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Jon Scheyer

pig nobs
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Jon Scheyer

Everyone is overlooking Jon Sceyer. I know he is not the fastest, strongest, or most athletic guard, but seriously i think he should be a second round pick. He has arguably the best A/T ratio against solid teams in the country. In the NBA he would be excellent as a 2 with his passing and wont be as pressured with a point guard doing most of the dribbling. He has an amazing strok with obvious NBA range. Standing 6-5 he has the height also. Tell me what you think please!


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Think J.J Reddick. He can

Think J.J Reddick.

He can defend 1's or 2's in the NBA

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j.j. reddick

Jon is a much better overall player. J.J. might have a better shot but he is not close to being as good as jon. I was also thinking he could end up like a taller Kirk Heinrich.

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He's nowhere near Kirk

He's nowhere near Kirk Hinrich.

Im a duke fan. I know JS. He is average. He will be a 2nd rounder but he will be more like a Jason Kapono

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Ya I see what you mean with

Ya I see what you mean with Jason Kapono but he is more of a face up shooter than Jon. Jon I think will be a Jason Kapono that can drive and dish off better.

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He's not an NBA player to

He's not an NBA player to me, but he can make alot of money overseas. He's perfect over there. He's simply not a good enough athlete to play NBA bal though.

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I see what you mean but I

I see what you mean but I think he wouldn't want to play over seas but i really don't know much about euro league ball. i guess we have to wait and see. There are plenty of unathletic people in the NBA though I don't think thats a problem.

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ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Do you understand how good JJ was in college? There was a reason he was a lottery pick...Jon isn't near the player JJ was at Duke. Heck, JJ has actually been doing good with Orlando this year.

Jon will be a good player overseas.

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I dont see who he could guard

I dont see his game translating that well to the league. He is an overrated 3 pt shooter, in college he is good not great. He would need to be a 3 point shooter to make it, and Im not sure he can shoot it 40% from NBA 3.

Im not sure who he would guard either. 2's would be too fast and strong for him, and 1's too quick. He would be severely disadvantaged in terms of both athleticism and strength, he would be a target on defense.

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Yea I can see Scheyer

Yea I can see Scheyer getting to be a HUGE defensive liability in the NBA. And I also agree that he's an overrated shooter, he's nowhere near what Reddick was in college as a shooter. And he can't be compared to Kapono as Kapono is about 6'8 and goes about 215, while Scheyer is like 6'4 and on 180. And Kapono is a SF, with at least average size for that position, while Scheyer is undersized. Not to mention, he's not nearly the shooter Kapono is.

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iguodala9

As you pointed out, even though Scheyer has nothing in common with Jason Kapono and Kirk Hinrich, he's being compared to them in this thread. Why? It's the same old story of comparing white guys only with other white players.

Even though he's an excellent college player, as for his NBA potential, it's very limited. If he is fortunate enough to make a team, Scheyer will probably be the last guy off the bench. He would be much better off in Europe where he could have a very successful career.

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jj not close to being as

jj not close to being as good as schyer?..ok now youre going a tad bit too far. yeas hes a pretty good player but like rtbt said he has limited nba potential. what exactly does he do well that he could do almost as well in the nba?

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Scheyer

Scheyer is a less skilled Nick Calathes but has a great basketbalI IQ, probably the best in the country. He isn't very athletic and his body is fairly undeveloped but I assume he will be taken somewhere in the mid to late 2nd round.

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Uncle Bucksh0t, Are You Serious?

Uncle Bucksh0t, what does Scheyer have in common with Nick Calathes? Other than the fact that they're both white, they are very different players. Calathes is a true PG, while Scheyer is a stand up jump shooter. Will you guys please stop with comparing white players only to other white guys, even when they have nothing in common?

