I wrote this after the finals
Now first off I am not writing this because I am a Kobe/Laker fan i am writing this because I am a basketball fan/purist first. Everyone says Jordan is on a different planet than kobe but I am not here to knock how gr8 jordan is because hes da gr8est I am here to explain to u how good kobe bean bryant actually is. So if u r just a hater of kobe or jordan than this note is not for ur eyes.
My first point, Jordan came into the nba after 3 yrs of college and was the focal point of his team and therefore averaged 28.2 ppg, Kobe came into the league str8 out of high school and was behind veterans his first three yrs, after what would have been his jr yr of college he avg 22.5 ppg while not being da focal point of the laker offense. If kobe would have came out after his jr yr of college it is almost certain he wouldve been a lottery pick and would have enjoyed the same hefty ppg avg as his heirness on a team that wasnt a contender.
My second point everyone says how kobe could never win without shaq and he could never lead his team like jordan did but lets not forget that jordan in his 1st yr lost to the bucks n da first round, kobe didnt make the playoffs his first yr leading a team, jordans second year he was swept by the celtics team of bird, mchale, and perish jordan dropped 63 dat series, while kobe didnt win the mvp tho he avg 35 ppg n pushed a suns team that many considered one of the best offenses of da past decade to 7 games b4 losing n da 1st round where kobe dropped 50 n a game. n jordans third year he lost again n da season he avg 37 ppg n lost the mvp award to magic johnson. Get my point here? It took time for the yung players on the bulls to develop b4 they were good and after 7 seasons jordan won his championship, it took the yung laker players sum time to develop and in 5 YEARS of leading a team kobe got his first ring.
Everyone makes such a big deal of the scoring titles n how kobe did not avg as many pts as jordan but if you look at how many ppg kobe has avg since bein the main focal point there is not dat much of a disparity to jordans. since kobe has become the man he has avg nearly 29.9 or 30 ppg. jordan over his career avg was 30.1 ppg. is that much of a difference? jordan won 6 rings leading his team, kobe only has 1 n 1 mvp but kobe has 3 rings prior and has a chance to pass jordan n ring totals. jordan had 14 all star appearances n kobe has 11 n is going to break that record before its over, kobes career high n points is 81 n 61 n da garden while jordans is 69 including 55 at the garden. jordan has been an all defensive player 11 times n kobe is already on 9. Kobe may not have as many scoring titles but than again kobe has gone against ppl who score n only score such as iverson, mcgrady, d-wade, lebron, players who cud put up these numbers against anybody of any era. The game may not b as physical as wen jordan played but there r way more athletes.
I could waste your time saying how jordan n kobe can both make any shot possible and all dat but that is not the point of this, while kobe has been branded as selfish and arrogant people tend to overlook his gr8ness, he has the same ferocity as jordan and yet jordan was never considered any of those words. i want u 2 remember that this note was not 2 downplay how gr8 jordan is but just consider this, if kobe keeps up the pace he's at with this laker team, wont he have more acolades than his heirness? I just want you guys to remember Jordan is gr8 but Kobe isn't dat far behind, jordan betta get nervous bcuz his title as the gr8est is in jeopardy.
Very good points, but I think we need to stop the comparing until all is done. How 'bout we appreciate the "Jordan" of our Era. That's what Kobe is and LeBron is Magic, (Rebounding, Scoring, and Assits), Dwight is the new Shaq, it's all just a new era. We should enjoy it before it's over because Kobe is 32.
great OFFENSE NOt DEFENSE. .
jordan put up 63 on the celtics. .with bird, parish, mchale. . they were a great defense
I like this posts and it is good that someone actually brought up facts and not hype. Also early on in Jordan career there was talk of him being selfish but he was not villified by the media like Kobe and it all kind of went away. Even when he did stuff it got covered up.
The syntax in the OP is absolutely terrible.
Phil Jackson said it best. Kobe is a better shooter. Jordan is better at every other part of the game. I'm going to take his word since he coached each of them, knows them personally, and set up his teams around them.
Kobe is not MJ. That's not a bad thing. Kobe is who he is. And he's not the undisputed best player of his era. A lot of people (myself included) would say Tim Duncan is the best player since MJ.
Let's just enjoy Kobe for who he is and not try and make him something he's not.
You left out entire sections of Jordan's history. He missed 2 seasons when his dad died. Those were both in his prime. Would have been 2 more all-star's and probably 2 more scoring titles. And he retired early after 1998. Jordan very well could have won 1991-1998 titles all in a row.
You also left out one important stat. Jordan is 6/6 in the Finals (That's 6 titles in his first 12 seasons). Kobe is 4/6.
It's worth getting rated down to tell the truth. This post is full of fail. Kids who grew up watching Kobe need to realize that his AIRNESS (NOT heriness) is the undisputed greatest player of all time.
Offense to Kobe he is a great player and a good defender. I think Mike was way better than him on D. I really think he is not even comparable to Mike on D, but thats just me.
Dwayne Wade is a MUCH more accurate comparison to Jordan's game than Kobe is.
How awesome would a game of one-on-one be between both of these guys in their prime...
