share

wiggins

Steven
Registered User
Joined: 01/12/2009
Posts: 792
Points: -398
Offline
wiggins

im watching the first half of this kansas/nova game, and i know im about to hurt many of your feelings, but wiggins is so over-hyped its not even funny. first of all the look he has on his face bugs me for some reason. i know that has nothing to do with the game i just wanted to note that. now for his performance for the first half of the game. he looks so disintertested in playing, hes showing no heart or hustle. hes playing very weak, hes not even jumping for rebounds, hes watching on defense, his jumpshot is broke. his mechanics are there but he has no confidence in that jumper. sorry for the rant, but thats all ive noticed.

parker all the way right now, with marcus smart and julius randle right there as well.


Sewok15
Sewok15's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2011
Posts: 1905
Points: 3430
Offline
Congratulations that makes 20

Congratulations that makes 20 days in a row with at least one "Wiggins is overhyped" thread.

He has the flu by the way and most of us know he is no Michael Jordan. His numbers are pretty much right on par with what those of us with realistic expectations had for him. Nobody thought he was going to score 30 a game and dominate like he was LeBron James.

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5956
Points: 12848
Offline
I predicted this months ago.

I predicted this months ago. Sadly it has come true so early in the season. Everyone who followed them knew Parker would have the better numbers this year yet so many here are so shocked by it.

http://nbadraft.net/forum/andrew-wiggins-destined-underachieve

Steven
Registered User
Joined: 01/12/2009
Posts: 792
Points: -398
Offline
oh, do you come on this

oh, do you come on this website every day?

Steven
Registered User
Joined: 01/12/2009
Posts: 792
Points: -398
Offline
well, when youre projected

well, when youre projected the best prospect since lebron, you expect to see more then what you actually are seeing from him.

LA12
Registered User
Joined: 05/31/2012
Posts: 202
Points: 567
Offline
Best PROSPECT, not best

Best PROSPECT, not best player. Everyone knew Wiggins had things to work on, and we all had realistic expectations on him. I for one had him at averaging around 16 points and 7-8 rebounds.

cg085h
Registered User
Joined: 12/01/2013
Posts: 12
Points: 3
Offline
Prospect

Thats the problem some people say he is the best player in this draft which he is not the two most skilled players in this draft is Parker and Smart. I will say this tho i believe Gordon skill set and work ethic my end up being the best all around player i believe he is the most underrated of the freshman

max23
Registered User
Joined: 06/16/2012
Posts: 164
Points: 400
Offline
Enough with the flu

Enough with the flu talk...Yes right now he is overhyped.If he had been playing like Parker has been,offense and defense,and Parker had been playing like Wiggins has,there would be no conversation about whos better,not even close.But since Wiggins has all this potential...Anyways I've been waiting all season for Kansas to be challenged again,since Duke game,now lets see what Wiggins can do...

Taylor Gang Mike
Taylor Gang Mike's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/07/2011
Posts: 1338
Points: 1618
Offline
TBH.... Wiggins has

TBH.... Wiggins has potential, he needs time. Right now he just does not look like a great player.But hes still gonna be number 1 or 2 based on potential. I see MKG and Corey Brewer now, but he has the potential to be like Scottie or Paul George

Sewok15
Sewok15's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2011
Posts: 1905
Points: 3430
Offline
17 per game on 55% shooting

17 per game on 55% shooting is pretty stellar. If you look at the last 7 #1 picks most of their stats were about the same. Anthony Bennett averaged 16 on 53%. The Brow averaged 14 shooting 62%. Kyrie Irving averaged 17.5 on 53%. Wall averaged 16.5 on 46%. Griffin averaged 23 on 65 %. Rose averaged 15 on 48%.

I'm not here everyday but at least a couple times a week. It isn't that difficult to revived one of the 30 other "Wiggins sucks"that have been put up by other people like you who don't know jack about hoops.

