[clw5382Participant]

 Hi guys, interested to hear your thoughts on this comparison. 

 

Ingram 16.7ppg 6.2rpg 

Wiggins 17.1ppg 5.9rpg 

 

Wiggins is obviously a freak athlete, withthe an amazing first step. But Ingram has a better jumpshot and is a better Ballhandler than what Wiggins was. 

Also Important to note, Ingram plays with Grayson Allen (20pt scorer) yet he is still putting up on par numbers with Wiggins. 

 

I love Wiggins, but I see a lot of potential in Brandon and see the comparisons to KD. I think when he hits the pros  he is closer to Wiggins in production. 

Ingram would be a good No. 1 most years, but Ben Simmons has had the spotlight. 

 

Anyways id love to see Brandon on the Lakers. Think he is going to be a stud. 

what do you guys think of the comparison to Wiggins? 

 

Cheers 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[clw5382Participant]

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/1/11/10748668/brandon-ingram-nba-draft-good

A good article on what Ingram has been doing this year in comparison to other highly drafted wings.

Worth a read.

[clw5382Participant]

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/1/11/10748668/brandon-ingram-nba-draft-good

A good article on what Ingram has been doing this year in comparison to other highly drafted wings.

Worth a read.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

also, the eye test:

Mentality:  Wiggins is so frustrating because he only plays really hard when someone annoys him (talk too much, cheap shot, etc).  Tim Duncan does the same, but Tim Duncan can play within the system due to his size, andTim Duncan is 18 years older than Wiggins.  Ingram right now, is directing other more senior players on the court, telling them where to be.  You can tell he asks for the ball nearly every possession.  I think he’s more of a winner, even though he looks like he just smoked a blunt.

Athleticism:  Equal.  I actually think Ingram has a slight advantage on defense because of his length.  Otherwise, they are both really really good defensively and have crazy verticals.  Wiggins does have a quick first step and a nice spin move, but its not like he demands the ball and takes it over….limited by handle.

Shot: Ingram all day every day.  Ingram’s shot is far more pure.  Wiggins shot has nicely converted, I never saw Wiggins swish shots like Ingram does.

Handle: Ingram is able to slash, and cross over.  Wiggins is a streamliner and spinmove that he never really has built upon that.  I think Ingram natrually has more skills.

Finishing around the rim: Ingram we’ve already seen some ridiculously pretty finger rolls, finish with both hands.  Wiggins has been unable.

Strength:  Wiggins undoubdetly.  

IQ:  Ingram by far.  You can tell Ingram is thinking about the offense running as a whole.  Wiggins gets the ball, and plays iso ball.  Meaning, he is not a player that can "see" and thus make great passes.  Ingram sees the whole floor.

In Summary:  Wiggins is a little stronger and maybe a little more athletic, which obviously helps in the NBA.  Ingram is more skill (shoot, pass, dribble), longer, SMARTER, MORE MENTALLY STRONG, and his footwork allows to defend the 1,2,3 and maybe 4.  

So we didn’t get Wiggins (shame because he’s a very nice player), well bring on Brandon Ingram.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

also, the eye test:

Mentality:  Wiggins is so frustrating because he only plays really hard when someone annoys him (talk too much, cheap shot, etc).  Tim Duncan does the same, but Tim Duncan can play within the system due to his size, andTim Duncan is 18 years older than Wiggins.  Ingram right now, is directing other more senior players on the court, telling them where to be.  You can tell he asks for the ball nearly every possession.  I think he’s more of a winner, even though he looks like he just smoked a blunt.

Athleticism:  Equal.  I actually think Ingram has a slight advantage on defense because of his length.  Otherwise, they are both really really good defensively and have crazy verticals.  Wiggins does have a quick first step and a nice spin move, but its not like he demands the ball and takes it over….limited by handle.

Shot: Ingram all day every day.  Ingram’s shot is far more pure.  Wiggins shot has nicely converted, I never saw Wiggins swish shots like Ingram does.

Handle: Ingram is able to slash, and cross over.  Wiggins is a streamliner and spinmove that he never really has built upon that.  I think Ingram natrually has more skills.

