Will The Heat Ever Win The Way They Are Now?
I called it, Mavs in 6. I was telling the guys, Miami might never win. The very thing that makes them great, lebron & wade, is the same thing that will kill them every year. Everyone wants to compare these guys to Jordan. No one is Jordan and no one will ever be Jordan. Besides, if Jordan played with another Jordan....would they have been good? Nope. Every Batman needs a Robin.
Hey Bro. You remember game 2? Yeah, Miami couldn't close. That could have been a win
Remember game 4? Yeah, Miami lost by 3 while James only scored 8. That could have been a win.
They could have swept if they closed correctly so don't sit there and act like Miami completely failed and they stood no chance because that is simply ridiculous.
To be honest, I hope they do win. But, they have a lot of work to do. Both those guys needs to ball in their hand to be great. Will one of them take a back seat to the other? I don't think so. I'm not saying Miami didn't have a chance, they did, but like you said, they didn't do what was needed to close out the games.With sports, you never know when you will get another chance. It just doesn't feel like Miami, at least Lebron and Wade, felt that way. It seems like they have the feeling they will be there every year.
Relax guy they would never sweep the Mavs.
Just because they had the lead in those games doesn't mean they should've won them.
Closing games out is a huge part of being a champion.
Okay, now I know what you mean. I honestly do not see LeBron wanting to take a backseat. If anybody would, it would be Wade. I just don't believe Wade trusts LeBron enough to let James take the lead. Especially after what we saw in the Finals.
A bunch of would've, should've and could've...
IF you want to go there, I "could" say that the Mavs "could've" closed the Heat out in five... I mean, because game three was right there for the taking.
These are the greatest athletes in the world... The greatest teams in the world. The margin of error is small. What? Do you think Miami just didn't close out those games and respond during the pressure moments because they didn't want to? You have to give Dallas their credit. They WON this series. It wasn't given to them. There's a reason they've done this consistently throughout the playoffs this season.
It's about time for people to start giving Dallas credit for winning instead of focusing on Miami for losing.
If your take away from the Heat losing one of the closest final series ever and this in the first year of a completely head-to-toe revamped roster is that the Heat can never win, then what do you think are the chances of the teams that didn't make the finals? I guess you must be writing in Dallas as the champions for the next five years. Seriously, the Heat are the favorites going into next season.
Take game six, if the Heat don't shoot terribly from the free throw line and the Mavs don't shoot incredibly from three, that game goes to the Heat. As Tongue said above, look at how close game 2 and 4 were. This series could have easily gone to the Heat. Also the Heat will probably get better. If they started the series over right now, the Heat would probably be better. At the very least Eric S realized that he shouldn't play Bibby at all. It only took him six games to realize that. Instead he started a guy who got him 19 points and 5 assists over five games while playing terrible defense. That's 20 minutes a game of getting just nothing out of one of your players. That decision probably cost the Heat the championship right there.
Dallas beat Miami but it was because, for the most part, Miami let down and thought they could just go with the flow and win. They were overconfident. Every team they played had a glaring weakness. 76ers were not talented enough. Celtics were not athletic enough. Bulls were a 1-man show. The Dallas Mavericks were a complete team that had inside scoring, perimeter shooting, good on-ball defenders, and a zone defense that Miami could not score against.
Dallas beat Miami.
this is a moronic statement for the following reasons a draft picks- the heat dont have them- b - most of thier players are leaving because they are free agents- c how does a team without draft picks and facing most of their team leaving get better? it doesnt. I suppose the 33d pick in the draft is the savior?
All I'm saying is.. don't write off the Heat this early. They could have easily won the championship this season and kanyedabest (our own little turrets kid that puts out all kinds of cuss threads) would have probably killed himself.
It's their first year together
When you have 3 of the top 20 players in the league on your team and they are all relatively young, they will continue to improve and mesh better together. They learn eachothers tendancies to a point that it becomes easier to know what eachother want to do. To say they aren't going to be any better is "moronic"
You're telling me nobody is going to want to sign with Miami for the MLE? Veterans that can still play aren't going to sign a vet's minimum? C'mon son..
