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Kobe Bryant 2nd Best??

BasketballGuru24
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Kobe Bryant 2nd Best??

How many times have we heard that kobe and michael are the same player........well alot, i see the similarities in their gameplay and their approach to ever season. Michael has accomplished are as followed

Olympic Gold Medals
6-time NBA Champion
6-time NBA Finals MVP
5-time NBA MVP
10 NBA Scoring Titles
14 NBA All-Star Selections
3-time NBA All-Star Game MVP
11 All-NBA Selections
9 All-Defensive Selections
2-time NBA Slam Dunk Contest Champion
NBA Rookie of the Year
NBA Defensive Player of the Year

Kobe is still active and his accomplishments are as follows

4-time NBA champion:
6 NBA Finals appearances:
1-time NBA Finals MVP:
1-time NBA Most Valuable Player:
2-time scoring champion:
11-time NBA All-Star:
11 consecutive appearances (No All-Star game in 1999 due to a league-wide lockout)
3-time NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2009 (shared with Shaquille O'Neal)
11-time All-NBA selection:
9-time All-Defensive selection:
NBA All-Rookie selection
1 Olympic gold medal
1997 slam dunk champ

Michael Jordan has the edge, but if michael jordan is considered the greatest basketball player of all-time.......were does that put kobe bryant, i guy that has a almost similar resume, and has 9 nba records and 2 tied records.......can Kobe Considered the second best after its all said and done ??


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Yea, and then Lebron will

Yea, and then Lebron will dethrone him from the glamourous 2nd place when he retires.

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Lebrons Resume doesn't

Lebrons Resume doesn't amount to this.......lets wait and see what he can do, When he wins a championship i will give him props, but kobe and jordan have some identical accomplishments....i think kobe is going to be top 5 for sure what ever happens

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I don't think so. I think

I don't think so. I think when we look at Kobe's resume. 4 titles- 1 finals MVP. To me, he was the #2 option on that 3-peat Laker team. So, he would need to win a couple more MVP (Which I doubt) and a couple more Finals MVP's to be called the 2nd greatest player ever.

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Shaq Didn't win those awards

kobe Didn't win those awards because shaq was there if you saw what he was averaging.......he would have won

00-01 29ppg 7 reb 6ast
01-02 27 ppg 5 rebs 4ast
02-02 32ppg 5 rebs 5 ast

if thats not worth final MVP that your crazy, but shaqs numbers were even crazy

00-01 30 ppg 15 rebs
01-02 28ppg 12 rebs
02-03 27ppg 15 rebs

they both were considered the best players in the league......players even said that it was unfair the two best players in the league were on the same team......Kobe and shaw were both number won options thats why it was hard to stop them both......you can't be a number 2 option scoring close to 30ppg....not real

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2nd Best Ever?

Are you asking if Kobe is the 2nd best ever? I would have to say no way. Kobe is playing inferior competition to what Michael had. Three numbers to point out. No defensive player of the year awards for Kobe, 8 more scoring titles for MJ, and most importantly notice only 1 finals MVP for Kobe out of 6 finals appearances. When watching this past years playoffs I never got the feeling that Kobe was all that dominate. He seemed to be relying a lot on Gasol, Ariza, Odom, etc to bail him out. Everyone needs help, but when you are the superstar at some point guys should really be relying on you. He got beat on defense in one game by a rookie (Lee) which should have won a playoff game for the other team. Injuries probably saved them as I'm not sure they would have beaten San Antonio or Boston if either team had been healthy. The Lakers won 4-1, but there were quite a few moments where it could have went either way. As far as I'm concerned Orlando really should not have a good enough team to make it to the finals in any normal year.

Looking back to the finals against Boston, Kobe got shut down. MJ never got shut down by anybody. All of the guys that were MJ stoppers did a good job at holding him to maybe 28 or 30 points in a game. You can't let James Posey and Paul Peirce shut you down. Those guys are good defenders, but not all time greats. From top to bottom I believe Boston was an inferior team, but they had the one thing the Lakers did not...heart.