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lol..here we go again.

lol..here we go again. actually that isnt too bad of a comparision. both can play spot pg. both can shoot. both can get into the lane. nick will probably be a better pro though. and sorry to tell you this rtbt but every site on the net pretty much compares white players to other white bplayers and black players to other black players. same is done in boxing and fottball and other sports. actually its done in music and actors also.

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Quincey you're right but.....

It still bothers me. I remember last year Aran and others on this site repeatedly compared Tyler Hansbrough with Mark Madsen and I thought that was absurd.

One guy was the National Player of the Year on the NCAA championship team while the other guy had zero offensive skills. Despite being double teamed every game, Hansbrough was one of the top scorers in the country and a dominate force playing against the best the NCAA had to offer. Mark Madsen is a guy who couldn't score if nobody was guarding him. The only thing they had in common was the fact that they were both white power forwards.

Aran also compared BJ Mullens with Chris Kaman, two guys who also have nothing in common. BJ Mullens is very agile and athletic with no offensive skills. Chris Kaman isn't athletic, but he possesses a vast array of very skilled offensive moves. Nonetheless, people had to find another white center for their BJ Mullens comparison.

You're right Quincey, the list goes on and on. Just look at this thread, Jon Scheyer is being compared with Kirk Hinrich, Jason Kapono, and Nick Calathes. For my money, he has very little in common with any of those three and it drives me crazy to see that.

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i cant think of any black

i cant think of any black players he has more in common with then those white players. most white players are more similar then there black counter parts. even the real good ones. i cant think of many black players that have a similar skill set to larry bird or many white guys who have similar skill set to magic johnson..there are exceptions but for the most part it is what it is

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Quincey, Now We Disagree Big Time

You can't be serious! Forget Magic and Bird, they were two unique individuals with whom there were no comparisons period.

There are many similarities among a variety of NBA players that have absolutely nothing to do with race.

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thats youre opinion just

thats youre opinion just like mine is i dont see the same similarites nor do most people since most arent compared to other white or black players. most fans dont, other players,coaches,gms,experts

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I did think Hansbrough and

I did think Hansbrough and Mark Madsen were comparable, both are relentless, strong, and energetic. And both aren't very talented on offense. Yes, Hansbrough was Natitonal Player of The Year, but many forget that Madsen was an All-American himself at Stanford, averaging about 15 and 10 while leading them to the Final 4. I agreed with that comparison.

Chris Kaman to BJ Mullens was never a good one. BJ Mullens has always reminded me of Kwame Brown...and I think that's accurate, don't you? I never really liked him as a superstar for some reason, even though he has a whole lot of potential.

Jon Scheyer is kind of comparable to Kirk Hinrich, though he's a poor man's version. Which is probably not enough to get into the NBA.

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bj in hs reminded me more of

bj in hs reminded me more of tom chambers

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iguodala9 on Comparisons

I agree with your BJ Mullens and Kwame Brown comparison, but disagree with your others.

Kirk Hinrich is a very quick, athletic guy who can drive around just about anyone. He isn't a bad shooter, but he isn't known for his outside shooting. However, Hinrich has the ability to go one on one and score against just about anyone. Scheyer isn't quick like Hinrich, he rarely drives around defenders, and he is an excellent stand along jump shooter. Scheyer can score against zones and/or if they screen for him against man on man. I don't buy this comparison at all. If both of them weren't white, the comparison would never come up.

If I were to compare Scheyer with a current NBA player it would be Ray Allen of the Celtics.

And I definitely don't buy the Hansbrough - Madsen comparisons. I did and still think that was absurd. If both of them weren't white, the comparison would never come up.

If I were comparing Hansbrough with other NBA players I would start out with 3 players, only one of them is white.

Leon Powe
Louis Scola
Carl Landry

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Now Idk about the rest, but

Now Idk about the rest, but Leon Powe is a very very good comparison for Tyler Hansbrough.

