Who was a worse GM? Kevin McHale, Isiah Thomas or Scott Layden?
McHale became Minnesota GM in 95.
Draft History (prominent picks):
95: Drafted Garnett out of High School before it became a popular thing to do. He really didn’t have a hard choice though since the only players with decent careers who were drafted after him were Theo Ratliff, Brent Barry, Damon Stoudermire, Finley and Kurt Thomas.
96: Drafts Ray Allen but traded him for Marbury.
98: Drafts Rasho Nesterovic over Al Harrington
99: Wally Szczerbiak over Richard Hamilton, Marion, Jason Terry, Andre Miller
Also took William Avery at #14 over Artest, James Posey and Andrei Kirilenko
05: Drafts McCants over Granger
06: Drafts Brandon Roy and trades him for Randy Foye
07: Drafts Brewer over Noah, Spencer Hawes, Thaddeus Young and Stuckey.
08: Drafts OJ Mayo and trades him for Love (and other players) but they already had
The Wolves lost their 1st rounds picks in 2000, 01, 02 and 04 because of secret Joe Smith deal.
Prominent trades and signings:
In 97 he resigns Garnett to then record contract of 6yrs $126 mil which causes the NBA to do a lock out the following year. Marburry and Gugliotta become jealous of Garnett contract and Wolves realize they can’t make them happy and resign them to anything comparable so they work a 3 team deal and trade Marbury for Terrell Brandon. They let Googs walk.
In 2000 came the Joe Smith debacle that caused them to loose 4 first round picks.
In 2003 they trade for Sprewell, Cassel and Olowokandi.
In 2005 they trade Cassel for Marko Jaric and let Spree walk because they were unhappy with contract negotiations.
In 2007 they trade Garnett and get Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Telfair, Gerald Green, Ratliff and 2 first rounders
In Dec 08 he was relieved of GM duties and later let go as coach after the season.
Scott Layden became Knicks GM in 99.
Draft, trade and signing history:
Trade 2000 1st rounder to Suns in Ewing deal
Trade 2001 1st rounder along with Childs to Raptors for Mark Jackson and Mugsy
02: drafts Nene and trades him along with M. Jackson, Camby to Denver for McDyess fresh off major knee surgery, a 2nd rounder and Frank Williams. McDyess ended up playing only 18 games for them in 2 years.
03: Drafts Sweetney over David West, Diaw, Pietrus, Ridnour, Outlaw, Barbosa and Josh Howard
Also took Lampe in 2nd round over Mo Williams and Kyle Korver
In 1999 he resigns Sprewell for 5ry $62 mil.
In 2000 he traded Ewing for Glen Rice, Longley and Travis Knight and Vernon Maxwell.
In 2001 he traded Erick Strickland, a first and 2nd round pick to Grizzlies for Othella Harrington. (first round pick turned out to be Jamal Tinsley)
In the 01/02 season he resigned Allan Houston for 6yr $100 mil. He also traded Rice and Bogues in a 3 team deal that landed them Howard Eisley and Shandon Anderson. That deal put them on the hook for 6yrs each at a combined $77 mil, which was about $47 mil more worth of contracts that they traded away and put them deeper against the cap.
In the 03/04 season he traded Sprewell in a 4 team trade that landed them Van Horn. Signed Mutombo to 2yr deal.
In Dec 03 he was fired.
Isiah Thomas became Knicks GM in Dec 03.
Trades and signings:
A month after getting the job, he traded Eisley, Ward, McDyess, Lampe, 04 1st rounder and future 1st rounder (2010 pick that Utah now has) for Marbury and A. Hardaway. He also traded Van Horn for Tim Thomas and got Nazr Mohammed from Atl.
In 04 he did a sign and trade with Chicago and got Jamal Crawford for Jerome Williams, Frank Williams, Mutombo, O Harrington and Trybanski.
In 05 he signed Jerome James to max mid level. Got Curry in a sign and trade with Chicago along with Antonio Davis for Tim Thomas, Sweetney, Jermaine Jackson, 06 1st rounder, switch of 07 1st rounders, and 07 and 09 2nd round picks.
In 05/06 season he signed Jarred Jefferies to max mid level. Traded Antonio Davis expiring contract to Chicago for Jalen Rose which had another 2 years left. Also traded A. Hardaway expiring contract and Ariza to Orlando for Francis (I think Larry Brown pushed for that)
Before 06/07 season he was involved in sexual harassment suit that cost the Dolans $12 mil in a settlement.
In 07/08 season he traded Frye and Francis to Portland for Z. Randolph, Fred Jones and Dickau during the draft.
04: Trevor Ariza (2nd round)
05: Frye over Bynum and Granger. Picked up Nate Robinson and David Lee with late 1st round picks
06: Balkman over Rondo, Josh Boone, Lowry. Drafted Collins late in 1st round
07: Wilson Chandler
He was fired March of 08
They all did horrible jobs and made bad decisions.
