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llperez
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rant

just wanted to rant on a few things.

1-Greatness equals Greatness. People need to stop trying to quantify what makes a player special by just looking at his stats or mvp's or championships. Any semi-trained monkey can read a boxscore and see that 2>1. But it takes true fans who understand the intricacies of the game of basketball and what impact a player has on the game. Too many people base things off of numbers.

2-I argued with guys on here all summer about Rondo. Many say he is a top 5 pg in the league and a hands down all-star. My question, if you traded him and Kyle Lowry, and Lowry never had to worry about teams focusing on him and he could just hit KG, Ray, Pierce, Rasheed, etc. with passes while running point and knocking down occasional shots, do you think he could put up the 11 points and 9 assists and 4 rebs that Rondo does? Would he be a hands down top 5 pg too then? Would he shoot better then 35% ft's and 16% 3's? Vice versa, does Rondo, with more freedom and expectations in Houston, suddenly carry Houston like a top 5 pg should?

3-Greg Oden might not have been the right choice at number 1 over Durant. He might not make too many all-star teams. But you have to understand that a legit 7 foot big man who can dominate the boards and shut down the paint is HUGE in the playoffs. The Cavs couldn't get past Orlando because Dwight punked Z and Verajao all series. If Oden can do his job, I don't care what his numbers are or who he was drafted ahead of, the Blazers will be very happy with having taken him. Wing players who score buckets come around more often than you think.

4-I know this is not ground breaking news. But defense wins. If you are an owner, why on earth would you hire a coach like D'Antonni or Don Nelson? They will win games in the regular season and make things exciting. But do you ever see a coach like that who ignores defense winning a title?

5-People need to stop complaing about the 1 year out of highschool rule. It's not age discrimination nor is it the nba taking away the rights of kids to make a living who can go to war. If it was only the Lebron's and Kobe's leaving highschool, this would never had been a problem. Unfortunately there were more highschool kids declaring then you even know about because they never made it. The NBA got tired of investing millions into unproven highschool kids, so they wanted to see them play one year at a higher level. The NBA is a billion dollar corporation and like any billion dollar corporation, they have the right to enact hiring standards. They just want to see them against tougher comp, that is all. The kid can go to college, europe, the nbdl, or go get any job in the world that one year and make money. So please stop acting like a one year evaluation process is corrupt and holding these poor kids back. Now it should never be lengthened past 1 year, because then I agree that it would be infringing on the rights of the athlete and if the teams still can't get it right after 1 year, then that is there problem.

6-I guess that's all...


Slim
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The kid can go to college,

The kid can go to college, -- bad grades?
europe -- need to have a resume (even Brandon Jennings found it hard with Sonny Vaccarro and a HS superstar resume to play)
the nbdl -- how many people on the NBDL roster are straight out of high school?, Latavious Williams and he had to get Sonny Vaccarro to help him out
go get any job in the world that one year and make money-- how does that help an unknown player get 'known'

I dont agree with this last part at all, its well thought out, but it is simply not that true :P

llperez
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okeke, you are telling me

okeke, you are telling me that a highschool player who is good enough to enter the nba draft and be drafted can't find a euro team to pick him up? And there have been a few guys to go to the nbdl, but the fact is they prefer college because college is a better opportunity to showcase their skills and build up thier draft position. If the kid has bad grades or just needs money, then the nbdl or europe for one year are very viable options. After all, we are talking about NBA players right? it's not like any average joe who graduates highschool is being effected by this rule.

Slim
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what if you never played

what if you never played high school ball and just came out of nowhere?

u think the nbdl or europe would invest millions/thousands of dollars into him?

llperez
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if you never played

if you never played highschool ball and neither the nbdl or europe give you a second look, then this rule about the nba would not effect you would it? How is a guy gonna come from no where and nbdl teams won't even sign him, but the NBA would?

Slim
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Personally, I know you will

Personally, I know you will get scouted but you better be Mike Jordan palming the ball from the free throw line.
Or Rodney Williams type freak athlete before the NBA/NBDL will give you a chance.

