Succesor to the "Glove"
Gary Payton, better known as the "Glove". As successfu as he was offensively, there is no doubt people would remeber him more for his notorious D. As his title suggests, he would frustratingly harass and lock down his man, literally wearing them like a glove. Following the conclusion of his illustrious career, no PG's around have yet to suggest they can match Payton's defensive ability, enough to inherit his title. While we have witnessed several PG's capable of playing decent and agressive D (CP3, Rondo, Chalmers), none of them i believe have proven themselves worthy of claiming of Payton's intimidating title. Enter Ricky Rubio. As much as people boast about his ridiculous instincts in efficiently running a team, and his insane passing skills, it's his stifling D that clearly separates him from most PG's nowadays. While most developing PG's would concentrate more on heightening their offensive game, Rubio dedicates himself to better his D, and harnessing his utmost defensive ability (100%) in all games (unlike a LOT of PG's these days). Though we may not see him for a further 2 years, Rubio i believe, will establish himself in the league not for his offensive genius, but for his hostile D. Along the way, he will successfully convince people that he is more than worthy of becoming the successor to Payton's title, and be regarded as the "Glove".
I think if Jose Calderon was a lock down defender he would probably be on of the best in the league no doubt. his offensive skills are on another level but his defense is extremely lacking
sean livingston was going to a lock defender b4 the leg promblems he had all the size and speed to mess with the normal sized points he even big enuff to guard 2 and 3 spots a shot blocking point that was wat he going 2 be great 2 bad he sucks now
but he can still can be a very good point down the road just not wat he should of been
wait, so far there are 3 comments that compare Rubio, Calderon, and Shaun Livingston to the Glove. Have any of you guys actually watched GP play? He was the defensive player of the year. The very best defnsive pg in the league. He locked guys up. Are you people serious.
I know it's early but to me- the guys who can fit that GP mold is Jrue Holiday
LL, I agree. They were scaring me a little...the closest PG's that I can think of with even close defensive ability to Payton (not comparing them to GP though) is Russell Westbrook and Rondo. They are the 1 & 2 best defenders for he future I think. They have the tools, aggressiveness and both have a ton of potential
Q-Haynes is right Holiday matches it, but like he explained it's too early to tell until about 3-4 seasons in.
Good job- Iguodala
Come on man....Jrue Holiday is not the defender Payton is and he doesnt have the quickness or strength to show that ability. Jrue Holiday= Eric Snow...with less passing ability.
I'm gonna save this post.
So when he starts doing well, I dont wanna hear noone say I did not tell you he was good. I have to laugh when you call him a "Eric Snow" type player.
Alrighty...do whatever you want. Save it, copy and paste it, put a sticky note on your refrigerator. Jrue Holiday is not an NBA player at all right now. He has no skill thats at an NBA level, except D, and thats not even special.
the glove will be Westbrook Rubio is good but he doesn't have the athleticism i think Westbrook does. Chalmers, and Rondo, could be up there too.
and for the Snow comparison im not sure he will be hat good. Snows a great defender and extremely underrated. there's a reason why Iverson hasn't been able to win since he left Philly and its because he hasn't had a good tall defensive stopper next to him like Snow.
Chalmers could very well be up there. On Holiday it will take 3-4 seasons to see if he has the ability.
Jrue Holiday is not an NBA player at all right now
Yea, he's a rookie. 18 years old. I mean, some guys needed time to develop. I see a player who will be getting some PT and will have many chances to prove himself this season. As someone who saw him play, I think he will be a better PG then SG. He had to play off the ball in a system where you don't score alot....
Russell Westbrook- 12ppg, 4apg at UCLA
So even Westbrook had low numbers as a Soph and he got drafted 4th overall! So I guess we knew he was gonna be a stud PG in the NBA after playing 10 career games at PG at UCLA?
I'm still in shock from hearing Rubio's name mentioned in the same sentence as Payton's, defensively wise.
Westbrook put up much better numbers and had an elite characteristic as a prospect. And just like you said, he was a sophomore. He didnt come out when he wasnt ready, and Im tired of tha being 18 excuse. If yournot ready then your not ready. When Im 18 Im not going to declare for the draft all willie nillie because it seems like I can ge better...especially when I was clearly an average player anyway.
what do you mean he put up much better numbers?
Westbrook-12ppg, 4apg in 2008
Holiday- 8ppg, 3apg in 2009
Whoa! Huge Difference! 4 points! 2 baskets!
Averaging 8 points and 12 points is a nice sized difference...look at how many total points they had and compare the 2. I guarantee you Westbrook had at least 90-120 more total points in his sophomore year than Holiday in his freshman year. And fo an example, if a rookie averaged 4 ppg and another rookie averaged 8 ppg, you would consider that a nice sized difference right?
I'm a jru supporter. It might take a year or two, but he has all the tools. Philly fans will like this pick down the road. I don't care if Holiday hasn't played much point, having seen him play it is very obvious that he will benefit from playing point. His game actually doesn't translate well to sg at all. He is a pass first player who always has his head up and reads the court. Even in summer league he got into the paint at will and had no problems breaking the press. He just has to work on his scoring. He struggles finishing in traffic and doesn't shoot consistently enough from the perimiter.
