There are no point guard that New York is looking at with their cap and they had their point guard spot wide open. Sessions would have played in a style that would have made him look like Steve Nash. He would have wound up getting big money in his next paycheck. Minnesota is not offering that much more than New York and they are a franchise in dissarray playing in a Western Conference that has a top 8 that will be hard to break into for years especially if you have Gm's drafting the same position over and over and not putting together a team that can compete night in and night out in the West. The Knicks play in the East and their recent moves suggest they should be playoff bound soon plus, people love to come to New York. Minnesota has issues with free agents and are less likely to pay over the luxary tax. New York would have definitely gone over to keep him after he put together some great year and would have more than likely overpaid him like they have done others in the past.
I agree with you at all points. Ramon Sessions in a Mike D'Antoni system. He would flourish and Minnesota is going to make an impact anytime soon at all. In the western conference they are going to have to go through San Antonio, New Orleans, Los Angeles Lakers, Denver Nuggets etc. and it is going to be tough on them. He should have went to New York.
I agree, he would have excelled under Mike D'Antoni
Plus it would have been a better overall situation, with Duhon being and expiring, and Douglas being a rookie, Sessions would have been "the man" in New York and earned more money in the end
i agree Minnasota is a horrible fit. the question is whos their poiny guard of the future? Rubio, Flynn, or Sessions?
If New York was such a good fit then why didn't they sign Sessions already..Minnesota has Flynn who is a rookie and needs time to develop his game. Sessions can start from day one and push Flynn...
new york will regret not going after sessions =/
who said NY didnt go after Sessions?
They offered him deals, but deals that he wasnt satisfied with and/or he felt that Milwaukee would match
dont think you can blame Sessions for the knicks not pursuing him enough...if he could have been gotten for 4yrs 16 mill than its the knicks fault for not doin so....look at the pgs for next year, there are none how are u gonna lure lebron with no one manning the system
The Knicks were the perfect team for him. The way they play wouldve allow him to put up great numbers and limited him from a half court game that kind of limits him somewhat. I think Minnesota is going to run and gun too, and the Knicks felt that Sessions wouldve prevented them from having alot money for 2010 and possibly 2011. And their decision to retain Lee was a signal that they were done in free agency. So ultimately the market softened for him after Telfair was traded to the LA Clippers. It was the Bucks and who ever wanted him anymore. And the Wolves the only ones that did.
he shudda signed a one year deal with anyone. but knicks and sessiions wud be good match. then next summer he should have tested free agency and signed with a team looking for a solid pg to put them over the hump. like a team that sign 2 superstar in example as lebron and bosh.he cud have been a great number 3or4 option on.
so... everyone is blaming sessions even though the knicks didnt man up and offer a suitable contract?
I agree i love the knicks but they dropped the ball on this one, im tired of hearing donnie talk about this 2010 nonsense when the team doesnt have a starting point guard. How do you pass on a franchise pg who has the potential to be an all star in your system one day because he costs $4 Million? Duhon is making 6 and he is nothing but a career back up. Donnie threw 6 million at an old kidd but couldnt give up 4 million to a young up an coming point guard. Its absolutely absurd how stubborn and walsh is. I know he is tryin to get 2 stars in 2010, but you really think these stars will want to play on a team with duhon as a starting PG??? there are no good free agent pg available in 2010 and the knicks dont have any valuable trade chips they can afford to give up for a decent point guard, so basically this was their only guy. I AM SO MAD WITH DONNIE!!!!
I bet nobody in this forum can think of anything the knicks can do to get a starting caliber point guard within the next year now
First off, it would not make sense for Sessions to sign a one year deal. That would just put him back in the same position he is in this year. The cap is going to be even lower and the teams with money are probably going to be signing guys to max contracts or close meaning not much money will be left for guys like Sessions.
Second, D'Antoni's system would make a lot of guys look good. Sessions will never look like Nash though. He doesn't have the passing ability or the range that Nash has. Not even close. Those are two things that D'Antoni's system won't be able to give to Sessions.
Last, why go to NY? NY is in a bad spot right now. They are lowballing Lee and Robinson right now and seem to have a hard time committing to anyone that wants a longterm deal. NY is an amazing city and D'Antoni is an offensive players dream, but I have a feeling that if NY offered him the same deal as Minnesota that he would have taken it. Even IF they snag Lebron, are they going to have anybody for him to play with? If they don't get him, that franchise MIGHT get set back quite a bit, especially if they only end up with enough money to go after one max player.
they need to trade one or two of their point guards. Because all of them have the potential to start for a really good team and all of them want a good amount of playing time.
they can sign Jamaal Tinsley, i thought of something.
