I know this controversial and i will probs get heaps of minus' for this but i want to know all your opinions on the matter.
Do you think that if a certain player is white, their draft stock would be lower than if he was an african american or another way of putting it, do you think GMs favor selecting african Americans over white players?
lets be smart and no racist comments
its a question about racism.. I do not feel GM's side one way or the other. They go with the best talent they see when evaluating. Why would one even care to ask this question of pure stupidity. Give me a minus for that. Its like asking if GM's prefer hispanics over asians AKA IRRELEVANT INFOMRATION>>>>>>
I may be nieve, but i dont think it makes a difference in the selection process. Look at recent drafts, there have been white players picked at all times in all rounds. No difference in draft process.
Yea if a player is worth being the No.1 pick meaning they have shown potential and talent and have been productive, a GM would'nt care about the race. I'm 99.9% sure of that.
Now if your dealing with African players, they seem to get alot of skepticism about their upside and such because of their birth records and such. They seem to scare off more and more teams as they aren't very successful for the most part as well. Don't take that the wrong way either please (not that you should), as I'm African American.
So what about Blake Griffin? Did the conundrum of him being half and half give the Clippers GM nightmares? Color has nothing to do with draft stock. Budinger fell because he's one-dimensional at the NBA level. Is Aldrich falling because he's white? Did Hansbrough suffer because of his skin color (I dont think so, he was a lottery pick). Kevin Love? Joe Alexander? Andrew Bogut? Adam Morrison? Chris Kaman? Kirk Hinrich? Mike Dunleavy? Luke Jackson, Robert Swift, and Kris Humphries were all selected before Al Jefferson, Josh Smith and Kevin Martin. If a player is a good prospect, he's a good prospect. Color does not matter. Period.
Edit: Took Steph off. Damn his whole family is light. I was thinking of the Rivers kids. But really color doesnt matter. Joe Alexander was drafted like any high potential, super athletic prospect before him. Andrew Bogut was taken first overall because he was a complete center prospect. Its all about what you do on the court, especially for American white players. Europeans, you have to go more on Euro scouts, but if your American, you've competed against the top black players all your life. You've gotten the national publicity, so if your a stand out, you'll be drafted as such.
Stephen Curry is not half white his mom and dad are both black hes just light skin. But I dont think it makes a huge difference but I do think it matters to a very few gms but not alot.
I thought Kevin Martin was white?
Although I agree that most GMs will pick the best player for their team, there are other elements of racism in the game. You will see some examples on this website and several others. It doesn't necessarily mean the people who do what I'll describe below are racists, they are just victims of a mindset they grew up with and probably don't even realize what they're doing is a form of racism.
For example, Aran Smith will almost always compare white players only with other white guys. He will do this even if he has to go back in time to find a retired white player such as Kurt Rambis, Jack Sikma, and Kike Vandergweigh [spelling?]. For example, Aran compared BJ Mullens, who is a very athletic big man with no offensive repertoire, with Chis Kaman who has very little athletic ability but a wide array of offensive moves. In other words, their games had nothing in common but that didn't stop him from comparing one white center with another.
Another one of many that stands out in my mind was that ridiculous comparison of Tyler Hansbrough with Mark Madsen. One guy was an All American with a wide array of skills who was the national player of the year @ NC while the other guy was a basketball version of a clunker with zero offensive skills. There are several other ridiculous comparisons, but you get the idea.
I don't mean to pick on Aran because he has plenty of company among the sportswriters and commentators in America. In general it's also true of black players who are almost never compared with white players.
I think the 2nd area where racism pops up is in terms of white players who are often hyped beyond their ability. Why? I don't think the people doing that are necessarily racists, but they're victims of human nature. In a game where almost all of the stars are black, it's almost natural to root for or over hype white players.
I remember when Chris Mihm was at Texas, many of the draft sites rated him the best big man in the country. They also poured the hype on Luke Walton as a potential national player of the year when he was at UCLA, even though he was nothing more than an above average college player. What were they thinking? There are many other examples.
But hold on, it goes both ways. Do you remember when Steve Nash was far and away the best player in the game for 2-3 years in a row, constantly doing amazing things at Phoenix? He won two MVP awards in a row, that were in my opinion, very well earned. However, several black players complained that he won because he was white. Nobody has a monopoly on racism.
Another example was the disdain of many black people for the Celtics calling them a white franchise. Of course they ignored the facts such as Boston having the first black coach in the NBA and I think they also had the first all black starting five in the league. People never let facts get in the way of racial bias.
In sum, basketball is a sport that's was and still is way ahead of it's time in terms of outstanding race relations, but it still has a few remnants of racism.
FACT: I remember one GM saying he would never draft a white player.