I watched a d-league tryout before and have seen some good guys get cut.
If there is politics involved instead of "can he play"?

then that is why some people have been hurt by the one and done rule (Brandon Jennings)

But if there is a will there is a way,

sometimes it seems you have to be a freak athlete to get in the NBA and it doesnt
matter if u can play ball, they will teach you,

ie Rodney Williams/Latavious Williams

Slim
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basically u better have

basically u better have RIDICULOUS UPSIDE

llperez
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uhmm...okeke, I will repeat

uhmm...okeke, I will repeat this as clearly as possible. If the one year NBA rule effects you, then that means you are a crazy good prospect that could go pro after highschool. And if you are that good, then yes i think the NBDL might have you on their radar. Unless you are telling me that players are good enough for the NBA after HS but not the NBDL?

Slim
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I'm saying the scouting

I'm saying the scouting system isnt perfect
its hard to get noticed unless your blowing it up

just look at the guys in juco all burly forwards like Qyntel Woods and Kedrick Perkins

what about Lenny Cooke?

why John Stockton was better than those guys, Rafer Alston

Answer: IQ,

scouting isnt perfect, I asked a D-League coach PERSONALLY if he knew who John Wall was!

He didnt have the slightest CLUE who that guy was! It blew my mind

NBDL and NBA are associates, NBDL scouts are told to watch out for a certain guy to show up to their camps

I have intimate knowledge that
scouting isnt perfect and some people can slip thru the cracks that is all I am going to say on the subject

goodbye

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1 - i completely agree, just

1 - i completely agree, just because you dont win a championship doesnt mean you should be regarded as a failure. if youre amazing, like ewing and stuff you should be recognized. greatness does in face equal greatness.
2 - i agree, rondo is good, BUT TOP 5 GOOD?? hell no, the kid is MAYBE top 15 pg good, all he is is a good rebounding guard with decent vision. if you put any other rebounding guard on the celts he could put up rondo numbers no doubt.
3 - i dont know about this one. if oden gets to like 50 percent of his potential the blazers will be scary and they will have made the right choice. and good scoring wings do come out all the time. but how often are they superstar caliber? i think in the end most uneducated at the nba level people will say the blazers F'ed up, but it might end up being the correct decision for them
4 - dantoni and nelson ball = destined for failure
5- i agree 100%

THUNDERstruck
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1 - i completely agree, just

1 - i completely agree, just because you dont win a championship doesnt mean you should be regarded as a failure. if youre amazing, like ewing and stuff you should be recognized. greatness does in face equal greatness.
2 - i agree, rondo is good, BUT TOP 5 GOOD?? hell no, the kid is MAYBE top 15 pg good, all he is is a good rebounding guard with decent vision. if you put any other rebounding guard on the celts he could put up rondo numbers no doubt.
3 - i dont know about this one. if oden gets to like 50 percent of his potential the blazers will be scary and they will have made the right choice. and good scoring wings do come out all the time. but how often are they superstar caliber? i think in the end most uneducated at the nba level people will say the blazers F'ed up, but it might end up being the correct decision for them
4 - dantoni and nelson ball = destined for failure
5- i agree 100%

IndianaBasketball
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Good post. I agree with

Good post. I agree with everything you said for the most part.

I disagree with what you said about Oden. I think he'll make plenty of All-Star teams lol. Other than that I agree 100% percent. You're right on the money.

I used to be 50-50 on the prep-to-pro rule, but I'm leaning towards being completely against it. I used to think it was unfair to players like Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudemire, LeBron James and Dwight Howard... Players that have the skill and are physically and mentally ready to contribute right away. Like you said though... If it were just those players entering, it wouldn't have become a problem.