By the same token I shouldn't compare him to MJ, but there are various great players that no one was shutting them down when games were on the line. They didn't allow teams to come back from 20+ points down and get beat. You don't see them just stop shooting in big games as we often see from Bizarro Kobe. I have never seen one player get so much credit for winning one championship series as I have seen with Kobe this past year. He's great, but he wasn't always the best player on the court.

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Haha

Do you really think they would have won without Shaq? No Shaq would mean only 1 title for Kobe. We wouldn't have to worry about him having anymore MVP's because the only guy to ever get one and lose a series was the Logo. Besides that big man helped to get Kobe and a lot of other guys a whole bunch of open shots.

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Yeah

He got shut down verse the Celtics in that finals. I am a fan of Kobe, but I don't think he is number two to Jordan. He is a great player no doubt. Not number two in my eyes. When Jordan played I always knew he was on the court. I have watched a lot of LA games and forgot Kobe was on the court for long stretches. He is great, but does disappear at times. Has had trouble with Paul Peirce his whole career. Peirce has the highest scoring average per game verse LA than any other team throughout his whole career.

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the fact that i don't get is

the fact that i don't get is how kobe can't bail himself out.........kobe bryant is known to be the hardest player to stop playing man to man......he bailed himself out more then once.......the games a team sport he knows when to give it to his teammates.......Few years ago everyone calls him a hog now you say he can't create his own shots.....

I know he doesn't have same accomplishments as Jordan......know does, but if you see kobe is probably the closest to what jordan has done.....how much great players worthy of name mentioning have 3 peated and had a resume like this ??

kobe did everything in that finals against boston......pau was 2 weak for Center.....Odom Was getting man handled by KG.....Luke walton starting??? which led to kobe having to do everything.....Jordan could never win with a team like that .....they had to force &$#%#&@!. he knew that was the only option, but this year with everybody playing their role....they won a championship

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Kobe is not better than Wilt

Kobe is not better than Wilt

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Jordan could have most

Jordan could have most definitely won a championship with that Lakers roster. Don't flatter yourself. Jordan would have averaged 40+ per gae if he had to, they would have won that series. No way he gets stopped by Pierce or Posey and no way does Pierce put up Finals MVP numbers like he did if Jordan played.

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I think kobe is better

I think kobe is better then Wilt ....... After wilts 9th season, he only averaged 20ppg and lower till his retirement in 74........kobe finishing is 13th season, shows no signs of aging averaging more then 24 ppg since 2000.......kobe has accomplished way more then wilt.......besides all the statistical crap......wilt was in a era with few stars, with rules such as goaltending not there.....kobe has way more competition then him......Im not saying Wilt isn't great he is great but you can't over shadow the fact that he only won 2 nba championships......and one finals MVP.......yea he has won 4 mvps, but i remind No competition....here is Wilts Accomplishments Comapre them with kobe

NBA champion (1967, '72);
NBA Finals MVP (1972);
NBA MVP (1960, '66, '67, '68);
All-NBA First Team (1960, '61, '62, '64, '66, '67, '68);
Second Team ('63, '65, '72)
All-Defensive First Team (1972, '73)
Rookie of Year (1960);

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ALL TIME TOP 5: 1) Michael

ALL TIME TOP 5:

1) Michael Jordan

2/3-TIE) Larry Bird/Magic Johnson

4) Kareem Abdul-Jabar

5) Bill Russell

____________________

Reasoning:

1) MJ is just the greatest. You couldn't stop him; all the accolades, the way he revolutionized the game etc. He's the greatest.

2) I put them here because of just how good both were. They were both dominant and all around players. Them playing at the same time hampered the titles each could have achieved. MJ didn't have a Larry/Magic type rival, although he was better than both, which is why he's #1. In 10 years 8 NBA titles were decided between these two guys, with Kareem being the X-Factor in 1985 especially, getting the Final's MVP. McHale and Parish were both good, but neither were near as good as Kareem. B/C of that, Magic having 5 titles to Bird's 3 just doesn't mean anything to me. Bird was league 3 time league MVP '84-86. Johnson got it 3 times as well in '87, '89-90. Both were 12x All-Stars, and both would've had more baring their issues. Bird's back starting bothering him after the '86 season (although not nearly as bad as early 90's when he had to stop). Imagine that. Most guys start peaking around year 7. Bird's back stopped him from whatever "Peak" he may have had. Magic on the other hand starting hitting his peak during this time, gathering his 3 league MVP's and then was cut short on his disease. Things like this are why stats aren't 100% important to me. You have to consider health among other things, but you also can't lean too much into what could've been. There is a balance and I think placing this guy's in a tie for second mesh's with the balance for how good and dominant they were.