Steven
Registered User
Joined: 01/12/2009
Posts: 792
Points: -398
Offline
dont put words in my mouth. i

dont put words in my mouth. i never said he sucked. and on top of that you dont know who i am, nor can you make an assumption that i dont know jack about hoops, when i played in highschool, i play intramurals in college, and i watch it everyday.

Sewok15
Sewok15's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2011
Posts: 1905
Points: 3430
Offline
-338 speaks for itself.

-338 speaks for itself.

XYRYX
XYRYX's picture
Registered User
Joined: 08/10/2012
Posts: 730
Points: 1564
Offline
and counting...

and counting...

ItsVictorOladipo
ItsVictorOladipo's picture
Registered User
Joined: 08/11/2009
Posts: 2054
Points: 4750
Offline
Have you seen any of his

Have you seen any of his other games this season? I wouldn't describe his jumper as broken...

Sewok15
Sewok15's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2011
Posts: 1905
Points: 3430
Offline
He is hitting a 3 per game on

He is hitting a 3 per game on 36% coming into this game...if that is a broken jumpshot I wonder what an average jumper is?

joecheck88
joecheck88's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/13/2008
Posts: 2820
Points: 2560
Offline
The hate is ridiculous and I

The hate is ridiculous and I get it with what Parker and Randle are doing. I've said it before, I think most basketball minds knew Wiggins would have lesser numbers compared to them both. First off, Wiggins doesn't have the offense run through him. He's letting the game come to him and honestly, him just being on the court is making his team better. Every night he gets the best from opponents. Skill wise, Parker has him. Power and dominance wise, Randle has him. These are right now things though. I think Wiggins has lots of skill just needs the reps. For as "bad" as he has been(which is a joke because he's been great) Kansas is doing well and he is showing the flashes. I'm not hopping off the bandwagon because he is where I though he would be. He just seems to be a guy that Will be a completely different player 25 games in.

Steven
Registered User
Joined: 01/12/2009
Posts: 792
Points: -398
Offline
ive seen 3 of the games this

ive seen 3 of the games this year. i feel that is a good sample size for me to judge his jumpshot. 'broken' jumpshot might be a bit harsh, but i did say his mechanics/form looks fine. it just, it doesnt go in. 36 percent on 3, im pretty sure hes made like 8 all season. so hes approximately only making 1.5 a game (i know my math is off, give me a break its late and i dont have a calculator on me.)

Sewok15
Sewok15's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2011
Posts: 1905
Points: 3430
Offline
Broken would make no sense if

Broken would make no sense if his mechanics are fine. He hasn't made 8 all season...he had made 5 through 5 games...which is where I got the number of 1 per game (didn't even need a calculator). After tonight he was 0-2 from deep but the last one was a desperation 35 footer so that doesn't count. That means he is shooting 33% from behind the arc which is the equivalent of shooting 50% from 2. Only Andrew White has made more 3's for Kansas who's weakness is clearly outside shooting judging from their last two games.

Wiggins hasn't looked great offensively all year outside of the 2nd half of the Duke game. Even when he doesn't appear to have a great game you look at his stats at the end of the game and he usually has 16 or 17 points anyway. Tonight was definitely his worst game offensively and he was too passive for much of the game. He only took 8 shots which was tied with Perry Ellis for 2nd on the team.

I was very impressed with his defense though especially at the end of the game. He had two big blocks at the end of the game (although I don't think he got credit for the one that he nipped off the backboard that led to Mason's go ahead and one play). Then on what could have been the last possession he forced the jumpball. If the arrow wasn't pointed toward Nova they would have been forced to foul and this would have likely been a different outcome (one reason the NBA rule is much better on jumpballs).