Listen I am no Heat fan mainly because of this "Heatles" crap the NBA let happen. But in the first year of playing together these guys ALMOST won it all. Now I know that almost only counts in horse shoes and handgrenades, but its still saying something. I heard a quotes from Jim Rome saying that this was a wasted year for the Heat....I disagree. I never thought they would make it this far with the rag-tag bench they had. But they did. And they beat some of those teams in deciding fashion as well. Every other team in the Eastern conference and the NBA for that matter had better watch this offseason very carefully cause i think that this Miami team was a few plays away from being the best. That being said, "Losers always complain about doing their best, winners go home and F@#! the prom queen".
The Heat are the favorites next season, but I don't think this team's window is as wide open as most think it is.
Wade is closing in on 30 and he's an old and banged up 30. He's had a significant knee and shoulder injury, and seems to get injured every year. LeBron is an old 26... He's played big minutes and a signifcant role since the first day he stepped foot on a NBA floor. He looked like an old man this series with all of the ice on his knees.
They have three players taking up the bulk of their salary, so who they'll be able to sign via free-agency will always be limited. A lot depends on the new CBA.
I find it kind of funny how effective zone is in the NBA when here in Australia it gets torn apart because we grow up playing against it and figured out its secrets. Once teams make adjustments for zones they'll cease being effective, and real man-to-man D will once again be the highest standard.
these players FOR THE MAJORITY are already playing at the top of thier game and knowing each others tendencys is not going to change the players that they are already, if your trying to say the lebron or wade are going to change thier game to accomadate the other more we dont know that as a fact and if they do change thier game we cannot assume that the results will be for the better. you can keep the MLE getting mike millers doesnt win championships getting a point guard or center worthy of starting on any othe nba team does. the last time I looked it basketball was still five on five not three on five.
the heat have only six players under contract for next year. tye big plus miller haslem and anthony. everyone else will need a payraise i doubt anyone will return for the min salary. also with the new cba there might not be a MLE next year. and with a lower cap. they might have to fill theyr roster with Dleaguers and undrafted free agents. however they can always buy a draft pick but i dont know if any team would want to make a deal with them.
The zone is effective in the NBA because of how few effective shooters there are. There are very few pure shooters in the league who can truly exploit a zone who aren't also at least partial defensive liabilities. There are also very few big men who are skilled passers. Entry into the high post and running the offense through your center is often a way to attack a zone, but the overall skill level in the NBA has decreased while sheer athleticism and size are at a premium.
Silence is golden, take the advice of your display name.. Please.
Insane. If you think that Miami won't be right back up there again. Who's going to stop them? The Knicks? Lol you all are pretty delusional. Dallas beat Miami, but Miami over came every team in the East. Other teams will get better, and so will they. They formed just this year and almost won it all. Don't be delusional into thinking that the Heat won't be able to pull some players to patch some of the weaknesses they have inside or out. You guys are funny.
No, Miami needs a center and another point guard, and really some more depth on the perimeter.
They are running with the rag-tag center brigade of Joel Anthony, Big Z, Jamal Magliore and Eric Dampier. They have a future servicable backup in Dexter Pittman, but he and Joel Anthony are still not good enough. Nazr Mohammad would be a good option, but he want's to resign in OKC. That is their biggest hole to me and I don't see the draft being much help this year, unless a guy like Jordan Williams would be available at #31.
Bring over Patrick Beverly and draft a PG at #31. These are not things that will make them a lot better, but this Miami team is a long way from having an actual team built around the Big 3. This is at least a start and a cheap one at that. They don't have a lot of assets to trade nor a lot of money to bag a big name FA.
I hate how some people have a now or never mentality. The mavs will be back next year with a healthy caron butler, the lakers will be back and so will the Heat. The Heat were 2 wins away from a championship and can only improve barring injury, of course they can win
Don't be delusional into thinking that the Heat won't be able to pull some players to patch some of the weaknesses they have inside or out. as the subject title says
tongue out like 23 - it sounds more like you have your head out the window wagging your tongue like a DOG if you want to start personal attacks.