Finishing around the rim: Ingram we’ve already seen some ridiculously pretty finger rolls, finish with both hands.  Wiggins has been unable.

Strength:  Wiggins undoubdetly.  

IQ:  Ingram by far.  You can tell Ingram is thinking about the offense running as a whole.  Wiggins gets the ball, and plays iso ball.  Meaning, he is not a player that can "see" and thus make great passes.  Ingram sees the whole floor.

In Summary:  Wiggins is a little stronger and maybe a little more athletic, which obviously helps in the NBA.  Ingram is more skill (shoot, pass, dribble), longer, SMARTER, MORE MENTALLY STRONG, and his footwork allows to defend the 1,2,3 and maybe 4.  

So we didn’t get Wiggins (shame because he’s a very nice player), well bring on Brandon Ingram.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Pretty spot on.  Don’t let my comments about him being a 2 guard fool you.  I love his game.  Early in the year I thought Jaylen Brown could contest for the 2nd pick but its a lock for Ingram.

Seeing the check list like you listed compared against Wiggins is pretty impressive for Ingram.

 

This will be a 1a and 1b draft.

 

 

 

[Magic JordanParticipant]

 Pretty spot on.  Don’t let my comments about him being a 2 guard fool you.  I love his game.  Early in the year I thought Jaylen Brown could contest for the 2nd pick but its a lock for Ingram.

Seeing the check list like you listed compared against Wiggins is pretty impressive for Ingram.

 

This will be a 1a and 1b draft.

 

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 T-Wolves might end up with both of them.

 

 

[ExumInfernoParticipant]

 T-Wolves might end up with both of them.

 

 

[martinidisParticipant]

Ingram more polished, better handle, better shooter and definetely more talentend. Wiggins has the physical tools to be a superstar in the league. I like Ingram more but I can’t say who is gonna be better at the next level. 

[martinidisParticipant]

Ingram more polished, better handle, better shooter and definetely more talentend. Wiggins has the physical tools to be a superstar in the league. I like Ingram more but I can’t say who is gonna be better at the next level. 

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

 I would like to see Ingram play in the NBA  before i even make that decision. Ingrams potential may even exceed Simmons in my opinion. I really believe if Ingram goes to a team that actually has great leadership he can benefit from that, but he needs to get bigger just like Wiggins. I feel that Wiggins is better at attacking the rim and getting to the line, But Ingrams Shot is way better than Wiggins. Honestly you cant go wrong with either, Wiggins as a 20 year old is getting better, but for him and Karl Towns to hit that next level in their development need a better coach than Mitchell, saying that I feel Ingram needs to go to a team that allows him to freely control the rock, but a coach that will also make him work. I felt there are similarities between him and Michael Beasley i might get negged for it, but its true, I felt in Miami Beasley was force to work without the ball which eventually hurt him ( Beasley was a lazy a baller) but i think Ingram is a going to be a stud definetly a 1a 1b draft. I think Ingram is a superstar in the making just like i feel Wiggins is a superstar in the making. 

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

I am gonna write a comment about this tomorrow.  I think Ingram has great potential, and I don’t think Simmons potential is as great as it is.  I know exactly what I’m doing here in making this thought.  I just saw on ESPN Simmons hit a shot from the bench, and underneath it says "yup he’s just that good"

That annoys the hell out of me.  Simmons whole game is rebounding and scoring within 8 feet.  He gets guarded by guys 7 inches shorter than him that can stay in front of him and because he can’t shoot, he’s kind of useless on the perimeter.  There is no triple threat.

The only thing about Simmons is that he is a stabilizer, a baller with a very high IQ.  That in tandem with his height and speed are great, but unless he shows he can develop a shot, I woudln’t touch him.  The guy literally is afraid to shoot. BTW, his coach looks like a damn turtle,horrible. 

 

  

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

I am gonna write a comment about this tomorrow.  I think Ingram has great potential, and I don’t think Simmons potential is as great as it is.  I know exactly what I’m doing here in making this thought.  I just saw on ESPN Simmons hit a shot from the bench, and underneath it says "yup he’s just that good"

That annoys the hell out of me.  Simmons whole game is rebounding and scoring within 8 feet.  He gets guarded by guys 7 inches shorter than him that can stay in front of him and because he can’t shoot, he’s kind of useless on the perimeter.  There is no triple threat.