Back when Hinrich played at Kansas, he functioned in the exact same role Scheyer plays now, he was a corner shooter or just a spot up shooter really. He's also about the same size as Hinrich and about the same level of a shooter. He's not as quick or as athletic as Hinrich, which is exactly why I don't see him in the NBA, because Hinrich isn't really that quick or athletic for an NBA PG. Hinrich also was shooting guard in college like Scheyer. If you remember, little Aaron Miles was their lead guard and Keith Langford was their off guard. So the comparison is not that far off, minus the athletic tools, especially when comparing their college careers.

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iguodala9 on HInrich and Scheyer

iguodala9, when Hinrich was at Kansas he used his athleticism to repeatedly drive to the basket. He was a lot more at Kansas than just a spot up shooter which is what Scheyer's role is at Duke. Although I agree that Hinrich isn't a great athlete at the PG in the NBA which has the best athletes on the planet, Hincrich has excellent quickness/agility and is much quicker than Scheyer. At least we agree on that. I also happen to believe that Hinrich would be a better player at SG than at the point.

Once again, the main reason they're compared is the fact that both of them are white. If Hinrich was black, his name would never come up with Scheyer's.

I repeat what I said above, if I had to compare Scheyer with a current NBA player, it would be Ray Allen.

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I already said he isn't as

I already said he isn't as quick or athletic as Hinrich: "He's not as quick or as athletic as Hinrich, which is exactly why I don't see him in the NBA, because Hinrich isn't really that quick or athletic for an NBA PG." And the reason they are compared is because Hinrich is the closest comparison to Scheyer. Nothing more, nothing less. It has nothing to do with race....

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iguodala9

iguodala9 wrote "And the reason they are compared is because Hinrich is the closest comparison to Scheyer. Nothing more, nothing less. It has nothing to do with race....

We disagree, it has everything to do with race. If Hinrich was a black guy, the comparison to Scheyer would never come up. I would bet almost everything I have on that.

Let me repeat, the first NBA player who comes to mind with whom I would compare Scheyer is Ray Allen. Both of them spend the entire game out at the 3 point line. Kirk Hinrich is a slasher and a driver, something that isn't an integral part of Scheyer's game.

iguodala9, I said, "Hinrich has excellent quickness/agility and is much quicker than Scheyer. At least we agree on that." I read what you wrote and agreed.

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If Kirk Hinrich was black, I

If Kirk Hinrich was black, I would still make the comparison. The same way I said Kwame Brown was comparable to the BJ Mullens, despite being different races, and the way I agreed with Leon Powe being comparable to Tyler Hansbrough despite their race. It has to do with how they play to me. Ray Allen to Jon Scheyer is a much worse comparison than, to Kirk Hinrich. Jason Kapono also spends all his time on the perimeter, but you shot that comparison down faster than it came up....That was a funny joke, Ray Allen? Wow.

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Ray Allen? LOL...now I know
Ray Allen? LOL...now I know you have never seen Schyer play
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Kirk Hinrich is a pretty

Kirk Hinrich is a pretty solid athlete. I looked up the 2003 combine and this is what I found comparing Hinrich to Carmelo Anthony

No step vert: Hinrich -29 Anthony -30.5
Max Vert; Hinrich - 33.5 Anthony 33.5
Bench: Hinrich- 10 Anthony 7
3/4 sprint: Hinrich 3.1 Anthony 3.15

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Ray Allen, Jon Scheyer, and Kirk Hinrich

Kirk Hinrich is a slasher and a driver, something that isn't an integral part of Scheyer's game. Yes on occasion Scheyer will drive to the hoop, but it's not a staple of his game. With Hinrich, driving/slashing to the basket is his bread and butter, plus he's much quicker than Scheyer.

Despite the huge difference in talent, the comparison between Ray Allen and Scheyer is much stronger. Ray Allen spends virtually the entire game running his man off of screens to get off long range jump shots. Hmmmm... that's exactly what Jon Scheyer does all game at Duke.