4) Kareem. Sky-Hook. That's all you need to know. You couldn't stop him. 6 time champ and a long career. NBA's all time leading scorer. 'Nuff said.

5) Russell. 11 titles. 5 time MVP. 12-time all-star. He dominate his era. How can he not be in the top 5?

I just don't see how you could place anyone above those 5 players. People will differ on Bird/Magic, putting them closer to 4-5 sometimes, but I disagree since they kept the NBA from dying, among the other things I listed.

BasketballGuru24
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Jordan always needed a go to

Jordan always needed a go to guy......he could never really do it with pippen, people told kobe he couldn't do it with Shaq, but he did it........jordan is the greatest, but he hasn't really faced much adversity.....his whole team was amazing .....the bench was deeper then the ocean, they had so much options....they were a offensive threat. We just haven't seen him face times of difficulty....we have see kobe, when he took his team to the finals, with probably a starting line-up that could have been a bench squad

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I agree

Jordan would have kept Peirce's scoring numbers down. BasketballGuru24 you are right about Pau, and Odom getting handled too. I still think Jordan would not have allowed that team to get killed the way they did in that series clincher. I thought Kobe should have done more, he played defeated. If he does that the team will too.

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I think

Shaq would be closer to 2 than Kobe. He caused destruction from the time he stepped in the league. He killed everything and everyone put in front of him.

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One game.....and he

One game.....and he horrible, i know that was the finals and it gave the celtics the title....but you need more then one man to win a championship......Its like going to a gang fight and your the only man on your side, you ain't going to win

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kobe is 32 and shaq is 37

kobe is 32 and shaq is 37 lets compare their stats for when they were both 32

Shaq- 20 ppg 9 rebs
Kobe - 27ppg 5 reb 5 ast

Shaq simply died out after his L.A days.......he was never the same, the same......you have to have a great "career" Shaq is top 10 in my mind but after 31 his numbers dropped and injuries were part of him ....kobe if he continues to show till he retires...don't call me stupid, when kobe finishes his career high

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Yea but Kobe came in from HS.

Yea but Kobe came in from HS.

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Don't you guys see...

Don't you guys see... Comparing ANYBODY to MJ makes the person being compared to him look bad. Kobe has had a GREAT career, but comparing him to MJ makes him look like a chump. LeBron has a chance to accomplish what MJ did STATISTICALLY, but still... Not even his overall impact will be like Mike's. Truth is... Nobody will EVER compare to him. There's MJ AND THEN everybody else below him. Honestly... It doesn't make sense to mention anybody else in the same breath as MJ. Michael Jordan is epic... Like a legend. Today he is still one of the top five most popular athletes in all the world even though he retired some time ago. He set the standard... Is the blueprint... Is the definition of superstar or franchise player. No topping that or even getting close.

Kobe is NOT the 2nd best player of all-time, but I think when his career is all said and done, he'll be considered the 2nd best shooting guard of all-time. He still has 5-6 more years in him, so let's see what he can accomplish in that time.

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He

Started to pass out to all the open shooters to get wins.Shaq was the more dominating player at his peak. I agree Kobe will play better down the stretch he is not carrying Shaqs weight. Wilt, and Magic would still be ahead of him. Magic not the scorer Kobe is, but played a more all around game. I ALSO AGREE COMPARING DUDES TO JORDAN IS NOT FAIR. I always felt bad for Kobe in this situation. I think Jordan was way better. Does not take anything from KB though he is great.

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Paul Pierce probably drops

Paul Pierce probably drops it on LA cuz he's from there...