The only thing about Simmons is that he is a stabilizer, a baller with a very high IQ.  That in tandem with his height and speed are great, but unless he shows he can develop a shot, I woudln’t touch him.  The guy literally is afraid to shoot. BTW, his coach looks like a damn turtle,horrible. 

 

  

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

 I would like to see Ingram play in the NBA  before i even make that decision. Ingrams potential may even exceed Simmons in my opinion. I really believe if Ingram goes to a team that actually has great leadership he can benefit from that, but he needs to get bigger just like Wiggins. I feel that Wiggins is better at attacking the rim and getting to the line, But Ingrams Shot is way better than Wiggins. Honestly you cant go wrong with either, Wiggins as a 20 year old is getting better, but for him and Karl Towns to hit that next level in their development need a better coach than Mitchell, saying that I feel Ingram needs to go to a team that allows him to freely control the rock, but a coach that will also make him work. I felt there are similarities between him and Michael Beasley i might get negged for it, but its true, I felt in Miami Beasley was force to work without the ball which eventually hurt him ( Beasley was a lazy a baller) but i think Ingram is a going to be a stud definetly a 1a 1b draft. I think Ingram is a superstar in the making just like i feel Wiggins is a superstar in the making. 

[Hype Machine]

I got Simmons, Ingram then Wiggins

Put him on a team where the defense has to respect all 5 players and Simmons would be even better. His coach is terrible…no idea how to use him. Give him a position! It could be any positon…just dont give him NO position. 

Ingram is going to be between a Prime Rashard Lewis to poor mans Durant. Hes nice, and his style of play suits modern NBA.

Wiggins is too weak in my opinion. He could be better than Andre Igoudala if had more strength.

 

 

 

[Hype Machine]

I got Simmons, Ingram then Wiggins

Put him on a team where the defense has to respect all 5 players and Simmons would be even better. His coach is terrible…no idea how to use him. Give him a position! It could be any positon…just dont give him NO position. 

Ingram is going to be between a Prime Rashard Lewis to poor mans Durant. Hes nice, and his style of play suits modern NBA.

Wiggins is too weak in my opinion. He could be better than Andre Igoudala if had more strength.

 

 

 

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Than add size and length, voila, Brandon Ingram has so much more upside.

However, here are a couple things I think go into the Wiggins column that I believe have been left out:

• Wiggins is exceptionally quick at 6’8. Say what you will, in this aspect I believe that he beats Ingram out by a nice margin. Obviously Ingram’s insane wingspan and height advantage come into play to counter it a tad, but remember this: a pass is faster than a dribbling ball handler. Andrew did have a higher percentage of his baskets assisted on at the basket (according to Hoop-Math.com), and also a slightly higher FG% at the basket as well.
• For however passive as people think Andrew Wiggins is, he gets to the FT stripe a lot. He did in college at a much greater rate than Ingram and he has done so in the NBA to the point where he is averaging more FTA per game than LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Paul George right now (they all play around 35 mpg, with Wiggins currently at 35 on the nose). Ingram was 5.6 FTA per 40 minutes right now, Wiggins was at 7.9 at Kansas. This could be in part due to Wiggins strength advantage, but it just highlights where they are in that fairly important facet at a similar point in time
•  The one thing that I think gets overlooked when it comes to just how athletic Andrew Wiggins is was his work as an offensive rebounder. I know his rebounding is down this season, but he still is at 1.6 orpg. He keeps possessions alive that other wings do not, and he seems to be better at doing this than even Ingram with his absurd physical tools.
• Ingram plays with Grayson Allen, but does that not make life easier for him? Playing with a valuable scorer does not necessarily lead to scoring fewer points, and tends to help efficiency. Duke plays a very perimeter oriented game right now, spreading the floor with great shooters. Kansas in 2013-14? Not so much. You could point to Jojo Embiid being a very nice piece for Wiggins, but he also played 23.1 mpg and I am not sure he helped keep defenses honest as much as Duke does with their line of shooters right now. Lets also keep in mind that Duke scores 85.6 ppg right now. Kansas was at 79 ppg.
• Right now defensive measures rip Andrew Wiggins apart, but I think he had a lot of responsibility and was incredibly versatile as an on-ball defender in college, and he is right now. Ingram has enormous potential here as well, though lets also take into account that Andrew Wiggins is tending to guard the 1-3 position in the NBA depending who is playing on a game-to-game basis. I think metrics kind of miss out on just how much he is asked to do and the fact that he has shown progress and has a lot of potential down the road, which will probably start coming to the surface once the team actually becomes a team.

