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You dont have to be a Dominate freshman to be a Future NBA star/Franchise player

the lake show
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You dont have to be a Dominate freshman to be a Future NBA star/Franchise player

Just because Barnes/other freshmen aren't dominating in year one doesn't mean They are not future franchise players/All stars. I think all these freshmen who come in from day one and dominate has cause some people to forget that alot of franchise players dont come in from day one and dominate. maybe its because alot of y'all are young and dont remember when players used to stay in college for more then a year and maybe those who are older have forgotten

Pat Ewing 12ppg 7reb

Grant Hill -11ppg 5reb

Paul Peirce 12ppg 5reb

Vince Carter 7ppg 3reb

Reggie Miller 4ppg 1reb

Ray Allen 12ppg 4reb

Charles Barkley 12ppg 10reb

Larry bird- couldn't find his freshman stats at indiana but i do know he transferred

just a few of many examples.

It doesn't mean these Freshmen will be as good as these guys either but its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to early to predict if they will or not


Hale
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Larry Bird didn't have a

Larry Bird didn't have a freshman season. He transferred before practices started at Indiana and then sat the year out for Indiana State. He lit it up the next year as a soph.

the lake show
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I was thinking he didnt play

I was thinking he didnt play but i wasn't sure

Mr. 19134
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The same can be said of NBA

The same can be said of NBA Rookies like Turner...Not every future rookie comes in and averages 20 PPG or close to it. Manu came in with professional experience and averaged 7 his rookie year. Look at Kevin Martin he was bad for like 3 seasons before busting out. Deron Williams only averaged 10 as a rookie. Rudy gay 10. Even as far back as Gary Payton when he was the 2nd pick after being Senior came in the league and averaged like 4 PPG his rookie year. Some players develop different from others.

Look at Mayo his scoring has gone down since his rookie year. My point is that it is so hard to project some of these things you have to look at work ethic, skill level, and commintent beyond stats.

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So you have to become a

So you have to become a Celtic to win a title if you don't dominate your college year. Got it.

the lake show
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Huh?..i said that was a few

Huh?..i said that was a few examples which means there are more that weren't celtics. got it good:)

Mr. 19134
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Churchboy's Attempted Celtic

Churchboy's Attempted Celtic Jokes Based On 3 Out Of 8 Players having Played For Boston Despite Stanford Never Mentioning Anything About Equating It To Winning A Title = Epic Fail

BKKnicksfan
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You don't have to dominate as

You don't have to dominate as a freshman but I'm sure all of those guys showed off some tools to make people believe they would eventually be stars at the next level.

I'm also sure alot of those guys had better college upperclassmen ahead of them who scored. Not all but alot.

the lake show
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i know thats why i put the

i know thats why i put the smile face

the lake show
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There are some other players

There are some other players who didn't have better players on there team who ended up being stars. And Barnes has showed glimpses which is why GM's still have him in high re-guard. He is not the first Freshman to ever play at the level he has. Some have played the same and worst and ended up being better. Reggie Miller did not show future all star ability. Ray Allen didn't look like a future HOF.

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So you're agreeing with me in

So you're agreeing with me in the fact, some of these guys shown glismps that make GM's say "There's something there" with all those players you listed. All of them were top 12 picks if I'm correct.

Back then, not alot of freshman came out of college and if they did, weren't picked as high. So most of those guys had time to develop. Now a days, if you don't come out after that 2nd season, FANS think their something wrong with the players. I don't know how GM's think.

Patrick Ewing stayed in college too long, he was supposed to go in the NBA a year earlier but didn't. It hurt his NBA career because he could he had too much on the legs by then.

the lake show
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HUH(the Pat Ewing thing)..one

HUH(the Pat Ewing thing)..one season in college is not gonna shorten you're career by more than half a season if you dont get injured while in college. That's only 30 something more games. He came out when he felt he was ready just like many other guys did back int he day. It might have helped his career because he helped him to become a better player. More young guys ( I'm talking to you Anthony Randolph, Chris Wilcox) should have stayed longer to become better players instead of coming out early. The mind set is different for players today, they want the money and fame now and don't wanna wait and are more worried about getting injured (although history has shown very very few players have had career ending injuries while going back to college

Yea i think they were all top 10 picks but that's because they stayed and got better. I doubt if anyone of them would have went as high as they did if they came out after one year, but its hard to go back to college when you know you are gonna be a top 3 pick

Mr. 19134
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Oh course Knicksboy those

Oh course Knicksboy those players showed flashes but almost every NBA prospect shows flashes of something for them to be considered an NBA prospect. And it is a proven fact that players who leave after their sophomore season wind up having the most success in the NBA.