They'll bring guys in, but they won't be big names. Unless they go mad scientist and try to get Greg Oden.
lets be serious tongueoutlike 23... closing is EVERYTHING. IF is huge. IF dallas were to shoot like theyre capable, the way they did in games 5 and 6, for the ENTIRE series, then they wouldve swept the heat. "ifs" are complete garbage in this argument. sorry
as far as the heat, as much as i really despise them, they still have an opportunity. mind you, chicago, orlando and possibly even boston wont be easy to take down again. but the heat needa pat riley, phil jackson type of coach that will be able to handle the egos of lebron and wade, as well as get the best out of those kinds of players. they need a pg also. i think bibby either walks or retires, chalmers is garbage.he got worked by anyone and everyone he guarded and he didnt have to go up against any elite pg in his prime. joel anthony is good enough to help the heat get to the playoffs and have some sort of effect but they need a better big. a dalembert, camby kind of player to really shore up their interior to go with their great perimeter defense. at least one guy they can depend on to score some points off the bench.
on a side note, for all the "team comradry" they heat have, i think its effing ridiculous that bosh has his own separate press conference from lebron and wade. i think that bosh is kind of soft on the court, but as a basketball player, i can say that if i were to get to the nba finals and lose i would be torn up. i played in a competitive adult league and lost a playoff game and was ready to lose it. anyway its ridiculous. i wonder what goes on in his head. he looked defeated, hurt, all those things whereas lebron and wade looked arrogant even in the face of defeat. i know theyve both been there before but they didnt look like they had lost then nba finals. i know that lebron is going to have a very VERY long summer. people will really break down all of what happened. i honestly hope that this humbles lebron and makes him become a better player and maybe even help him establish some sort of killer instinct or cold blood or something. i feel like chris bosh will be the one to go if anyone goes anywhere.
"tongue out like 23 - it sounds more like you have your head out the window wagging your tongue like a DOG if you want to start personal attacks."
And what exactly does that sound like?
and I know as usual I will get torn apart in my statement here but the vast majority of teams either are developing a PF or already have one, maybe they are a little less talented but I dont see anyone breaking the bank for bosh. bosh isnt going to get you to the playoffs alone- hes too soft and basing it upon this years play he is no amare.
"hes too soft"
Hmm... I've heard this somewhere.. Oh yeah!! Dirk Nowitzki! The current NBA Champion..
Where else?... Pau Gasol! A 2-Time NBA Champion!
You know what all three of them have in common? (Aside from being labeled soft)
They all lost once in the Finals before coming back and winning it all and getting rid of the "soft" label. Hmm.. how about that?
because its flapping- if you were half as smart as you are egotistical and loquacious I am positive you would win a nobel prize.
Hahaha well, I appreciate your compliment. Sadly, personal attacks simply mean you lost the debate.
Don't forget David Robinson was soft too....until he won 2 rings
The soft label comes and goes when a player wins a championship. I don't pay too much attention to it.
so I guess you lost first second point until bryan colangelo became g.m under bosh they didnt make the playoffs the players mentioned above all were good enough to make thier teams make the playoffs bosh wasnt.
In his last 3 games against Boston in the play-offs, he was a combined 9-37 from the field. Yes, he may have had too much of a role early the year which lead to his knee issues. Or, we can look at the fact that he has knee issues and tends to die down as the season goes on. Regardless, Amare Stoudemire may be better than Chris Bosh, but I do not see him doing much more than Bosh did in these play-offs or in this series. Not to mention, I still think Chris Bosh is a better rebounder and defender than Amare. Finally, neither one is guarding Dirk Nowitzki with any success.
Bosh never had a team good enough to make the playoffs. Don't compare Bosh's Toronto teams to Dirk's Dallas teams.
Dirk constantly had All-Star PGs like Harris, Kidd, and Nash.
Not to mention, Nash is an MVP.
He always had scorers like Jerry Stackhouse, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker, Jason Terry, Josh Howard, Keith Van Horn, Shawn Marion, Caron Butler, Drew Gooden.