It became a problem when preps who had no business entering started entering lol. Let's start with Stephen Jackson in 1997 lol. WTF was he thinking? Korleone Young in 1998. LEON SMITH in 1999. Desagna Diop and OUSMANE CISSE in 2001. Travis Outlaw, Ndudi Ebi, Kendrick Perkins and JAMES LANG in 2003. Robert Swift and Dorrell Wright in 2004. CJ Miles, RICKY SANCHEZ, Andre Blatche and Amir Johnson in 2005. EIGHT preps entered in 2004 and NINE entered in 2005. Other than Monta Ellis (took a year), ALMOST every other player from the 2005 draft class has taken 2-3 years to develop or still haven't developed. Gerald Green never did. It's arguable that Andrew Bynum is just now truly developing.

The truth is only Garnett, Stoudemire, James and Howard are the ONLY prep-to-pro players that made a significant impact their rookie seasons. Even Kobe Bryant and Tracy McGrady took a couple of years to truly develop. Rashard Lewis took a couple of years to develop. Al Harrington took a few years to develop. There are quite a few prep-to-pro players that are very good players right now but it took them 2-3 years to truly develop... Some still aren't really developed. Waiting so long on these players to develop while paying them really hurts the NBA. It puts teams in a strangle hold and pushes veterans out of the league quicker. It just hurts the league and the quality of the product we see on the floor.

The lake show2
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i agree with most of what

i agree with most of what you said llperez except the rondo part. i do think hes very very good and a top 5pg and i think he really showed it during the playoffs last year. i dont think kyle is anywhere near as good as rondo although hes a ok player. rondo has showed if he has to he can be a scorer as well as still get boards and ast. i doubt that mike conley would beat out rondo if he was wit the grizz nor would brooks if he was in houston. if he was easily replacable then boston wouldnt have resigned him

Slim
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1-Greatness equals

1-Greatness equals Greatness.
any semi trained monkey can see that Michael Jordan was better at defense, and a better finisher at the rim
Elgin Baylor and Jerry West are close tho

2- Dont hate, appreciate. that being said there is a lot of pressure for Rondo's job and Rondo he gets the job done

3- I agree Wing players who score buckets come around more often than you think. I dont know if the Blazers twin towers can get it done consistently against
the energetic & frenetic Nuggets, and the do-it-all Lakers

4-I agree, Lebron can only do so much to help your squad on defense, where is your enegetic 7 footer (Varejao), where is your floor spacing big man (Ilgauskas), who will stop the young Dwight Howard/Gortat in the post

5-People need to stop complaing about the 1 year out of highschool rule. It helped me develop out of high school, I was just complaining about recruiting, and am frustrated by the lack of "IQ" guys that are ALSO athletic. It seems like that u r either one or the other.

I mean if Andre Iguodala had a bank shot or a 3 point shot or a post up fadeaway, I'd like to see that player wouldnt you,
I gues I got carried away llperez, I'm just shocked that there are no more "total package" dudes with size, AND they still get hyped.

It makes it seem like you get millions of dollars to LEARN how to play ball.

I want to see the total package! That's why I'm on NBAdraft.net keeping an eye out.

rtbt
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rtbt Comments on llperez22's rant

Although I don't agree with everything you wrote, overall I thought it was well thought out and I enjoyed reading your rant.

1. I Completely agree.

2. Interesting, but I think Rondo deserves a lot of credit for playing so well.

3. Another interesting argument, but I would have gone with Durrant. I also think the value of Greg Oden hasn't been established. Yes he's had some very nice games this year, but his career has a long way to go, plus he appears to be injury prone. However, I don't think there's any doubt that Durrant will be an NBA star for many years.

4. I agree!

5. This is the one area where I disagree big time. Since this subject could be an entire thread by itself, I will keep my comments as brief as possible.

If a LeBron James is ready to graduate from H.S. why should he have to leave the U.S. to pursue his chosen profession in a foreign country and possibly give up millions he could earn his first year playing in the states?

The term "student athlete" is already a joke on many campuses. But the "One and Done" rules brings that hypocrisy to a new level. Guys like Derrick Rose take only phys ed courses their first semester and then drop out of school in the 2nd semester as soon as the basketball eason ends.