Agree I think Wade is a better comparison. Blocks shots and gets steals at MJ's rate more than Kobe, and he scores similar too.
Oh yea he is. Wade's legacy will be if he can develop an outside jumper like Jordan did. If not, his body will wear out too quickly. Wade is my favorite 2-guard in the league. Him and Reggie Miller are my 2 favorites since Jordan.
I agree with EVERY statement this man has made in this post. When it comes down to it, Kobe doesn't compare that well to MJ. Not on offense or defense in my opinion. MJ was a pure beast on defense and no matter what the situation was you could count on him to make a great play. For as many clutch plays as Kobe makes, he makes as many big time mistakes and he's the first one to blame his teammate when it's clearly his fault. He made quite a few in the finals, but people tend to forget about those when you win a championship (i.e, getting beat by a rookie on a backdoor cut for what should have been a game winning layup). MJ was also playing against better competition. If you look at the teams that Kobe won championships against, it's really hard to be all that impressed....
1999-00 Pacers...by far the best team of the bunch, but also facing Shaq at his peak.
The Bulls faced AND won against...
...by the way, Wade is the closest thing to Jordan since Jordan. The style and tenacity is eerily similar. No one can stop him from getting to the rim and he is amazing at taking contact and finishing. He's just in a near hopeless situation right now. I always wondered how far the team with him, Odom, Caron Butler, and Rafer Alston could have made it if they stayed together.
Jordan: 6-0 in the NBA finals (Nuff said).......
I don't think he is as good as MJ, but people seem to think that he isn't a good defender. That is simply not true. He can play lockdown D and is one of the best defenders in the league, having made the all Defensive team several times.
Michael will always be the greatest player of all time... His respect and love for the game has always been there... Kobe is the best player in the NBA today and I am basing it on the statements of Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson...and he has proven that time and time again this decade. I don't think Michael's legacy will be severely damage over the fact that Kobe is "approaching" his legendary status... Even IF and only IF Kobe ever is considered the greatest of all time, I think Kobe will still downplay it... Kobe idolized MJ since his younger days and I don't think he will change his own idea as having Michael as the greatest player for him... Kobe has been annoyed by that comparison and has said a million times over that Michael Jordan was and is the best player that had ever played the game... He was the guy that set up higher standards for the NBA in terms of talent and business... Guys like Kobe, LeBron and D-Wade would soon follow that trend and maintain that status in the league...
Kobe will never reach Michael Jordan status but may come close if he can win 7 titles, I do think that people blow Jordan up to be bigger and better than what he actually was. Jordan was a great defender but Pippen was the reall shut down man on that team. Jordan also have trouble with smaller quicker type guards. Dywane Wade's game is closer to Jordan's on offense. Kobe in all honesty is a different kind of player than Jordan is. He can do a lot of things like Jordan but he has enough stuff not like Jordan to make the comparison not go right. I am old enough to have watched them both. I will say this though I think Jordan was more clutch though late in his career.
Making it seem like I said Kobe was better I even said Jordan was better I think he's the gr8est, and D- Wade Jordan comparisons on defense may be close but on offense I don't think they are the same kind of player.
Jordan was the first to put everything together and be a complete player. Think about it. Bird was not an athlete and could'nt dribble. Magic did'nt even pretend to play defense and could'nt shoot. Julius Erving could'nt dribble and was inconsistent from the perimeter. The game was different when Jordan played. The best perimeter players then were guys like Mullins, Dumars, Drexler, Starks, Richmond etc. None of those guys are as great of athletes or complete players as today.
Jordan raised the bar for everyone. He had the post game, the ball handling, the perfect form on the jump shot, the defense, the athleticism, the creativity, the mental strength, the toughness. He had everything and he changed the standards for greatness. No one could keep up with him, so he dominated the league.
Now Kobe has everything Jordan had, but the entire league has raise their games in large part to Jordan.. Instead of getting gaurded straight up by Ehlo and finishing on Koncak, players have to get by much better athletes and defenses. Guys like Kobe, LeBron and Wade are competing against each other, while Jordan did'nt have anyone of their abilities to compete against. Kobe dropped 30 on Jordan in his rookie year as an 18 year playing against a prime Jordan.
it's a differnet game today, and Kobe is every bit as good as Jordan. Jordan still deserves to be considered the greatest until Kobe's career is over, but people who say it is'nt close are wrong.
with the selfish thing with Jordan, i believe the reason Kobe was more vilified early in his career because he was playing alongside alot more offensive fire power than Jordan was early in his career
Its interesting that some people talk about how Kobe Bryant played aganist superior "wing" (SG/SF) competition than Jordan.... But I disagree I think in the late 80s through the mid 90s the "wings" that Jordan played against were very comparable to the "wings" in the league now... They may not of been as athletic but I believe that they where as good or better all round players than the players Kobe has played against throughout his career (especially when it comes to shooting)... I think players like Dominique Wilkins, Joe Dumars, Mitch Richmond, Chris Mullin, Reggie Miller, Ron Harper, Glen Rice, Nick Anderson, Hersey Hawkins, Clyde Drexler, and Sean Elliot just to name a few would thrive in the league in this era...And the defense where much MORE PHYSICAL in Jordans day than they are now... IMO the reason why Kobe-Jordan comaprison doesnt work is because 1. Jordan NEVER lost in a finals and 2. Kobe had Jordans skill BUT not his legendary mental toughness...