Who has Bosh had that is a household name? Aside from Bargnani, who is a household name for the wrong reasosn.
Dude, that whole if Jordan played with Jordan thing, they would not win a championship, what are you basing this on? I know this team is a failure in everyones eyes for not winning this year, including mine, but they got to the Finals in their first year. Not only that, they took it too 6 games. I agree wih Indiana that there window may not be that huge (definitely not the 7-8 years they were claiming, that was just ridiculous), but this is year 1 with a team of guys who are still relatively in their prime as players. I do not think it is as much of a problem as people seem to think it is, and believe that if you were in the same situation as Pat Riley, you make minor changes and keep the major pieces intact. They lost this year, but I do not know where people seem to get that this team will NEVER win, I think that is just being incredibly hasty and probably just wanting that to be true.
Stop arguing with this guy, he is uttering complete lunacy and backing nothing up. It is pointless.
True. No use in this.
For the record, dirk was unfairly called soft. hes one of only 4 or 5 players to average 25+ ppg and 10+ rpg in the playoffs. his team let him down in 06 and this year they stepped up to the plate. also dont compare bosh to dirk. although dirk definitely had the better supporting cast than bosh by a landslide, he still delivered. lebron and wade are proof that just because you have the ability to hit the big shot doesnt mean youll just make it because youre better than everyone else. dirk took and made his shots in all 4th quarters of this series. hes not soft and hasnt been.
TOL23, u sound like a guy who can't take being wrong in any form...Wade is getting older and he's looking more and more like damaged goods, Bosh actually looked very banged up too, Lebron is still a freak of nature but are Hassem and Miller really getting better next year...Chalmers may walk away in Free Agency, he has to get a bigger deal than Miami can offer him, MLE talk is hilarious, there may not be one in the next CBA and teams only have 1 every other year as it stands now(Miller was signed for the MLE this year wasn't he) also with late draft picks and 0 cap flexibility they are very limited in who they can Target, does Dalembert take the vet minimum,not once other teams start offering him multi year deals worth millions, the Vets that sign will be players no one else wants or people that get cut or brought out of contracts, if those guys are the X factors you make them out to be then why aren't we all talking about them, Miami has a good shot at making it out of a few rounds but they'll never have enough to get passed the cream of the crop...those are the facts, No Money, No Draft picks worth the salt on my balls, No Free Agent Savior, No Veteran Savior, No MLE garbage talk and the CBA may force teams to cut cost and players...TOL, tell me who they sign or draft that makes an Impact, the Main reason they had a chance to win it all was a weakened Eastern Conference, what happens when the rest of the talent catches up to them like it did the Lakers and Celtics...
Dirk shot 39% in the NBA Finals in 06. He let his team down, not vice-versa.
Jason Terry nearly outscored him and shot a better percentage
Bosh didn't have the greatest of games,but he wasn't why they lost. He gave his season averages,and in that lies the problem. As great as LBJ,Wade,and Bosh are as individual players, they aren't enough. All three have to be great because of how the team is constructed now. That's the flaw. Other players around the league realize if i want to play with them and possibly win a championship I will have to take a pay cut. Winning a championship is important,but this is the real world,getting paid is more important. Its gonna be tough for them as currently constructed to win.They have 6 players under contract, they will have a new team next year. For as close as they got, 2 games in the finals short seems like 100 miles. Because not only do you have to win those 2 games to get the title,you have to make it thru another season without injury,(luck)beat top competition on the east in 7 game series(Boston,Chicago,Atlanta,maybe NY) and if you happen to make it back to the finals, then play the likes of Dallas,L.A. or OKC or (insert surprise team here). I feel people take winnning a NBA title lightly. Its tough. Behind the NHL, the NBA is the toughest sport to win a title because you have to be better 4 outta 7 times just to advance.
TOL23 u argued with silence is golden but you can't answer any of my questions, They are pretty simple and I'm waiting to hear an answer...
