I had a debate with my buddy he doens't think that Hayward will ever sniff allstar level and that at most he might be sixth man of the year one day. I might have the minority opinion I think Hayward can be a allstar one day, with his height, high work ethic, BBIQ and shooting ability. Love to hear your take, thanks!
I think he could make 1-2 all-star games definately, he's not going to be in there year in year out by any means. He showed allot at the end of the season last year, and really looked like the leader and possible face of the Jazz franchise. I personally think of all the personalities on the current jazz roster, that he has the most leadership capabilities. With that being said one of his biggest problems all season was his lack of aggressiveness at times, where he would shy away from the ball, or make unessicary passes. If he comes out and plays extremelly aggressive next season under the jazz new roster he could really surprise some people.
good player, not allstar, mirror image to John Salmons as a player
Yeah he could be an allstar if they decide to resegregate the league after the lock out is over.
Him, Darko, Steve Blake etc..
That guys not likely to develop into an All-Star caliber player at all.
He's a really special player. Not really comparable to Salmons, Milicic or Blake.
Hayward is tough, unselfish and smart. That kind of combination is rare enough. On top of that, he's a pure shooter, good rebounder, excellent defender and intuitive passer. If he can keep his confidence up, he's an all-star easily.
I wasnt comparing him to blake or darko. He is more comparable in my opinion to martell webster, except less agressive, confident, and athletic. They both have potential but I dont think either gordon or webster will ever be allstar wing players in the nba.
His highest ceiling to me is Mike Miller, and Miller was never at an all-star level at any point in his career. So I'm going to say Hayward likely won't be an all-star or make any appearance.
You compared his talent level to Blake and Milicic, which doesn't make sense either.
Miller is a better comparison, though he lacks Hayward's defense and finishing ability. Hayward has those rare qualities that you don't see often. I put him in the same company as Evan Turner and Kevin Love.
He didn't prove enough to me this year that he'll for sure be a All-Star, personally I think this season(If there is one) will show what he's going to be in the League.
miller ?!?! are you kidding me? i think if the kid keeps working he will be the jazz next Andrei Kirilenko
if he grow some chin hair?
Hayward is nothing like Andrei Kirelinko. Andrei at his prime was a defensive monster with his shotblocking and steals, Hayward is not a shot blocker, nor does he have Andrei's quickness to guard SG, like Andrei use to do.
ummm i think you just said at his PRIME! i said if the kid works on it he can be. how was andrei in his second year?? LOL
andrei got 12 pts 2.2 bpg (hayward will never get that) 1.5 spg 1.7 apg and 5.3 rpg. i think gordon can get all that if not better.
I didnt compare him to either of those players numbnuts. I was saying that the only way he would ever make an all star team is if the nba kicked all of the black players out. say that darko and blake and hayward would be all stars in an all white league is not comparing their skills or styles of play in any way.
Honestly though you have to be a much better player than hayward to make an allstar team. He wont even come close to being the best player on the jazz by the end of his rookie contract, and the jazz are a terrible team that wont have a single all star or win 30 games most likely. Give me all of the negs you want, I'm going to speak the truth regardless.
I mean serisously the jazz lost williams, boozer, and stern all in one season. They are going to be woeful. How many players of haywards caliber make the all star team on a team that wins 25 games?
Also in terms of talent
Kanter most likely > hayward
burks > or = hayward
favors > or = hayward
there are 7 players that are better than him or as good as him on his own team. What all star wing player could you really say that about at any point in their career?
Gordan Heyward most potential is to be a guy like Richard Hamilton or Mehmet Okur (I AM NOT SAYING HE WILL PLAY LIKE HIM OR HAVE THE SAME STYLE OF PLAY).When I say Richard Hamilton r Mehmet Okur I am saying Gordan could be one of those guys that is always productive and could make a all star game in his prime when his team is doing good.
Uhhhh, I'm going to go with a young Ginobili, Minus a little spead but plus a little more heighth. They both play a very similar especially when ginobili was younger, both are very crafty players, have a quick first step, great court vision out of their position, and good enough handles to orchestrate an offense. The defensive end he doesnt quite have the tools Manu does such as his quick hands on ball to create easy turnovers. However his athletecism and defensive capabilitys are really undervalued, of the minutes he played last season he was one of the few jazzmen who rarely got beat man to man, and he never gave up on plays, and to his credit for that got quite a few chase down blocks because of it. He also in the month of april during extended minutes, extended his career high in 3 of the 7 games that month, and did a pretty outstanding job guarding Kobe in one of those games out playing him for 48 minutes, while also getting the duty of guarding him for the majority of the night.
Hayward is going to much better than some of you think, he showed at the end of last yr what he was capable of and his work ethic and mentality will help him elevate his game to an all star level. It may take him a couple of yrs or more but I think he will definitely become an all star. He does have very good leadership qualities and that will boad well for him.