McHale did draft Garnett and the Allen for Murbury trade was an even trade at that time (foolish now). The Garnett signing for $126 mil changed the landscape of contracts and was a huge factor in the lockout. The Joe Smith secret deal caused the Wolves to loose 4 1st rounders and 3.5 mil and set the team back for years. They still havn’t recovered. His draft picks outside of Garnett and Allen/Marbury were horrible.
Layden wanted choir boys and traded away Camby and draft rights to Nene for a broke down McDyess. Sprewell for Van Horn and Rice for Eisley and Anderson. Put them way over the cap. Traded Ewing for Rice and Longley. He should have kept Ewing for the last 2 years of his contract and had him rotating with Camby. Resigning Houston to that 6yr $100 mil deal was real stupid. Nobody was able to offer him half that contract. They could have let him walk and put Sprewell back at his natural position (shooting guard). Trading a 1st and 2nd for O. Harrington which the 1st rounder turned out to be Tinsley!
Isiah traded for Marbury and Hardaway. It put them further over the cap but it looked to be a good trade at the time. His draft picks (outside of Frye and Balkman) were good. Balkman was ok but he could have got him with the 29 pick instead of Collins and he could have gotten Rondo with that 20 pick. His worse moves was signing Jerome James and Jared Jefferies to max mid level deals. Doing a sing and trade with Chicago for Crawford wasn’t bad. Doing a sign and trade for Curry was bad but woudn’t have been if he would have just given up either the 06 first rounder or the right to switch 07 first rounders. Not both. Jalen Rose for the expiring contract of Antonio Davis is a trade you make if you were in position to go deep in the playoffs which of course they weren’t. I still think Larry Brown forced the trade for Frances (he wanted to push Marbury aside). Frye and Francis for ZeBo didn’t look bad at the time either but they were better off letting those contracts just expire.
It was real close but I think McHale did the worse job. (partly because he lasted so long and did more damage) In NY he would have been fired after the Joe Smith deal. I think Layden did the second worse. He started putting the Knicks into the salary cap bind they are still in. He could have kept the Knicks somewhat competitive while rebuilding around Spree, Camby and Nene. By default Isiah did the better job. His biggest mistakes were giving the max mid to Jefferies and James and giving Chicago one too many first round picks. Also the unprotected first round pick Utah now owns from the Marbury trade looks real bad now.
Who do you guys think did worse?
I think McHale did the MOST damage over the course of his term with the Wolves... but Thomas did the most damage PER YEAR....
Also, don't forget that the Wolves owe the Clippers a 1st rounder from the Cassell-Jaric trade.... WHAT!!!!!!! we traded cassell for an overpaid combo guard and WE GAVE UP a first?!!!!! what an awful trade mchale.... it's top-10 protected this year, but completely unprotected after that. almost as DUMB as the Knicks' pick owed to the Jazz. Actually, I'd say dumber
Dont forget about Rob Babcock from the Raptors.
2004 draft, Rafael Aroujo 1 pick before Andre Iguodala
2005 draft, Joey Graham 1 pick before Danny Granger
Traded away Vince Carter for basically nothing.
But id say McHale hasnt done a great job.
Scott Layden. I remember being in the Garden when we screamed "FIRE SCOTT LAYDEN!"
He also gave us a crappy coach in Don Chaney
I didn't even touch on the coaches they hired. I had already written too much. lol
But they made bad choices on those too.
u buggin im not reading al of that!!!!!
i gotta life man!!!!
To me Layden is the worst. He made horrible decisions and didn't seem to ever acquire great talent. McHale was second worst. The Joe Smith thing was something that I think the owner knew about too so he gets blamed. I remember him drafting Allen and trading him for Marbury and being confused. In his defense, Marbury played very well while in Minnesota, they just were not able to keep building around a core because Marbury wasn't going to stay if he wasn't the star and they never really had solid role players at the time.
I think Isiah just had too much money at his disposal. Also, there was a lot of pressure to get things to turn around and he was trying to do it too quickly. I think he always understood the game from the perspective of trying to get better talent, but not how to make the pieces fit. The guy drafted better than most GMs, especially with some of the late picks he got. He should have learned from watching Chicago that for as talented as Curry and Crawford were, they had some big weaknesses and are not the type of guys you build your team around. I think if he had more time to learn underneath a smart GM that he could definitely come back and do the job and be amazing.
lol. Next time I'll keep it short and simple for you!
thank u very much
I used to Layden was the worst. But I think Isaiah came and even blew him away with awfulness. I mean, at least Layden got them to the Finals. Isiah spent more money and did'nt even win games. NY is a rare position where a gm is pretty much given a blank check and told the cap is'nt really a problem. So Isiah went out and spent like crazy bringing guys like Marbury, Francis, Penny, Jermoe James, jalen rose, Jeffries, Malik Rose, Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry, Zach Randolph to name a few. He also traded away picks, Knicks don't have theirs next year. He put together a roster that did'nt mesh well, Neither Eddy nor curry play D. Marbury, Crawford, Francis, and Nate Robinson all are shoot first gaurds.