Watching Barnes play tho i just don't see the same player who dominated High School. It looks like the weight he put on is slowing him down. He is not moving nearly as fluid as he use to move and his dribbling moves are not getting him anywhere in college. I was shocked to notice these subtle failures. I think in a workout setting other players are going to easily outshine him like both of the Jones and even somebody like Jordan Hamilton. i still really like Barnes as a prospect and think he is a top 5 pick but should not be a lock for the top 3 at all.

Harrison is going to string together some very nice games for UNC coming up tho so i'm not down on him I just had a moment of clarity watching him last weekend the he is not what people thought he would be.

the lake show
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I wonder how much is

I wonder how much is confidence now. That plays a very very big part in how good a player plays. He obviously has the skills but i think after not living up to expectations so far he doesn't have the same confidence that he used to have. I don't see many if any moving past him in workouts because he has the tools to do great in the workouts they have ( don't forget top picks usually dont play against the other top picks, its just dribbling around cones and v cut to a spot and shoot, etc)

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Oh course Knicksboy those

Oh course Knicksboy those players showed flashes but almost every NBA prospect shows flashes of something for them to be considered an NBA prospect. And it is a proven fact that players who leave after their sophomore season wind up having the most success in the NBA.

- I have to see that list because honestly....I don't believe that.

Like I said Lake show, it was out of the norm going into the NBA as a freshman or sophomore before the late 80's-early 90's. Isiah Thomas was the first non-senior taken in the top 3 in 1981. Alot of guys just didn't go. Even Len Bias was considering going but didn't.

Patrick Ewing had alot of stress on the legs prowling around in college. He had tons of success but he put alot of pressure on the legs...throw in the first couple seasons where he carried the Knicks AND played tough big men, he was done by 1997. Not done...but his career was slowing down. Bill Simmons' book of basketball and the Reggie Miller 30 for 30 talks about it.

Mr. 19134
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The article I originally read

The article I originally read was on ESPN about how college sophomores are the safest picks in the draft but I couldn't find that one again a quick google search allowed me to find this article backing up the same conclusion although it was not the focus you can see from the stats that sophomores are usually pretty squared away .http://basketball-statistics.com/collegeexperience.html

the lake show
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Ewing's legs broke down

Ewing's legs broke down because that's what happens with big men. You don't come out of college after a year or challenge the NBA age rule because you think its gonna make you're career longer. These are not facts as to why his legs didn't last long as far as going back to college so its not really worth arguing about since there's no proof one way or the other. Bill Simmons is not a doctor and he did not do a physical on Ewing to know why he didn't last as long as he did so his opinion holds as much weight as yours or mine on this subject

Players didn't go to the NBA back then because they felt they were not ready after one year. Back then The NBA was a man's game with a bunch of men playing. These days alot of guys on team's are the same age as some player in college. Also back then you had to earn you're way more so then you do now and players didn't wanna come in and just sit on the bench they wanted to make sure they were ready to contribute. It was more than just a pay check for alot of the players and they had more honor for the game

BKKnicksfan
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Ewing played at least 32

Ewing played at least 32 games a year and played 37 games in 3 of his 4 seasons. He averaged 28, 30, 31 and 30 mpg in his career in college. If you don't wanna say he didn't break down because of it, that's you man. That's alot for a big man.

By age 30, Ewing logged in like 21000 mintues not counting playoffs. Just my opinion, that hindered him.

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Bird averaged 33 , 13 & 4 his

Bird averaged 33 , 13 & 4 his freshman year. He left after his junior year.

raybeas
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Ewing got old

because he got old, not becasue he played one more year of college. Are you saying he would have had a better career if he would have played 82 pro games at 21 (or whatever) instead of 37 college games? Yes, his stats would be one year better, but would some magical switch have gone off that made him much, much better ,or not break down when he did?

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All I meant was, the other

All I meant was, the other guys you put never won titles. Not a big deal.

BKKnicksfan
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because he got old, not

because he got old, not becasue he played one more year of college. Are you saying he would have had a better career if he would have played 82 pro games at 21 (or whatever) instead of 37 college games? Yes, his stats would be one year better, but would some magical switch have gone off that made him much, much better ,or not break down when he did?

Ewing started playing ball in the NBA at 23. Yea, he didn't need the extra seasons IMO. Like I said, guys have better or worse careers based on players who played with them during that time. It didn't help Ewing that he had alot of miles on his legs THEN played in the 80s where there were dozens of big men who challenged him night in and night out. Some were smarter then him, some were more atheltic. I'm sure you get the picture.

Hale
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Basterdinabasket

No, he didn't. He didn't play as a freshman. He started playing as a sophomore, was drafted as a junior and returned for his senior season.

