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Mario Chalmers

d-grizzly
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what i'm saying is getting blown by which draws another player away from his man leads to opportunity.... that to me is just as bad as the other team getting points off a turnover.

because of those similarities, we can't call turnover prone players nash/wade/paul etc. non-playmakers. Which leads me to say that chalmers swiping for the ball and getting blown by doesn't mean he's not a lockdown defender.

xbadgerhustler
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i disagree. all things

i disagree.

all things equal... sometimes people are going to get blown by, but the likelihood of getting blown by is way higher if you're gambling for steals compared to if you're staying in good position all the time...

i still don't see the correlation between the turnover-prone players...

d-grizzly
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the comparison

playmakers turning the ball over doesn't mean they're not a playmaker

just as much as

lockdown defenders getting blown by doesn't mean they're not a lockdown defender.

xbadgerhustler
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i never said a lockdefender

i never said a lockdefender getting blown by means they're not a lock down defender.

ckowalski
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A lockdown defender can get

A lockdown defender can get blown by. It happens, just not enough to talk about it. Sometimes better offense can beat great defense. When Kobe hits a shot with Battier's hand in his face no one is saying Battier can't play D. Or when Kobe does that stupid move where he throws it off the backboard and grabs the rebound when he gets trapped. That's just better offense beating out great defense.

d-grizzly
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" If you're gambling that

" If you're gambling that much, there are times when you're getting burned and you can't be considered a lockdown defender if that's the case. " - you said this

I'm here to defend that chalmers..is a good defender...and even if he gambles too much and gets burned..it doesn't mean he's not a lockdown defender.

d-grizzly
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and it

and it also has quite a bit of similarity to playmakers. Playmakers will gamble on wild passes and turn it over...by the above statement you made...it would be like saying if playmakers are wild and turn it over often, you can't call them a playmaker. i disagree with that idea.

ckowalski
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Chalmers is a good defender,

Chalmers is a good defender, but would you really want him on the guy that is going to take the winning shot for the other team at the end of a game? I wouldn't. That's why I don't consider him a lock down defender.

xbadgerhustler
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I think Mario gambles too

I think Mario gambles too much to be considered a lock down defender...you apparently disagree...

I meant, if you're gambling that much than there are too many times when you're getting burned BECAUSE of that gamble, and because of the gambling, you can't be considered a lockdown defender.

d-grizzly
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and i'm

and i'm gonna stick to why i think it's wrong

playmakers who average 3+ turnovers a game are still considered playmakers...

just like lockdown defenders getting blown by 2-3 times a game..they're still lockdown defenders.

xbadgerhustler
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being a playmaker is like

being a playmaker is like gambling for a steal (high risk, high reward)... not like being a lockdown defender, which is low risk, low reward (and not gambling) so no, they aren't the same

xbadgerhustler
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that's a flawed argument

that's a flawed argument homie...

d-grizzly
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i don't think

i don't think we're gonna agree for the first time ever on this site, lol. meh, happens sooner or later.

STEVEDOT2
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Battier

Is one of the best defenders in the league....but keep in mind the houston has one of the best defensive coaches in the league...... There coach made the jordan rules a diagram of where jordan likes the ball..his tendceys to shoot in drive and in what locations..his percentages was all in a book......The coach has made the kobe rules also and battier doesnt make it easier... this a book the rules are in ..... battier is great reader and student knows his role and i wont be surprised if he becomes a defensive coach....Battier is a great on ball player his coach makes him even better

xbadgerhustler
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"just like lockdown

"just like lockdown defenders getting blown by 2-3 times a game..they're still lockdown defenders"

like i've said, what i meant to say, though i thought i was clear when i first stated it was: gambling too much leads to getting blown by MORE than if you simply positioned yourself well on defense.

to me a lockdown defender is someone who positions themself well and doesn't gamble for the steal...

STEVEDOT2
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Yeahh^^^ turnovers will

Yeahh^^^ turnovers will happen natrually...even more if you stick your man tight...somtimes it frustrates the ball handler...I know first hand I have been in fights and arguments over sticking to "close and being physical"

sheltwon3
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Chalmers could be a second

Chalmers could be a second round steal type like Mo Williams was. Their games are different but Mo Williams came out of nowhere to be a starter even made the all Star team even thought that is debatable but it was not like there was a lot of top guys who playing that much better than him. Chalmers got steals but he also could lock players down. Chalmers would be getting Rondo type love if he played with the Celtics instead of Rondo. People forget that Rondo was overlooked until he greats year with the big 3.

STEVEDOT2
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rondo wasnt overlooked he

rondo wasnt overlooked he was and alright player the celtics had high hope for him and he still is an alright player he hasnt done much ppl are in the way with the rondo hype ....ppl think woow he was a hidden gem noo he was always ard hes juss put in the rite situation with the big 3 like you said now he gets the praise....come on

STEVEDOT2
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rondo wasnt overlooked he

rondo wasnt overlooked he was and alright player the celtics had high hope for him and he still is an alright player he hasnt done much ppl are in the way with the rondo hype ....ppl think woow he was a hidden gem noo he was always ard hes juss put in the rite situation with the big 3 like you said now he gets the praise....come on

joe2BA
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Mario Chalmers DOES NOT RELY

Mario Chalmers DOES NOT RELY ON GAMBLING IN PASSING LANES TO GET STEALS. Believe me, I've watched every game he played in college and most of his steals are from pick pocketing guards dribbling down the court. Anyone who has ever played basketball knows this isn't as much of a defensive gamble as hawking the passing lanes like allen iverson or baron davis.

The dude is very gifted at this. Mookie Blaylock and Gary Payton are only players I've seen with hands as quick and accurate on defense. There is no coincidence that this guy set the Heat franchise record in steals for a game (9), broke the Big 12 record for steals in a season, and was on pace to break ku's if he stayed 4 years.

I think at worse he is a lindsey hunter who in his prime gets u around 12 points, 5 assists and played stingy D

But he has way more upside and if the Heat continue to develop him alongside D Wade, I think he could be a terrell brandon type guy who in his prime can get u 18 and 7 assists, over 2 steals, and cracks an all star game.

But theres more to guy than stats. He can gel with almost any superstar and I could see him with a couple of rings when he retires. He has some kind of intangible that cannot be taught

JNixon
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Chalmers is the classic

Chalmers is the classic overachiever. He isnt the most physically gifted player, but he is a leader, he defends, runs the offense, and hits open jumpers. Nothing more nothing less. He's a starter caliber player, but if you think he'll be elite, you'll be very disappointed.

Allen20
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i think

i think chalmers will be a good pg.he can be as good as he wants to be but he is a beasty defender.top 10 in steals as a rookie? thats pretty good for a like a 6-2 pg.he is pretty clutch if he hit a big shot to win a NCAA championship

OldSkoolBasketball
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He will be solid but to have

He will be solid but to have a ceiling to CP3? I dont think so.

joe2BA
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agreed

agreed

xbadgerhustler
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In college I think a lot of

In college I think a lot of his steals came picking up full court, but I doubt that he's had very much success pick pocketing professional PGs. when I saw him play, he did take gambles on steals... Bill Self said the kid had the best anticipation skills he'd ever seen, which implies gambling (anticipating) passes before they happen....

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