He also hired a coach in Larry Brown while giving him what was at the time the richest contract ever for a coach, and then said less then a year later that they never saw eye to eye. I would think the first thing you would do before shelling out 50 million on a coach is to make sure you were on the same page.
He also got into legal trouble for sexually harrasing a female employee. He made one of the most crazy statements ever when Kobe was demanding a trade and Isiah said that he would love to have Kobe, but that there was no way he would ever trade Eddy Curry for Kobe. Dude should have been laughed out of NY for that statement alone.
Isiah was the worst.
All good points. I didn't hear about the Kobe for Curry comment. But Layden came right after the lockout shortened season where the Knicks lost to the Spurs.
kevin mchale. i think thomas was the best out of da 3. Thomas was a draft genius. drafted,lee,chandler,traded for robinson and traded for crawford.but he' was horrible in getting team chemistry which led to more losses
yea, given the same tenure as mchale, I think layden and thomas may have overtaken mchale... I mean, Mchale singlehandedly wasted like 12 years with one of the best players ever (KG)... and now because of mchale, no one will ever give KG the respect he deserves, simply for the fact that he never had any teammates and couldn't get outta the first round
Here's why I think Mchale was not as bad as the other two:
He did'nt have as much money to spend and he did'nt have the same free agent pull in Minnesote as you have in NY.
He was around much longer then either Isiah or Scott, so their rap sheet would be even longer with mistakes if they were GM's for like 15 years.
He drafted KG at a time when drafting highschool players was'nt being done and considered a huge risk.
He did get the team to the confrence finals one year and was a regular in the playoffs for a very long stretch.
Trading Cassell was'nt a mistake, just what he got for him was bad. Also, he did'nt over commit to Sprewell either when he was free agent demanding huge dollars and spitting on the 3 year 21 mill he was offered. Both Cassell and Latrell were on their way down and would have not taken the loss in minutes well.
And when i evaluate how bad a gm was, i don't just look at things in hindsight, I look at things when they are being done. And Isiah and Scott both had way more moves that just looked absolutely awful the second they were made. I could have run the franchise better then Isiah.
The wolves didn't get to the playoffs all those years BECAUSE of him (besides the fact that he drafted KG), they got to the playoffs all those years IN SPITE of him...
The cassell trade was AWFUL! they GAVE UP a 1st rounder to acquire Marko 'has never done a thing but still has a huge contract' jaric.... that's just awful.
true. I never said McHale was good. But I think he was better then other two, which is'nt saying a whole lot. And why is'nt Elgin Baylor on this list. He ran the clips for like 23 years and got out the first round once I believe.
gator, by the way, i just saw that you won that contest, congrats man
read it either lmao bu isiah was a ok drafter
Kerr's off to a good start. I loved how when he took over the first thng he said was how the run and gun style did'nt really work and they needed to become better defensively. Then he immediately proceeded to trade Marion for Shaq and Raja for Richardson. Yeah, that's how you improve your defense right there.
The worst GM of the 3 for me is...definitely Isiah Thomas... The guy made a lot of bad moves during his tenure trying to build a strong team in one day... He signed guys like Jerome James and Jared Jefferies to "superstar" contracts and gave Larry Brown the richest contract ever for a coach... Trading for Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry would have been fine except that in the Curry trade, they gave up 2 lottery bound picks which hurt the Knicks in more ways than one. Look at the effect: They have the highest paid salary among all teams in the NBA and they have the second-worst record in the NBA that time. Knicks fans deserve better and Isiah wasn't giving them a productive team... He gave them a laughing stock... A team that any opposing player can set up a career high be it in scoring, rebounding and assists...
In fairness to Isiah, he's got a knack for drafting talents especially in the late first - second round... Examples of that would be David Lee, Nate Robinson and Wilson Chandler.... Channing Fye isn't that bad... He was a solid player with the Knicks... I remember the fans booing when they drafted him but he turned out alright for the Knicks... but they did miss out on Danny Granger which was a sorry sight.
For the record: all three are pretty bad... I never respected McHale's decision in last year's draft when he traded their 3rd pick, OJ Mayo for Memphis 5th pick Kevin Love... and some other bunch of players that were not producing that much... OJ became a scoring stud while the T'Wolves are stuck with an undersized but solid power forward...but he's no Mayo... I rally scratched my head at that time...