Ill try to find a link
Chase was picked where he was because he has been consistent and not taken advantage of his athletic ability. His slight did light a lil fire under him but sometimes in basketball if a certain type of player screws up, it hurts every player that may seem similiar. Joe Alexander and Adam Morrison screwed it up for Chase. I remember when a player named Ed Gray screwed it up for undersized two guards and How Dirk Nowitzski allowed a lot of Euro guys to get drafted high because everyone was looking for the next Dirk. If anything here are some player that get drafted higher if they are white. Not to be racist but if Harborough was African American, He would have not gotten drafted as high. Most African Americans drafted that High are either guy with with a lot of potential or polished players that can be stars. Harborough will be a solid role player. He does not have what Kevin Love and David Lee has or Troy Murphy has and even Lee, Murphy and Love has been knocked because of issues on defense and going against athletic players but they all found a niche in rebounding and putting points on up and Harborough will not do this as good but if he does I will admit i am wrong but so far he has done nothing to impress me as a nba starter but I was impressed at how much success he has had so far.
I hate to say it but it probably makes a difference, but only when a gm is likes to prospect equally and both are left. I think it makes more of a difference in rating for athletism on draft websites, or espn, but for gms it probally will only hurt or help a player a year
Hey air juggernaut, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but unless a trade happens, Budinger isn't starting for Charlotte anytime soon. Hell, he won't even be in their rotation, seeing that he plays for the Rockets.
Back to the subject, I don't think race plays a part in who a GM draft or sign. Most white prospects, whether they're American or foreign, are usually one-dimensional or lack in several areas in their game. Another thing that holds back white prospects is that most of them lack the foot speed to keep up with the pace of basketball that is being played in today's NBA. Though it's a hand full of teams that still play a slow tempo game, the game is moving more to an up tempo game, if its not already there. And look at the teams that are goin to this tempo. Their projected rotations have few, if any, white players in it and even fewer white impact players. Add to that the recent history of white draft picks being busts or major dissappoints and that also factors into the selection of players.
I dont think so...i dont see much racism in the NBA, most of the players are black anyway
They say theres always a need for size in the NBA, but did Luke Nevill go undrafted because hes white? No...because hes unathletic and unskilled
Did BJ Mullens draft stock go down because hes white? No...because he dissapointed on the college level
In terms of the draft...theres always a reason a player drops, whether he be white, black, international, or somewhere in between
I don't think GM's care at all about race when drafting. They are trying to keep their jobs and will take whoever they think will help, period. Also, to rtbt, You say Luke Walton was overrated because he was white and was considered a potential national player of the year while at UCLA? Well, for one he went to Arizona not UCLA, Second, he was never ever mentioned in any national player of the year conversations. Third, he went in the second round and has had a solid career, so how was he overrated?
I believe he was talking about Bill Walton, he probably put Luke by accident.
if that's the case and he was talking about Bill, then I can't really comment on whether he was overrated for being white since I didn't watch ball back then. but I do know he led UCLA to a title and shot like 21-22 in the championship game. He also was an NBA mvp candidate while leading portalnd to a title prior to injuries hurting his career.
Things might have been different 20+ years ago in terms of race in the nba, but I'm not seeing it now. I mean when Morrison or Mihm or some other white player turns out to be a dissapointment, maybe they were just overrated period and it had nothing to do with being white. Guys can be just overrated regardless of skin color. There are plenty of black players that have been overrated as well. I mean take the comparison of Trajan Langdon and JJ Redick, both similar players who were drafted in same spot and Langdon didn't make it in the nba. But you don't hear people saying anything about him or his race. But if Reddick struggles, then it must have something to do with himbeing white? I'm just not seeing it.
Let me start by repeating what I said earlier. The NBA and basketball in general has always been ahead of the rest of our country in terms of race relations. Having said that, there are still minor remnants of racism existing in terms of basketball.
By the way, I had the school wrong because I was thinking of his father, but I was talking about Luke Walton. I distinctly remember my brother and I asking each other why reporters, and so called draft experts, had Luke Walton's name in the mix for the national player of the year. The only conclusion we could come up with his it had to be the fact that he was a white player.
As for Chris Mihm, he was a white center who could jump so everyone was calling him the best big man in the country.
Something similar happened the last couple of years. There was another white guy on the Texas roster, I think his name was Connor Atchley [spelling?]. Even though he was averaging about 2 points and maybe 3 rbg, this website and others had him pegged as a potential NBA player. Come on, the only reason I could come up with for the hype was the fact that he was white.
There are several others on this list every year, the latest is probably Oglive, the center from Vanderbilt who is an excellent college player, but will go nowhere in the NBA.
As I said earlier, it goes both ways. When Steve Nash was amazing people with his incredibly high level of play, he earned 2 MVP awards in a row that were well deserved. However, some black players complained to the media saying he won because he was white. That allegation was ridiculous.
I'm going to repeat what I said earlier about Aran and many others who are in the habit of comparing white players only with other white guys. I was getting sick to my stomach hearing Tyler Hansbrough, a National Player of the Year, repeatedly compared to Mark Madsen, who was the NBA equivalent of a clunker. It appears as if Aran has trouble finding enough white guys who are still in the league, so he goes back to retired guys like Kurt Rambis and Vanderweghe [spelling?] if he can't find current active players for his white guy comparisons.
