Lebron vs. Carmelo
Why the Kobe/Lebron arguments? They play different positions, they are not in the same age group, and Kobe has 4 rings to Lebron's none. Meanwhile Carmelo and Lebron same age, same position, same draft class, same height, same ringless fingers...and hasn't Melo at least earned something with his great playoff performance against the best the western conference has to offer???
P.S. Don't forget Carmelo avereaged more points and more rebounds than Lebron rookie year, and he was on a playoff team...yet Lebron rookie of the year, hmmm?
had a sorry roster and James was the PG for much of the season.
Please stop comparing Kobe's 4 rings to Lebron it makes no sense, Lebron has been in the league 6 years no one is winning 4 rings in that time. Kobe has played in more than twice as many years than him also.
Give Lebron a young Shaq, Fisher, Horry, Fox back than & Phil Jax and see what he does.
I can not believe that Melo averaged .1 more points and .2 more rebounds than LeBron and was ROBBED of Rookie of the Year. What a travashamockery. Sarcasm aside, I think the LeBron vs. Melo argument is quite obsolete, as it is obvious who the better player is and always has been. LeBron's court vision has always separated him from Melo by light years, not to mention the previous posters valid point of the weak squad LeBron had during his rookie year. It took LeBron three years until his first play-offs and one more until his first finals, and by the way, this was the first year Melo made it out of the first round, and Chauncey Billups was definitely the leader of that team. Do not even try to give me the Mo Williams and Chauncey Billups comparison, for fear that you might have to plead insanity in a court of basketball peers. If you are comparing careers, their is no way you can put LeBron anywhere near Kobe at this point, but as far as current scale of the NBA is concerned, it seems that LeBron is bridging the gap. I still think Kobe is the best player in the league, but when Jerry West calls you the best in the league (which he said about LeBron), I tend to take that into heavy consideration. For now, Carmelo is not in the same league as a Kobe or LeBron or even a Dwyane Wade, plus I for one do not think he has yet to earn the billing as a top 5 or even top 10 player in the league. He still shows little to no effort defensively and his amazing offensive skill set has seemed to somewhat have hit a plateau making him much less of a consistent scorer than many other players in this league. Keep arguing for Carmelo though, see where it gets you, you would make one hell of a commentator for ESPN.
People argue between Kobe and Lebron becuase they are the two best players. Carmelo is very good, but not in that discussion.
you forget Lebron led a horrible team to the finals. and if Lebron had players like Billups, Nene, and Jr next to him he would bee easily better than last years record and would probably win a title that team was great defensively and Melo was only okay but with Lebron coming they would be amazing. and he has some great sidekicks Nen, Jr and Billups who can actually step up in the playoffs and nor make them a one dimensional team. easily Lebron.
Ok keep comparing Kobe to Lebron you just look as stupid a Nike did. Lebron and Carmelo should be compared, it makes sense. Lebron and Kobe have nothing to do with each other. If the 5 best are Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo, Dwayne Wade and Chris Paul...it makes zero sense to compare Kobe and Lebron they have nothing in common. Atleast Kobe/Wade they both have rings and they are both guards.
P.S. Rookie of the year, come on now guys that was rigged. Melo led his team to the playoffs (lebron couldn't) while averaging more points and rebounds(wow). I'm just saying reward a player for what he does not what you think he'll do, roy robbery and you are all witnesses.
the rookie of the year argument doesn't help that much because Okafor beat out Howard for the ROY and who's better now?
well, I agree that Carmelo should have won rookie of the year. But Carmelo is not a top 5 player right now, so if you want to compare him with Lebron, then it is easily Lebron. But It's not like Kobe and Lebron are completly different players like comparing a Jordan with Shaq. They do simialr things and play similar roles and thus they are compared because they are the best.
Oh the roy I keep adding just to show Carmelo has been slighted since he stepped into the league.
