kobe the best ever???
So if kobe wins 6 or mor rings is he the best ever? He doesn't have any weakness so I was wondering did anyone feel he should be considered the best ever? Also if lebron doesn't win any rings how will people feel about him? Jordan was never close to the shooter kobe is. Kobe's in the record books for most threes n a game when jordan made threes he shrugged his shoulders in disbelief.
I know I will get killed for this like the last time I said it but if Kobe wins 7 rings hes the best ever. If you look at his game hes has no weakness hes athletic, clutch, jumper, unguardable, etc... MJ was great but it seems like each year he gets better and that doesnt make sense to me sense he hasnt played a game in years. Kobe is great and deserves to be in the conversation for the greatest of alltime if he wins 6 or more rings. Now if Lebron never wins a ring than that just means that he would be a good player but not the greatest maybe not even top 5. But I think he will win one eventually but not this year.
this thread = lol.
Kobe is not the complete player MJ was. Kobe is very good but MJ was better all around
Kobe will be in the argument for best player of all time but in all honesty he will not surpassed Jordan but I will say this Kobe is better offensively and has all the skill that Jordan has but Jordan has some intangibles that you can not teach and also Jordan came first so Kobe studied his game and added so more pieces so with no Jordan would Kobe be as deadly. Who knows
There is no way Kobe is better than jordan 6-0 in the finals and finals MVP every time he carried the bulls to each of their championships the thing that i will never forget about kobe was a couple years ago when they played phoenix in game 7 of the playoffs the way he didnt bring it he was passive and he seemed as though he didnt care Jordan would never do that. And jordans defense was way better than kobe he won defensive player of the year when was the last tiem a guard won that.
Man you guys love to beat a dead horse with this topic
If you go by rings than Steve Kerr, Robert Horry are all time greats too.
Wow MJ never played with talent like this either Artest, Odom, Gasol, Bynum.
Closest he came was 96 team with Kukoc, Pippen, Rodman but none were as good offensively as Gasol.
Do the math Kobe will have played much longer to even get 6 rings.
Lebron is still couple months shy of 25 he's gotten close with nm around him he'll get some rings, not everyone gets to play with Shaq in his prime.
BTW Kobe isn't even top 5 yet get there first before thinking he's better than MJ.
Guys like Wilt, Kareem, Russell, MJ are much better its not even close.
I put Kobe number 2 behind Jordan right now, but let him finish his career before we make this decision. Most people would never give Kobe the edge over Jordan regardless of what he does though.
juggernaut, you say Kobe didn't improve his scoring until they changed the hand checking rule, but they actually changed that rule before Kobe was even in the league, so that is an invalid argument.
one reason he wont surpass jordan to some fans is because of the love the fans have for jordan..it happens alot. i still meet some of my older friends fathers who ay it dr j who was the jordan before jordan thats just how it seems to go. not matter what kobe does some will still say jordan and others will say jordan because they just dont like kobe. personally if kobe ends up winning 7 titles im not sure if i can disagree about him being better or at least equal. the fact that its even debateable shows you how good this guy really is.
I think they changed that rule around 1995. Houston/New York was one of the lowest rated(and ugliest) Finals ever, and the next year they looked to clean up the hand checking.
I've already said that Jordan is the greatest ever, but I don't think it is far off at all. Jordan was more efficient with his offensive moves and yes he had huge hands wich helped. Kobe honestly has more offensive skills in my book with better ball handling and perimeter shooting, but he settles for tougher shots and is a little less efficient. But if Kobe can get to 6 or 7 rings, then there is definitley a legit argument to be had.
exactly qunicey. There are people saying that Kobe and Lebron would never equal Jordan when they were still 23-25 years old. Some people have made up their minds and it doesn't matter what they do on the court. The fact is that Jordan did it first and everyone is gonna be compared to him.
kobe cant get to the rim?...what are you smoking..he doesnt go to the rim because it helps save energy to hit the midrange as well as the defender has less help, that pretty much common senses. jordan was the same way as he got older. you also deal with getting injured alot less..you go to the rim when you have to when you cant shake the defender or he plays too close up on you.
Air Juggernaut what you don't realize is that hand size has helped and hurt both Michael and Kobe. Large hands helped Michael mid range and finishing. However Kobe's hand's help him in dribbling, and three point shooting... Whether you guys like it or not this question is already answered. Kobe proved when he scored 81 that he is technically up there, and could do things Michael couldn't, but Kobe will never surpass Michael because of three reasons.
1. Kobe doesn't have Michael's charm (phil doesn't like him like he liked Mike, and neither does the media.)
2. He doesn't have Michael's story (Michael was the underdog who made...Kobe drafted out of highschool, picked his NBA team and coach)
3. He has a terrible agent, and advisors, (maybe they dont like him either) they handled the rape case/situation terribly.
What puts Jordan ahead of Kobe, at least for me, is his defensive prowess. This is the biggest separator between the two in my mind. Offensively, it could go either way. Kobe is better from the perimeter, but Jordan was better from the post.