Im Your Father
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It's ludicrous to think that

It's ludicrous to think that playing 35 or so more games in college had a significant impact on the longevity of his career. That's not even half of an NBA season.

BKKnicksfan
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That's where everyone is

That's where everyone is getting it wrong...I never said it impacted his career to the point it hindered it. I meant he loses some off the legs by the time he was in the NBA.

kanyedabest
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god knicksbot stfu......

god knicksbot stfu...... idiot

BKKnicksfan
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Who's knicksbot?

Who's knicksbot?

omar dayze
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i kno its irrelevant but

i kno its irrelevant but noone picks up on this and it annoys me... the word is dominant. you can dominate, you cant be dominate. sorry people but i bit my tongue on this in alot of posts but i cant any more

Im Your Father
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Well, since you want to be

Well, since you want to be the spelling/grammar Nazi,

I thought maybe I'd go ahead and edit your post for you. It ought to be:

I know it's irrelevant, but no one picks up on this and it annoys me...the word is dominant. You can dominate, you can't be domininate. Sorry people, but I bit my tongue on this in alot of posts but I can't anymore.

1. You didn't capitalize the first word.

2. There is no "W" on the end of "Kno."

3. There should be an apostrophe in "its."

4. "Noone" is generally two words.

5. You forgot to capitalize "you."

6. There should be an apostrophe in "cant."

7. You forgot to capitalize "sorry," and there should be a comma after "people."

8. There should be an apostrophe in the second "cant."

9. There is no period at the end of the sentence.

Frankly, this isn't english class, and as long as you can understand someone, it doesn't really matter if they spell things perfectly. But if you want to be a dick about spelling, you should probably make sure you at least have some semblence of correct syntax.

RUDEBOY_
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Ewing could've had better

Ewing could've had better numbers,his freshman year..But coach Thompson wanted him to focus more on defense and rebounding...I love hearing people talk about that championship game in 1982..How coach Thompson told Ewing to try to block every shot to put fear into the North Carolina players...I think he had about 3 or 4 goal tending calls during the 1st 10 minutes of the game...

If Ewing had came out after his freshman year, he would''ve went number 1...The Lakers had the top pick in 1982..It would've been interesting to see how Ewing career would've turned out playing with Magic..And being tutored by Kareem...

His sophomore year, he would've been number 2 behind Ralph Sampson..

And if he came out in 1984 he would've went 2nd behind Olajuwon....

Rico
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Different era

Back in the day most freshman weren't expected to play big minutes, not even blue chip freshman. There was just more depth to the game.

Imagine the senior class we would have today if everyone stayed 4 years in school. Kevin Love, Evan Turner, Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, JJ Hickson, Blake Griffin, Eric Gordon, and James Harden,

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It's an inexact science. For

It's an inexact science. For the most part its just all projections, some are wrong some are right. College only gives us an indication of what may happen in the pros. How many of us would've ever thought Wes Matthews would be getting major min in the pros as a rookie and now as a second year player? He's not a freak athlete, maybe a lil below average to average by nba standards, not long arms, not really a 3-pt marksman, but hey, he made it and he's in there. There's plenty of examples both ways, but no one really knows, thats why its fun to come on places like here and debate, discuss, and have great discussions.

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Dwyane Wade...enough said.

Dwyane Wade...enough said.

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im your father

hahaha sorry professor..but im not a grammer nazi. just think theres a huge difference in the usage of the words 'dominate' and 'dominant'... much more so than missing out an apostrophe or a capital letter. but maybe its an americanism. its just one of those things that got to me. you never have something that randomly p!sses you off? theres no need to bust the word syntax out on me jesus man

the lake show
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No rude boy Ewing would not

No rude boy Ewing would not have went number one. After reading this i talked to my uncle and He said worthy and Cummings where without a doubt the top two players with the most potential at the time. Ewing would have went some where around 10 or lower because he was good but he wasn't ready and team's didn't put alot of stock in very young guys at that time. They were more into what you could do asap.

You're looking at in hindsight, if people knew who would become what then alot of guys would have went second round or undrafted

the lake show
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Terry C...this site wont let

Terry C...this site wont let me put his last name lol

BKKnicksfan
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To be honest, Worthy didn't

To be honest, Worthy didn't have the most potential, as proof of the fact Dominque Wilkins had a better career IMO. Worthy had a MONSTER championship game ( I believe he had 23-17) and it was a lock back then that he was going number one. I do believe Ewing would have went 2nd or at worst 5th beacuse he was a beast defensively. Alot of players were picked on defense back then. Also, players went to camps back then and he would have shined.

In 1983, He would have gone 2nd to Sampson because that draft's top 10 looked rather weak.

In 1984, He would have went 2nd to Portland.

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