Whoever said Jordan wouldn't have won with Pau or Odom is dumb. Jordan didn't ever face 'times of difficulty' because he never let his team get down... lol Hasn't he never lost a finals series?

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Him coming from H.S just

Him coming from H.S just shows him more impressive.......and i compared both at 32, kobe is 5 years younger then shaq

Shaq stats have decreased and has been struggling with the injury bug.......he has never played more then 75 games in a season....this year he did it and the last time before this was in 99......

I never said kobe was as good as jordan, but has accomplished close to what jordan has done....and to put in better terms, its the most comparable stats to jordan......i never said kobe is 2nd best but when his career is done i think he will be the 2nd greatest of all time.....

But only time will tell right

BasketballGuru24
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Kareem if anyone deserves to

Kareem if anyone deserves to be the 2nd best if you ask me.....he accomplished to much and played for 20 seasons

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He had a long, healthy

He [Kareem] had a long, healthy career, yes. However, when judging between where to put the Bird/Magic combo and Kareem, I take what the former did for basketball itself. They revived a rivalry. They brought in tons of new fans who never cared for basketball before (similar to what Tiger did to golf; their departure helped open the door for Michael to do what he did in the 90's). They absolutely dominated the era both were healthy in. If each of them had 20 years of health, looking back on their first 10 years, I'd say we'd talk about it more definitively. The reason I give them the benefit of the doubt is b/c they proved they were dominate for 10 years, not just 2-3 like some guys you might make an argument for if you think I'm over-exaggerating their accomplishments.

Bird/Magic came into the league in the 1979-1980 season. Bird won RotY and Magic won a Championship. Could you imagine if the early 90's was only halfway through their career and not the end? If they both left on the 1999-2000 seasons? STUPID HEALTH!!! lol

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Bill Russell is you wanna

Bill Russell is you wanna say winning.....

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please stop this nonsense

First Kobe is actually 30 not 32. Second his numbers/ credentials are nowhere near MJ. and fair to compare because so far MJ has only played in 3 more seasons than Kobe. You should compare these two and Kobe is definitely not top two he is arguably top five or ten and there IS a legit argument whether he is top five.

MJ career numbers: 30.1 ppg 6.2 rpg 5.3 apg 2.3 steals .497 FG % .327 on 3's
Kobe career numbers: 25.1 ppg 5.3 rpg 4.6 apg 1.5 steals .455 FG % .341 on 3's

Really not even close considering Kobe's main claim to being great is being a scorer but he is tenth all time in scoring only one ppg ahead of vince carter and two ppg behing Allen Iverson. So in reality he is not the even the greatest scorer of his generation, Iverson is. Everyone needs to settle down bout Kobe bein G.O.A.T. It's ridiculous.

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What's really cool with my

What's really cool with my top 5 is you can create the REAL "Dream Team" with it. Imagine a team, with all these guys in their prime:

Magic at Point Guard
Jordan at Shooting Guard.
Bird at Small Forward.
Russell at Power Forward.
Kareem at Center.

O. M. G.

I didn't pick them to create a team, even though hit worked out that way.

doubledribbler
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Can't Compare

I think it's too hard to compare big men with guards. Though I think a dominant big man far surpasses a guard in most cases. Guys like Russell, Wilt, Mikan, Shaq, Hakeem, Jabar were all game changers like few others. Everyone should also keep in mind that big men decline faster than guards because of not only their height and weight, but because of all the pounding they take down low. Notice how smart players like Kobe tend to stay away from the basket as much as their athleticism dwindles and as they get older. It's the same reason I hope Dwayne Wade can develop a consistent jump shot or he won't last much longer.

We shouldn't put too much weight in their stats at the same age. I was impressed with Shaq this year. I honestly felt that he was the best player on the Suns team last year which is impressive considering his age and the fact the the team still ran.

If anyone looks back, L.A. actually had a much better team when they played Boston. This past season their bench basically vanished, but in my opinion that shows how weak of a team Orlando really was. The only player that I would say was better this season was Gasol and I think Kobe was pretty much the same, just way more fatigued from all the extra games. Realistically though, you could say that about Howard and Gasol too since they were both in the Olympics.

