the wade and lebron debate
Their was a post about who would be consider the better player if LeBron won 4 mvps and Wade won 3 rings. People acually were dumb enough to say LeBron , but these are the reasons you were wrong and the better player would be Dwayne Wade!
Wade because mvp is a regular season award which means if wade wins 3 rings he will also have 3 finals mvp trophys and those look a lot better than regular season mvps. I think if this happens people wont be able to argue who the better player is cuz the best players lead their teams to championships and thats what seperates them from the really good players. Ewing, malone, and all those other guys get a break cuz they played in the jordan era but name a player from another era thats called a all-time great that didnt win a ring?
almost any player would pick a championship over an MVP trophy. MVP is voted for. CHAMPIONSHIP is won
i also think both players will eventually have two rings. i see one more for wade atleast and two for lebron atleast
Thats your argument for why "we were wrong and you are right"? Why would he have 3 Finals MVP Awards? Why not just one? Or two? what makes you assume that he's gonna be the best player on a championship team? What if got hurt, and he wins on a team lead by Howard or some other young star? The only thing you can assume is that Wade won 2 more championships. The MVP however is pretty straight forward. He was voted the best player in the NBA three more times. Do you know how good you have to be to be a four time MVP? Dr. J, Wilt, Kareem, Russell, Jordan. Thats it. Thats called dominating your era.
no dominating your era means rings sorry. he would be the finals mvp cuz how good a player he is and whoever he plays with the offense will run through him just ask shaq. the finals mvp means a lot more than the regular season mvp how many players have 3 finals mvps?
is lebron got 4 mvps and no championships he would also be the played that just couldnt get it done. this is a silly argument. both players will have multiple rings when it is all said and done
I think both are the main factors when debating between the greatness of two players. You can't just say this player has x amount of rings so he's the best, but it is a good way to seperate two players of comparable talent. This does seem like a pointless debate though. LBJ isn't even 25 yet, hasn't won 4 MVP's and Wade doesn't have 3 rings or 3 championship MVP's. What about if Melo gets 2 MVPs and 2 rings and Wade doesn't get another and LBJ finishes with one ring?
...my point is the "what if's" can go on forever
I created that post earlier. Thank me. And yeah I think pppl say LBJ cause he's popular, but yeah.
id rather b a gr8 player & win 3 rings than a gr8 player who won 4 reg season mvps. kobe only has 1 mvp but will be considered one of da best ever bcuz of his rings.
I watch the game of basketball. Awards and title s are important, but they do not auto matically make player A better then player B. People with knowledge of the game do not need to look at a players trophy shelf to understand who is better. I have zero bias towards either guy because I'm a Kobe fan. But LeBron is better period. If Wade becomes better and wins titles, then i will say he is the better player. But if Lebron continues to be the better player but wade has more help and wins titles, then I'll still say LeBron is the better player. And most professional sports writers feel Lebron is better, so it's not bias to agree with the majority of people. The same people who gave Lebron the mvp last year. So you guys can say whatever you want. Titles does not automatically make you better then another guy. Anyone want to say Kevin McHale was better then Karl Malone?
if titles do not automatically make u better than another guy then y does everyone consistently say kobe needs 2 win more titles 2 b considered better than jordan? hes arguably better than jordan right now. just w/o da rings or da marketin impact.
& if u take rings out of the equation bill russell is not even a top 15 player of all time
Jordan and Kobe are so close that I seriously doubt the majority will ever say Kobe is better since Jordan did it first. The facet is that prime Kobe did not play at the same time as prime Jordan so people use titles and other things to validate the argument between the two guys I consider the best ever. Kobe is gonna need the title s if he wants to be given the same respect as Jordan, and there is nothing wrong with that.
But Lebron and Wade play against each other while both are in their primes. You can see them every day vs the same competition and occasionally against each other. If Wade wins titles and Lebron wins mvps, they will both get their due respect. But to just say that titles = better is silly. Is Tony Parker better then Nash? Or will he be remembered more then Payton or JKidd after all their careers are said and done because he has the titles? I don't think so.
Besides, the heat aren't close to being title contenders at this point. And there are so many other things to be taken into consideration like who has more help or how close is it between those two. It's a silly question really.
Lebron Aint Even In His Prime.....He's Still 24.
you serious? come on perez.
