just wanted to see different perspective from each teams' fans perspective. what's the least favorite move of this offseason (can be anything, from coaches, players, changes to the venue, etc.) and why?
i'm a raptors fan and my least favourite move is jay triano getting an extension as the head coach. he may be respected by the players, but i don't like his decision making and how he has no balls when arguing with refs. so timid.
I'm a Raptors fan too and I can't complain about the moves Colangelo has done for the Raptors. They were all stellar and I must say Raptors MIGHT end up if the 4th, only if they perform to the best they can be, but right now I can see them at a 5th or 6th seed.
I have to agree with you, the extension of Jay Triano was questionable and I would have preferred a different coach who is a certified winner. We'll see if this move pans out.
I wish we could've gotten Childress back this year. And if we win it all, does he get a ring?
I really hope Triano pans out but I have strong doubts about it.
It would've been nice to see Childress back in the NBA but it's hard to blame him for returning to Europe. He's in a stage in his life where he can make the most money through his basketball career, and since they're paying him in Europe, that's where he needs to be if he wants money.
And if we win it all, does he get a ring?
You dont need to worry about that...LOL
Celtics fan I think we could try harder to sign big baby he is a spark off tha bench a valuable part of our bench, also tha hawks won't win it all sooooo tha question is irrelavent
I can't say we've done any stupid moves...letting Ron-Ron go I guess, but we had a good offer, dude just wanted to win. I'm glad they didn't try and overpay him just like they did with Gortat. It's all good. I'm happy with the moves we made, we didn't go and overpay anyone. Von Wafer...a fan favorite, I'll miss him. I got the Von-Hawk man! Crazy, Houston had it all over, but I was one of the first. That Jermaine Taylor better be good. I like our draft, Chase Budinger is a stud and Segio Llull is someone who I look forward in the future. Young Athletic Point from Spain. The signing of Ariza was pretty good, a young talent who can replace Battier once he gets old, a real crucial part you need for a Championship Run. David Andersen? I don't know much about him, but I hear he is a nice player, 11 Points and 4-5 Rebounds in 22 Minutes? Not bad, a real winner wherever he was and a top Center in Europe. I don't expect much, but those numbers aren't bad, maybe some more rebounds and he will get the playing time. I like our team and hopefully Elston Turner doesn't leave us to go to Minny, good assistant.
I have to disagree also... I think the Rockets shouldn't have signed Ariza. Also Jermaine Taylor is OK but I think Budinger is a dud not a stud haha. He does nothing but shoot jumpshots...thats it. Lull is OK. People forget that the Rockets gave up a future 2nd round pick & 6 million dollars for those 3 2nd round picks....that was a stupid move in my eyes.
Trevor Ariza will shock many people this year
Ariza and Battier are essentially the same player, Ariza is just younger and more athletic. He will be a good replacement, especially if we can find a way to get both of them on the floor at the same time, maybe by sliding Ariza over to SG. I would rather overpay Ariza than overpay Ron and listen to him b!tch all season long about how it's a down year.
Plus, when you spell out tRAitor it has Artest's initials perfectly in it, so it makes for an awesome sign to hold up when the Fakers come to town.
People think all he is another Bruce Bowen. He is the new version of Ron Artest. Trust me, he will be a good slasher in a mid tempo team. Trust me.
Ariza is young and can be Battier's replacement. They are making the same I believe. I haven't checked it out so don't go all crazy if I am wrong. Um...I doubt you know much about Llull, not to be mean or anything. I made a topic on him and no one responded...basically saying no one on this site knows nothing about him so they just stayed quiet. As for Jermaine Taylor and Budinger, one had a horrible Summer League while the other had a great SL. I know Summer League isn't much, but if you can't dominate there when you say you are a "Scorer" then how can you expect to do it at the NBA Level where all the players belong. Budinger shoots alot, but he also makes a good amount of them and he can rebound and create for others although that wasn't really shown, he was suppose to focus on defense more then anything else.
You guys traded Rudy Gay for Battier.... we drafted Shelden Williams over Roy and Gay. How dumb were our gm's?
passing op on Dejuan Blair three times as a blazers fan.
That wasn't dumb at all as I've said numerous times. I'll take Battier over Gay anyday of the week. I'm tired of that being called a bad deal. What team doesn't want Battier? Sheesh.