I don't want this to seem like I'm trying to destroy Kobe. He's great, but it becomes a matter of how great is he? Even a guy like Lebron. I think he's amazing, but when we talk about him winning a championship, most people usually mention who is the number two guy that he needs to win it or they talk about him meeting up with another superstar in free agency to win a championship. It makes you know that the guy is far from that elite status of a guy like Jordan or Oscar Robertson.

doubledribbler
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Garnett

I would make a case for Garnett being a better player than Kobe in his prime. Garnett was amazing when he got into the NBA. He's still a great player. Even though his numbers are down, I don't think that you only measure a player's greatness in numbers. He was just stuck in Minnesota with no one to play with. The best player he got was Marbury in that whole time. He wore himself out trying to carry that whole team and city on his back for years and then being forced to deal with trying to do everything every night and horrible management.

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If your going to look at just skills

Its Lebron James. He has be blessed by the the basketball god with best atributes of every position. I have the utmost confidence that he would be the best player at 4 positions in the NBA right now if he chose to play them, and could probably learn to play an effective center with his size and strength. But career achievements must be brought into play, and as of now Lebron doesnt have enough. But he's not even in his prime yet.... O_O??

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Kobe is 30... Shaq at 30 =

Kobe is 30...

In the regular season...
Shaq at 30 = 28.7 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 3.7 apg
Kobe at 30 = 26.8 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.9 apg

Hehe... But I guess you're right that he would be the most comparable to him statistically, but when all is done, Kobe will still be quite far down below Jordan in the top 50...

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Kobe will end his career as

Kobe will end his career as the 2nd best player ever, i dont like him but he's been the best player this decade and he's just gonna accomplish even more. But I hate when ppl say Mike had an amazing team when you cant name more that 5 players from his first 3 rings... his next 3 were great teams but you cant tell me what many of them did before or after they played with Mike...

P.S. every full season in the 90's Jordan played he won a championship... lol there's no comparing to that

P.S.S he also won defensive player of the year once
AMAZING

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Dennis Hopson,Ron Harper,

Dennis Hopson,Ron Harper, Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong, John Paxson

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Gman1818, Kobe will end

Gman1818,

Kobe will end somewhere around #8 (if he wins 1 more championship) or most likely somewhere between #9-15. He's still not even the best player of his era. Give me The Big Fundamental any day over Kobe.

Same number of rings with less talent. Shaq was better than David Robinson and since then....Ginobli and Parker. Both are great, but not HoFers (Parker, if he keeps getting better, could turn into one). But let's face it. If Ginobli wasn't so injury prone, Duncan would have at least 5 rings, and maybe 6 by now. Shoot, if Robinson doesn't go down in 2002 then does Kobe's team beat out Duncan's? I don't think so.

2x League MVP, 3x Finals MVP (Kobe only has 1 of each)

He makes the All-NBA team and All-Defense team like every year. Now that's dominance on BOTH ends of the court year in and year out!

He doesn't get the praise he should. If he was in LA and Kobe was in San Antonio you would hear stories about Duncan being maybe the 2nd best ever. Calling either of them 2nd best either is very silly and ignorant. It just goes to show you what happens when you have a good player in a giant market.

Tim Duncan is the best player since Jordan and I'd put Kobe 2nd and Shaq 3rd. I can't decide though on between Kobe and Shaq but I think I'll go with that order.

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Tim Duncan

Is so horribly effeicient its scary. He just plays basketball right and has 4 championships to show for it, with lesser talent for most of them. (Shaq>>>Parker>Gasol IMO) Best PF of all Time hands down no question.

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Ron Harper wasnt on the

Ron Harper wasnt on the first 3 "Knicksboy34"

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Jordan's Competition is way way way overrated.