I agree that Gordon has a certain intangible quality ... a good player that will be made better by a team-based system like the Jazz use .. the best comparison is Jeff Hornacek.
@flybobbyfly I'm just going to assume you didn't watch a single Jazz game last season with your statement, and furthermore your comment that "white guys can't make an all-star game unless they kick the black players out of the league" really kind of solidify's your ignorance.
"I didnt compare him to either of those players numbnuts."
com·par·i·son noun \kəm-ˈper-ə-sən, -ˈpa-rə-\
1. the act or process of comparing: as
a : the representing of one thing or person as similar to or like another
Now that we've established that you don't understand the English language...
"darko and blake and hayward would be all stars in an all white league"
You actually believe that Hayward, Milicic and Blake are all among the top 24 white/European players in the NBA?
"Give me all of the negs you want, I'm going to speak the truth regardless."
I didn't give you any negatives, and your interpretation of "the truth" is comical.
"How many players of haywards caliber make the all star team on a team that wins 25 games?"
I don't remember saying he was going to make the all-star game next season...
Anyway, Ginobili and Hornacek are fantastic comparisons. Could definitely see Hayward having a similar career as those two.
Gordon Hayward isn't the shot-creator Manu Ginobili is. Hornacek is more realistic. Gordon Hayward likely won't even be the best perimeter scorer on the team in the future. Alec Burks potentially is a more dangerous scorer.
Perhaps a more dangerous scorer, but certainly not a more efficient scorer. Hayward is much better at playing within an offense and will likely the better defender.
Not high at all on Burks, but to be fair, I wasn't too high on Hayward either.
Ginobili is obviously a better shot-creator, but the two are similar as far as intangibles are concerned. Thinking toughness, grit and ability in the clutch. I could see Hayward's impact being similar to Ginobili's.
I'd say Hayward has a higher chance of making an all-star team than Favors or Burks.
I don't think he'll be an All-Star, I really don't know about any of the 3 being All-Stars but Hayward has no special offensive skill that makes him an All-Star type player. A strong role player? Sure, but All-Star is pushing it. Honestly he seems like an ideal 3rd or even 4th option at top upside.
He probably will be more efficient than Burks, especially next season or maybe even the year after. Burks is a shot-creator off the dribble who will take higher difficulty shots. Hayward will largely be an off-ball scorer who has shots created for him much more than he'll get his own shots, which in addition to his shot selection will mean he's largely taking high percentage shots, but not the kinds of shots that suggest All-Star type production. Burks will need to get stronger and improve as a shooter, but I think he'll be a better scorer in time.
Is it so unrealistic for Hayward to average 17 points, 5 rebounds and 5 assists a few years from now? That's the kind of line that sent Ginobili to the all-star game. I believe Hayward is capable of that, while shooting 50/40/90 and playing excellent defense at either wing position.
Hayward is an extremely intelligent player with a strong work ethic and he's playing in a system that is tailor-made for a player with his skill-set. It's hard to see him not reaching his full potential.
Alot of people thought Kevin Love would never be an all star..
I have to agree with No Money & chevilicous on this 1..Heyward can possibly be a all star 1 day..He's a very crafty player that takes good shots and shoots a good percentage..Has a solid all around game..His best position is at shooting guard,he seems more comfortable at that spot..And he played Kobe pretty well last year..
If Hayward gets to the All-Star with a line like 17 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg the Jazz would also have to have the best record in the West like San Antonio did. Ginobili put up those stats on a team that either had single digit losses at the break or was super close to it, I can't remember. He can't just put that up on a middling team, or even a mid-level playoff squad and be an All-Star.
I don't think Hayward is a 5 apg player. I'm not even sold the Jazz would be a very good team with Hayward having that kind of statline. He would have to have the ball alot to do that, more than I would say is ideal for him.
"Alot of people thought Kevin Love would never be an all star.."
Is that a valid argument for Gordon Hayward? Kevin Love stole that All-Star bid in cold blood, as an alternate, over LaMarcus Aldridge. David Stern probably looked at stats and put Love in. I guess if you're suggesting Hayward could put up extremely bloated stats on a terrible team, he could steal an All-Star bid then sure. But even Love had a niche that was at least good enough to be at the top of the NBA with his rebounding, and he put up 20 ppg. Hayward might be a high level shooter in terms of percentage from 3, but guys have done that and not made the All-Star game. NoMoney said himself 17, 5 rpg, 5 apg is Hayward upside. Those are not bloated enough numbers to even get in as an alternate on a middling team or below.
"If Hayward gets to the All-Star with a line like 17 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg the Jazz would also have to have the best record in the West like San Antonio did."