Who cares if NBA GMs make idiotic mistakes by drafting high school players? Nobody forces them to make dumb decisions by drafting untested high school seniors.

Slim
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Okeke 2 rtbt

Some take student courses very seriously, I do too
ala Okafor,

I dont want people to think that everybody in the NBA is a quote unquote dumb jock

but if u are a virtual lock to go to the NBA (guards bodies develop are NBA-ready faster than centers)
then u need to get your priorities straight in terms of bachelor's degree vs. guaranteed contract

Okafor finished in 3 years

and focus on developing your basketball IQ, there are some students who go back Kevin Durant is attending Texas on offseason, Chris Emmanuel Paul (2 and done) just got finishedstudying Religion

Im sure D. Rose will get his degree, Jeff Foster just got his degree this year how long he been in the league?

1 and done is for ppl who already developed physically, Kyle Singler was 240 out of high school he would have been in the NBA like a snap

But I think AAU ball is turning everybody into clones of each other, SGs in PGs bodies,
mini-Shaq/Tractor Traylors

NBA is separate the weak from the obsolete impo, they all got a ways 2 go, but that being said

STOP TRYNA find the NEXT SHAQ! Shaq played PG for his high school and in 60 years is an anomaly,

IQ is highly underrated

Just want to get those things off my CHest

NBA cares :P

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I agree with everything

I agree with everything except the Rondo topic....

Kyle Lowry? You seriously think Kyle Lowry could do what Rondo does? Because I don't...Lowry is the 2nd best on-ball defender at the PG position in the NBA IMO, behind Rondo, but everything else besides shooting (of which he's also not exactly Chris Mullin-like at) he is at a serious disadvantage in comparison to Rondo. He's not even a better scorer than Rondo is, and Rondo averages about 11 ppg. I think Lowry would of course benefit from starting in Boston, I mean who wouldn't? But I have a hard time seeing him impact games without scoring a bunch like Rondo does. And that's no slight to Lowry, because he's a good backup PG in the NBA, probably one of the very best. But put Rondo on Houston, and he would take Aaron Brooks spot and probably do all the same things Brooks does, except shoot 3's.

If anyone has watched Boston play this year, you would notice that Rondo is a pretty decent shooter from mid-range, whether its a spot-up or if its off the dribble. He just doesn't have range.

The lake show2
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you keep saying weight like

you keep saying weight like thats the end all. even at 240 that wouldnt have made singlar a better prospect. there are plaenty of guys who have nba bodies who dont make it. its about skill. if you are skinny with alot of skills you get picked up over a big guy with no skill. there are alot of big men over in europe who have better bodies then a couple nba big men but they dont have the skill. im sorry but scouts and gms just dont have weight as as much of a issue as you do.

Slim
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if u want a second contract

if u want a second contract then college helps u put on weight and bide your time

o yeah and it gives you time to grow,

I think 1 year of college is good! :P

Slim
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Its called improving your

Its called improving your draft stock :(

Slim
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if you are skinny with alot

if you are skinny with alot of skills: Kyle Singler

you get picked up over a big guy with no skill: Solomon Alabi

u are missing one word POTENTIAL

2011 Draft
12 LA Clippers Solomon Alabi 7-1 251 C Florida St. So.

13 Sacramento Kemba Walker 5-11 172 PG UConn So.
14 Oklahoma Cty Tiny Gallon 6-8 296 PF Oklahoma Fr. lots of skills from what I hear but WEIGHT issue, good kid
15 Chicago Brandon Knight 6-4 175 PG Undecided HSSr. can he shoot as good as Singler
16 Charlotte Kyle Singler 6-8 220 SF listed at 220 :( he is skinny why isnt he over Alabi

ANybody else wanna chime in? I hear what quincey is saying but I disagree when it comes to MISMATCHES
Gasol will ALMOST always outrebound PF Chuck Hayes/David Lee

ANybody else wanna chime in? I sort of do this scouting stuff a lot

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