Besides, it was this offseason and I don't believe Morey was our GM 3 Seasons ago although I could be wrong. I was there on draft night at the Toyota Center where many fans were disappointed about the trade, but then my cousin helped explain it to me and afterwards I thought it was a great move and it has been up until this day and I'm sure many basketball fans would agree.
A bad trade for the Rockets would be Richard Jefferson for Eddie Griffin? I believe. Horrible.
Also trading Sam and Robert Horry
rickyrubio- I don't know a ton about Llull but I know for a PG he doesn't rebound well or have many asst. Not to mention he isn't a great scorer. All I am saying is no way in he*l would I pay $6million dollars & give up a future 2nd round pick for three guys that I think at best will be 3 bench players.
trading for bj mullens!!!
Rudy is a better shooter, ballhandler, and scorer than battier. Battier is a bust, good defender.... but a bust.
The Rockets knew all those things before they traded for Battier. I don't think anyone was expecting Battier to average more points than Gay or take on any of the primary ballhandling duties. But he is a lockdown defender and a great locker room/ team chemistry guy, who wouldn't want him on their team? In retrospect, you can say it was a bad trade when you look at what Gay has become and think about what he could have done in Houston, but who would guard the top player on the opposite team then? Houston already had scorers, they needed a perimeter defender, and they got a good one. Battier is not a bust, he is a solid player. Gay IMO is not a premier scorer or a #1 option kind of scorer and he won't be the piece a championship team will build around, so I don't think Houston gave up anything they are regretting right now. Battier is a premier defender and he gives you something that other players can't provide. I think it is a lot easier to find a player who can give you 15-20 points a game than a player that can hold the other team's best player to 15-20 points a game.
Llull isn't coming over for at least another 2 years where he can develop.
Our Owner wanted what he wanted! If he wants to spend his money to get his guys then so be it. He trusts our GM Morey as does most of Houston which is who convinced him and besides like you said 3 Guys that are probably bench, why do the 2nd Round Picks hurt us then? Who is to say they wouldn't have been bench players as well? Chase Budinger, Jermaine Taylor, and Sergio Llull. I don't think all of them will be scrubs on the bench.
Battier a Bust? I never heard of that, coming out of college what did they expect? He is a Great Defender, Great Leader, Good Shooter, occasionally looks for his offense, and I think Rudy Gay is overrrated. He is on a bad team where he was asked to score...I don't hate on him, but how do we know if he would've developed into the Player he is today with the Rockets who already had their cornerstone pieces in Mac and Yao? We were looking good back then before the injuries. SO CHILL. All this hate on Battier.
I am a Pacers fan and I was hoping that Larry Bird was going to make some sort of move for a player that can come in and be a great second scoring option behind Granger. I know that we have now got more defense in the team but i really wanted Larry to get a Star quality player to go along with Danny.
BINGO. You hit it right on the head. Hopefully these people will understand the whole point of that trade.
McGrady hadn't had the injuries yet! My goodness...we didn't need an average defender. We were on the rise with the 1-2 Punch and Battier was a big aquisition for us that Summer. I think McGrady had just had his first injury, no one expected it to amount up to this.
Houston was good! And Yao got stuffed by Nate and Kobe. He is my least favorite Rockets player. Aside from Yao Houston had no size though. Mutombo was strictly a shot blocker and both him and Yao are only average rebounders for how gigantic both of them are. If you are going to have shooters driving in the lane all game the defense is going to collapse and they would have gotten killed by teams from deep. Houston's biggest problem was that they thought Yao could play 48 minutes a game until he was 42 so they never drafted a solid backup for him.
Rudy Gay is A GOOD DEFENDER! Have you watched him play? The only part of his game where he seems lack is his offense because he floats around the wing alot, but that might be a coaching problem.
And Battier is a bust... he was selected like 5th or 6th and is half the player Gerald Wallace is.
expected Battier to be an All-Star...did he even play like one at Duke? I don't believe so...wasn't that a weak draft class as well. I don't remember
im a huge arizona fan,,and i watched pretty much every game he played,,and he does a lot more than just shoot js,,,he didnt really show many of his talents at the summer league besides shooting,,he avg 6 boards a gm last year with jhill on the team thats really good,,,give him time and he will start to do more,,,BUT to my twolves i think it was a mistake not drafting derozan as i see ellington doin the same thing tha mccants did for us,,,nothing
If everyone got drafted where they were supposed to be then the League would be a lot different right now. Connecticut is my favorite team, I watch every Uconn player in the NBA. I never said Gay was a bad defender, but Battier is on another planet in terms of defensive ability. I would never look to Gay as a defensive stopper. If Blake Griffin puts up 17 and 6 as career averages is he a bust because he was the number one pick? Is Yao a bust because he has only been out of the first round once in 7 years because he was a top pick? The draft is all based on opinions and needs, whether a player is a bust or not depends on how you look at the situation he is placed in.