I suppose I'm just an optimist then. Go Jazz.
"I don't think Hayward is a 5 apg player. I'm not even sold the Jazz would be a very good team with Hayward having that kind of statline. He would have to have the ball alot to do that, more than I would say is ideal for him."
Secondary ball-handlers in Utah usually get a lot of assists. Maybe 5 is a bit out-of-reach, but Kirilenko managed to get 4.0 a game in the same season that Deron Williams got 10.5, Carlos Boozer got 2.9 and Mehmet Okur got 2.0.
I like Gordon, but I do not believe he has that kind of game. He is a solid shooter and a good team player. Not a guy who takes over games or carries a team and essentially that is what a all star does.
Gordon was the first one to admit that he needed to work on his aggressiveness. If he really does work on that then I see hayward as the #2 option controlling the ball in Utah. If he is the #2 option then 5 apg is not out of reach at all. If he learns to be more aggressive and he gets 30 to 40 mpg then I see things happening like this. Harris 17 ppg 8 apg, Hayward 13 ppg 4apg 5 rpg. That is very realistic and if he can accomplish that in his second season in the league then I say he will grow to have at least one all-star appearance.
I have a hard time seeing Hayward avg. 17/5/5 throughout a whole season. There aren't a whole lot of player in the league putting those numbers up. That means you have to be getting enough touches and PT to get 17 points and 5 assists...IDK if I see Hayward doing that, especially in the assists column. I see a statline reminiscent of Dunleavy. About 15/3/5 in his prime.
you are crazy not to think that he is a mirror image to John Salmons as a player, they are similar physically and athletically, they play the game with the same manner and style, do all things at the same level, uses good ball handling and aggressiveness to be productive as slashers to degree, streaky but good long range shooters, some passing and playmaking ability for others, compete hard defensively...
By the time the Jazz are good again, Hayward won't be a starter. The Jazz had a deceptive record. Before dealing Deron Williams, they were 31-26. After dealing Deron Williams, they were 8-17. You shouldn't look at this teams as a 39-win team, they are more like a 26-win team. It is very likely they'll be picking top 5 maybe top 10 if their young players come along quickly again this year, and a team isn't going to pass up on Harrison Barnes because Gordon Hayward played well in some of those irrelevant April games.
I would say that deceptive record was 90% Sloan (whom was their idenity for 2 decades), and 10% Dwill. This team still has a great balance of rookies, and veterans, to be within the 35-40 win range and miss on the playoffs as a 9 or 10 seed. Plus the games in april in which he got extended minutes, and was at times the 1st or 2nd option in the offense he really flourished, and the games in which he did play well where hardly irrelevant, as the majority of the teams he played against where still battling for home court advantage or a playoff spot such as the lakers and the hornets. The reason i pointed to those games was because that was really the only time of which all season he played 20+ minutes consistently, where under sloan he was playing about anywhere from 4-15 sporadically and never really had a solid role on the team.
Those who don't think Hayward can be an all star didn't watch him very close towards the end of the yr last yr. The Jazz plans for Hayward are for him to play the 2 and they like him to have the ball in his hands. Thus 5 assists isn't at all unlikely. Gordons perfectionist mentality , workethic and desire will push him to have the numbers necessary to make an all star team and probably many all star teams. He is a very good passer, sees the floor very good, unselfish, he's a good rebounder, especially for a 2, very good 3 pt shooter, has a good game off the dribble, runs the floor well, is much more athletic than people think, he's hard nosed and a winner. I agree will alot of Money's comments, I think he will average more than 17 pts though, more like 19 -21 pts, depending on what the team needs. He's working real hard and his dribbling/ballhandling this off season and that is because the Jazz want him to have the ball in his hands more.
I didn't see much of Hayward in his rookie year but here is my opinion anyway. I didn't see any flashes of all star in his game. I am not saying he won't be a good player. I could see him being a starter on a good team at the 3. I just do not ever see an all star game. I see him as like a 15ppg, 4rpg and 4apg game with solid defense and shooting at his best. Like BTPH said, he played his best in games that didn't matter. Anthony Randolph played well at the end of the year as well. Do we think he is going to be an all star? I don't, I just see solid rotation guy. Hayward can be a good player possibly similar to Richard Jefferson(who had good numbers but never made an all star team).
I think he has the potential to become an All-Star, granted he it was April but in the 7 games where he was playing 36 minutes per he averaged 16.4 ppg and shot 57% from 3 point range...and he just turned 21 that same spring.
He's going to continue to work hard, and I don't think he's a 5 apg type playmaker, but I think he could average 18-20 ppg and do so very efficiently. He reminds me of Wally Szczerbiak who was a 1 time All-Star...I could see Gordon having a very similar career.
