Well well well... A guy that gets alot of mention from posters on here and from guys in the NBA because of his (unexpectedly) outstanding rookie season, with numbers of 13 ppg, 9 rebs, and 2 assists. Numbers of which his twin, Robin Lopez of the Suns, could only dream of for his career! Harsh...but I believe Lopez wont get that much better than he currently is because of the stiffness of which he plays. Everything that limits him, from scoring, to defending the pick and roll, to even defending in the post against quick moves, has to do with him being mechanical and robotic. He is similar to Al Horford, in the sense that he had a great rookie season and wont show the expected improvement because of a lack of upside. I just dont think Lopez will go from being stiff to being smooth and fluid enough to be an all-star level player. Maybe it just me... Thoughts?
agree completely i have always thought that too i think hes a lot like Yao except shorter and because of that a little wiorse.
i think its just you. peopel said the exact same thing about him before he got to the nba and the same things about the player hes most compared to which is brad daurghty. just about ever rookie who is a starter improves the next year and i expect him to also. yea he is kinda stiff but he has post moves can rebound and runs the floor pretty well.. he doesnt need to jump out of the gym like some of these guys that people drool over because unlike most of them he produces instead of living on his could be potenial. some fans still dont believe which is understandable because most fans are blinded by jumping and dunking and espn highlight plays which this guys probably will never do but like david west he will quietly get better and better and the scouts for other teams as well as his team seem to think so ( not that im basing my opinion on them) im basing it on what ive seen. i guess we will see. its also not out of the question that robin will get near those numbers since he had some pretty good games. we need to start going a lil more with production instead of hope/potenial all the time
The kid is smart he went to Stanford, great pick by the Nets.
P.S. I expected this from him. 7'0" and agile.
I hate to be a dick, but you said all rookies who start improve?? What about Emeka Okafor?
The8thDeadlySin, what you fail to mention about Okafor is how much higher his FG% is now versus his rookie year. He's giving similar production in the major stats but not missing nearly as many shots.
Im going off both..I brought up production and potential in my statement. If we didnt go by potential, he would average the same 13 or 14 ppg, 9 rebs, and 2 blks. Those are solid, but not the All-star level numbers that everyone sees.
And he's not agile, Sup. Notice how every thinks he's stiff.
I think he is agile for a 7 footer. You think he's stiff. He's 7'0" with skills I will not label that as stiff.
I think he is agile for a 7 footer. You think he's stiff. He's 7'0" with skills I will not label that as stiff.
i said all?..i thought i said just about every which would mean there are some that dont?
I wasnt quoting you. If I did, there would be quotations. I dont remember exaclty what you said but you acted like its a given that he will get better. Its not.
yeah hes definatly not a still..hes not real athletic but hes not a stiff either. if we didnt go by potenial then anthony randolph numbers arent all star level either as well as a couple other rookies. brooks gonna get better im pretty sure of it and most peopel are pretty sure of it. but its all opinions at this point. just like randolph could end up not being much better then he is now as well as all the other rookies..as far as stiffss..bill wennington was a stiff..travis knight stiff darko ..to be honest how many centers are even very atletic?..kendrick perkins i know for one isnt
no its never a given. was just saying more times then not starting rookies get better in year 2 and beyond
Skilled and agile are too different things..he isn't agile. Sorry.
its a classic case of if a player isnt very atletic then they arent thought to beable to do much more then there suprise year as a rookie
Anthony Randolph doesnt have stiffness limitations like Lopez, Lopez plays straight up in the air. Randolph has every athletic advantage he needs and then some, plus he has size. Everyone knows he'll get better because he has gotten noticeably better since the end of last season.
hes agile enough and his skills make up for not being very agile..hes no less agile then kedrick yet hes also better. no less agile then mots of the centers in the nba..tyson chandler is very agile and athletic but its shown that skill is alot more important then being very agile or athletic
I think Brook Lopez is just white, not stiff
I watched every Nets game of the last season.
Lopez is legit. And how is he a "stiff". The guy is 7 feet and more agile than small forwards in the nba.
He is easily a top five center in the league right now--and he will get better.
His conversion rate and post moves were so good last season--the only reason his numbers weren't better than what they could be is that he didn't get as many opportunities as he could.