Why not let Al Jefferson develop into a great player for the Celtics? Because you have a chance to get KG and win NOW. And it worked out. If Houston had won a championship the year they traded for Battier we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.
OKC NOT signing Milsap or D-Lee even though they need a double digit rebounder. I trust Presti though and know he is protecting the team's cap space and since it's clear OKC isn't in championship contention WITH either of those two, let alone without them.
I had a feeling you would say something like that. No I am not saying that Jefferson and Battier are the same type of player, I am saying the though process is the same. If you can get a player that you think can help you win now instead of waiting for a young player to develop why wouldn't you do it? No one knew if Jefferson and Gay would live up to their potential, but you knew what you were getting with KG and Battier.
I'm done discussing it...that was actually a good idea to compare that trade with the Celtics. Exactly, we knew what we were getting with Battier, but with Gay who knows if he would have been a bust, btw Battier can't be considered a Bust being in the same draft class as Brown and Chandler.
Did you just say "J" and Gay in the same sentence...I could've sworn everyone thought that he needed to drive more and stop shooting so much. He play defense, but even a UCONN Fan said that he isn't on the same Planet as Battier.
thought it was going to make them contenders! Sheesh. Just because it failed doesn't mean anything. We were trying to win.
Battier is a championship piece, not that final piece, you're right on that, but obviously neither is Gay because he was expendable. Houston is closer to winning a championship with Battier than Memphis is with Gay for the forseeable future.
What other argument should I use then? Everyone thinking Mo Williams would push LeBron to the championship, and now the same thought with Shaq? Shaq pushing Wade to a championship? People actually believing James Posey would make the Hornets title contenders from the bench?!? It's all the same theory, bring in a player now that you think can help you win instead of trying to develop young players through the draft. (And I realize that all of these moves were through free agency besides the Shaq trades, but it doesn't take away from the fact these teams would have tried to draft for their needs.)
Jefferson has a lot of skill, he was the centerpiece of the KG deal, and he could be a legitimate all-star. The Celtics would have had a sick lineup if they just brought in Ray Allen and kept all the other guys, not to mention they would have had a deep bench.
Shane Battier averages 10/5/2/1/1
True, he's a great defender... but do you think the grizzles drafted him because they wanted just a "stud" defender? No, he's a bust. Is he a good role player yes, he plays defense... good job.
It was a BAD trade because Battier's defense isn't so great that is outweighs everything that Gay does. And the fact that Gay is a good defender further supports my argument.
I could see if Battier can come in an hold someone to 10 points everytime but thats not the case. His defense, in this case, is overated.
Gay was young and had a high ceiling. Battier was already the player he was going to be.
Exactly. There are soooo many players that don't live up to their potential. I still don't think it was a bad trade, and I think if it presented itself again both teams would do it. Potential to me is almost becoming a dirty word. I would go with a proven player over potential. It is just a matter of opinion and obviously we don't agree.
Haha, true we didn't give him a chance but it's not like this is the first time it has happened. Atlanta trades Pau for Shareef (if you want to talk about a REALLY bad trade....), Phoenix gives up Nate and Rondo, Foye gets swapped for Roy, Mayo traded for Love. I'm not going to pretend I know why Houston traded Gay without playing him first but it didn't make us any worse. True, we didn't see if Gay could make us better but I'm not sure he would have worked on the Rockets. Battier didn't need the ball and Bob Sura and Rafer Alston didn't know how to pass at the time. Gay needs a setup man and Houston had a bad one. The offense honestly usually was Tmac brings it up and takes a contested jumper. Ironically Alston almost completely stopped being a ballhog and taking terrible 3's after he got traded to Orlando. I just wish he played that way when we had him for more than 1 quarter at a time.
i don't think the battier trade was a bad thing. houston thought he was the piece to the puzzle to allow them to win, it wasn't because mcgrady keeps getting injured and they have to live with it. taking gay was a risk for the reason ckowalski said, he had great potential. he's realizing it so it's ok now, but at draft night, they didn't want to risk it so they went for a player that they already knew what they were going to get out of him. in hindsight, it wasn't the best idea, but at the time, it seemed like a good idea and it's just too bad that's the way things worked out.