Hey, hey, hey! Slow down with the Carmelo bashing! If Lebron James is improving, so is Carmelo, and I personally saw more growth from Carmelo as a complete player last year than any other year. Despite the virtually identical stats, he was a vastly improved man-to-man defender, taking it up to a new level playing Kobe Braynt as well as I've seen anyone, using his superior strength and size to bother Braynt. This tells me two things. He's starting to make a commitment to not only playing defense, but choosing to defend the best scorer on the other team. And it also shows that he's starting to understand how to use his unique set of physical gifts to create mismatches defensively as well as offensively. He always had an innate understanding for how to use whatever skills he had to score efficiently, and if he starts using those instincts on defense, he'll be once of the better perimeter defenders in the league. Expanding his range to have a consistent three point shot, combined with the best offensive rebounding wing in the league, and you've got a scoring title candidate. He could put up 28-7-4 this year with improving defense out of a 25 year old... I know how good Lebron is, and Wade and Kobe, but when you watch how much attention Melo gets, and how impossible to stop he is on the offensive end, his impact in the game is almost as big. He doesnt have to do everything on the team, but he's still a franchise, top ten player in the league. He's a top 20 scorer all time by PPG over his career, and we havent seen the best from him.
Lebron deserved ROY:
PPG RPG APG StPG BPG
Melo: 21 6.1 2.8 1.2 .5
LBJ: 20.9 5.5 5.9 1.6 .7
Pretty much dead even, except that James averaged twice as many assists per game.
oh and the playoff absence?
pureshooter, I have zero bias towards either guy, but you can't just look at stats. I had a bet with 3 other guys that year who would win rookie of the year, so we all paid close attention throughout the season. And we all agreed that Melo was the rookie of the year. Stats do not mean everything. You have to factor in that Melo was on a solid playoff team as well.
OK, who would you rather have as a supporting cast? Would it be Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Carlos Boozer way before he was an All-Star caliber player, a bunch of shot jacking wing guys (Buckets and Darius, who were traded early in the year, a hurt DaJuan Wagner, Eric Williams and Jeff McInnis, or would you take the group with Andre Miller, Marcus Camby, a healthy Nene, some nice role guys like Jon Barry, Chris Andersen, a healthy Voshon Lenardand Earl Boykins? I think we know who had the better supporting cast, and it wasn't the team with Jef McInnis running point.
But this year I feel Melo will be near MVP level, and maybe Leading Scorer(LeBron and Kobe will fall i think, Wade also little bit, only DUrant have big chances to be 30ppg scorer)
yes, Carmelo had more help. But you could also turn around and argue that his stats should have been lower since he played with so much talent as you put it. If two guys put up similar stats and one is on a crappy team and the other has a lot of talent around him, then the guy putting up numbers on the better team might look more impressive.
I think Carmelo is very underrated. People need to stop saying he is a poor defender still. He has really stepped up his defense, and actually did a pretty good job guarding Kobe for long stretched during the WCF. However, LeBron is still the better player because he does so much more out on the court and has consistentley elevated his teamates. Carmelo is getting there, but i dont think he is a top 5 player in the league and he may not even be the best small forward in the West this year. I think Durant will stake his claim as the best small forward in the west. Carmelo is very very good, but LeBron is great, and this is comin from a Kobe lover
I agree that you don't only use stats to determine the ROY. However, it was previously stated that stats were why Melo should've won and I'm simply arguing that, if anything, the stats show otherwise. Lebron didn't make the playoffs, but his supporting cast was worse. Regarding whether a poor supporting cast improves or hurts your stats, it can go either way.
all three of these guys, Lebron Kobe and Carmelo are amazing talents.. why compare them at all?
oh feeble humans.... one day we will need to stop this childish hierarchy mindset
Llperez22, you argue for the point I was trying to make. Guys on better teams may look more impressive. By Melo averaging .1 more points and .2 more boards, this really does not bode well for your argument of guys on better teams looking more impressive. Everyone was simply more impressed with LeBron as a player, period, play-offs and first round sweep aside. If Melo averaged 2, even 1 whole point more than LeBron, than people could have more of an argument, but LeBron simply was a better player. Straight up, and no argument since than to prove otherwise.
no argument otherwise? I've heard lots of fans and professional writers say Carmelo was better and thus there is an argument, otherwise we wouldn't be having htis discussion, so I don't see where you are coming from with "everyone was simply more impressed with lebron period" because that is just not true at all. And I'm not sure how I argued against my point. When 2 guys put up the same stats, then team success is usually taken into consideration as well. You pointed out how Lebron didn't have as much team successdue to lack of talent around him, so I countered that less talent around you makes for better individual stats more often then not.