You do not need to sign saviors. You just hopefully sign better talent around those three guys. All of the players they sign will be at the veterans minimum, but you can get help that way. They just need to sign a few players who are not 100 years old off of the bench to improve. Not to mention that the line-up they wanted to play all year, which included Haslem and Miller with Bron, Wade and Bosh, could not take the court together until the Chicago series. It is not an excuse, they lost straight up, but they will have that next year, as well as a base of guys who have played together for a full NBA season. Not to mention, it is not like LeBron James will not be working on a post game, and once that happens, things could get real. I would worry about other teams needing to stock up on talent and groom edges next year more so than the Heat. Dallas after all has a bunch of players who are FA's, and the Lakers/Celtics are getting up there. Will be interesting to see what happens, but I the Heat could definitely add some minor role players that could make a world of difference, or have someone step up and take on a bigger role with more chemistry as a group.
Yeah 3 of the top 20 players but the rest of the team is weak.
If Bosh doesn't get enough touches he's not on that list because he's not a great rebounder, shot blocker, defender.
If Bynum plays anywhere near his potential the Lakers have 3 of the top 20 players in the game too.
It didn't work for them either both teams have flaws and are weak at the bench.
The better more complete team won the title.
I agree. Not sure how wide open Miami's window of opportunity is. I will argue that Wade and LeBron have PEAKED. Bosh is in his prime but how much better will he get? Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller are on the downside of their careers. Mario Chalmers is improving greatly and Joel Anthony is steadily improving, but the vast majority of this team's core has peaked or is on the downside of their careers. Not to mention Bibby and the washed up centers. So they have to replace HALF the team next year so their still might be some chemistry issues.
NBA players usually peak by their 8th year. LeBron and Wade have played a TON of minutes in the regular season, plus minutes with Team USA and two Finals runs. Bosh has played in fewer postseason games but he might not get vastly better. This might be the best Bosh there is with all three starting to decline sometime next year.
MJ had two rings at the end of his 8th year. He got his 3rd ring in his ninth year but had already peaked physically. He worked like hell to work on his shooting and his post game. He was also a great defender and a good passer and rebounder. After his 9th year he still had a great run in 1996-98 but I think his time off really helped rejuvinate him. LeBron might hit the wall fast if he doesn't improve on his shooting and his post game. Crazy as it sounds, I think Dirk has a game style that will age better than LeBron's. With his improving post game and his great shooting I think Dirk might actually be a better player than LeBron even over the next 3 or 4 seasons. ... Dirk is unstoppable on the low blocks and high post. He can shoot turnarounds and fadeaways and drive on slower power forwards and centers. He also has the height to finish over the top so he can turn himself into the next Tim Duncan or Kareem if he continues to work on that aspect of his game. Not sure where LeBron can go with his game. LeBron had more of a Magic Johnson type line in the Finals with 18 points to go along with 7 rebounds and 7 assists. He might have to turn himself into the next Magic-Pippen hybrid but he still needs to work on a post game (Magic and Pippen could post up). He might end up turning into the next Karl Malone who scores a lot of points with the majority being fairly meaningless. In crunch time both guys disappear.
Players and teams can get "OLD" and "OVER THE HILL" seemingly overnight. Watch what happened to the Celtics, Lakers, and Spurs. They just seemed to get really old, really fast. The same could happen to the Big Three.
They do not need to get a guy that's going to put them at another level because with this Heat team, they are already at the other level. They simply need guys that are going to help what Big 3 and other role players around them. This offseason is full of good players that are willing to play for 2-3mil meaning you can sign atleast two servicable backups with the MLE.
The Miami Heat can easily sign guys like Jason Collins, who has a history of defended Dwight Howard decently well. Arron Afflalo, a knockdown 3PT shooter that is also a great defender. As well as Grant Hill, a do it all player that can defend pretty much all positions. They are not homerun players, but if you add three servicable players to your roster, it is much improved. They resign Chalmers and Bibby and look at this possible line-up.
- Chalmers / Bibby
- Wade / Afflalo / Miller
- James / Hill / Miller
- Bosh / Haslem
- Collins / Anthony
Although they are still thin up front, that did not stop them from reaching the Finals this season. Not only that, they add 3 key pieces that are all good defenders and can make them a much more versatile team. They can go small with Bosh-James-Hill-Afflalo-Wade or they can go big with Collins-Bosh-James-Miller-Wade. They can go defensive with Wade-Afflalo-Hill-James-Collins or they can go athletic with Chalmers-Wade-James-Haslem-Bosh.