Anytime you think Shane Battier is the missing peace to the "puzzle", then you're insane.
Battiers defense doesn't outweigh the things Gay does... and it's not close.
I bet the franchise would be a little more optimistic about the season if Gay was on their roster and not Battier.
Why should I tell you the trade was bad if I don't think it was? You believe the trade was bad, I don't agree with you. It's not like Houston just dumped Gay for sh*ts and giggles, the trade obviously had a point to it, just like all the other trades do. I don't believe Gay is the player that would have pushed Houston to win a championship, so I don't think it was a bad trade. Obviously Battier didn't get them a championship either, but injuries undid that team the past 3 years so who knows what would have happened if they had been healthy.
well i'll give you that. now, it's a bad trade. and i didn't read that you didn't say it was bad the first time.the message is just for Howard Trey, because he seems to be acting like Houston was absolutely retarded for doing the trade but there's legitimate reasons for doing it. if you want a bad trade that you absolutely can't deny was bad right from the beginning is vince carter to new jersey. looked bad then, looks bad now and always will be remembered as if not the worst, one of the worst trades ever.
Why would Houston be more optimistic because Gay is on their roster? Because he can score more points than Battier? The Spurs have a hard time cracking 95 points most nights and they won 4 championships with defense.
DRAFTING JRUE HOLIDAY!
personally, i don't think battier was the answer. but that's because i don't think t-mac was the answer for them for their offence. but i understand where they were coming from when they did the move. i think the best i can do is meet you half way. it's obviously a bad trade now, but at the time, it looked ok.
And because Gay is like 22 or something, and because he score more points more effciently. And if thats not enough for you, his trade value is 22x Battier's trade value. No one knows what T Mac can still do, so potentially seeing those two next to each other next year would be a plus. Right now, you guys have no pluses.
Battier is overated.... a bust. He is a great role player, but the fact that he was taken so high and in front of much better people, and didn't become much more than a defensive player makes him a bust.
Rudy Gay> Battier
i'm not going to argue that now it looks bad. but at the time, i'm not a rockets fan so i'm not sure, i'm guessing they thought that t-mac and yao primary offence while they had the rest of the team to play D and get their shots from their spots. they had bonzi wells as well who was good the previous year. so at that moment when they made the trade, it didn't look all that bad to them. my guess is that they thought they weren't willing to risk getting gay, because from what i remember, they had questions about him for some reason so people were starting to get turned off by him (he was originally projected to go #1 i think).
i'm just trying to help the rocket's fans. i understand where you're coming from, that move was dumb, they should've thought about the future. you don't sound like a douche because you're right in that it was a bad move but from what i remember people were getting scared of drafting gay for some reason (i can't remember anymore) so i guess that scared off the rockets and they made that trade. raptors didn't draft him (i'm a raptors fan) but i remember they was initial interest but then they went all european. either way, all i'm saying is that on draft day, there were people scared and didn't want to get burned and made a knee jerking decision, but at the time seemed logical. after the first year, it didn't look too bad. but now, it just looks terrible. it basically only gave them one year of hope.
the best analogy i can give is the araujo draft. raptors should've taken iguodala but they had vince carter at the time so they didn't get him and got a centre (what they needed). obviously they shouldn't have done that with their draft pick but there's at least logic to it. though it brings a tear to my eye to think about it...
When that trade went down I remember thinking "what the hell is Houston thinking?" lol. Everyone except the Rockets knew it was a dumb trade but thats the type of thing we come to expect from the Rockets: solid team but not quite solid enough to make a deep run.
Year Team GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG APG SPG BPG PPG
07–08 Memphis 81 81 37.0 .461 .346 .785 6.2 2.0 1.4 1.0 20.1
Career 618 498 33.5 .447 .388 .751` 4.8 1.9 1.1 1.0 10.0
I just want to say one more thing on this and then I'm done arguing. We are never going to see eye to eye on this so there isn't any point in trying. This is Gay's best statistical season matched up with Battier's career stats Gay gives you 10 more points and 1 more rebound and shoots marginally better in FGs and FTs in this year than Battier does for his career. This is exactly why I would take Battier. I get a player that plays 1st team all NBA defense on a regular basis and all I give up is 10 points and 1 rebound? Done deal. I can find 10 points and 1 rebound on my bench. Battier's impact on the game exceeds Gay's impact on the game, that is why I dont think this was a bad trade.