I just saw a post about Chris Bosh and it made me think about who the "max" players are. That is, who deserves a contract at the maximum salary a team can offer? Some obvious ones would be Kobe, LBJ and DWade, but what about a guy like Pau? he's not even the best player on his team, but does he deserve a max deal?
IMO, there aren't a lot of guys that truly deserve the "max" deal and I think that too many people got it when the economy was all happy, but now that we're in a recession, I think they are going to come about less frequently. Al Jefferson didn't take the max deal when he signed his second contract with the Wolves and I think that's a trend that will continue.
So who do you think is a max guy? and do you think it's smart for any team to carry two max players? does it cripple the rest of your roster?
Guys like Allan Houston, Shawn Marion, and Rashard lewis getting 20 mill per is what hurts teams. I'm a firm believer in that overpaying players hurts teams far more then being frugal. Bad contracts is what makes it hard to sign new talent, make trades, and build a contender. I think we will see guys signing for more like 14-16 million per year very soon. Of course Lebron and Wade will get the max. But guys like Carmelo, Bosh, and Amare are probably gonna be a little dissapointed unless someone over pays them.
Do you think Brandon Roy deserved a max deal?
yes, he is special. I think he is a top 10 or 15 player in this league, and guys like him probably deserve it. But you also have to keep in mind that the "max" the first time you become a free agent is quite a bit less then a max deal the second time you hit free agency. Guys like Lebron and Wade and Bosh who are going into their third contract will have a higher "max" then a guy like Roy who is going into his second contract.
I think he no doubt deserved a max deal... the hard part about doling out the contracts is that you have to be able to see the player's performance down the line BEFORE it happens. The other problem has been that if you don't give your own players the max deal, someone else will, which gives the players all the leverage.
in the nba, a team's ability to sign their own players even if over the salary cap is a teams main weapon in putting together a roster... that means that DRAFTING the star is the most important part of assembling a roster... signing free agents means you have to have the salary cap room to do it, and that's hard to do.
Melo is better then Roy, thus being a max player.
I think it is very close, but I would take Roy over Melo. Roy does more to create for his teammates and gets into the lane. Melo is a great scorer, but when he is off, he doesn't do the some of the other things that superstars do to effect the game.
But like I was alluding to earlier, Melo and Roy getting max deals on their second contract is a no brainer. But I would have to think long about giving them max deals on their third contract.
I think a lot of it depends on who you already have on your team, as far as the 3rd contract goes... If you have a bunch of young guys on your team already who you think are sufficient to surround your "max" player and win a championship, than go ahead and give the "max" deal, but if you don't have those pieces already, don't give the max deal, because you'll hand cuffed to the guys you already have on the team
They scored at almost the same rate (22.6 to 22.8 ppg), Melo rebounds better (5 boards to Melo's 6), Roy passes better and more efficently (5 assts/2 to's, Carmelo: 3 assts/3 to's). Roy also shoots more efficiently (48 fg%, 38% pt to Melo's 44 fg% and 37% 3 pt). Roy's the better defender, on and off the ball and they registered the same amount of steals and blocks. Roy's also much better in the clutch. Looks like they are either on the same level or Roy's the better player since he was better statistically in more categories.
i agree with you iguodala. If i was starting a franchise, I would take Roy over Melo.
I dunno tough
Melo from day 1 lead the Nuggets to the playoffs...
Roy eh...had alot of help
I dunno, I think it's closer then u think
Here we go comparing those apples and oranges again lol.
But it is the truth.....
I don't think Melo is half the leader that BRoy is
Roy's also much better in the clutch?
It's very close, I think it's neck and neck. That's why I said "Looks like they are either on the same level or Roy's the better player since he was better statistically in more categories." But I would pick Roy if I was starting a team.
One thing I will say about nbadraft.net is it's a lot of discussion about which player is better than another player, which is basically the lowest level discussion you can have about basketball players... (that and, this guy is just like this guy) that's what it always boils down to, inevitably.
players are different and they all bring different things to the table.
Brandon Roy always comes through in the clutch, and Melo doesnt all the time. I cant find a stat for game-winners because its not official. But you would rather have Brandon Roy with the ball in the closing seconds down by 1 or 2 than Carmelo right?
They're different players and have different responsibilities, but if I had to choose... It's close, but I'd choose Roy. I think Roy has more leadership ability. They're both pretty clutch (Melo hit at least two game winners that I saw last season vs OKC and Dallas), but I think Roy has the edge here also. Roy probably hit arguably the best game winner of the regular season last season vs Houston. Roy usually takes over in the 4th quarter.
and if im not mistaken it was Roy's 2nd game winner of that game, because yao answered his first game winner with an and-1 (with the foul being on roy)... i felt bad for the guy and then he throws up a turn around and SWOOSH
Hey Tezo what was that word after "Roy probably hit arguably the best game winner of the ? last season vs Hou.