Jason Kapono is a 6 ft 8 inch front court player, not a SG. Jon Scheyer is a 6 ft 4 inch SG who occasionally plays the point, something Kapono could never do. Admittedly there are similarities in their game, but I rarely compare guards with forwards when making player comparisons.

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There are plenty of players

There are plenty of players that spend time around the perimeter that play 2 guard...that doesn't mean they are comparable to arguably the best shooter in NBA history. That spimply doesn't make sense. There's a difference between spending time on the perimeter and actually being a force shooting from the perimeter. If he was comparable to Ray Allen, there would be no discussion about him playing overseas. Plain and simple.

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iguodala9, It Isn't a Talent Comparison

iguodala9, you're comparing their talent levels while I'm comparing their style of play. Both of us already agreed that Scheyer is not an NBA talent.

But when it comes to how they play the game, he and Ray Allen are almost identical. Of course Ray Allen is a far superior player, it isn't even close. However, at the college level, Scheyer plays the way Ray Allen plays in the NBA, constantly running his man off picks for his long range bombs.

Kirk Hinrich creates his own offense by slashing and driving to the hoop.

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rtbt

lmfao, you criticize a comparison to Nick Calathes then compare Scheyer to Ray Allen......wow

rtbt
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Hey Uncle Bucksh0t, where are your supporting facts?

Uncle Bucksh0t, you can claim any two players are similar. I can say that Jon Scheyer is similar to Dwight Howard, just as you claimed he was similar to Nick Calathes. It means nothing unless you can explain in detail why they're similar. So far you haven't detailed one similarity between them.

But let me repeat why Ray Allen and Scheyer play the same style of game. Before I do such, let me emphasize that I'm not saying Scheyer is as talented as Ray Allen, because that would be absurd.

However, when it comes to how they play the game, Scheyer and Ray Allen are almost identical. Both guys spend the bulk of the game out at the 3 point line running their defender off picks and firing long range bombs. Ray Allen does it at an elite level in the NBA while Scheyer does it at Duke and he's pretty good at it, but certainly not good enough to be an NBA player.

Nick Calathes is a pure PG who is in some ways similar to Kirk Hinrich. Calathes, like Hinrich, is a slasher/driver, but unlike Hinrich, he is a much better passer who who is very adept at setting up his teammates. In fact, I thought Calathes was one of the best passers in all of college basketball last year.

Jon Scheyer, unlike Calathes, is a SG who spends the bulk of the game firing long range jump shots. And he isn't a slashing PG like Calathes who's primary skill is setting up his teammates. Scheyer and Calathes play the game with very different styles.

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Okeke is Corny

rtbt

is the one making sense, its like that teacher in the Chronicle of narnia

but LOGIC should be taught in schools more :D

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I think Scheyer has a

I think Scheyer has a similar game to Matt Carroll, but Carroll is a far better perimeter shooter. Scheyer is definitely better suited to playing overseas.

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Okeke99 and Logic

Hey Okeke99, thanks for the comments about logic. There are some sharp basketball people on this site, however, there are also a fair number of people who were missing when logic was being taught at school. They seem incapable of arguing from a logical point of view. We can disagree but at least support your argument with facts.

Why are people jumping on me because I said Scheyer and Ray Allen play the same style? Unfortunately some people thought that was a ridiculous comparison because of the talent level differential. I never said Scheyer does it as well as Allen. It's obvious that Ray Allen performs at an elite level in the NBA while Scheyer is nothing more than a very good college player, who probably won't be good enough to play in the NBA. But then again, some people believe what they want and really don't read what is written.

Anyone who watches and studies basketball knows that Ray Allen spends the game out on the perimeter running his man off of picks and then fires up long range bombs. Well guess what, that's exactly what Scheyer does at Duke, unless the opponent is playing a zone.

I also stand by my other point that white guys are only compared with other white players, even when their games have nothing in common. This thread was another example of such with Scheyer being compared to:

Matt Carroll
Kirk Hinrich
Nick Calathes
Jason Kapono
JJ Redick

I'm surprised some guys didn't use Steve Nash, Chris Mullin, and John Stockton in their comparisons.