The expectations many people have for him are way too high. All of us knew that Parker was more skilled and would put up bigger numbers especially in a Duke system that allows more isolation offense. Once conference play starts and the roles on this team are more defined he will start to look better offensively. Outside of Frank Mason Kansas's guard play has been sub-par so far this year. Nadir Tharpe has been pretty bad to start the year and I would hope that if this continues Self will decide to start Mason...and he should start Embiid as well. Kansas has enough depth that their bench will still be one of the best in the country with moving those two freshmen into the starting lineup.

surve
surve's picture
Registered User
Joined: 03/19/2010
Posts: 2890
Points: 4502
Offline
people took it when he was

people took it when he was hailed as the "best prospect since Lebron" and took that as him being anointed as "the NEXT Lebron". those are two different things.

so far, I like what he is doing and he will improve. its the way he plays the game. he has a calmness and it doesnt even look like he is playing hard. if he were forcing the action he'd be looking dumb. he is letting the game come to him and he has an excellent feel for it....despite what the boxscore says.

Thepessimest
Registered User
Joined: 03/21/2011
Posts: 228
Points: 420
Offline
I think the problem...

..... is that people based there opinions on youtube highlights and Ball Is Life videos. And I aslo think the problem is that scouts are in love with athleticism to the point that they will elevate a player like Wiggins over a player like Parker based soley on athleticism.

So some of the over-reactions to Wiggins' play is based on the fact that our eyes tell us that Parker is a great "BASKETBALL" player and right now Wiggins appears to be a great "ATHLETE". And that is what you are seeing from some of the posters right now.

We know he can cut to the rim and dunk. We know he can get out in transition and be explosive. But I think what some of his critics want to see is some nuance. The ability to navigate through a defense with feel and be a creator. And I don't think in some people's opinion they are seeing that.

I did not see the Villanova game (unfortunately) but it appears he struggled some offensively. I did see him in high school about 3 times and my take away was this:

- Amazing speed and first step.

- Loves driving right

- If you take away drive he almost always spins

- Plays the game with an athletic smoothness that it can appear he is not trying (although he is)

- Streaky jump shooter

- Plays in straight lines (no change of direction moves).

- Plays at one speed (with the ball).

- Jumps quickly

- GREAT Defender.

Those were my takeaways. And so far that is what he has been. He will likely improve significantly. Right now though he is a better athlete than basketball player.

Parker is a great basketball player today whose skill set would allow him to be successful in the NBA right now.

Shoots it well, can post well, great footwork, willing passer...needs to get better defensively and needs to improve his conditioning.

gatorguy3911
Registered User
Joined: 07/10/2012
Posts: 20
Points: 32
Offline
I would add ball handling to

I would add ball handling to the list of things he needs to work on. He was way too loose last night with the rock and Nova took advantage.

I agree about the spin move too. That's his counter move. It's been effective (not so much last night) so far in his career. I just feel at the next level he'll have to diversify his moves and that goes back to my first point.

As a Sixers fan, he's still my #1. It's only November, a lot can change. Still 7 months to go.

Ghost01
Ghost01's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2010
Posts: 2809
Points: 1761
Offline
What is sad about this

What is sad about this thread/this site is that 99% of what Steven said is true, but yet I am totally not surprised by the reaction.

"HES A GREAT PROSPECT HAVE YOU SEEN HIS TWO HANDED SLAM THAT EVERY BLACK PLAYER IN THE NBA COULD DO??? ATHLETICISM!!!! ONCE IN A LIFETIME!!!!OH MY GOD WHO CARES IF HE NEVER SCORES ON PLAYS WHERE HE ACTUALLY HAS TO GET AROUND A DEFENDER, LOOK AT HIS DEFENSIVE POTENTIAL!!! TONY ALLEN 2.0!!!! WHICH SOMEHOW IS THE BEST PROSPECT SINCE KING JAMES!!! ITS ALL BILL SELFS FAULT THEY DONT RUN PLAYS FOR HIM! HE IS SUCH A DEFENDER! HIS FIRST STEP THAT HE IS JUST SAVING FOR THE NBA!!! YEAH WIGGINS IS NOT OVERHYPED AT ALL!!!"