This is a rediculous argument, Kobe is good and will be considered great BUT I doubt he will ever be considered better than MJ to anyone born in or before the 80's. Sure some kids who have never seen Jordan play may say he's better but that's because they don't know. No one and I mean no one has the competitive fire and killer instinct that Jordan has, hell did you see his HOF speech, he was bringing it there which tells you about that guy. Jordan was a tenacious defender and no one has proven more clutch than MJ ever. Not to mention that when Jordan played, the game was much more physical and he had to endure some defensive schemes that you can't get away with no adays. When MJ played the knicks he all but got murdered relentlessly and still would drop 45+ on em. This isn't even arguable in my mind.
wait how was jordan the underdog who didnt make it?..he was cut from varsity as a soph in highschool..its pretty common for a soph not to make varsity esspecially on a good team...jordan ended up being a all american ater hs and dominated the mcdonals game then help win a title as a freshman then dominated scoring wise when he got to the nba...so how exactly is he a underdog in any sense of the word?...jordan didnt post and fade away till he got older. and airjugg you making less and less since when you say scoring 81 or 61 one doesnt mean squat when playing against a nba team..if it didnt mean anything or was so easy then everyone would be doing it. and if it didnt mean squat why were his peers in the nba talking about how amazing it was and how they went home so they can watch it on sports center???..maybe in doesnt mean squat to you but it seems to just about every fan and players who play the game for a living and are good it means a tad more then squat
I'm sick of seeing the topic, so I should probably stop responding, but I can't help it. MJ is the best. Dominate player on both ends of the court, always showed up in big games, always the best player on the floor every given night. If he doesn't take a few years off to play baseball, I guarantee you have rings for those years, more scoring titles and he ends up playing way better in the years after the first comeback.
Kobe has it easy. He's always had good teammates. Look how many guys looked like garbage after they left the Bulls. Played a large chunk of his career under not only the same coach as Jordan, but with Shaq when he was unstoppable and he was the sidekick. Since Shaq has been gone, they have only put players around him that will defer to him. I could make a great case that he has stunted the growth of Ariza, Farmar, and Walton. Farmar is a good point guard, but he has so much trouble getting playing time because he cannot play his game because of Kobe and the other two can really play but have somewhat limited themselves and become very hesitant because they don't want to upset Kobe. Anyone that watched the finals against the Celtics noticed how he didn't show up every game or possession. Switch Kobe that year with Wade or Lebron and Lakers win the series. Last years finals, there were games where Pau was the best player on the court and he was doing a lot of damage on very few shot attempts and against the defensive player of the year. Put Reddick, Peitrus, and a rookie (Courtney Lee) on MJ in the finals and I honestly believe that he would average at least 40 for the series.
it kills me when people try to bash one person person in order to make there aruguemnt that someone else is better. whats funny is when the same peopel try to say they are better then this or that guy because they dominated players in a rec leauge or open gym
kobe has it easy?..its never easy to do what he does and jordan didnt have bums on his team..hoarce grant was a all star and when he wasnt he was damn near close..kuko was a very good player pippen was top 50 all time and a great all around player, rodman was one of the best rebounders ever come on now. im not saying hes better then jordan but to say kobe has it easy is a slap in the face..should i say bill russel had it easy since his team was loaded as well as having one of the best coaches of all time?..how about magic having it easy or players at ucla when they won all those titles..and how has kobe stunted the growth of ariza?..what case can you make for that??..if any thing he helped, do you not recall what arezia did before playing with kobe and the lakers?..you saying it like arezia was tearing it up before going to l.a...and farmer messes up out there all on his own..even when hes out there with the second unit. farmar can play his game because of the triangle it has zero to do with kobe. on top of that as a player you are suppossed to adjust youre game to the team. can i say jordan stunted bj armstrongs game or steve kerrs game?..nope cuz that would make no sense..youre case would fit much better with jordan as far as players not wantin to upset him because everyone knows how much of a tyrant he was.
and whats the topic?..will kobe be thought of as the best ever if he wins more rings. i dont think the topic is ..is he better now...he still has a couple years left so why are someof ya'll talking about is he better now when his career isnt even over yet?
I hear what you're trying to say and I agree that MJ is the best ever, however...
"Kobe had it easy" and "He's always had good teammates" is absurd lol. Kobe led a team to the playoffs with Smush Parker as his starting point guard... Kwame Brown... KWAME BROWN as his starting center. They almost upset the Suns, who were a very good team, that year.
"I could make a great case that he has stunted the growth of Ariza, Farmar and Walton"... HUH? Ariza was NOTHING before he was traded to the Lakers. NOTHING. He's in for a rude awakening this year when he finds out how hard it is to find open shots now that he's no longer playing with Kobe. Walton would be forgotten about if he wasn't playing with Kobe and the Lakers. Farmar... If anything, he's stunted his own growth by not performing. Shannon Brown, another player who was nothing before joing the Lakers and has benefited from playing with Kobe, outperformed Farmar during the playoffs.