The NBA was a Top heavy, big man dominated game in the 90's with 2 elite wing players of the generation. Jordan, and the only person in the NBA that could guard Jordan.... Scottie Pippen. And as I recall, Jordan never won a chip without Pippen. Pippen is one of the best perimeter defenders of all time, and he was on Jordans side. What other guards could even keep up with Jordan at that juncture? I can name at least 10 wing players that are bigger, more athletic, and/or a better player than any other wing in the NBA in the 90's. Joe Johnson, Ron Artest, Dwayne Wade, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Richardson, and now Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant, Danny Granger, Josh Smith . Seriously, who in the 90's could guard MJ, 6'3 Dumars, 6'3 Starks, Thunder Dan Majerle, Eddie Jones? The 90's were about PG's and big men. The greatest decade for centers of all time hands down, which is why in my opinion Hakeem Olajuwan is so damn underrated. (Best center skill set wise ever-debate for another thread) But Jordan was so above and beyond the class of the the perimeter players that it wasn't fair. The athleticism in the NBA now is at an all time high, and while the bigman has died out i will argue that the SF, SG, and PG positions are as healthy as they've ever been, led by Lebron james, who will win at least on defensive player of the year award, several MVP's and multiple championships. You know why? Because Lebron James is the most natural blessed basketball player ever seen. If he gains a consistant jumpshot, Its lights out for the NBA.

But to respond to the topic, you can argue Kobe's position all you want,because he deserves to be mentioned in that special class of player. But with players like Russell, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Jordan, Big O, Wilt, and Shaq there are other argument to be made.

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Just cause wings are bigger

Just cause wings are bigger doesn't make them better defenders...
Mike championship guarded by James Worthy and Byron Scott, next ring Clyde Drexler, Next ring Kevin Johnson (who played very good against him) next ring the Glove Gary Payton and numerous double teams and the next 2 it was Byron Russel a very underrated defender.. and now a days when Kobe gets these big time defenders he can dump it off to more options then Michael had..

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Wings now are more athletic than wings then

James Worthy was aging and Byron Scott couldnt keep up. Clyde Drexler had also lost a step, Kevin Johnson is 4 inches shorter and the glove is a point guard as well. Byron Russell < or = Bruce Bowen defensively. None of the players had the length or strength of the player that kobe got doubled teamed by on the regular. The fact of the matter is that the 90's didnt have anyone that matched up defensively with Jordan except for Pippen, who will unfortunately will always be under Jordans shadow.

sameolG
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Aeropogus, i was just going

Aeropogus, i was just going off of skill wise, if we go off career numbers and accomplishments then Tim Duncan is top 5

Michael.S.
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Honestly it is dumb to argue

Honestly it is dumb to argue who is better Kobe or Timmy they are 2 completely different positions and the greatest at their positions of their generation

Meditated States
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Tim Duncan

Best power forward ever. Should have been a center, but Shaq makes these cats run for the hills from that position.

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To Mkadoza

Do you remember the teams that Jordan used to go up against? The Detroit Bad Boys, the Larry Bird led Boston Celtics, the Showtime Lakers...The teams that the Bulls beat would have destroyed the majority of recent championship teams. Pat Riley's Knicks would have destroyed either of the teams we just saw in the championship. I don't want to try to diminish the recent championships, but look at some of these teams...

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/champions.html

As far as players go, the guys you named might be bigger and more athletic than what Jordan faced, but it doesn't make them better. You named Joe Johnson, Ron Artest, Dwayne Wade, Shawn Marion, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Jason Richardson, and now Rudy Gay, Kevin Durant, Danny Granger, Josh Smith. Jordan would have destroyed them all. Most of those guys don't even play defense. You should be embarrassed for making that list. The only guy who's been a great defender during his whole career that you mentioned, Jordan would have easily gotten into his head and out the game. I can't even believe you mentioned super soft guys like Vince and McGrady and then a bunch of guys who have done absolutely nothing as a way of saying that the players going against Kobe are so much better. Out of all those guys only ONE (Wade) has a championship.

Let's put it this way. Let's put Hedo, Pietrus, a rookie (Courtney Lee) and occasionally JJ Reddick on MJ in the finals. He averages 40 a game. The series gets swept. The Lakers team that we just watched...if Gasol had gotten more touches, which he probably should have, he could have been named Finals MVP, but the league would not have ever let that happened and we know that.

