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Why stay in college?

Entropy
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Why stay in college?

Often i here people saying that students should stay in college another year to help there development, even for those people who are projected in the first round. I don't really understand this, why should a player stay in college where they are distracted by there academics? In the NBA they get more practice time, better facilities and coaches, better competition (during training etc, even if they don't get actually game time).

So what is the logic behind telling students to stay in college, especially those projected to get a garunteed contract?


Allen_Iverson_3
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First and foremost, like you

First and foremost, like you say, people tend to say this about players who should need another year to develop. This year's draft class include players such as Tony Wroten, Marquis Teague, Quincy Miller, and arguably some others such as Austin Rivers, Will Barton or even Meyers Leonard and Dion Waiters, and I'm not even including those who will not be drafted. Other examples in my mind are Daniel Orton, Tommy Mason-Griffin and Tiny Gallon. We don't say such things of NBA-ready players like Davis, Barnes or T-Rob.

There are several pretty simple reasons for this to be said:

-When you play in college, you have more time to practice than in the NBA since you play less games. This facilitates player development. The facilties in the best colleges, which these players come from, are very good, maybe not as much as in the NBA, but still very good. If you follow the game enough, you'll know that NBA players mostly improve during the offseason (best example of that is Nowitzki) rather than during the season when recuperation is crucial.

-In college, coaches are more centered on developing their players for them to go into the NBA. Though at the surface both college and NBA coaches need to get results, college coaches from the elite teams, in which most of the top prospects are spread out, don't have the same pressure as they have the better players so they are guaranteed to win games (Example: John Calipari). Therefore, college coaches can play their prospects, and these prospects get PLAYING TIME, which they don't get in the NBA as they are not fully ready to play. Playing time is essential in a young player's career because it puts him in a match situation, with the pressure and all that stuff. I recently read an article on French prospect Lahaou Konaté, who shot 20% behind the arc this season, but of whom his coach says that he does phenomenal things during training sessions. The only thing is that he isn't fully accustomed to game-like situations and to the pressure generated. In the NBA, this type of prospects goes to the D-League where they play, but trust me after watching many games I can say that the D-League is more of a free-for-all league where everybody wants to shine to be called up rather than a place where you can play organized basketball. Therefore, it is much better for a prospect to stay in college rather than to play in the D-League, where he will not be as much NBA-ready.

So yes, there's that temptation to earn money and a guaranteed contract immediately, but for some prospects it is better to sacrifice a year or two of pay to get a bigger contract, stay a long time in the league and earn more money.

Seamo15
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Too get a edukayshun inkase u

Too get a edukayshun inkase u bust up yo nees

TomShoe
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Do you want to end up like

Do you want to end up like this?

Or this?

Anton123
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Actulally getting drafted

Actulally getting drafted lower isn't bad, this is why I don't really understand boosting your stock, I mean I'm sure Tony Wroten and Teague will benefit from getting drafted by a good team instead of the freaking Bobcats.

And in the longterm these guys will get more money and better contracts if they develop well

rwd5035
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If I was a student athlete,

If I was a student athlete, and a 1st round potential NBA prospect, I'd look to leave too. Let's see, play for free, or make $1 million +. The choice is very easy, especially for some of these guys since they aren't already rich.

Let's just say one of us was a Finance major, and a major firm approaches you as a freshman or sophomore. They say they love your raw talent, and want you to join the firm. They think they can teach you everything else, and you'll earn $75k year one, $100k year two, with options for a pay raise for the two years after those. How many of us would stay in school? I'd be willing to bet none of us would.

rwd5035
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Let's not try and compare Tim

Let's not try and compare Tim Duncan to any freshman flameouts in the NBA. Every 4 year player doesn't become Tim Duncan, and every 1 year player doesn't become Tyrus Thomas (don't really understand the Kwame Brown comparison since he never went to school).

mosdef
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Its a longterm financial

Its a longterm financial view.

