Dwyane Wade???
GregOden08... Who do you think you are? You're just joing this conversation and making statements like you're the person who's opinion is the tie breaker or the one that lays down the law.
I was talking about being guarded ONE ON ONE. My point was that Pietrus was way more affective guarding LeBron than he was Kobe. Kobe torched Pietrus easily because Kobe has a complete offensive game. Kobe doesn't have to rely on pure physical dominance to dominate. You can't guard Kobe the same way you guard LeBron. That was my point. Then you come out of nowhere talking about "Did I watch Kobe in the Finals versus the Celtics?"... Get the f*ck out of here. That had zero to do with what I was talking about.
ha umm... Tezo look at Lebrons stats in that series 49, 35,41,44, 37, 25 (pts through each game) that is well above LeBrons average, and I know stats dont tell the whole story because i watched the whole series, and Peitrus played much better D than these #'s indicate but LeBron did will his team to victory in basically all the games they one, get what im sayin?
ha umm... Tezo look at Lebrons stats in that series 49, 35,41,44, 37, 25 (pts through each game) that is well above LeBrons average, and I know stats dont tell the whole story because i watched the whole series, and Peitrus played much better D than these #'s indicate but LeBron did will his team to victory in basically all the games they one, get what im sayin?
just wanted u to see this
Where did you see me say anything about stats??? All I said was that Pietrus was way more effective guarding LeBron James than he was Kobe Bryant. READ. You can't guard Kobe the same way you can guard LeBron. Kobe has a much more diverse offensive game. Pietrus had zero success guarding Kobe. That was my point. Let's just drop it because y'all ain't reading lol.
Where did you see me say anything about stats??? All I said was that Pietrus was way more effective guarding LeBron James than he was Kobe Bryant. READ. You can't guard Kobe the same way you can guard LeBron. Kobe has a much more diverse offensive game. Pietrus had zero success guarding Kobe. That was my point. Let's just drop it because y'all ain't reading lol.
Ok i can see your getting a little fiesty, but you need to understand my point, im using stats partly to backup my arguement, Pietrus did play good D, but no-one can guard LeBron ,as seen when he won games in that series all alone in crunch time, so i really dont consider that being "shut down" or whatever u said.
You're entitled to your own opinion for sure and I'm definitely down for an argument... That's what makes it fun lol. The thing is you came on here talking about Kobe versus the Celtics when that had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was just saying that the same defense that slowed (I never said Pietrus shut LeBron down) LeBron one on one did NOT even phase Kobe. That was my whole point and y'all are jumping overboard.
I didn't say LeBron was shut down phellas lol. I'm just saying that Pietrus defended LeBron REALLY well and slowed him down one on one. He made LeBron take tough shots and forced him into rushed decisions. All I said was that, that same defense did NOT work against Kobe because Kobe doesn't need to rely on physical dominance or athletic ability to dominate. Pietrus was at Kobe's mercy due to Kobe's complete offensive arsenal. Man... That's all I said lol.
Iguodala ur wrong man. LeBron had way more 50 point games last year. Wade has only scored 50 once, and that was when he dropped 50 on Orlando last year in a loss. LeBron had multiple 50 point games last year. Anyways i think Wade is a great player, but he doesnt win enough to be in the same league as Kobe and LeBron. Blame it all u want on his supporting cast, but if u ask Wades team last year was much better than the team LeBron dragged to the Finals in 2007. And people saying that LeBron just gets by on brute strength must not watch basketball. He is a great ball handler and imo probably a top 3 passer in the league. He makes some unbeliavable passes and thats probably his strongest attribute. By the way this is comin from a kobe lover. Wade is great, but he isn't in LeBron and Kobe's league. Thos guys elevate their teamates more than anyone in the league
I went on nba.com and got those stats. I said LBJ had 3 50 point games...doesnt that count as the "multiple" word you used? You can go check if you want.
Matter of fact, I'll check it out for ya:
Wade's 50 pt games in 08-09:
March 14 vs. Utah: 50 pts.
Feb. 22 vs. Orlando: 50 pts.
Apr. 12 vs NY Knicks : 55 pts.
Lebron's 50 pt games in 08-09:
Mar 13 vs. Sacremento: 51 pts
Feb. 20 vs Milwaukee: 55 pts
Feb 4 vs. NY Knicks: 52 pts.
That's 3 50 point games...I have my facts right sir.
the thing with stats is these guys are all so close you can interpret them any way you want and make any of the guys look like number one. But when I watch these guys play, I just don't see Wade being better then Kobe or Lebron. The biggest differnece is he is no where near the perimiter shooter they are. And don't just give me stats, because Lebron and Kobe take a lot more 3's. Atlanta was not playing well in that first round last year, and all 4 of their victories were blow outs.
Iggy, this isn't a past argument. As you stated earlier. Wade doesn't win it w/o Shaq anyway. I'm not saying Wade isn't a winner, but I am pretty sure the Heat would do a LeBron for Wade swap in a second and the Cavs would say hell no. LeBron does more with his teammates. Wade gets good assist numbers but he a ballhog, more so then LeBron (who is also a ballhog) and he is less efficient with the ball as well. I'll take LeBron and the Heat last year and you take Wade and the Cavs last year and I just don't think you can say the Cavs are better with Wade or that they win as many games at they did.