If the knicks sign jamaal tinsley i will personally stand outside MSG with a fire walsh sign. All he has done for the knicks is try to bring back his old pacers team together (harrington, tinsley). Tinsley got ran out of Indiana for the same reason marbury was ran out of NY, except tinsley is a poor mans marbury.... wheres the logic?
Tinsley is a better passer than Marbury and is more of a pass first guy, and i dont think that his problems in Indiania will transfer to New York, because he was never one of the main problem guys and a change in location can help alot, look at Ron Artest.
Whoa... Tinsley had some issues with the Pacers, but he's no Marbury lol. Tinsley is also an unselfish pass first point guard. Believe it or not, other than the rust he has from not playing all of last season, he'd be a good backup point guard for the Knicks.
Walsh is a man with a REAL plan. I have major respect for him. Just be patient and soon, he'll have the Knicks back in the playoffs.
So you agree with walsh when.....
1) He refused to trade Nate Robinson at the trade deadline with Jared Jeffries, and now he is willing to let robinson walk or piss him off just enough so he doesnt come back after a one year contract.
2) Didn't give up Wilson Chandler and Larry Hughes for the pick that turned out to be Ricky Rubio. I really like wilson but he is just a very poor mans lebron, so if walsh is so confident in 2010 do you really think lebron and wilson can be effective on the floor together?
3) Offered Kidd MLE for 3 years, and Hill like 4 Million meanwhile failing to offer a good up and coming point guard who is built for your teams system the same 4 million.
4) Doesn't want to ruin 2010 cap space, but refuses to offer Iverson, probably the only player he can get that can get them into the playoffs now, a 1 year deal.
5) Selected a power forward in this years draft, meanwhile that is the knicks only position where they are in good shape (Lee, Harrington) Not to mention that he picked up a 3/4 in Gallo last draft.
I want to believe in walsh but please explain to me what he has done so far other than sell this 2010 pipe dream. Lebron will not fit in with the way this team is built even if he wanted to come, our best young players that are considered the future of this organization all play the 3. What if Lebron and Wade stay (I think they will). Where does he go from there? He overpays Bosh to be the leader of this team while he couldnt lead toronto to more than 33 wins. Meanwhile he could have build a good young team starting with signing this sessions kid, which btw still would have allowed them to sign one max free agent, to sign two they have to trade curry AND jeffries and that will most likely not happen.
And people tend to forget that marbury averaged 8 assists per game for his career so i wouldnt really call him selfish. And if fighting in the stands and being part of shootouts in clubs does not put him on marbury status idn what does. Marbury never did anything awful hes just a strange man that doesnt get along with a lot of people. However on talent level alone i would not put tinsley in the same sentence as marbury. Knicks also do not need a back up point guard, they have one of the top back up point guards in the league...unfortunately they use him as a starter.
Im disappointed the knicks didnt get him, but its not like he is a sure thing. Sessions only made 6 3's last season. He's always struggled with his outside shooting ability. Sad to say, but Duhon is a much better shooter. People forget that Duhon played pretty damn good the first half of the year, and struggled the second half due to fatigue. That shouldnt be a problem for him this year with Toney Douglas in the mix now.
Duhon is not a better shooter sessions shot 45% from the floor last year (duhon 42%, by far the best of his career btw), however he knows he doesnt have much of a 3 point shot so he didn't take any unless he had to. At his age fixing a 3 point shot is not that big of a deal. He has a much better mid range game than duhon, hes faster, gets to the line, better passer. He is also 4 years younger meaning he hasn't reached his potential, while duhon definitely has. Plus im sorry to say but fatigue wasn't the main reason for duhons breakdown, a big part of it was teams figured out he is more of a one trick pony and started to defend his pick and rolls with david lee better, however duhon had no other moves and still forced those pick and rolls when they werent there resulting in many turnovers. I like duhon....coming off the bench for 20 minutes a game. He played 36.8 minutes a game last year, which is almost exactly where a starting PG should be (35 ideal), so i don't like the fatigue excuse.
You're an unappreciative fan. You question a man who has a proven track record of success... Like YOU could do better. Donnie Walsh is no fool and knows what it takes to build a championship caliber team. He has a plan right now and isn't willing to jeopardize it.
There has been new hope in New York since Walsh took the job with the Knicks. He's had to clean up somebody else's mess. If not for him, the Knicks wouldn't even be in the running to land a superstar free-agent the summer of 2010. Acknowledge and be appreciative of the job he's done. Think about where the Knicks were a couple of seasons ago.
You're also wrong about Marbury. He's one of the most selfish players in the NBA. The tale of an unselfish player is told by more than the amount of assists he averages. Make no mistake... Marbury has been a selfish "me first" player for his whole career.