I believe I'm the only guy who actually compared Scheyer's style with a black guy and took a lot of heat for that. I guess I won't be able to sleep tonight [LOL].

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Scheyer and Carroll are spot

Scheyer and Carroll are spot up shooters (at least Scheyer would be in the NBA) and are roughly the same size with decent defensive capabilities and quickness. I'm not sure how that's less accurate than your Ray Allen comparison.

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man that ray allen

man that ray allen comparisions is wayyy off. you should just say rip hamilton and reggie miller then if you are gonna say they are comparable because they run off of screens. they arent comparable at all. i dare you to find anyone to even think thats close to being accurate. i know you dont liek white players being compared to white players but you jump on every single white on white comparision like white players arent comparable to other white players

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Scheyer

As a Duke fan, it is clear from some of the posts that many of you have not seen him play very much. I would like to start out by saying that I do not think that he will be an NBA player. He has no real talent that would stand out in the NBA. At the college level, he is a combo guard, he scores many of his points in the lane, and is a good, not great jump shooter with a fairly slow release. He is not the type of shooter that is constantly running of screens, in fact he has the ball in his hands much of the time. Most of his 3-point attempts come from looks created by the drive and dish or on kick outs and he has not shown great range behind the 3-point arc, unlike say JJ Redick. He is an excellent college player because of all the skills he brings to the table, but he is not a good enough shooter to fill that role in the NBA.

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exactly..nothing like ray

exactly..nothing like ray allen

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Yes

At the college level, the closest comparison I have seen so far is Hinrich. Both players are good shooters, who primarily handle the point and who's game is just as dependent on driving to the basket as is it on shooting. Scheyer is a great player and I'm glad he is at Duke, but his shooting ability is vastly overrated. The rest of his game is overlooked because people see that he is a white guard who plays for Duke, and automatically assume he is a shooter in the JJ Redick mold.

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rtbt responds to PureShooter and ImYourFather

Pureshooter, it's been so long since I've seen Matt Carroll play that I forgot what his game is. If I remember correctly from his days at Notre Dame, he and Scheyer do have a lot in common. I'm not against comparing white players with other white guys, I just want the entire universe of NBA players included in the comparison options. Why is it always limited only to white guys? And by the way, it's the same for black players, who are only compared with other black guys.

Im Your Father, I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree with your analysis of Scheyer's game and your comparison with Hinrich. But that's OK, we can have different opinions.

Kirk Hinrich is a slasher and a driver, something that isn't an integral part of Scheyer's game. Yes on occasion Scheyer will drive to the hoop against slower defenders, but it's not a staple of his game, jump shooting is his strength.

With Hinrich, driving/slashing to the basket is his bread and butter, plus he's much quicker than Scheyer, who doesn't have the foot speed to drive around good defenders. Hinrich isn't a very good outside shooter while Scheyer is an outstanding long distance bomber. I also think Hinrich is a better passer who does an excellent job of setting up his teammates.

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rtbt

I guess I see what you are saying. I would just argue that he is not a pure shooter. The strength of his game, and why it won't translate to the NBA, is that he can do a little bit of everything. He is by no means a pure shooter, and Duke rarely runs him off of picks to get free. He is the primary ball handler for this Duke team and gets most of his shots either of kick-outs, or by creating for himself, which he will not be able to do in the League.

Our primary difference of opinion is in how we evaluate Scheyer as a shooter. I would not call him an outstanding shooter, that is a title that I would reserve for the Redicks and Novaks of the world. Instead I see him as more of a "scorer" on the college level, who has a good, but not great jumpshot.