Philly has taken a liking towards guys with good defense, athleticism, size and upside and it has paid off. Iguodala, Speights, Thadeus were guys who fit this mold. Had Holiday gone back to college, he cold have been a 15-5-5 player and people wouldn't be dissing him.
westbrook as a fresh was like 3 points a game.
Had Holiday gone back to college, he cold have been a 15-5-5 player and people wouldn't be dissing him
He's so good, people were talking a top 5 pick and UCLA as a Final 4 team if he went back last year
How would we know? Lee and Anderson all have more physical tools than Holiday. I think he was scared he wouldnt have been the man without earning it. I think Malcolm Lee and Anderson wouldve took time from Holiday.
And everyone that follows basketball closely knows Westbrook is a very late bloomer and he averaged 3 ppg as a freshman and he couldnt dunk until his senior year of HS yada yadda yadda. But did he declare for the draft because he had potential and no production? No..doesnt make sense..
Holiday did have production. 8ppg-3rpg-3apg.
Now your saying Lee and Anderson would have taken time off of Holiday is LOL. To be 100% Honest:
If Derrick Rose never whipped up Darren Collison causing Collison to stay for his senior season, he would not have this discussion because he prob would have went higher.
Plus, someone was talking about a health scare- thats why he dropped.
reality is Holiday is a gamble pick based on potential more then production. He never took over games his freshmen year. There is a chance had he gone back his stock might have gone either way up or down. But he is a very good ball handler and passer. His defense is his strong point. He get's up well around the basket and has the ability to finish over bigs. The tools are all there. As a gm, you have to look at potential just as much as accomplishments.
We won't be able to settle this argument for a few years, but I think he will show flashes as a rookie and Philly will start to look smart.
I agree. I'm not saying he's gonna be GP off the bat but from what I saw, he can be a really good player in the NBA.
I just dont like the fact that he did not play a NBA game yet and a fan of the team he's on is already hating the guy.
I mean- if he averages 10ppg-10apg you would say "yea, he's the man!"
Mario Chalmbers has the quickest pick pocketing hands I have seen since the glove and mookie blaylock. He will lead the league in steals for multiple years. He also has more athleticism than people give him credit for. Although he will never score 24 a game like Gary Payton, I think he could average 18 points and 3 steals for a season later in his career.
I can pretty much guarantee you Holiday will never average 10 points and 10 assists.
And I dont think 8 3 and 3 is the production legends are made of lol. The 19th pick of a draft shouldnt have production that low. Sorry
And yes it is a GM's duty to draft for potential as much as production. But dont you think Jeff Teague has more potential than Holiday and way more production? There were plenty of players with more potential and upside than him, even players with much rawer games (Derozan, Jordan Hill and even Beaubois prime examples) had more production. Maybe he just isnt that good! Maybe his upside isnt that high, he just isnt that good!
Will never be GP defensively...Simple as that. Maybe he will get close. But GP was the man.
Lolz, that would be pretty funny if after all this talk about his passing, Rubio came here to be the next Gary Payton. Only problem is Rubio is a shy kid Gary Payton is tough, big difference.
Terrence Williams is taller but he has been training with the glove so he may show some strong resemblence to the glove on defense.
Terrence Williams has the same tenacity and smack talking that Payton does. I can see T-Will being an elite defender in that mold. Williams is one of my favorite players anyway, he is another Iguodala
People think Jrue Holiday is not an NBA player because he was decent in college and he sucked in the summer league.
Some people give themselves points on every post...its a dog-eat-dog world...
I can honestly say I don't give myself points. It's actually counter productive to give yourself points becuase then people see that and are less likely to give you any.
igudala 9.....we read your email on our show!!!
LL: I was talking about the Sup guy trying to subliminally talk about me lol
Q:Ayyyyeeee...what was the reaction?
like it! man, it brought up a good convo!
Thanks for the E-mail!
I wish I could hear it...Im in the car on here thru my phone. I'll try and listen when I get phone.
Rondo and Westbrook are the only guys defensively good enough to be compared.
WHAT THE HECK. I don't ever want to hear Rubio, playing a bunch of second-class Euprean bums (basketball players) in the same sentence with Gary Payton. I will say that Chris Paul is the best defensive point guard in the NBA, but he doesn't tower over defenders like the 6 foot 4 Payton did. Anyway, I really can't imagine Rubio stopping anyone had he been playing in the NBA this season.
Dhamp...the greatest basketball mind in the world. Next to Hubie Brown anyway.
Rubio is a poor defender.Didnt get why he was even brought up by whoever it was...and Rondo is the best defensive PG in the NBA in my opinion. He forces his matchups into either poor percentages and/or games. A poor percentage game can be great even if he gives up alot of points, because it can take a team out of games if the PG is getting points inefficiently. Rondo does that alot, and he doesnt gamble as much as he probably could with his physical gifts..
I stopped reading this once I read that Rubio is the "next" Glove...ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
i don't know much about his game, but on topics posted about a month ago, some people compared john wall to gary payton. maybe based on his offensive game, but how is wall's overall defense?
i think Chalmers will be a lot like Paul on defense he will get maybe 3 steals a game but he still will get overpowered by big point guards like Billups. its easily Westbrook he has the size, athleticism, and tenacity.