How am i an unappreciative fan when im a huge fan of a team who hasnt won more than 40 games this decade. Trust me i support donnie and i am rooting for him to do well however as a fan of a team that has been so dysfunctional for so many years i have a right to voice my opinion when i think things arent being done the right way. I hope donnie knows how to build a championship caliber team since he won a grand total of 0 championships. I support donnie 100% however he offered KIDD THE FULL MLE, and a promising young PG that can grow with a rebuilding team comes along and he refuses to offer him 4 mill. I like clearing for 2010, but i do not appreciate throwing in the towel until then, whats stopping him from signing iverson then? Is iverson really more of a headcase than tinsley? I want some effort to win now he just seems like hes too laid back.
And marbury had character issues but a ME FIRST pg cannot average 8 assists per game for his career, he CLEARLY finds his teammates open for points more often than most other pg in the league. He may be a greedy individual with a lot of issues, but last time i checked, the guy that gets the ball to his teammates that result in points more than most in the league, usually shows that that certain player also passes the ball well, otherwise he would not have that many assists every game.
First, let's clear this up... Sessions is not a franchise caliber point guard. He's a good point guard, but stop making it like he was going to save New York. He would've been a good fit in D'Antoni's system, not a perfect one.
You're very critical of a man you're claiming to support 100%. Let's just face it... Walsh inherited a mess. Bad contracts, selfish players and bad chemistry. The Knicks aren't a good team. They're not going to be a playoff team this season regardless of who they would've signed this summer. The mess Walsh inherited prevents him from putting a playoff caliber team on the floor right now. It's going to take some time. Patience is a virtue. Walsh understands that and has a plan.
You have no clue if you think the amount of assists a player averages determines whether or not he's a selfish player. I played with a guy in high school who averaged 10 assists per game, but guess what? The dude would never make the right pass. The only passes he made were ones where he'd get the assist because he wanted to pad his stats. He was talented, but also a terrible teammate with little leadership ability.
My point is sessions can easily average about 16 and 8 in this system...agreed? A good competitive team needs a solid point guard...There are no good young point guards out there in free agency next year and knicks don't have assets to trade for one... 4 million is very cheap for a solid starting point guard... even after spending 4 million knicks would have enough money for ONE top free agent... Only way to get two is to do the impossible...trade BOTH curry and jeffries... not gonna happen. But which top free agent comes to a team with no point guards (Duhon will be free agent, only have toney douglas left there). NONE. Therefore yes i am upset that donnie let a kid that could easily start on this team for the next 10 years slip away for the 4 million which would NOT stop us from getting ONE free agent, which is all we will get.
Plus i do understand what you are saying about marbury, however i dont see how tinsely is any different in that respect he is a mini marbury. Plus the year before marbury was put in shackles by the coaching staff was the year he led us to the playoffs, the only one of the decade. And i dont know if you are a knick fan or not but if you actually watched knick games he actually played real well and was very loved here , until all these contreversies, injuries and benchings started.
One yr contract??? Bogus!!! He could get hurt and have to work a 9-5 for the rest of his life, his family isn't stupid.
P.S. No player in the last 30 years has regretted not going to the Knicks.
guess that goes to show people on here that everyone doesnt wanna go to new york. so many people were talking about how much new york has to offer and such a big market and blah blah yet sessions decided not to go there...i guss players dont view it the same as fans/sportswriters. plus there talent there is very suspect. ill take jefferson and love and flynn over any of the knicks players since all have better potenial
Yea, I think it's definitely going to end up NY regretting their failure to get that guy in a Knicks uniform... but not more than they'll regret not unloading Jeffries when they had the chance... DUMB. (if that's true, but I've been hearing that a lot lately)
Tezo, I generally agree with you, but I think your loyalty can sometimes get in the way of your view on things. Just because someone has done good things in the past, doesn't make them right from there on out. If he was willing to give Kidd a multi year deal than he should have done the same for Sessions, especially if it wasn't even for the full mid-level.
The Knicks are looking absolutely awful, and I have no idea why any top flight player would want to play there. They haven't treated their current players well at all, in favor of people who MIGHT come play for them in the summer of craziness, but let's be real, the Knicks are more than one or two players away from being contenders. Adding young talent at a bargain price (a la Sessions) is something they need to do... They did it last summer with Duhon- except, he's not very young, and the full mle isn't exactly a bargain.1.5 million might not seem like that much of a difference, but if the cap is at 50 mill that's 3% of the cap.