Brandon Ingram’s early progress has been quite exciting and he has a great deal of potential. His shooting is well ahead of Andrew Wiggins in terms of his ability to spot-up and off of the catch-and-shoot (and I am sure he will eventually become much better than his current 64.3% FT, I do not really count that as a knock on him, though I will point out Andrew Wiggins was at 77.5% FT at KU). It is also incredibly impressive that his statistics are this close to mirroring Wiggins, with some even being greater.

Still, their are NBA translatable things that Andrew Wiggins did excel at beyond just being physically stronger. Plus, while many people are somehow disappointed with how Wiggins has done thus far, the guy is making strides and is dropping 20 on the regular. Right now they are a team that was expected to be bad, did alright for a while, and is now bad again. We see the holes on the team, as well as their incredible lack of production from the SF/PF spot (and while I like Zach LaVine and Shabazz Muhammad, it will take more than them to make up for whoever would be playing next to Wiggins right now to make them a winning team).

Am not ruling out both Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram possibly surpassing Wiggins. In fact, a die hard Canadian recruiting analyst even admitted how much more impactful Simmons was at a similar stage, but I will stick to the original topic. Michael Beasley had a greater PER than Kevin Durant as freshmen. Jabari Parker had a better freshman season than Andrew Wiggins and Brandon Ingram as an individual player. You do have to bring in the "eye test" and NBA translatable skills. Which, in my opinion, still make it debatable that Brandon Ingram has the same transition that made Andrew Wiggins the Rookie of the Year and having him average 20.8 ppg. The sky is the limit for Ingram, but he will still need a lot of things to go his way to get there, and Andrew Wiggins did indeed have a few things that he was better at during a similar stage.

[mikeyvthedonParticipant]

Than add size and length, voila, Brandon Ingram has so much more upside.

However, here are a couple things I think go into the Wiggins column that I believe have been left out:

• Wiggins is exceptionally quick at 6’8. Say what you will, in this aspect I believe that he beats Ingram out by a nice margin. Obviously Ingram’s insane wingspan and height advantage come into play to counter it a tad, but remember this: a pass is faster than a dribbling ball handler. Andrew did have a higher percentage of his baskets assisted on at the basket (according to Hoop-Math.com), and also a slightly higher FG% at the basket as well.
• For however passive as people think Andrew Wiggins is, he gets to the FT stripe a lot. He did in college at a much greater rate than Ingram and he has done so in the NBA to the point where he is averaging more FTA per game than LeBron James, Kevin Durant and Paul George right now (they all play around 35 mpg, with Wiggins currently at 35 on the nose). Ingram was 5.6 FTA per 40 minutes right now, Wiggins was at 7.9 at Kansas. This could be in part due to Wiggins strength advantage, but it just highlights where they are in that fairly important facet at a similar point in time
•  The one thing that I think gets overlooked when it comes to just how athletic Andrew Wiggins is was his work as an offensive rebounder. I know his rebounding is down this season, but he still is at 1.6 orpg. He keeps possessions alive that other wings do not, and he seems to be better at doing this than even Ingram with his absurd physical tools.
• Ingram plays with Grayson Allen, but does that not make life easier for him? Playing with a valuable scorer does not necessarily lead to scoring fewer points, and tends to help efficiency. Duke plays a very perimeter oriented game right now, spreading the floor with great shooters. Kansas in 2013-14? Not so much. You could point to Jojo Embiid being a very nice piece for Wiggins, but he also played 23.1 mpg and I am not sure he helped keep defenses honest as much as Duke does with their line of shooters right now. Lets also keep in mind that Duke scores 85.6 ppg right now. Kansas was at 79 ppg.
• Right now defensive measures rip Andrew Wiggins apart, but I think he had a lot of responsibility and was incredibly versatile as an on-ball defender in college, and he is right now. Ingram has enormous potential here as well, though lets also take into account that Andrew Wiggins is tending to guard the 1-3 position in the NBA depending who is playing on a game-to-game basis. I think metrics kind of miss out on just how much he is asked to do and the fact that he has shown progress and has a lot of potential down the road, which will probably start coming to the surface once the team actually becomes a team.

