of you. As young children, well where im from, white players are stressed to work on fundamentals and shooting because if you cant do that, and you are white, good luck. I have teammates that dont know anything about basketball, about defensive schemes, and have some of the worst shooting form known to man. They are only on the team because they were track stars in HS. They can fly down the court and rip the rim off. If, as children, everyone was told they are the same. Not that black/white/asian/hispanic whatever, are better at something, this stigma would go away. I thought I was a terrible athlete until I was about 17 years old. I never tried to dunk or fly down the court because I was told I would never keep up. When I finally did it, and worked on it, the gap between me and my more athletic friend shrunk dramatically. Now, in college, I can keep up with everyone we have played and every now and again, I put one down. BTW, im only 6 feet tall. So, all im saying is, where I grew up, it was different. I feel like that is still how it is to most GMs. If you look at them, they are all older and from a different generation. They may never admit it, but they still have a stereotype of every race somewhere in their head. When we, our generation, starts becoming the group leading the bunch, look for the racism and discrimination to disappear from america.

Meditated States
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Yeah Indians are brown 2

They are from Asia and yeah their brown

Meditated States
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Not racist

Call em like I see em and color mean nothing at all to me don't care what people see. My moms is native american look like Pocahontas, but I am dark skinned like my dad real dark so I am Black period. I accept it no big deal who cares

Bryant24
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Yeah i agree 8thdeadlysin

Yeah i agree 8thdeadlysin said it perfect the league is dominated but athletes so if u arent athlete u aint goin to dominate no matter your skin color and i said that 1969 thing.

MagikKnick
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Ok, How about Joe

Ok, How about Joe Alexander....hes a really athletic white guy, and hes struggling to play for the Bucks...

ummm...Looney
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8th. That last post was

8th. That last post was great and you are 10000% right man.

Bryant24
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Joe alexander is athletic

Joe alexander is athletic but he dont hold defense and shoots to much and he got potential him and chase budinger i see breaking that stereotype

The8thDeadlySin
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Joe is a very raw athlete.

Joe is a very raw athlete. He didnt get much of a chance last year because what he brings to the table is exactly what Jefferson did for the team. This year he has a torn hamstring and has yet to play a game because of it. He, like I said earlier, is very very raw. There are tons of athletes that never make it. Him being white is just a coincidence. He, like Julian Wright, like Gerald Green, like James White, like lots of great athletes, need lots of coaching and the right team. Dont give up on Joe just yet. People kept giving Gerald Green chance after chance to prove something and when he couldnt do it, he was no longer signed. He kept getting chances because, like posted earlier, he is a great athlete in a league of athletes.

rtbt
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Race and Athleticism

I'm still amazed by people who don't understand the difference between culture/nationality and race. But I'll talk more about that in another message.

In America, black kids grow up idolizing NBA and NFL players so an extremely large percentage play basketball and football and very often excel in those sports. In light of that, it's no surprise to me that a significant majority of players in both leagues are black. But ask yourself how many American black kids excel at soccer? The answer is very few. You might ask the same question about tennis, gymnastics, hockey, swimming, ice skating, and/or possibly baseball.

If you watch the summer Olympics every 4 years, you will see the high jumpers leaping to astronomical heights, such as 7 feet 9 inches, that are mind blowing. But do you notice that approximately 90% of the world's great high jumpers are white? Do you ever watch the gymnasts flying through the air, leaping and doing things that defy gravity and almost every one of them is white? But the stereotype that white guys can't jump is prevalent because of basketball.

This brings me back to my main point, you can't judge the athletic world solely on the NBA and NFL that are so popular here in America. Culture and opportunity are critical in funneling young guys into certain types of sports.

People assume that only black guys are great athletes. Very often, the number one complaint against white basketball players is the allegation that they aren't athletic, sometimes that's true and sometimes it isn't. But it definitely is a bias. How many times have you heard white guys described as unathletic and they won't make it in the NBA because they can't play defense? How often do you hear black guys described in that manner?

The reality is that a fair number of NBA players don't put forth a major effort on the defensive end of the court and many of them are black. The point here is that we shouldn't be judging players based upon their race, everyone should be judged using the same set of rules. But unfortunately stereotypes often play a significant factor in player assessments.

The8thDeadlySin
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I agree 100% with you rtbt

I agree 100% with you rtbt and thats what I was trying to say. You are better with words than I am. IDK who took a point from ya but they are stupid. +1 for you.