I know I'm getting negged. But I am okay with it. This is what most of you fools sound like. I would loveeeee Wiggins at number 2 because I am a sucker for potential. But short of that last 5 minutes in Kansas' last W, he hasn't shown a damn thing to show he's got NBA star potential.

mouchy18
Registered User
Joined: 11/06/2009
Posts: 156
Points: -116
Offline
I don't understand why people

I don't understand why people get killed on this site when you point out the facts about Wiggins. Right now he is not playing like a 1 overall pick & doesnt pass the eye test. Every freshmen drafted is picked on potential and 80% of them fail to realize lofty expectations. Whose to say he will get that much better? Everyone ignored the fact MKG had no offensive game & thought he would improve to at least be G. Wallace. 1/12 years later we see no signs of such. Its not hate, it's an evaluation, there has been plenty of athletes like Wiggins to play college ball. Gay, derozen, etc...it's the natural skill level of a player that makes them transcendent as he was described he should be

Sewok15
Sewok15's picture
Registered User
Joined: 06/19/2011
Posts: 1905
Points: 3430
Offline
MKG is 20 years old and is

MKG is 20 years old and is getting better. His numbers aren't much better but his shooting percentage has gone up and he is helping his team win games which is the bottom line. Let's at least wait until he can legally drink before we pronounce him a bust.

mouchy18
Registered User
Joined: 11/06/2009
Posts: 156
Points: -116
Offline
I never said he is a bust but

I never said he is a bust but I think it's safe to say he won't be G.wallace. He has received the time and opportunity that G.wallace was not given early. The best MKG will be is a 15 & 7 guy. Back to the point, with his natural skill level he can only achieve but soo much & that may be the case with Wiggins too. You never guaranteed to get better, we often see players regress in the league not get better

mouchy18
Registered User
Joined: 11/06/2009
Posts: 156
Points: -116
Offline
I never said he is a bust but

I never said he is a bust but I think it's safe to say he won't be G.wallace. He has received the time and opportunity that G.wallace was not given early. The best MKG will be is a 15 & 7 guy. Back to the point, with his natural skill level he can only achieve but soo much & that may be the case with Wiggins too. You never guaranteed to get better, we often see players regress in the league not get better

Ghost01
Ghost01's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2010
Posts: 2809
Points: 1761
Offline
I don't get why we judge

I don't get why we judge college players based on what they were hyped as in high school.

If this was the old days, and we hadn't seen one second of these guys before college, we wouldn't think Wiggins was a No.1 pick CANDIDATE, let alone favorite.

He hasn't even shown GREAT athletic ability. He has had a lot of two handed dunks. Big whoop. He needs to improve if he wants to be a star. Like someone noted above, the eye test. You look at Parker or Randle and you see it. They are men among boys. They look like they don't belong on this level. Wiggins looks like a college player, which is fine. But why would I pick someone who looks like a college player when I see two pros? Because he can jump a little bit higher? Until I see any potential for Wiggins to use his athletic skills in a half court offense and make normally tough shots look easy, it is just silly.

Look at Derrick Rose. At the beginning of the season, many thought he would be a top5 pick. But what shot him up to number one was how he was just athletically unfair in by the end of the season. Toying with guys, making impossible shots look ruitine. Not just dunks on fastbreaks and cuts to the rim. Not just defense. That stuff has just another guy written all over it.

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5956
Points: 12848
Offline
To be fair, that last

To be fair, that last paragraph could easily apply to Wiggins by the end of the year too.

Ghost01
Ghost01's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2010
Posts: 2809
Points: 1761
Offline
To be fair, that could apply

To be fair, that could apply to plenty of people IF they suddenly put it together.

Hale
Hale's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/08/2009
Posts: 5956
Points: 12848
Offline
As a Memphis fan I can

As a Memphis fan I can definitely tell you that Derrick Rose was substantially better at the end of the year than he was at the beginning of the year. I expect Wiggins to be the same way.

Ghost01
Ghost01's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2010
Posts: 2809
Points: 1761
Offline
Understood. But Rose and

Understood. But Rose and Wiggins games a virtually nothing alike. It was just a comparison of how athletic potential can actually be substantiated in performance.