Brandon Ingram’s early progress has been quite exciting and he has a great deal of potential. His shooting is well ahead of Andrew Wiggins in terms of his ability to spot-up and off of the catch-and-shoot (and I am sure he will eventually become much better than his current 64.3% FT, I do not really count that as a knock on him, though I will point out Andrew Wiggins was at 77.5% FT at KU). It is also incredibly impressive that his statistics are this close to mirroring Wiggins, with some even being greater.

Still, their are NBA translatable things that Andrew Wiggins did excel at beyond just being physically stronger. Plus, while many people are somehow disappointed with how Wiggins has done thus far, the guy is making strides and is dropping 20 on the regular. Right now they are a team that was expected to be bad, did alright for a while, and is now bad again. We see the holes on the team, as well as their incredible lack of production from the SF/PF spot (and while I like Zach LaVine and Shabazz Muhammad, it will take more than them to make up for whoever would be playing next to Wiggins right now to make them a winning team).

Am not ruling out both Ben Simmons and Brandon Ingram possibly surpassing Wiggins. In fact, a die hard Canadian recruiting analyst even admitted how much more impactful Simmons was at a similar stage, but I will stick to the original topic. Michael Beasley had a greater PER than Kevin Durant as freshmen. Jabari Parker had a better freshman season than Andrew Wiggins and Brandon Ingram as an individual player. You do have to bring in the "eye test" and NBA translatable skills. Which, in my opinion, still make it debatable that Brandon Ingram has the same transition that made Andrew Wiggins the Rookie of the Year and having him average 20.8 ppg. The sky is the limit for Ingram, but he will still need a lot of things to go his way to get there, and Andrew Wiggins did indeed have a few things that he was better at during a similar stage.

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

That was a great post.  I just think its another way of saying Wiggins is stronger, and maybe a little quicker, which doesn’t impede him from attacking the rim (which I think Ingram could do (as I stated he is a beautiful finisher at the rim but he just doesn’t get to do it much in this Duke perimeter oriented offense).  

The fact is I’m not sure what they were running at Kansas when wiggins was there.  All I know is, there was so much excitement about him being the next Lebron, that his team would instantly watch him, its not like hte offense was centered around him, with other players cutting to the rim.

I def agree that Wiggins ability to cut to the rim due to his quickness is a factor.  And he is dropping 20, having said that…to me, there is ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE.

Wiggins is soemone you give the ball to and watch him go, he’s not necessarily that "point forward" that is playing within the offensive system like Steph Curry does and Lebron does.  He doesn’t have his eye on whats going on around him, and thats fine, because he is great at what he does.

But the difference between a Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, is that when these guys are handed the ball, they realize there are 4 other players around them and are mindful of it.  Which is why it seems like Ingram can be a focal point to conduct an offense, and this is something Simmons can do as well, he’s just NOT a triple threat because he can’t shoot.  So Ingram reminds me of a conductor with more appreciable basketball Skill on the court.  

Wiggins still needs to feel out the game better, and feel out his teammates, because his skill lends to him basically attacking the rim hard (which leads to fouls), or shooting jumpshots.

I think Ingram has a very mature feel for the game, and that, when added to talent, is what makes a superstar.

 

 

 

 

 

  

[SlickBouncePassParticipant]

That was a great post.  I just think its another way of saying Wiggins is stronger, and maybe a little quicker, which doesn’t impede him from attacking the rim (which I think Ingram could do (as I stated he is a beautiful finisher at the rim but he just doesn’t get to do it much in this Duke perimeter oriented offense).  

The fact is I’m not sure what they were running at Kansas when wiggins was there.  All I know is, there was so much excitement about him being the next Lebron, that his team would instantly watch him, its not like hte offense was centered around him, with other players cutting to the rim.