I wont think that way, because it's fake. And yea, I didnt want to include the past in the argument, but since thats the case what has Lebron won? If you havent won a championship you havent won anything. Wade has. Winning is more than a one season thing. You cant say someone is a winner based off one season, a season that they didnt even when anyhthing. I wont consider one good season winning. Wade is the better winner than Lebron is.
wow someone here is a big lebron hater.
first off, if I were you I wouldn't use your argument saying the cavaliers would've made the playoffs "easy" last year without lebron. are you serious? lebron is a one man show who has to play 40 mins/game for them. no I don't believe the heat would make the playoffs if they didn't have dwyane wade either, both the cavs and the heat at the bottom of the eastern conference without them.
secondly, you're hating on lebron for not getting past the cavs, but what about the heat? they couldn't even get past the first round? and then you say dwyane wouldn't let one man stop him? so tell me what happened in the series against the hawks last year? Lebron was not shut down by pietrus, look at his stats, he averaged over 33 ppg i think. i know stats don't say everything, but Lebron can only do so much for the cavs. if you're a second option on an elite playoff team, you can't falter in big playoff games, as mo williams and delonte west did.
it's ok to disagree whether who's better b/w the two, but saying the cavs are easily a playoff team without lebron is just ridiculous. and hating on him for not single handedly getting past the magic in the eastern conference finals is too because dwade's team didn't fair too well in the playoffs, they busted in the first round
are you looking at what wade did? he got a rookie pg and another rookie that is cant play defense and they played against the same team that gave boston problem the year before. come on wade did his best to carry them but he cant score 100 against a young team that isnt sorry. that should show you who got the better team.
LeBron has won more games then Wade. Or if you wanna put injuries into it, wins per games played and I know for a fact that LeBron's team a few years ago is not better then the roster the Miami Heat had this year and they still did work in the playoffs. Wade has won how many series w/o Shaq? LeBron has won how many with no one? LeBron is a winner, Wade championship is so damn overrated. What has he done in the playoffs other then that?
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
If you can't see it, it projects the Cavs to lose more games with Wade the LeBron. Barely but still argues my point.
And don't you dare say Wade was the entire reason the Heat improved this year, everyone says that but it's crap. They got Jermaine O'Neal, Mario Chalmers, Michael Beasley and James Jones plus DaeQuan Cook had a year to improve.
Mo Williams, West, Wally S, Varejao, Big Z vs. Chalmers, Jones/Cook, Beasley, Haslem, O'Neal. You can't tell me that the Cavs lineup would dominate, not at all. Pretty equal if you ask me with the Heat dominating the frontcourt.
The Cavs lineup would win. Are you serious? Beasley, O'Neal and Haslem vs. Wally,Big Z and Varejao would be a push..no domination there. And Mo Williams and West would be the better backcourt.
How can you say Wade's championship is overrated? What does that sound like? Are you saying that is overrated because Lebron James doesnt have one?
The Heat has very serviceable players that shouldn't be starters. Jermaine O'Neal is the only guy that was a true NBA-level starter of all the players you listed above, and he's not even close to what he used to be. Wade was the biggest reason they won the games they did, I wont say the entire reason because that would be taking all production from his teammates away. He was the best player in basketball last season and he carried them on his back, because that was not a playoff team at all. They could've easily been the worst team in basketball without him.
You cant say a player that hasn't won anything is more of a winner than a person that has. It means nothing if you win the most games in the regular season and don't win the Championship. That's like climbing highest up a mountain at 1st, and then the person behind you gets to the top before you. I refuse to say the person who was highest at 1st is the winner over the person that actually climbed the mountain.
It's overrated because he hasn't done anything since then in the playoffs. It could be a fluke of him playing that well for all we know. Umm Varejao and Wally suck so yeah Beasley would eat them alive. O'Neal, Chalmers and Beasley are all decent to good starters. Him being the best player in basketball is a joke, who would you rather have as guy to build around James or Wade? If you answer Wade, then I dunno, something is up. In one thing you said, he is a better scorer then James? You can't prove that. Are you gonna go by scoring numbers? well James was more efficient, took less shots and I believe played less min. Wade had more turnovers, and gets every call except in Atlanta (glad someone can get it right). James got a ton of BS calls in the playoffs, I'll give you that but Wade is benefitting from refs to score a lot of points. I honestly don't know how anyone can say Wade is better then LeBron. He does nothing better but defend more consistently. That's literally it.
Beasley would give up just as many points if not more when guarding Wally and Varejao. He wouldnt score any points down low against Vareajo either. He wasnt more efficient either. Chalmers is a backup PG, notice how many times he actually plays PG when Wade is on the floor. Hardly ever. He stands in the corner. Decent to good starters dont not play off the ball the majority of the time when they are PG's. Beasley didnt even start for the vast majority of the season, and wasnt much of a standout when he came off the bench. Wade took more shots, but he still hit at a 49.1 % clip to Lebron's 48.9 % clip. It's very close, but Wade was more efficient. Wade also had more assists than him (7.5 to 7.2), and better defensive stats. The stats Lebron outdid him in last season was rebounding, 3 point percentage, and free throw shooting. Im not discussing the refs, sounds like excuses to me.
Varejao against Beasley and your saying Beasley would be outmatched? You have got to be kidding. Wade had way more turnovers, that's efficiency not .2 % better shooting percentage. You can take your combo guard, and I'll take my guy who can play all 5 positions and build a good team around. The assist numbers are funny because Wade has the ball in his hands more then Bron and plays more but only won by .3, as a guard to LeBron being a wing.
I guess the Magic didn't play any team defense against LeBron...Ok that makes sense. Kobe was terrible against the Celtics in the finals and LeBron did an excellent job when he played the Celtics in the playoffs. It's all about match ups man.