Mkadoza
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Do you remember

That when those teams were the best the years were 1984-1991? Do you remember that Showtime and Larrys boys were past they're prime? The Bulls never beat the best teams of the 80's when they were in their prime. Remember Dominique was getting old too? Do you remember that Pippen was on Jordans team? Pat Riley's teams would not have destroyed either of the teams. The NBA was based on big bullying frontcourts, and yet no one had players to match up with jordan and Pippen, hence 6 championships. Oakley couldnt have guarded Rashard Lewis or Hedo depending on who they played at the four, and they could have exploited that mismatch for at least 5 three pointers a game, and lord knows Starks would choke, or would be shut down by 2 guards 3-4 inches taller then him. Lets put it this way for the Bulls/magic comparision. Why wouldnt you have Lee, Peitrus and Lewis guard Jordan. Why even have JJ or Hedo on them? THAT would be stupid. Next we use the advantages of having 2 complete point guards with very contrasting styles, and a point forward like hedo would match up with Pippen. Then we let Howard and whatever post player you want go at him, Grant or Rodman.

You misunderstood my point. I meant everyone but Jordan and Pippen, because the Bulls had the best two perimeter defenders and best two wings of the 90's. The wings I named are better than any of the wings in the NBA when Jordan was winning championships. You argued Kevin Johnson did a good job on Jordan. I'd argue Carmelo did a good job on Kobe last year. Stop calling Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady soft. Its an antiquated notion thats just stupid. McGrady is often injured, but Carter has done nothing but average 23 points a game since hes stepped in the league with one of the most diverse offensive skill set of anyone in the league. For all the people Carters dunked on how is he soft. Danny Granger and Kevin Durant are more offensively proficient, Smith and Gay are more athletic. There were no Ron Artests or Dwayne Wade's or Lebron James, or Carmelo Anthonys for the Bulls to guard. Just let the big frontcourt battle with all the Hall of Fame centers and let Jordan do work.

NBA.com speaks to my point in your hyperlink to Jordans first championship,

The Lakers were outmanned, however, by the younger, more athletic Bulls. Wherever Johnson went, he was hounded by Jordan and Pippen, who combined to pressure his every step and harassed him into 22 turnovers. The Bulls set five-game Finals records by shooting .527 from the field and .826 from the line; accumulating 139 assists and 49 steals; and committing only 66 turnovers, while limiting Los Angeles to 458 points, a record low for a five-game Finals series.

Since youre so critical, name the best wings of the 90's in your expert opinion after Jordan and Pippen and we will match them up skillset to skillset.

The 90's were not the 80's of the NBA, and the fact that Jordan was there seems to make people forget that. But the truth of the matter is that the NBA in the 90's was like the early 2000's, just without a "Jordan" to carry the sport.

JoeWolf1
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Mkadoza

i hear you doubledribbler, just because you weren't old enough to watch baskeball when Jordan was in his prime ( which im assuming is the case, because your arguement doen't make much sense if you've seen both eras) Yes, this era has some great guards, but Drexler, Wilkins, Cooper, Thomas, Stockton, and many many more and Jordan tore up players like Kobe, Iverson, Vince, Tmac when he was in his mid 30's and they were up and comers, Jordan was a master of the game and Kobe is great too, but the poor guard quality in the 90's is outrageous

Mkadoza
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Name the many, many more and I'll believe you

And leave point guards out of this. I said the ninties had lots of great PGs and big men. But wings were the weakness in the 90's and that a fact. Youre saying Jordan tore up todays stars when they were young... well duh. Magic and Larry, and Isaiah stomped out the Bulls when Jordan was young. They're young! I grew up watching Jordan in his prime, and crying my eyes out cause the Knicks werent good enough, and Glenn Rice and Big Dog, but I wasnt a Jordan jocker like the rest of the freakin world. I watch the NBA, the whole NBA, and theyre were obvious discrepancies between the talent levels at certain positions. Now the wings and point guards are much stronger while the big man has lost a lot of talent. But the 90's didnt have a player who matched up with Jordan, except Pippen.

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?

Yall are comparing apples and oranges. You cant compare or measure Kobe success to a Center or a PF, since he doesnt play those positions. I think Kobe is going to be a top 2 player when he retires, he has been successful at all levels of basketball.

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