The thing you have to think about when asking whether Gordon will become and All star is if he stays in the West, who will he replace. Also Jazz have guys at the guard position that could become better than him if not there already. Will he get enough touches? Also like Iggy said, will the Jazz win enough games for him to get in if he has that many touches?
Also there are a lot talented swingmen coming in and if Gordon does not make the All Star soon, he may never make it whether he deserves it or not because he does not have a high flying game that gets the most attention. Also I dont see he touching Wally Szcerbiak as a shooter in effieciency and putting up what Wally did at 20 plus a game for a season.
You guys all know my take on Gordon but the thing is. I dont need to let my opinions about him enter this argument because there are other factors that will stop him from being an All star that many.
I will end with a little bit of controversy. I think Anthony Randolph because of this athleticism and size has a chance to sneak into an All Star game before Gordon Hayward.
No, and if u think hayward will be an allstar then u really are clueless.....its as simple as that
“[Hayward is] better than I thought he was. He makes plays and he’s athletic. He’s a good person, too,” said Burks - www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/52244743-87/burks-hayward-nba-jazz.html.csp
The thing with Gordon Hayward is that people always underestimate him initially. The kid will keep surprising everyone.
scliddiard is turning Gordon Hayward into the next Larry Bird.
sheltwon3, I agree. Anthony Randolph will be playing in the Russian League All-Star game within the next five years.
I would be more sold on Jimmer making the All Star game before Hayward because on Sacramento. Jimmer should be able to unleash his offensive abilities. I see no reason why he can not put up numbers close to Thornton who can score but also is not that great defensively. Thornton is more athletic though but Jimmer may be the better shooter by and is a better fit next to Evans who is typically a slasher.
I hink Hayward will be a servicable player, maybe get 16-18 points for a couple seasons, but It's not likely he makes the All-Star team, however I do expect him to be a nice player for a contender down the road, but probably not an All-Star.
Yes, he is a pure shooter and has some quicks and handles to go with it. Anytime you got both of those its a recipe for success.
Gordan Hayward plays nothing like Mike Miller...
No Money, Where is Gordan Hayward defense at? With that said, Gordan Hayward had a good game against the Lakers and the last game of the season THATS it...
He will NEVER be an all-star unless voted in by fans... Nothing he does shows me he will be a factor not even a 3rd option... I don't even know why anyone would think that... Mario Chalmers has a better chance of becoming an All-Star before him... But I'm going to equate him to someone on his level... I know I'm bout to catch flack for this, but Adam Morrison... Adam Morrison and Gordan Hayward are clones... It's just Hayward is more athletic... Don't give me no mess either because Adam had a 30 point game too...
I'm still speechless that some of you think Adam Morrison can be an All-Star... I mean Gordan Hayward...
Where the hell have you been?
I think it's amazing just how fast things can change in one year lol... A year ago, nobody would've even mentioned the word "all-star" and Gordon Hayward in the same sentence. All you heard was "bust", "overrated", "second round pick", "great white hope", etc. There went from being one Hayward supporter (me) on the site, to many. Not even Jazz fans were supporters, but now that's starting to change... Just like I said it would lol.
Hayward will put up better numbers (better rebounder and passer), but his style of play is similar to Matt Caroll's during his first stint with the Bobcats. I don't know if anyone remembers, but Caroll had good point forward skills and could really shoot the ball. I also see a little of Brent Barry (Clippers and Seattle versions) in his game. You could also say he's a tougher/more athletic Mike Dunleavy Jr. I don't really see Mike Miller in his game at all.
He COULD make an All-Star game, but I think he'll most likely be just a good player on a good team. He'll get considerations, but I think he'll be on the outside looking in majority of the time when it comes to all-star appearances.
Other than being white, Hayward has nothing in common with Morrison. Morrison was more of a scorer... That's all he brought to the table. Hayward is more of an all-around player. Morrison couldn't defend anyone. Hayward is a respectable defender and competes hard at both wing spots.
A lot of y'all continually sleep on Hayward and he's going to piss on y'alls mattresses. I watched him train for a few days not too long ago and he's improved A LOT. He's gotten bigger and it's led to more confidence.
him averaging 1.9 rebounds a game... 1.1 assists a game... 0.4 steals a game... 0.2 blocks a game... In 17 minutes YALL came to the conclusion he's an all-around player? No one gaurds this kid on the floor... I'll put my money where my mouth is, if he shoots ridiculous like that next year and improves his numbers to 10 points (funny, I'm giving a player yall consider a future All-Star cred if he proves he can average 10 points... How sad)... I'll bet any of you, name your price...
When Hayward started getting consistent minutes the last month, it really let him get comfortable in the system. In April they more or less made him a starter and gave him 35 minutes a game. This is what he did:
Its not like he struggled to get those 16PPG either, his shooting percentages were incredible.