Let's start with Derozan 1st:
Ok, now I know alot of people like him and think he's the next Vince Carter and everything, but why? What is he good at as a player? I don't think he's much of a slasher despite being a great athlete, because he has trouble handling the ball even when going in a straight line at times! I can dribble in a straight line without losing control, and I'm not on the NBA's hot list or a true college basketball prospect. No excuse. And he's a spot-up mid-range shooter, now who has ever survived in the NBA as a spot-up MID RANGE shooter playing SG? I can't think of anyone. And for his physical tools, he is a very mediocre defender and rebounder. What I'm saying is, how can he be an NBA player with nothing in the form of NBA skills? Is he going to be a player that gets all of his production through fast breaks? Because that's not going to cut it for a Toronto team that's not transition-happy. I don't think Derozan will be very good quite frankly.
Does anyone think Devin Harris is an elite PG in the NBA? Because I don't. I think he's an electric scorer/slasher and a merely mediocre creator for other. If he scores a bunch, there's a good chance that other teammates won't be a real part of the offense. And if he passes a bunch, his own points will be sacrificed. The thing that separates the NBA's elite (CP3, Deron Williams) is that they can score and pass and still get their own offense with little to no sacrifice in production. Harris used to be an intense energy guy/defender when he played for the Mavs. When is the last time Devin Harris played good defense for game-long stretches? When he played for the Mavs. So it shows me that Harris has to focus the majority of his attention to one part of his game to be at HIS best. I think he's an elite SCORER at the PG position, but do I consider him an elite PG? Not at all...
What are your thoughts on this?
As for Derozan, I think the Carter comparisons and even predicting him to be an all star are a far stretch. He has to work on a lot of things to even come close to that. But I do think he will be a very good player with a lot of upside. I compare him to Richard Jefferson. Derozan has a decent pull up shot off the dribble from mid range even with a defender in his face. He can square up and get shots over guys. And unlike a lot of guys who are mostly known for athleticism (Gerald Green for example), Derozan has the ability and willingness to mix it up and get physical on the court. He can Finish through some contact, hit the glass and does not back down defensively. But yes, he does a have a lot of work to do on all his skill categories. I think Toronto is a great fit for him because they are mostly a skilled finnesse team and Derozan is a tough athletic slasher type who should find his spots.
As for Harris, I think his jumper has improved drasticly since entering the league. He has always had good speed. I think he is a legitimate all star caliber pg and should be ranked somewhere between 5 -8 pg's in the league right now.
I agree more on Harris than on DeRozan, I think Harris is a Ellis type player, but Ellis has more potential. For DeRozan, I think you are underrating him a bit, but also I don't think he will be nearly as good a Carter really was, He is not just a spot up midrange shooter, he can shoot off the dribble and has a nice pull up, I think his athleticism is alittle overrated, he is explosive but no way is he V.C. explosive, V.C. was superior in every sense of athleticism, plus his speed isn't great or his first step, that said with some refining of his game and hard work I think he can get to a semi-allstar level
O yea he's a top 5-8 PG because he's such a great scorer, but when guys say he's better than players like Tony Parker and Rajon Rondo that's when I have a problem. And Im not even bringing championships into the equations with them. He isn't nearly the overall player to be considered better than those guys.
I would put Harris ahead of Rondo, but I'm just not as high on rondo as most people. His defense might be the best in the league at the pg. But he also might be the worst shooter at pg that starts in the league. Defenses play off him and he get's a lot of his lanes and scoring opportunities because teams are leaving him to gaurd others. With Devin, he is the man the other teams are trying to stop. Imagine how much more dangerous Ray Allen, Pierce, Kg and others would be if teams had to constantly lock in and help on Devin Harris while they picked their spots.
Mikenike: I think Derozan has an upside, but when I watched him play he wasn't even able to get by on athleticism the way most "super" athletes do, even when they have subpar skill-sets ala Richard Jefferson. Derozan is a great athlete, but so are a majority of the wings in the NBA so I think its time that people stop using that scape goat if you know what I mean.
I mean Harris isn't exactly gameplanned against from shooting jumpers now...teams go underneath screens alot as well. He made under one 3-pointer a contest, so he doesn't qualify as much of a shooter. He would play a Rondo type role with the Celtics if he played for them, except he would focus more on defense than playmaking since he's not a pure playmaker like Rondo.
i agree 99%
yeah, but how many jumpers would harris hit if he was guarded like Rondo is guarded? My point was that teams can't play off him like they do rondo. If you watch how the lakers beat the celtics both games last year, they put Kobe on rondo and he gaurded him the same exact way he gaurds Ronnie Brewer. More teams should do that on Rondo imo.
Devin Harris isn't a good shooter contested or uncontested. The only player that guards Rondo like that is Kobe anyway, Kobe does that with everyone he guards in the playoffs. Because he guards guys that can't shoot or suck offensively every series. Everyone else just go underneath screens and picks and take the average approach to guarding a guy that can't shoot when assigned to Rondo. And he still gets to the paint and creates. That shows me something about Rondo. Not to mention that Rondo outplays Harris head-to-head everytime.
I wouldn't say Harris is not a good shooter. He's not great at it, but when he get's a look, it usually looks good. Plus, he had a lot of good mid range pull up jumpers off the dribble where he created for himself.