I understand what you're trying to say, but don't bash Kobe.
you actually put everything that i was trying to say in better words...couldnt have said it better myself
And you're absolutely ridiculously silly if you think Jordan's teammates didn't want to upset him. Jordan's stare and temper was even more menacing than Kobe's. We just didn't hear about MJ's as much as we do about Kobe's.
what does you living in l.a have to do with knowing kobes limitations?..just about everyone in l.a knows the same amount about kobe as people living in other places seeing as kobe doesnt go to open gyms or hangs around everyday people. living in l.a has zero to do with knowing anymore about kobe then someone living in alaska unless its games watched...and now adays not even that since wit leauge pass you can watch every laker game
who said kobe is the best ever?..are you just making up youre own topics?..what doesnt scoring titles have to do with being the best ever?..bill russell is mentioned as one of the best ever how many scoring titles has he won?...the topic is will kobe be considered the best ever after winning more titles...pay attention...that will be as dumb as me saying i think oscar is the best since he had more tiple doubles..how many triple doubles did jordan or kobe have?
So if kobe wins 6 or mor rings is he the best ever?..thats actually the debate fourm topic airrjuggernaut..so youre actully pretty funny...read the first sentence instead of just looking at the topic...no wonder you went to jr college..on top of all that you gave percentage as youre evidence..well how about we apply it to youre life shall we...theres zero evidence that you have any game ..you didnt do anything in highschool and wasnt good enough at a juco college yet you claim you are better then other players who have actually made it. but when someone uses that evidence or lack of for youre ability you get upset. now that right there is real funny
you actually dont have to get invited to go to most of the dleauge camps..you can just ask..and which team is this..just curious so i can findout for myself
wow real kobe is trash..this comming from a guy trying to get his foot in the door for probasketball?...thats interesting
basically you didnt get any invites.....i figured as much
lol..you suck...youre videos suck..you have no real bounce..and chances are 99 percent that you wont make it playing for money unless you challenege a kid one of one for money..the eveidence pretty much shows you have no game..you didnt do antyhing in highschool and you couldnt cu it in juco..you should stop throwing a pity party for youre self and go get a job because basketball will never be youre job...im not even sure why you told him about eurobasketball quincy because hes obviously not anywhere near good enough to get a job playing over there. do you know how bad you even have to be to be 6'7 (as he claims) and not have ANY colleges d1,2,3 naia wanting you to play for them.
A few notes before i post my thorough view on the subject
A) you CANNOT go the career numbers route. Jordan started and was the man from day one. Kobe went to a team with 4 all-stars (Yes 4, Van Excel, Shaq, Eddie Jones & Cedric Ceballos were all on the All-star team his rookie season)
He didn't even START until year 3. so his scoring average takes a HUGE hit with his 7.6 rookie year & 15.4 as a soph.
B) Yes jordan dealt with hand checking... but he DIDNT have to deal with ZONES. Let me see you get to the rim like MJ he with 7ft & MORE athletic players waiting for you.
C) Media. Jordan was more loved ONLY because the media isnt like it is now. Beat writers didnt put out the scandals & BS because they traveled with the teams. TELL ME that if MJ played in today's media crazed, TMZ twitter generation that his cheating on his wife, gambling, punching two teamates in practice, ect would not have been covered differently?HE'D BE THE POSTER CHILD FOR ALL THAT'S WRONG with athletes. His timing was perfect which is what saved him
Now im a MJ fan FYI, but im also a realist. & Im a kobe fan as well.
IF we are going to do this comparison, PLEASE lets at least put it in a vaccum & be fair. compare them from age 22-30 if you like. A better sample size, or Jordan's 1st 5 years as "The Guy" to Kobe's 1st 5 years as "The Guy" We can start there. I'll be back
thats a pretty good post micheal. also most people dont realize that the guy who made this post is asking if kobe would be considered better if he wins 6rings which in all honesty is possible..im a fan of both and i think jordan is better now but jordan finished his career and kobe still has a couple great years left so after that i think it would be fair to truely discuss who the better player was
Thanx Q. I feel exactly the same way. It's like a movie being 3 quarters filmed & people arguing if it's the best movie of all time. Can they finish filming it? Yes i understand that Scorcese & James Cameron are co-directing, & Pacino, DeNiro, Denzel & Tom Hanks are in it, but can we see the finished product before we compare? LOL
you dont wanna do that...yeah im up there in age..but my record speaks for my self..
42 years old
and you can look me up my record speak for it self......i wouldnt even waste my time comming to where you are and beating you because you obviously have no game..i played last year at 41 and youre what 20 years younger then me and still cant even get a college scholarship?....then the fact you claim to not be able to find a place where ballers play in l.a???..obviously youre just scared to play or you already went and got youre a$$ handed to you. im not even from l.a but i know where to go and play ball
It's like comparing Ali and Tyson. Ali beats Tyson because Ali is the well rounded entertainer. Mike wins.
P.S. Kobe really wild out with his sneaker situation. Addidas, then Nike unofficial Kobe shoes, then finally a Kobe shoe. Michael had 15 great sneakers by then. Kobe allows Nike to make him a puppet designed for Lebron "witness" campaign.
seems liek kobe just goes where the money is which is not a bad idea..id go from addidas to nike if one offered this amount of money then the other upped it. i can never hate on a player for doing that