Time will prove the doubters wrong. Brook is really good.
brook has gotten better and is consistant and produces more then randolph..right now randolph is living on his potenial yet hasnt produced much unless you count summer leauge. yes he has potenial but the nba is full of guys who had potenial but never lived up to it. right now at this point brooks is more consistant and better and produces more despite the fact hes not as agile or athletic as randolph so untill randolph proves hes better then brook im sticking with brook. ive always been the type to say prove it before i join the hype train
"hes agile enough and his skills make up for not being very agile"
Huh? Is he agile or not? And Kendrick Perkins hasn't gotten much better than he was when he 1st got into the League..the Celtics just gave him a role as an enforcer and more PT and he's been more effective. All the guys that played like men amongst boys such as Horford, Lopez, Joakim Noah and Emeka Okafor haven't gotten much better and in some cases took steps back from their rookie seasons. If you dont have upside you wont get better, especially if your weaknesses are things that hold you back in alot of different areas. The case can be made for all the guys I mentioned that they have limitations that they havent gotten better at and its holding them from reaching the next level.
Anthony Randolph got 8 ppg in 17 min/game. That is very productive for that little bit of time on the court. He also averaged a block and a steal a game...he was very very productive when he got time. Everyone saw it when he got alot of PT at the end of the year when they were developing the young guys more. Randolph is the real deal and he has too much talent to underachieve...
I just don't see why you're comparing Brook Lopez to Anthony Randolph.
QH said something about Lopez being more consistebt than Randolph and more productive....
Oh but anway, Brook Lopez will have a very successfull career and he will show glimpses of greatneess. And if Brook Lopez is "stiff" David Robinson was stuck, and so his Dwight Howard. But their surrounding skills have lead them both to progress throughout their careers.
B. Lopez is somewhat stiff and mechanical, but I think his fundmentals and skill-set are what will carry him. I really like him and I think he'll get better. He has a lot of positives. He has one hell of a body... No homo lol. He's 7' 0", broad shoulders, lean/muscle, long arms, big hands and he has a mean streak. He plays well with his back to the basket or facing up... His range even goes out to the three point line. After a game versus Miami last season when D. Wade blocked him twice under the basket, he made a committment to start dunking the ball aggressively everytime he got close to the rim. He played a lot more aggressive and it impressed me. I think he'll be an All-Star eventually.
You think Dwight Howard and David Robinson were stiff?!? Come on man...I stopped reading what you said after that. Ridiculous....
Al Horford did alot of those same things, he started dunking more and stopped taking mid-range shots and his productivity and effectiveness. Emeka Okafor bulked up tremendously after his rookie year, and now looks like an 18 wheeler and he hasnt made very much improvement in his game. Kendrick Perkins dunks the ball every time he can and is also stiff and he hasnt improved much since being drafted.
Ha ha yea... He lost me there too. David Robinson was as fluid/athletic as they come. The same goes for Dwight Howard. In a lot of ways, Howard reminds me of a young Robinson.
I think Lopez has more upside than Horford, Okafur and Perkins. Horford is barely 6' 10", so he's undersized at center. I think that if they moved him to power forward, we'd see more from him. Okafur did bulk up after his rookie season, but many (including myself) felt that he bulked up too much. It made him slow and heavy. Okafur has also struggled with injuries. I too feel that this is as good as he's going to get though. Honestly... When he was drafted, this is as good as I thought he'd get. I'm not a fan of Perkins, but while watching him during the playoffs last season I realized that he's improved. He's tough, a very good defender, good rebounder and scores decently around the basket. He's perfect for their team. This is as good as he's going to get though.
Lopez is different though because of his overall package of size, length and offensive skill set. I think he'll put up really good numbers this upcoming season. I'm not expecting a sophomore slump from him. I expect him to be the second offensive option and average around 18 points, 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. He'll have a bigger role this season and actually be a focal point.
I think Brook was a steal and I think he is agile. In college, he was constantly double teamed and he made solid moves to shoot over the double team where he was hanging in the air and contorting his body. He runs well and moves to the open spot on offense off pick and rolls or when his pg penetrates. He can adjust in the air and create shots despite good defense.
You could say lots of guys like Alonzo mourning and patrick ewing are stiffs as well if you just look at how they played offense. I think he will be a 20-10 all star in this league. If the draft was done over, he would be top 5.