As for Hansbrough, in my opinion, his game was very similar to Leon Powe and L. Scola, only one of them is white. I also thought Hansrough had some similarities to Landry, but we were stuck with the Mark Madsen paradigm.
Aran compared BJ Mullens with Chris Kaman, and as I pointed out earlier, they have virtually nothing in common. By the way, BJ Mullens is another white guy with no game who kept getting hyped for the NBA draft. I watched him play at Ohio State and couldn't believe how bad he was. He made Kosta Koufas looked like Kareem A. Jabbar.
Once again, it works both ways. I thought it was interesting that many in this thread apparently thought Budinger wasn't drafted because he was white. Come on, the guy was a major disappointment every year at Arizona where he underperformed on a regular basis. Sure he has great leaping ability and a nice jump shot, but he's soft and he disappears in big games. Maybe he'll prove the pundits wrong, but he belonged in the 2nd round. I was surprised when he wasn't taken, but racism wasn't the reason.
Why wasn't DuJuan Blair taken until the 37th pick? Was it because he was black? Of course not, he wasn't taken because NBA GMs are enamored with offense and they were probably afraid of his ACL issue.
So yes, there are some lingering racial issues but I find it hard to believe an NBA GM makes his choice based on race. They are far too worried about winning and keeping their job. Many of them aren't very bright to begin with, but worrying about race probably isn't an issue.
llperez just shut this topic down. Excellent analysis.
I agree that it doesn't really matter about race when it comes to drafting guys. I think it seems to have more to do with cultural differences than anything else. Black or White, international players are known to be more finesse but less physical than US players, so there is probably more of a cultural bias than anything else.
Hey rtbt... I assume you watch football? Who would you compare Jordan Shipley to? I think a cross between Wayne Chrebet and Wes Welker... lol JK... he's definitely a Kevin Curtis type...Kidding again... Chris Kaman was quite athletic when he first came out of school, and their propencity to face up at inopportune times. But size wise they are quite similar. And besides the opinion based 'player comparison' the scout report is on. He definitely underachevied in college but he has the ability to be a solid center who can rebound, be a big post presence... I can't really defend the other ones.... for what its worth I think he compared Josh McRoberts to a later career Chris Webber.
BJ Mullens's hype was solely based on his upside and high school performance. There are tons of guys who don't have great numbers in college, yet are drafted high based on potential, especially big men. I really don't think the arguments for Mihm (who was injury prone) or Mullens being hyped because they are white is legit at all. If anything, blame the hype that surrounds any athletic 7 footer.
If anybody was talking about Luke Walton as player of the year, then it was probably based off his father, rather than being white. Damien Wilkins had similarly unjustified hype.
Hey everybody's entitled to their own opinion. You can believe what you want when guys like Chris Mihm, Luke Walton, BJ Mullens, Connor Atchley [Texas], A. Olgivey, etc. are over hyped. I'm not claiming there's no merit hidden in the hype, but I think these guys get a lot more publicity and hype because they're white and many people want to see more white stars in the game.
Can you count the number of NBADraft.net threads on BJ Mullens last spring? If he was a black prospect he would have gotten very little notice on this website.
As for Chris Kamen being compared with BJ Mullens, let me try again. Kamen has very little going for him athletically, but he has tons of crafty offensive moves which makes him a real threat on offense. He's also a decent rebounder. BJ Mullens has NO OFFENSIVE MOVES, he's a poor rebounder, and unlike Chis Kamen, he's very agile and athletic. Other than the fact that they're white 7 foot centers, I don't see any similarities in their game.
As for Luke Walton, yes he had a famous father but he was only an above average college player. In fact, he wasn't even the best player on his own team. Therefore, I don't buy the famous father reason for making him a media candidate for national player of the year.
At least Aran can try to find one of the hundreds of players currently in the NBA to use for his comparisons, as opposed to going back in time to use retired white players when he's doing a white player similar style on his draft list. Hopefully he won't use guys like Tommy Heinsohn and Jim Loscotoff. If you're old enough to remember them, don't admit it.
Hey Mkadoza, I thought that was a nifty little aside when you made those football analogies so for whatever it's worth, I gave you a point. But since you brought up the NFL, don't you wonder why the ONLY time they show player photos on screen when they enter the game is for place kickers and punters who are almost always white. They don't show anyone else's photos when they enter the game.
As you know, I was outraged by the Tyler Hansbrough - Mark Madsen analogy for obvious reasons. But if there is a white guy who legitimately resembles the style of a player, then go for it. For example, one of the players whom I would compare with Hansbrough is Louis Scola. I think their games are very similar so I would have no problem with that comparison. I'm not opposed to comparing white college players with a white NBA counterpart when the comparison has merit.
By the way, it works both ways, you almost never see black college players compared to a white NBA player.