MagikKnick
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I liked this discussion,

I liked this discussion, very good 'debate', need some more quality discussions on this forum like that

llperez
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for the most part, white

for the most part, white players are not as athletic as black players. That's not racist or biased, that's just how it is. Basketball is a sport that requires a lot of athleticism thus you don't have as many white players. In the end though, if a guy can ball teams will give them a look and i don't think race is an isue in the nba as far players getting a fair chance. If you can ball, you will play.

llperez
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for the most part, white

for the most part, white players are not as athletic as black players. That's not racist or biased, that's just how it is. Basketball is a sport that requires a lot of athleticism thus you don't have as many white players. In the end though, if a guy can ball teams will give them a look and i don't think race is an isue in the nba as far players getting a fair chance. If you can ball, you will play.

itsOva
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I aint a racist person, but

I aint a racist person, but I'll point one think out
every race have strengths and weaknesses, saying that black players is better than white players is not untrue, but it is really stupid to make that comparison. What about the coaches? How many good black coaches are there in the NBA? How many good white coaches? What would players be without coaches? Would MJ, SHAQ, Kobe, win those championships without Phil?
I'll just stop here before I piss people off.
My point is, NBA is not all about the players, its like a community, like a machine, like a puzzle, you need different pieces, and each race contribute equally to make the NBA what it is.
Beside, dont forget the dude who invented this game, he is white, the commissioner, he is white. Color dont matter, as long as they are here for the right reason.

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i believe they were talking

i believe they were talking mostly about white American players

JoeWolf1
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First of all, I think Andrea

First of all, I think Andrea Bargnani is white and Micheal Petrius is black. They are both international players, but I don't think you can make the arguement that white international players fit into a different category. That being said, if you are talking about American white players then most definatly they are less represented and often less athletic than American black players. However, I think if you are going to look at now compared to 8 years ago American white players are more represented in the NBA than in 2001. Steve Nash won 2 MVP's and I know he is from Canada, but he went to college 4 years in the US. American white players such as Love, Budinger, C. Anderson, Hinrich, Hawes, Reddick, Collison, and quite a few other players play important roles for their teams. Are pretty much all of the major super stars black? yes. Do black players tend to be better athletes? yes. But I have noticed more white American players entering the NBA than in the past years. But in the end does it matter? Its an interesting topic to compare and debate about, but I don't care if Kirk Hinrich goes for 30 or Derek Rose as long as my team wins.

The lake show2
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as far as the high jump and

as far as the high jump and the other sports..the reason why the guys who do that jump so high is because they work on jumping there whole career. thats what there sport is about..jumping high so they work on there leg muscles. if a white guy were a basketball player and worked on there legs like the white guy that does high jump im pretty sure he would be flying and dunking in basketball like a black player but he doesn't. when i was growing up playing basketball and as i watch my nephew and friends kids i see how the white kids mostly work on shooting jumpers and the black kids work on trying to dunk and handles. i pretty much feel for the most part we are born on equal terms (with a couple exceptions) but what we work on as we grow up starts to show when we get a certain age. a white kid that works on shooting jumpers by the time he gets to hs ends up being a pretty good jump shooter while the black kid that works on dunk ends up having bounce when he gets to highschool. theres exceptions of course but what you work on tends to determine what you can do later in life. take football for example. alot of black qb in hs run more or just as much as they pass where as alot of white qb's throw more then they run. when they get to the nfl the qb that has worked on passing most of his life is the better passer where as the qb that has run most of his life becomes the better runner. same thing with the dunkers,shooters, ball handlers in basketball

rtbt
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Blacks Are Better Athletes?

One has to be very careful when making that type of generalization. If you say "blacks are better athletes" than someone can use the same logic and say "whites are smarter than blacks". Do you really want to open that door?

Now getting back to the point of my earlier post in this thread. Almost all of the best American black athletes go into the major sports of basketball or football, so one develops the impression in this country that only blacks are great athletes.

For white kids, they frequently live in many parts of the country where basketball, unlike urban areas, is a minor sport. Therefore, white kids usually go into minor American sports such as soccer, gymnastics, tennis, swimming, ice hockey, high jumping, etc. So when you watch gymnastics, soccer, hockey, tennis, swimming, high jumping, etc. you'll see that the great athletes are almost always white.

The next time you watch white guys jumping so high that they defy gravity during the gymnastics competition or the high jump in the Olympics, think about my argument above.

Separate Note to "The8thDeadlySin": Thanks for the kind words.

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along the same lines as what

along the same lines as what i was saying.most black kids growing up dont try to play soccer,hockey,tennis,swimming,high jump. so there are gonna be a low number of success stories with sports like that because the majority of black kids dont try to play it or learn it. ..more white guys play it so more white guys are gonna succeed in it

JoeWolf1
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Yeah

Yeah, I was a high jumper and there were very few black high jumpers. It really goes both ways, i got into it because I could jump pretty well, and with training I got a lot better, I agree with Quincey though, it's just whether you do it or not, I saw Melvin Sanders who played for OSU and the Spurs for a little bit high jump 7'1'' in the Kansas State track meet in 99' and I also saw a 5'10'' white guy from a town of 1,500 people high jump 7'3/4''. Its case by case, if you have the right genetics no matter what your race and you want to put in the time and effort you can be very good.

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rtbt, i agree. black people

rtbt, i agree. black people arent born better athletes like some suggest.

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