I def agree that Wiggins ability to cut to the rim due to his quickness is a factor.  And he is dropping 20, having said that…to me, there is ONE MAJOR DIFFERENCE.

Wiggins is soemone you give the ball to and watch him go, he’s not necessarily that "point forward" that is playing within the offensive system like Steph Curry does and Lebron does.  He doesn’t have his eye on whats going on around him, and thats fine, because he is great at what he does.

But the difference between a Tracy McGrady, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, is that when these guys are handed the ball, they realize there are 4 other players around them and are mindful of it.  Which is why it seems like Ingram can be a focal point to conduct an offense, and this is something Simmons can do as well, he’s just NOT a triple threat because he can’t shoot.  So Ingram reminds me of a conductor with more appreciable basketball Skill on the court.  

Wiggins still needs to feel out the game better, and feel out his teammates, because his skill lends to him basically attacking the rim hard (which leads to fouls), or shooting jumpshots.

I think Ingram has a very mature feel for the game, and that, when added to talent, is what makes a superstar.

 

 

 

 

 

  

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

 I agree with you Mikey, i think Wiggins potential is greater than ingrams, and Wiggins has proven his talent. Again the dudes 20 and people already discrediting his potential. I feel Wiggins has the talent to surpass George, just on shear potential and his first 2 seasons. Wiggins get a handle and can create his own shot which i believe he will watch out!!!!.

[BiggaveliiiParticipant]

 I agree with you Mikey, i think Wiggins potential is greater than ingrams, and Wiggins has proven his talent. Again the dudes 20 and people already discrediting his potential. I feel Wiggins has the talent to surpass George, just on shear potential and his first 2 seasons. Wiggins get a handle and can create his own shot which i believe he will watch out!!!!.

[GBeeParticipant]

 Ingram. Pretty easily too. Better skill base, fundamental base, feel for the game, plays with better, more consistent energy, while being equally physically talented IMO. He’s just as much of a threat off the ball as is he is on the ball and he flashes more playmaking for others than Wiggins has ever shown at any juncture of his development.  Ingram has the makings of a number 1 option, while Wiggins will probably be better suited as a #2 bc of his feel for the game, rigid ball skills and lack of playmaking instincts.

[GBeeParticipant]

 Ingram. Pretty easily too. Better skill base, fundamental base, feel for the game, plays with better, more consistent energy, while being equally physically talented IMO. He’s just as much of a threat off the ball as is he is on the ball and he flashes more playmaking for others than Wiggins has ever shown at any juncture of his development.  Ingram has the makings of a number 1 option, while Wiggins will probably be better suited as a #2 bc of his feel for the game, rigid ball skills and lack of playmaking instincts.

[TravelinTravParticipant]

 Both Wiggy and Ingran will/should be all stars. The little bit I’ve seen of Ingram his game doesn’t resemble Wiggins game. I think Josh Jackson and Wiggins is a better comparison. Theirs still a lot of the college season left Ingram could go number 1. Should be a great March madness this year, (not that it isn’t any other year) And I hope the Wolves end up with Ingram.

[TravelinTravParticipant]

 Both Wiggy and Ingran will/should be all stars. The little bit I’ve seen of Ingram his game doesn’t resemble Wiggins game. I think Josh Jackson and Wiggins is a better comparison. Theirs still a lot of the college season left Ingram could go number 1. Should be a great March madness this year, (not that it isn’t any other year) And I hope the Wolves end up with Ingram.

[mamadouParticipant]

Instagram’s corner here.

Many reasons, first Ingram is skinny but he’s not soft or weak in his game, in his head, how many and 1’s already, his boards are not only product of size and length, he works his ass, out of position.

His motor is bigger than wiggins, no hands on the hips every 20 seconds, the debate should end after that…

Ingram could be a leader by example, Wiggins always have been a follower, Towns will have to lead that wolves team, if they want the PO before 2020.

Then it’s all about IQ, feel for the game, abilities, mismatches, he’s a 3 with the skillset/mindset of a 2 and the size/length of a 4,  he’s fundamentally sound, the footwork is OK, the jab steps are no fluke.