The reality is any fan should take a combination of all things into consideration. Stats and team success. But you have to watch them play to really judge how good they were, and as I pointed out earlier, I had a bet with 4 other knowledgable fans that year and we all agreed that Melo should have won based on what we saw, not stats are just team success. It was close, but I as well as many others felt like Melo was better.
Just out of curriosity, whoever took my point right now, I would like for you to argue why you disagree with my post. I find it more fun that way personally.
Lebron is better no question. But the gap is closer than people think. People forget how well carmello played in the olympics and fiba games.
he has become a lock down th quarter defender, karl is gonna keep on him off the best players early to avoid foul trouble but in the crunch he is the go to defender.
he much improved his passing and shot selection this year, and made kobe look like a 6-0 pg on the boards in the wcf (am i the only who saw him continually snatching o boards for and ones and what not).
he has a very nice mix of guard and post skills, which naturally means he is going to take a little longer to develop because he is developing two different skill sets...
lebron is better, but carmello still has so much room to improve
But, I would just like to say, please look at the teams during that year. I mean, LeBron has a decent front court, but NO help at guard. Plus he had all these egos and shot takers (Buckets, Darius) and there were like 4 players who actually played over 75 games on that team. Going into that season, did anyone think Cleveland was going to be a better team than Denver? Did anyone think Cleveland was even going to contend for the play-offs, which they in fact did. LeBron James was just a pure leader, and his court vision and all-around ability just dwarfed the positive things Melo accomplished that season. It was not like the voting wasn't close, but the right guy won. LeBron was just a more impressive leader, play-offs or no play-offs. If he had a 1 like Andre Miller and some shooting guards who could stroke, his life would have been as easy as say, Carmelo Anthony. Melo went into a great situation, but if you put them on each others teams, even as rookies, I say LeBron just kills it while Melo would just be a better version of Ricky Bucks. Also, with a 4 like Boozer, take away that rebound advantage, as Nene does not hit the boards like either Z or Booz. If you want to make the argument that Carmelo should have won rookie of the year, I just think you should leave the points and boards out of it, as that is just so miniscule. However, if you want to argue LeBron vs. Melo overall, which is what the original post was, I do not see how you can say Carmelo has had a better career or is a better overall player than LeBron James. In that case, the stats really do not lie, and their is a reason that LeBron is mentioned with Kobe rather than with Melo. LeBron James deservedly won the regular season MVP. Kobe Bryant won the award the year before. Their respective teams had the best records in the league. They may not play the same game, but they are the two best players in the game right now, and with Dwyane Wade they comprise a trio of players I believe are far above other players in the rest of the league.
mikey, I think you have misread all my posts. I have specifically said that it is not even close between Lebron and Carmelo. I said Melo is not even a top 5 player. Lebron is on another level right now. I aslo never brought stats into the discussion, in fact I specificaly said stats don't prove everything after someone else brought them up. All I've said is that Carmelo should have won rookie of the year which I believe not because of stats or team succes, but because I watched both players closely throughout the season and I feel Carmelo had the better year, period. Ever since then, Lebron has clearly seperated himself.
It was obviously close seeing as how Lebron did in fact win, but I was arguing with people who were saying Lebron had better stats because of the assists or lebron was better because he had less help. If anybody just said Lebron was better just because he was, then I wouldn't have argued with them becuase I realize how close it was.
a lot of people seem to be missing the point that the nuggets play in the WC and turned around a 17 win season into a playoff season. In my opinion a rookie who leads his team into the playoffs and leads the team and all rookies in scoring should get that nod anytime. sure lebron's rookie season was impressive, but whats more impressive to me is a 19 year old rookie leading a team that won 17 games into a playoff spot