Kobe isn't as close to Jordan as you think. Kobe needs to win more MVP's, Finals MVP'S to make a real argument for him. Those 2 losses in the Finals don't help him much and MJ has better numbers too. Kobe will pass him in years, games played too.
that is a real good point by NYK2010 I have been saying that for a while jordan went 6 for 6 in the finals and has 6 finals MVP's kobe's teams lost twice in the finals. how can he be considered better than jordan also jordan had a retirement in between the titles he took over a year off and came back to win 3 more titles.
again, a bunch of dudes talking about mvp's and trophies. the league has gotten better and when Jordan was in his prime, guys like RMiller, JDumars, CDrexler, DMajerle, JStarks were his top comp on the wing. Kobe has to battle with Lebron and Wade. It's actually very close between those two and most people realze that. You guys bringing up mvps and awards are just contributing to the fact that so many fans read about players instead of watching them. I watched Mike throughought his entire career as well Kobe. F the awards, those dudes are the two best and they are very close. i also like how I go on and on about how Mike is the best ever and Kobe needs to catch him and Mike changed the sprort he is the GOAt and all that. But the second I say Kobe is close, it's like screw you perez you're biased for thinking Mike is the greatest of all time but Kobe is close.
no disrespect to the pistons, but how exactly do you lose with : shaq, kobe, malone, payton, fox, george, rush, fisher...etc.
well, malone did not play in he finals that year. Fox was on the bench and only played about 10 minutes pg the whole season. Payton was in a slump and avg like 7 points in the finals. Maybe you should actually watch the series before you say things. Had Malone played, it might have been different. Watching Rasheed light up Slava Medvedenko for 5 games was sad.
I was a young'n who was just amazed whenever I saw jordan on t.v.
Jordan played defense that kobe has never, and will never be able to do.
kobe imo, has few similarities to the greatest player that ever walked earth. He has leadership skills. He can take over a game at any moment...but only the offfensive end only. Kobe has a decent post game...but nowhere in hell near the post skills jordan had...offensively or defensively.
sorry perez, it may be your opinion, but it's hard to think kobe will ever make the impact jordan made on either end of the court...at any time in the game.
malone played 4/5 games that finals, perez.
sir, I'm going to kindly not take what you said in a disrespectful manner, simply cause I like to read what you say on here.
but maybe you should have double checked yourself before saying he didn't play lol.
it's safe to say...that was the worst i've seen kobe play when it really mattered.
malone did not play more then 10 minutes in any of those games. He hurt himself in the western confernece finals and was completley ineffective in the finals. That was a huge loss because he was playing great in the playoofs before that and even dropped 30 against hOuston. Like I said, watch the games. He didn't even dress up in the last game. Jameer Nelson was 5 times more effective for Orlando last year then Malone was in those finals. Playing 5 minutes before you sit the rest the game because you are injured is not playing. Go back and watch if you do not believe me. The lakers did not have malone in the finals.
where i'm reading said he averaged 30.5 mpg that finals, for 4/4 games.
http://www.nba.com/lakers/stats/2003/nba_finals_stats.html - is the source where I got the information.
well d-grizzly, we disagree. Kobe just turned 31 and is on his way to his 5th championship. If people think Jordan is better, I guess I can live with that. like i said, until kobe is done, jordan is the greatest. But kobe is damn close and playing defense is tougher these days because the league is better. Forget about mvp awards, there was nothing on the court that jordan did that kobe doesn't do.
i agree with you about the mvp awards or trophies, that's just an excuse to place someone above someone else.
evidently we do not agree about kobe being on the level of jordan.
but i do think you may be right about the 5th ring on the way.
i am wrong about malone's minutes. I was going off memory But I can promise you he was injured throughout that series and did not even dress up the last game. Numerous sites have talked about how his injury hurt the lakers. He made a total of 8 shots in the finals after being the third best payer on the team. I will repeat without hesitance, Karl Malone was not there in the finals. He was a shell of himself after getting injured in the conference finals and was unable to contrinbute in the finals. This has been widely discussed by numerous sites/magazines. He gave it a go but was unable to contribute. But I stand corrected on the number of minutes played. I swear he it did not seem he was oput there for 30 minutes at the time becuase he was not himself.
tim duncan > karl malone. in my opinion, anyway.
I've been meaning to say that for a few days haha.
I would normally put duncan aherad of malone, but it is very close and seeing as how Malone was playing at an all-star caliber level until he was 40 and Tim has slowed down so much quicker, I have to give a very slight edge to the mail man. I speak all the time about how the game has progressed and gotten tougher, but guys like Jordan, Malone and Olajuwon would be dominate even today they were so good.