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rtbt

I guess I see what you are saying. I would just argue that he is not a pure shooter. The strength of his game, and why it won't translate to the NBA, is that he can do a little bit of everything. He is by no means a pure shooter, and Duke rarely runs him off of picks to get free. He is the primary ball handler for this Duke team and gets most of his shots either of kick-outs, or by creating for himself, which he will not be able to do in the League.

Our primary difference of opinion is in how we evaluate Scheyer as a shooter. I would not call him an outstanding shooter, that is a title that I would reserve for the Redicks and Novaks of the world. Instead I see him as more of a "scorer" on the college level, who has a good, but not great jumpshot.

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Shooters

To use another Duke example, to me Andre Dawkins, who I feel is an excellent pro prospect, is a great shooter. Jon Scheyer is a good shooter, but one who also has several other dimensions to his game. The problem with his NBA potential is that his shooting ability is the only aspect of his game that would translate to the next level.

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Im Your Father On Scheyer

Let me start by saying I fully agree that Scheyer is more than just a shooter, he does in fact have a well rounded game. In fact, he's impressed me with his overall skill level. However, he has two extreme weaknesses that allow him to exceed at the college level, but doom his future as a professional. Jon Scheyer lacks both physical strength and quickness/foot speed.

I can't buy the comparison with Kirk Hinrich because I think their games are so different.

1. Hinrich is very quick and agile while Scheyer is slow and moves deliberately.
2. Hinrich's games is based on his ability to slash and drive to the hoop while Scheyer's strength is jump shooting. Note, I'm not saying Scheyer cannot drive to the basket, but he can only do such against slow defenders. His real strength remains his outside shooting which he can do against anyone.
3. Hinrich is a mediocre jump shooter while Scheyer is a very good jump shooter.
4. When Scheyer is hot, he can pump in 4 or 5 long range jump shots in a row. Hinrich is very inconsistent with his jump shot and you rarely see him hitting consecutive jumpers, let alone 4 or 5 in a row.

In light of everything stated above, I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would say Hinrich and Scheyer play a similar style.

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rtbt- How can Hinrich be a

rtbt- How can Hinrich be a mediocre jumpshooter & Scheyer be very good?

Hinirch has shot 38% from 3 point range over the course of his NBA career.  Scheyer has shot about 38% for his COLLEGE career from 3 point. With that being said it seems they are similar shooters.  If anything you might give Hinrich the slight edge because the NBA 3 point line is further back than the college line.

I'm just giving you a hard time ha.  I just don't see where you are coming from on the shooting skills.

I'm not sure who I would compare Scheyer too.

I agree with you about comparing players of similar race though.  I would like to see more white players compared to black players & vice versa. 

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you also have to compare

you also have to compare their defense. Hinrich is tough and has quick feet and pretty good athleticism just because hes white doesnt mean he doesn't have it and he can guard three positions he was guarding Pierce a lot in the playoffs. while Scheyer isn't a good fit hes stuck in no mans land not quick or tough enough to guard a 1 or 2 effectively.

rtbt
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Gatorheels - Hinrich as a Shooter

Hey Gatorheels, every time I watch Hinrich play his shooting is very inconsistent. His career FG average is only 41%, and as you pointed out, he's a meager 38% from the three point line, which isn't very impressive.

I have no idea what Scheyer's official FG stats are at Duke. However, it seems as if every time I watch Duke on TV, Scheyer bombs away from long distance and usually makes several consecutive three pointers, something I've never seen Hinrich do.

And as birdzilla mentioned, not only is Hinrich fast on offense, he's pretty quick on the defensive end of the court. As for Scheyer, just doesn't have the requisite quickness and foot speed.

Pureshooter
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Yeah, I have to disagree

Yeah, I have to disagree with the Hinrich comparison. I remember Kansas getting matched up with Duke and Hinrich really took it to Jay Williams, who was thought to be the second coming at the time. Hinrich got past Williams pretty much whenever he wanted. Point being that Hinrich is nearing the end of his career and it's easy to forget how athletic he was when he first came into the league.

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