As for Rondo, like I said, I think less of him then most on this site so all I can say is we will see how he does next season. ROndo was not that special at Kentucky his 2 years there. He was battling Delonte West and Marcus Banks for minutes as a rookie. And no one was calling him anything special until he won a title with the big 3 around him. I know he has obviously gotten better, but to me he is overrated. But we will see during the season i guess.
I would say Devin Harris is a bad shooter. He shot 29% last season on 3's, and that's the best of his entire career. He made less than 1 a game.He can shoot pull-ups OK, but nothing to get excited about there either.
Rondo was nothing special because Tubby Smith underutilized him and when he did use him, he used him completely wrong. He used Rondo off the ball at times, ridiculously dumb I know. He also used Kellena Azuibuike of the Warriors wrong and made him seem like an underachiever. When he really is a rotation player and 15 ppg scorer in the NBA. And everyone knew Rondo had infinite potential when he was at Kentucky. He had 19 rebounds one game, and made alot of jaw-dropping dunks and passes. Everyone knew he had the ability to be a top PG in the NBA. His time at Kentucky wasn't stellar, but that was strictly Tubby Smith's fault. They had Final 4 talent on their squad.
He overtook West and Banks and Sebastian Telfair as well the previous season. That's why all of them were moved and he was the only one retained after the barrage of trades they made that off-season. They knew he was the PG of the future.
He may be overrated to you, but many of the coaches and GM's have said he's the player that ,ake the Celtic's go. Not Garnett, not Pierce, not Allen. It was Rondo. He was probably the biggest factor in the Finals that year and in the 1st round of the playoffs last seaosn against Chicago. All he does is set up guys and put pressure on defenses and opposing backcourts.
I think harris is in the uppier tier of pgs in the league, you say he doesnt play any defense, how many of the leagues best scorers are u right at the top on D, when he played last year he was the number 2 option somenights number one, who else was gunna score? I personally think he has a nice mid range game, the reverse between the legs step back jumper is one of the most ungaurdable moves in the game, he also puts so much pressure on the defense that it does open things up for his teammates whether it was intention or not, I 100% agree with the 3 pointers though for him to make it to the top he needs to get that percentage way up,
as for derozan he will never be the next vince carter! He is not the athlete carter was doesnt have the handles or passing ability of carter either. Vince could also stroke # pts from deep and when he catches fire theres not many better, the only thing he will have more of then carter is passion and can play D if he really focuses
One important thing to consider nowadays in the salary cap era. If you look at his contract he is a lot better than guys at the same pay/years. That comes into play big time
DeRozan still has so much more ways to go. Too early to judge him.
i cant agree with devin..hes improved every year and he can score as well as get other involved with assist. hes not a all star for no reason. the kid can ball..hes not the best shooter in the world but he doesnt have to be..its like youre boy iggy iggy..hes a bad 3point shooter alos (32% to harris 31) but he finds ways to score. the thing with devin though is his jumper will get better. he proved last year that he belongs in the discussion and this year he will prove it even more. he also has gotten better and ups his averages every year. im not to sold on derozen yet..i do liek his mid range game and hes pretty active.. hes still young and learning and still working on his guard game( more of a pf in hs as a jr and his handles and jumper were wayyyyyy worst. hes come a long way and is still learning
All this crap about DeRozan, why not wait and see instead of critisising him?
I agree 100% about Derozan, not at all about Harris.
by jason flemming
DeRozan Fast Learner: Toronto Raptors head coach Jay Triano really likes what he's seeing from rookie swingman DeMar DeRozan. He's athletic, he hustles, he works on defense, and – perhaps most importantly – you only have to tell him something once. Triano discussed DeRozan's play with Doug Smith of the Toronto Star, using a snapshot from a preseason game as an example.
"We told him (once), the previous possessions that he was stuck in the corner and he either has to get back or go to the glass, he can't just stay there because we had a fast break on us going the other way," said Triano.
"The next time he decides to go to the glass, which he has the option to do, and he gets a slam dunk.
"The kid listens to you and he's a great learner and I think that's what's going to make him a great basketball player."
Here are the key stats for DeRozan in each of the Raptors' first four games:
Game 1: 9 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 3-7 shooting
Game 2: 9 points, 3 rebounds, 1 assists, 2 steals, 4-10 shooting
Game 3: 11 points, 3 rebounds, 3-8 shooting
Game 4: 19 points, 3 rebounds, 1 block, 5-12 shooting, 9-10 free throws
All four of those games have been starts for DeRozan – the first two losses and the second two wins. The Raptors would still like to see him concentrate more on the floor and work on getting on the glass, but so far it looks like the team is very pleased with their lottery pick.
I agree with both points especially on derozen I watched a lot of USC's games and he never really impressed me im not saying that he is not good but i never got that wow factor seeing him play he is very atheletic but that can only get you so far look at darius miles his jump shot is not consistent and he doesnt really blow past people.
As for devin harris i dont consider him in the class of b davis, j kidd, c paul or d williams he is not that type of player i think he is a shooting guard trapped in a point guards body but he is good and he can score with anyone he just isnt the prototypical pg.
not a prototypical point guard correct but still a very good pg(allstar last year)..can score and pass