HE IS AGILE BUT THERE ARE PLAYERS MORE AGILE THEN HIM IGGY..Iits not black or white( either agile or not) he doesnt have great agility but he also doesnt have any either. and hes better then hortford with more potenial..hes not comparable to kendricks or noah because neither has the upside that brook has. what exactly is youre definition of a stiff. also with ranolph peopel make way too many excuses for him..he only played thoses min for a reason and it wasnt just because the coach didnt like him its because he showed glimpses but also lacked certain things when he did get on the floor. yes nelson isnt fond of rookies but if a undrafted rookie like morrow can get time when he has more comp at his position then why cant a pf who doesnt have alot of good players in fron of him..yes randolph has potenial but he hasnt shown he belongs out there as a starter yet. the so called stiff lopez has. more people think hes gonna be a all star then people that dont but liek i said all these are opinions even though they are based of of production from last year
I think that before Shaq, Lopez was the second best C in the league. Now that Shaq is around, he is 3rd. Lopez is great, very smooth, and will learn to use is body. Like someone said earlier, he is very smart. That means he will always be learning the game. Constant imporvement throughout his career.
i agree..and now without vince he will get alot more touches..i will be very very suprised if he doesnt average at least 17 and 10 this season
i think brook lopez's potential has EVERYTHING to do with the nets signing a bigname free agent next year... if given the opprotunity i think lopez could put up numbers like 17pts 11 boards and around 2 blocks... but if the nets add another talented big man i dont expect this....
but he could easily turn out to be an all star caliber player
those of u who talk about emeka okafor basically having the same stats all his career should also look at the career of some other players like chris bosh... who didnt have a standout rookie season but made himself into a 20/10 player with little change in playing time...
not saying he'll be as good as bosh but he easily could be... i think hes one of the best players in his draft class..
if the '98 draft was done over, I think Brook would go 3rd or 4th overall. I think Rose and Mayo would both go ahead of him. Westbrook is debateable. I would put brook ahead of beasley, Love, Randolph, Gordon and the rest.
Okafor doesn't have much of an offensive game. Lopez will be fine he started off slow and took off from Jan. on and not like the Nets have many options on offense anyway. Look how Haywood, Bogut, Perkins, Bargnani, Kaman have improved since their rookie seasons. He probably won't ever be a David Robinson but he'll be a better than average Center and get better too.
I don't think anybody has mentioned this: Lopez is extremely long and has a huge frame for adding muscle. The guy isn't just a 7-footer. He is a MAN-sized 7-footer for his age.
Spencer Hawes is a 7-footer too, with some nice skills. But he doesn't have nearly the length or shoulders that Lopez has. Hawes is a "smaller"7-footer.
My point is, even IF Brook is a little bit of a stiff, he is nearly Shaq-like in length, and will have a beast of a body in a few years. This guy should be really good.
My definition of stiff is not being able to make a move quickly and playing high in the air (high center of gravity). How can you be stiff and agile at the same time? They are the exact opposite. Thats like saying someone is good and bad at the same time. Like....goodbad. lol. He runs the floor good and he does have good size, but do all the guys I mentioned above. Most centers in the NBA have good size and a majority run the floor well..does that mean that all of them will be all-stars?
And just because Anthony Randolph didnt get immediate PT like Lopez doesnt mean he is or will be a better player. Alot of guys have immediate success and end up being worse than guys who are projects..think Vlade Divac and Kobe Bryant. It wouldnt be a stretch to say that if Randolph got time like Lopez his stats wouldve been more impressive...And who on Golden State's wings can shoot as efficiently as Morrow? Nobody, that's why he got more PT and only a slightly. Randolph was more productive than him in fewer minutes.
And all those players you, 8thdeadlysin, and I mentioned where relevant because they were similarly productive rookie and their production leveled off. Sorry if you dont want to have examples in arguments to set up points, but I will continue to use them all long as they stand for something in the argument. And since I think Lopez' production will level off, I used other players with similar career paths to contribute to my points. So that's why they were used.
did i say he was a stiff?..if i did then i didnt mean too but im sure i said hes not a still and that he is agile. and yes im saying hes better then randolph right now which isnt an opinion its a fact. untill randolph proves during the season and not the summer leauge that hes better then im not gonna say hes better so untill then all you can say about randodolp is if he gets this time or if he does this and potenial thats all he has going for him right now at this point and the dumb saying of " if given this much time he can" . youre opinion is that brooks lopez stats will level off but thats not a fact just like our opinion is his stats wont level off and actually there hasnt been any indication that his stats will level off next year actually
And if he doesnt come back next season as some agile big man their is a good chance his production will level, seeing that that's what holds his game back anyway.