They become a much more versatile team and a much better team. I cannot see how anybody can say these guys are not going to improve. Wade and James are two of the most hard working players in the league and you're telling me they aren't going to try to evolve their games this offseason so they can play better off-ball? They aren't going to improve their 3PT shot? They aren't going to channel all the negative energy to make something positive out of it? I'm pretty sure they will.
Last summer, I called it, I said Lebron should sign with Wade in Miami, and then they should bring not one alls tar, but role players, shooters, and missing pieces. What they should have done is go after Korver, Brewer, and maybe even convince Ray Allen to sign for slightly less, and get Jermaine Oneal to sign for a decent amount. They still might have had a void at the big man, but that team would have been deeper than the one they have now. I still believe that they are waaaaaaaaaaay to talented not to win a championship, so I believe one will eventually come, but as someone stated previously yesterday, Lebron is nore Julius Erving than anybody, and they also said that if Kobe were in his prime, he would be better than Lebron. I just hope this doesn't get any uglier...
Did you see how Jermaine O'Neal played in the play-offs this year? I do not want to spend any more than I have too to sign that guy, especially not the 12 over 2 years the Celts just gave him. Also, while I love the idea of signing Ray Allen and all, they would still have a major problem up front. Same if they signed Korver or Brewer. Bosh was not that bad of a signing, he has been pretty darn durable and is a huge match-up problem to most teams. Not to mention, if Kendrick Perkins was eaten alive by Tyson Chandler, how would Jermaine O'Neal currently stand a snowballs chance in hell. I think the team signed three great players, and that these players could definitely come together and win a championship. I do not really question their signings after the first year losing in the Finals in Game 6. Obviously any loss in the Finals makes them look bad for doing it, but if they even win one championship, I think you have to say it was worth it. Dallas sure is about all of the money the spent over the years trying to win a title.
Also, everyone, get ready to make some fat jokes, because I think Eddy Curry is going to be in a Heat uniform next season. He might not make an entire world of difference, maybe he will only be a deep bench guy like Dampier, but he is still only 28 years old, and has soft hands, plus an ability to score in the low post. He was always a sub par rebounder, but than again, Joel Anthony is for the most part as well. Though, Eddy was always a decent helping hand on the offensive glass. Atleast Eddy's hands are not blocks of concrete. If Eddy does indeed get into shape, he could be a nice, cheap pick-up for a Heat team that could use a back to the basket type Center.
Yeah Dirk has had much better teams than Bosh but he's never played with players like Wade and Lebron.
Lets not go nuts Finley was no Joe Dumars and Nash wasn't John Stockton.
Devin Harris made the All Star team in 2009 he's no where near an All NBA player and made the team with the Nets. Keith Van Horn really now your reaching he was at the end of his career and did nothing for the Mavs in the playoffs. Jamison and Antoine walker played for the Mavs one year and thanks to Don Nelson system they never played much defense. Drew Gooden played for half a season & theres a reason he's been on 9 teams in his career he's not an All Star never was and never will be. Stackhouse wasn't a great player he came off the bench mostly for the team, he was a great scorer on Detroit 5 years before coming to Dallas & he shot 40% every year still. Butler hasn't played a whole year with the team if he would've made a huge difference like Marion. Your overrating the role players that Dirk played with for the most part. Nash and Finley were great starters definately
the thing that is good about the Heat is Pat Riley....he will somehow find a way to put together a winning team. screw anything Dan Gilbert says, he is a hater and although I didnt agree with LeBron going to Miami, he definitely shouldnt have stayed in Cleveland. Organizational Personnel is paramount these days. Some teams have it...like Miami, Los Angeles, etc... some teams dont...like Cleveland....and some are getting it together like Golden State. Miami is one of the last teams to enter the league and it didnt take them long to get their first championship and it wont take them long to get their next.