So they signed duhon to a deal worth 11% of the entire cap, and he's not even a relevant piece. Sure, they'll have cap space this summer, but even if they get two stars, they won't have the surrounding pieces to make it work- making their willingness to go over into the luxury tax a MOOT POINT. Man, they need that first round pick back
that was a very very good point badger. even with 2 stars they still will be lacking unless its 2 super stars (lebron,wade wade, bosh, lebron, bosh etc. which is very very unlikely. the knicks might be setting there selfs up for a very big fall next summer
Sessions would have come to New York if donnie actually offered him a contract, im tired of hearing this NY doesnt have a draw nonsense based on that a few old guys wouldnt take pay cuts to play here because they would be 40 by the time things turn around. Sessions was waiting on donnie which is why it took so long for him to sign somewhere else, but it became clear for everyone including his agent that donnie was not going to give up his precious space for the summer. And i dont care if you call me an ungrateful fan but so far i have not seen him do anything that i can get excited about. The only exciting piece in NY is wilson chandler and hes from the isaiah era. Donnie has done nothing but disappointed me so far, there was no reason not to give this guy a 4 million dollar contract since it would automatically make him a player with the 2nd most potential on a roster full of losers.
I just don't think they'll have even close to enough room to sign 2 stars.
Next year they have 22 mill committed:
Curry + Jeffries = 18 mill
Douglas + Hill = 4 mill
Lets be generous and say they can sign two stars, at a slight 12 million/yr discount since they'll be playing in NY (which I dont think is very realistic, but just for this example)
so right there they've got 22 mill in Curry, Jeffries, Douglas, and Hill, and then 24 mill committed to 2 STAR PLAYERS. That's 46 million right there. Even if the cap is 53 million, that gives them 7 million to sign THE REST OF THEIR TEAM.
A couple other points:
-If you sign people using your cap space, you are no longer eligible to use the mid-level exception, so that's out the window.
-If they want to resign their guys, using Bird Rights, they have to sign them BEFORE July 1 when they can sign FAs... So it's a tradeoff, either save money to pay superstars or use the Bird rights and resign players....
Even with 2 Stars, no one is scared of Curry, Jeffries, Douglas, Hill + whatever 7 million can get you... and that number is assuming 53 million cap , which could be too high, and that 2 stars will sign for 12 mill each, which is probably too low.
You can't win with 2 stars and junk on the rest of the team.
wow...thats pretty bad news..i actually knew most of the stuff but everytime i say something negitive about the knicks i get a bunch of knicks fans calling me a hater
you guys are forgetting wilson chandler and danilo gallinari... who are both going to be incredible along side a superstar or two. New York is very high on both and i honestly non baisedly see really big things for them in the future. On top of that you are forgetting that the knicks can go over the cap to resign nate and lee after signing the stars. Also al harrington has pretty much said hes willing to take a discount to stay here and he can also be signed over the cap. therefore it will not be as bleak as you mentioned it if they get two stars. so nate, lee, gallo, wilson, al, and a nice couple of young players like hill and douglas is not that bad to go along with amare and lebron for example. Only thing missing from that team from being a dynasty is A POINT GUARD...which is why i am so mad about sessions.
chanlder is ok. gallinari still hasnt done anything..everything is on hoping and wishing that he turns into this star..chandler also plays the same position as most of the top free agents.you have lee whos a 4 ..gallinari whos also a four..neither is a center of sf..then the knicks drafted hill whos a 4..harrington is a 4 who can play some three..chandler is a 3..the best player son the team play the same position....yeah any team wants to go over the cap but no team really wants too and knicks have clearly stated that they arent going over the cap which will be even lower next year
Chandler is a lot more than ok, last year was technically his rookie season expect about 18 and 6 from him this season. Gallo if not anything else will prove that he has a top 5 purest shot in the NBA and once a star comes along he will have a field day shooting. Gallinari is also not a 4 hes gonna play a point forward for the knicks, hes nowhere near strong enough for the 4. All of these players are versatile... nate plays 1/2, chandler can play 2/3/4, so can gallo (4 rarely), harrington 3/4, lee and hill can both play 4/5. You can easily put any combination of those 5 players on the floor at the same time. The only clear whole is at the 1 which is why i keep stressing how key it was for the knicks to acquire a point guard to continue rebuilding. Those 6 guys with sessions i think is a very solid group to build around. They would form a better supporting cast than what miami and cleveland has to offer.
And the knicks will go over the cap once the free agents they want are signed. Knicks have no problem spending money, even as the struggle they are the wealthiest franchise in the league, continue to be profitable and unlike these current franchises with stars who tip toe around not paying luxury tax and are scared to make big additions ( i think its pathetic that cavs r signing scrubs like moon and parker just to seem like they are keeping lebron happy). Make no mistake if they sign their stars, nate, lee, harrington and whoever else are going to get the money they want.