At age 30, Kobe has already been to the Finals as many times as Jordan. If he plays 5-7 more seasons, he should easily pass Jordan in Finals appearances. And I don't think Nique, Dumars, Richmond, Miller etc. are as good as Lebron, Wade Carmelo, Durant, etc.
But Jordan has never lost in the Finals.... And I feel that those players can give Lebron, Wade, Melo, Durant and whoever plays in this era a run for their money.... They may not be as physically gifted as those players but they where fundamentally sound and where very solid all around players.... People make it seem like players Jordan played against where push overs..... Kobe needed to be surround by arguably the BEST supporting cast in the NBA to win his first championship without Shaq (and I believe Boston would have beaten the Lakers if Garnett had not got injured).....
Good stuff, everyone always "forgets" the guys guarding Jordan. Its easy to do, but Jordan like you said was in a class all by himself. Now the league is full of athletic guys who can do a little bit of everything. I'm sure its much easier to dominate a league where you're the most athletic player the game has EVER seen. Jordan had game, but lets not forget his competition. Name some of the top 2's from his time. Come on guys.
Now thanks for making Kobe's argument.
A lot of people are missing the point. Like billyk said, the league was much more physical when Jordan played. The last few rule changes that have been made have actually been made to cut down on physicality, especially on the perimeter making it easier for those guys to get points (i.e., no hand checking). Kobe struggled and lost against the C's and Pistons in finals because those two teams were allowed to play him more physical. He won 3 championships playing as the sidekick to the most dominate player in the league and won his 4th against a team that was a mediocre finals team at best. Most of you would agree that Shaq is way more of a dominant player than Pippen to have on your side.
By the way, you don't have to be a great athlete to be a great defender. In recent years I don't think any of you would consider Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Rasheed Wallace or Dikembe Mutumbo great athletes and those have been some of the best and most consistent guys on the defensive end in recent years. A guy that I really like in Chris Anderson is a super athlete. He's explosive and blocks a lot of shots, but he also goes flying at everything meaning he fouls more often than he should. We saw what a skilled offensive player like Dirk did to him in the playoffs. The defensive awards that are being given out in recent years have been mostly garbage. Don't keep spewing this nonsense about guys like Joe Johnson and Kevin Durant. When in the world has anyone seen either of these guys make a crucial stop on defense? A lot of these guys can do more, but it seems to me like the jack of all trades master of nothing scenario. It seems like the guys who make the all nba team get thrown on there. Kobe Bryant is a good defender, but not great and that's because he expends so much energy on offense. By the same token, MJ was great on both ends. I never felt like he had to pick his moments when to pick it up his intensity on defense like Kobe does.
Let's put things in perspective. All of us watched the finals. I don't know about everyone else, but I didn't feel as though Kobe was always the best player on the floor. At times I felt Gasol was more dominant than him and he was being guarded by a much better defender. With these so called great defenders/athletes of today, if MJ was being guarded by Pietrus, Lee (a Rookie), and JJ Reddick would he not have averaged 40 a game for the series?
people are releasing a ton of wrong facts and statements
someone said that jordan played against great wings,correction jordan played against great offensive wings, ie....drexler, miller, nique, glen rice, mitch richmond, chris mullin etc
no one will say any of those guys were defensive stoppers
and someone else spoke about courtney lee getting around kobe for the back door lob, if you go back and think about the play, kobe was cut off by a defender on his on team(ODOM) that's why lee was open
d-wade is not a good comparision just because if blocks and steals, jordan was a great one on one defender, wade is a great off ball defender, because he too get's burned for 40 against another great player
in all jordan will always be better than kobe even if kobe surpasses him in acolades because as someone said kobe is vilified, he just made the list of the 10 most hated athletes, you can't compare players because of time, we will never no how they would have matched up, we just go by stats so that's my opinion.
The POINT I was trying to make was that Jordan played aganist alot of SOLID wing players which people seem to forget .....
Imo Kobe has played in as mugh competion as Jordan has right now I think you have to put MJ ahead of Kobe but I think if Kobe wins 6 rings I think you can make the argument that Kobe was as good as MJ but if Kobe win 7 rings I think he would be the best of all time.
the real bottom line of this whole argument is that we will never know who the better player is. Of course someone can give their opinion but it will jus get shot down by someone else. Also i think their is a hate factor whether ppl willl admit it or not. their are haters 4 both kobe and jordan and as long as they are out there they will give their opinion based off hate not skill. I dont think its fair 2 compare any player especially when their career isnt close 2 being over. Kobe may go on 2 play maybe 5 or 6 more years and then the real conversation will begin. All we are doing now is speculating and yea its fun but it gets outta hand when ppl starts coming with fake stats and statistics. ANother reason we wont know who the best is is because these guys played in different time periods. The game has transcended a good bit as far as im concerned and it will continue to. good argument tho guys