Rose did have 24 @ UConn and 26 vs Cincy early in the season in close games. I agree he definitely vastly improved, but you saw the flashes.

machu46
Registered User
Joined: 06/21/2012
Posts: 993
Points: 1615
Offline
Wiggins has had some very

Wiggins has had some very good games as well. 22 and 8 against their biggest opponent of the year, while disrupting Jabari on the defensive end and pretty much sealing the game for Kansas.

Rose also had games early on like scoring 4 points against Arkansas State and 4 points against Middle Tennessee.

At the end of the day, Wiggins is playing some of the best defense in the country while also leading a top 5 team in scoring, and he's shown an ability to play off of people that you don't get a chance to see in his highlight mixes. I like what I'm seeing from him for the most part. He can improve the form on his jumper and work on that ball-handling a bit, but I honestly think he could average 15 a game in the NBA just off of his cuts, the way he runs the floor, tip-ins, and the occasional spin move or step back that he does. And I think he can play great defense from Day 1 as well. And that's just the floor for him IMO.

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 8333
Points: 16987
Offline
Wiggins had a bad tournament,

Wiggins had a bad tournament, there is no way around that, but the micro analysis is getting old.

@machu46 ,Wiggins is a good defender and projects as a two way player, but he's only lock down in moments. He's playing good defense, but he's not one of the best defenders in the country yet...a lot of that takes experience...maybe by the end of the year, but he's got a long way to go before he's Aaron Craft level ( IMO, the best perimeter defender in college).

I'm a supporter of him due to my college aliance, but he had a rough week. No, that doesn't make him bad, but he needs to work on moving without the ball, and if he does post up, he needs to do more than stand there with his arm up in the air. He also was battling illness, so if his energy level seemed a little lower than normal, I'm willing to give him a pass. The Battle 4 Atlantis didn't make him a bad player. He's just human, and I fully expect him to bounce back, especially by conference time, but this game to game postage saying he sucks after a sub par game or he's awesome after a good game doesn't really change anything.

What Andrew Wiggins is right now, is a very long, very natrually gifted young guy who has a nice skillset to build on. He can drive, he has some range, and he has some handle. If Wiggins can continue to grow and build on what he does, he can be an All-Star, and I feel his floor is pretty high as well.

Hype can sour your opinions, I know that. I was shocked and very very low on him when I saw Shabazz overweight playing against G-Town, but I got over it and made my own conclusions. Wiggins' hype will continue to follow him, and I think he'll continue to improve, but if you're expecting Lebron James...well...just don't. He's got a ways to go, but he's still a really good player considering he's not as polished as a Jabari Parker. This "over hyped" guy is still averaging 15 ppg on 50% shooting and showing flashes. It's on him to put it all together, but he has 7 months before the draft.

Ghost01
Ghost01's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2010
Posts: 2809
Points: 1761
Offline
"I was shocked and very very

"I was shocked and very very low on him when I saw Shabazz overweight playing against G-Town"

Well, you probably were right to be very low on him...

JoeWolf1
JoeWolf1's picture
Registered User
Joined: 05/28/2009
Posts: 8333
Points: 16987
Offline
My point being, if he wasn't

My point being, if he wasn't hyped as a freak athlete worthy of Kobe comparisons, I probably wouldn't have been as critical. I initially overlooked what he did well, and focused on why he wasn't the next greatest thing.

I'm not surprised by his limited rookie role, but he still could develop into a scoring punch off the bench or starter down the line. I don't think he'll be an All-Star, but I think he was worth the risk at 14. He's just not ready enough where he could beat out Kevin Martin, Brewer, or Luc for major minutes.

Ghost01
Ghost01's picture
Registered User
Joined: 11/30/2010
Posts: 2809
Points: 1761
Offline
That is true, but he mostly

That is true, but he mostly looks like a guy who has no business playing in the NBA right now.

They just traded for Mbah a Moute, and before then, the T Wolves really weren't getting a ton of production out of their wing players. Martin and Brewer were both starting, and they were plugging in a variety of ineffective players behind them. If Shabazz had showed anything, he probably would have gotten a better chance to play a bit more.

RSS: Syndicate content