The thing i like the most with Ingram is that he’ll be a good to great player with…or without the ball.

A true team player with star potential(he won’t wait 31 YO to understand what has to be done), scoring, shooting, range, all around game, hustle and maybe 2 way player at his position at the end of the day.

He won’t be a chucker or a ball hog ala 18 FGA 2 assists, he’ll be a great catch and shoot guy, good cutter, he’ll create his own shot in a variety of ways, the decison making will be fine, he’ll respect the flow of the game.

It will work for the offensive or defensive side of the ball, at worst he’ll be a hustler, solid team defender, if not a versatile one.

He would fit any team, any style of play, half court "95 pts, high ball, iso", to "110 pts, run and gun, small ball", he can’t be redundant, he’s not requiring players to make him work as an individual either.

A 20 pts Ingram in the nba will be a better player overall than a 25 pts Wiggins, i’m pretty sure a 20 PPG Ingram wouldn’t win 23% of his games either, time will tell.

He’s the only prospect of that draft in that case, he’s the youngest, he should give a run for his money at the old man Simmons.

That kid works everywhere, with the frontcourt of the sixers, with mike conley and russell for the lakers, with the celts, lack of size, length, star power, with Bledsoe and Booker for the suns, with wiggins and rubio the worst shooting backcourt since tony allen and rondo….with anthony Davis(Alonzo Gee is awesome but….) with the blazers, their gunners….

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mamadouParticipant]

Instagram’s corner here.

Many reasons, first Ingram is skinny but he’s not soft or weak in his game, in his head, how many and 1’s already, his boards are not only product of size and length, he works his ass, out of position.

His motor is bigger than wiggins, no hands on the hips every 20 seconds, the debate should end after that…

Ingram could be a leader by example, Wiggins always have been a follower, Towns will have to lead that wolves team, if they want the PO before 2020.

Then it’s all about IQ, feel for the game, abilities, mismatches, he’s a 3 with the skillset/mindset of a 2 and the size/length of a 4,  he’s fundamentally sound, the footwork is OK, the jab steps are no fluke.

The thing i like the most with Ingram is that he’ll be a good to great player with…or without the ball.

A true team player with star potential(he won’t wait 31 YO to understand what has to be done), scoring, shooting, range, all around game, hustle and maybe 2 way player at his position at the end of the day.

He won’t be a chucker or a ball hog ala 18 FGA 2 assists, he’ll be a great catch and shoot guy, good cutter, he’ll create his own shot in a variety of ways, the decison making will be fine, he’ll respect the flow of the game.

It will work for the offensive or defensive side of the ball, at worst he’ll be a hustler, solid team defender, if not a versatile one.

He would fit any team, any style of play, half court "95 pts, high ball, iso", to "110 pts, run and gun, small ball", he can’t be redundant, he’s not requiring players to make him work as an individual either.

A 20 pts Ingram in the nba will be a better player overall than a 25 pts Wiggins, i’m pretty sure a 20 PPG Ingram wouldn’t win 23% of his games either, time will tell.

He’s the only prospect of that draft in that case, he’s the youngest, he should give a run for his money at the old man Simmons.

That kid works everywhere, with the frontcourt of the sixers, with mike conley and russell for the lakers, with the celts, lack of size, length, star power, with Bledsoe and Booker for the suns, with wiggins and rubio the worst shooting backcourt since tony allen and rondo….with anthony Davis(Alonzo Gee is awesome but….) with the blazers, their gunners….

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EspressoParticipant]

 The biggest problem with Wiggins is definitely because of his laidback nature. It’s A Problem! It’s been happening with him since HS, it happened to him at Kansas, and it’s happening to him in the NBA. It’s really scary because he can be end up as one of those guys who maded as all stars but had top NBA tools.

Either way OP, I can’t answer your question just yet

[EspressoParticipant]

 The biggest problem with Wiggins is definitely because of his laidback nature. It’s A Problem! It’s been happening with him since HS, it happened to him at Kansas, and it’s happening to him in the NBA. It’s really scary because he can be end up as one of those guys who maded as all stars but had top NBA tools.

Either way OP, I can’t answer your question just yet

[Author]

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