He doesn't have a killer instinct like Melo
People always underrated Melo.
I would take Melo over Roy...but it's so close I think either pick wont be bad
SDE didn't underrate melo ;)
I don't think Melo was ever underrated until this year... this year he really picked up the intensity on D and people didn't give him the recognition for it.
Melo is a great player no doubt. I disagree with people who are already putting Durant as the best sf over him. But it's not like saying he is a close second to roy is a slap in the face. Melo goes to work and gets buckets. But roy is a guy that I would rather build a team around because he just has more tools. He makes the whole team better.
Yea its funny because Melo was considered overrated wayyy more often then underrated before. And he did defend better last year without much recognition, especially in the playoffs (he even matched up with Kobe in the Lakers series in the 4th quarter in all the games).
It's not a slap in the face.
Melo to me this year, showed he is making his game more effort on D and still provides the scoring. Like I said before, he lead the Nuggets from day 1 to the playoffs every year
Did he? I think Andre Miller had a lot to do with getting them to the playoffs the first couple years.
Andre Miller is who's underrated. All he does is lead teams to the playoffs.
Obviously a game winner during the playoffs would mean more than one during the regular season, but that wasn't what the conversation was about. Quit knit picking.
Take Melo off those teams....they would have not made the playoffs
take miller off that team or take camby off that team and they don't make the playoffs. that doesn't prove anything
Melo was the #1 option on that team. Take Aldridge, Outlaw off that Blazer team that made the playoff 1 season....they wouldn't have made the playoffs
Im done arguing about it....
Take Miller off and they wouldnt have either.
man, on a side note, I think Dick Bavetta might have cost the Jazz a shot at the title in '98. I'm watching game 6 right now, the one where jordan hit the jumper over russell to win it. Anyways, howard eisley nailed a 3 that bavetta called off due to a shot clock violation. It was total bs. The ball was probably like 15 feet out of Howards hands before it switched from 1 second to 0 seconds. Even the announcers were wondering what bavetta was calling. It wasn't even close.
just thought i'd add that.
well Q, what you're trying to argue is that Melo, a rookie, led a team that had two veteran leaders on it as well... which is a much less convincing argument than roy led a team of other young players...
Andre Miller who left 2 previous teams? He was a decent player...never a all-star and a little overrated IMO. Although, I think he adds a great vet spit at PG....a tad overrated
Marcus Camby who was injury proned most of his career?
Those 2 vet leaders....and you know what? Melo came in and averaged 21ppg, 6rpg. Uh....say what you want, I would take Melo.
I dont think taking Roy is a bad choice, I rather have Melo
you define lead as having the best stats, i'm talking about actually being a leader on the team...
What about Andre Miller and Camby...those guys are leaders. Overrated leaders
To me, that's one of the most overrated thing in sports
lol, that's because you're obsessed with stats...
whatever you think to help your arguement.....
like I said. Miller is a tad overrated and Camby has been injury prone in his career and Melo came in and gave the team hope from off the bat. I liked him since....doesn't matter because like I said " Either pick is a good pick"
Leading is the most overrated thing in sports? WOW....that was possibly the dumbest thing anyone has said on this site. If there was no leadership, there would be no sports sir.
one of the most overrated things...get it right
you'll get it when you're older.... did i just give away who i am?
Melo at one season was better in the clutch than Kobe. He bring more to the table than you realize. His game at forward is not about setting his teammates up. He finishing well and has at least started playing D. I would take Melo because the issue with b Roy was health concerns also they are not that far apart in age because Melo came out early
I don't think leading/leadership is overrated at all. Look at what the leadership of Billups meant to the Nuggets. They were a completely different team with him at the point.
yea, the guy makes people around him better, evidence being that the nuggets became a good team once he got there, and same for the 76ers.... he's a leader... you need those to win games.
Still remarkably dumb....its the most important thing in sports. Name any championship team without a great leader. I challenge you..haha
I understand Leadership is important but to me, sometimes people take Leadership and to me make it like a talent.....uh...NO.
Sorry, I like my talent. (Not saying Melo is way better then Roy)
Also, dude your always saying i understand when im older because you know I'm making more sense.
Miller is a tad overrated. Even in his prime, he never did well with a whole bunch of good talents.