Saying Randolph isnt better than Lopez is as much of an opinion as saying Brook Lopez stats wont level off. As you just said.
It's not that dumb to say if he was given time he couldve done this or that. It's a way of showing that (minus team effectiveness or ineffectiveness) he could've put up stats like this. That's why they have minute adjusted stats (per 48 minutes for the NBA, per 40 minutes in college)
And yes, you did say he was a stuff: "yea he is kinda stiff"...the 1st post you made.
not a total stiff and if he can level off then randloph can do the same and its a fact that hes better right now because he producted more. thats how you can guage a player right now by how they produce..you can argue up and down about how one player is better then another but if one player produces more then the other reguardless of the circumstances then it is what it is. does it mean he will be better in the future not nessasariy but as of right now he is better brook isnt sitting home doing nothing just liek the rest of the rookies arent hes working on his weaknesses and strengthing his strengths. im willing to put any amount of money that he will come back better then he was last year
I dont think he's a total stiff either...a total stiff is a guy like Randolph Morris, who probably couldnt run a suicide without falling down. But I do think he's stiff to the point where it limits him a pretty good deal from what he could be if he was a bit more agile..
And Lopez probably is working hard, everybody in the NBA for the absolute most part does. That doesnt mean he'll get better to being an All-Star player. Unless he is working super duper hard (like ridiculously hard) and is more fluid than ever.
And we all know Randolph has gotten better, we saw it this summer. He had a nice summer in 08, but he is much better than he was back then as well. He hasnt done anything but get better in bunches, since high school. He wasnt even a McDonalds All-American, and ended up being an All-SEC player as a freshman, and he went from 8 ppg last year in 17 mpg to being a safe bet to nearly double that average (at least) this year. He wont average 7 ppg his whole career. His weakness that was holding him back was his lack of strength (a much easier weakness to improve than a limited supply of agility) and he showed up at SL weighing in at 235 lb. He's still considered weak, and I agree that he probably is, but he will get stronger and bigger to the point of it not being a liabilty. I can guarantee that, since he showed he will get stronger and bigger already.
lopez doesnt have tobe super duper better to be a all star and randolph didnt impress me anymore this summer then he did last summer i think they actually lot more games and his stats were pretty much the same on top of a rookie beating him for mvp of the summer. lopez is just as much a safe bet to be better then last year. even if you dont think so its pretty much a concensus that brook will be better and is a future all star ala brad daurgthy with the difference being brook doesnt have to face the other centers that brad had to face. you dont have to agree wit it but it is what it is. randolph has the potenial to be one as well
He would have to be more agile though. And you are a hard man to impress if you dont think Randolph was noticeably more impressive this SL than in 08. Especially considering he improve his only real weakness.
he is stiff. his brother was the much more athletic player and hes not that athletic.
David Robinson and Dwight Howard are both brolic and stiff, that's why they can't shoot with any range. Athletic, but stiff like bodybuilders but anyway we clearly have different definitions. To me a stiff player is one that lacks certain ranges of movement on offense. Dikembe stiff, David Robinson Stiff, Dwight Howard stiff...Tim Duncan not, Brook Lopez not...Kobe not stiff, Ron Artest is stiff you know, lolz.
P.S. Lebron stiff Carmelo not stiff, Chauney Billups stiff Devin Harris not, you see lolz
i have always seen brook lopez being like a tim duncan kind of player. tim duncan is not the most fluent in his movements but he is strong with long arms and is fundamentally sound. Im not sayin brook lopez is the next tim duncan but he has potential to be an annual all star.
Brook Lopez, New Jersey Nets – As the obvious runner-up for Rookie of the Year last season, Lopez had several games during his first year that made him look like a future All-Star. The issue was getting that production every night. His sophomore season should bring more of the same success, and he's already off to a great start in the preseason. Averaging 17.2 points and 7 rebounds per game in the first five preseason contests, he has yet to score in single-digits. Also, playing for what could be a pretty dismal Nets team, Lopez will get more than enough opportunities to shine......
have you watched him yet iggy?..ive watched all but one of his games and even though its preseason he looks alot better( saying something since he had a very good rookie year)
I'm going to watch them soon, I definitely wanna see New Jersey play before the season and I haven't yet.