68% of the NBA are financially broke 5 years after retirement. If you take the average of the career of a NBA player then they still have a college degree to fall back on instead of struggling and going over to Europe or China. If you parents are well off too it can help you stay. Take Grant Hill, his parents were well off. He got his degree. Even with his ankle getting busted he still had the degree. In College Football, Andrew Luck had his pops as did the Mannings. They stayed. The lure of the instant big money is tempting but as you see by the 68%, it goes quickly

Meditated States
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Kwame did well for himself

Basketball and skipping College was good for him. Bet he was in the hood before that move. I think you should come out if your first round almost guaranteed. I know lots of people who went to college got degrees and make less than I do. They just got crazy student loans owed. Don't risk hurting your knee and guys get better in the pro's. College does not allow you to even play your NBA position all the time therefore you don't practice things you will d most. Go pro if your first round guaranteed.

rwd5035
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College football is different

College football is different though because you have to stay for a minimum of three years. So I don't see that as a relevant comparison here mosdef.

68% of NBA players are going broke 5 years after retiring, that's an alarming statistic. Makes me believe that teams should take more responsibility with players off of the floor.

JoeWolf1
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If you're good, the NBA will

If you're good, the NBA will be there waiting for you. Draft status only gets you so far, you have to make a spot for yourself in the league regardless of where you are picked.

If you are indeed a legit first round pick, the difference between being the 8th pick or the 23rd pick, in the long run, isn't that much.

Even if you stay and teams cool on you a bit, you'll still have a shot. There is no need to rush things. Risking an injury is the main risk, but more often than not, that doesn't happen.

When you're going to retire at age 28-38 then I think making the best long term decision is paramount. Even if you wait til you are a junior to come out, you're only a year away from a college degree.

Kenny Anderson made tens millions of dollars as an NBA player, but just recently graduated from college because money comes and goes. He blew his money and wanted a better life for himself. You hear people who experienced the NBA first hand, say that they wish they finished college all the time. You never hear a 50 year old NBA player who graduated college say he wishes he came out after his sophomore year.

NJHooper95
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Catch 22

If you are projected as a top three pick there is no need to return to school, your stock can only go down. Terrence Morris would have possible been the #1 pick had he come of college his sophomore year at Maryland, instead he stayed to his senior year and ened up a late second round pick. If you are an unknown then you should stay in school and boost your stock, but the NBA seems to cool off on guys who come back to school, even for a year. Yeah you have exceptions, but the NBA has been in this potential era for about a decade now, and they feel if you are a junior or senior then your potential is limited.

Its all about when you name is hot. Tyshawn Taylor stock has dropped over four years, but he is a better player now than he was as a freshman or sophomore when his stock was higher. It also depends on what school you are at, you cant afford to stay too many years at a power house where they are recruiting at you position every year. You could easily end up starting one year and then coming off the bench for a freshman. Every situation is different, but the NBA is sold on potential and most of the time if you remain in school your window closes instead of opening.

rwd5035
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Joe, people shouldn't expect

Joe, people shouldn't expect these kids to pass up on this money, especially since some of them have grown up from poor families. These kids have a chance to make 3-5 million over two years minimum (some as much 8-13m), and most likely, unless they are completely terrible will get at least one of the options picked up, so that's more guaranteed money.

Let's look at a current comparison between Tyrus Thomas and Tyler Hansbrough. Both were freshman when the 2006 draft rolled around. Thomas left, Hansbrough stayed three more years. By the time Hansbrough came out, Thomas had already made $10.515 million. Then, after Hansbrough's rookie season, Thomas signed a 5 year 40 million dollar deal. Regardless of how we feel about Thomas as a player, by the end of the 2014 season, he'll have made approximately $51 million to Hansbrough's $13 million + whatever he gets after being as a restricted free agent. This may not be the best comparison, but iirc, Hansbrough could've been drafted around the same area when he was a freshman (as a lottery pick).

How many elite athletes stay in college for four years? They don't, and they shouldn't because the ability to make money, and for teams to take chances on you far outweigh a potential degree. If Thomas wants to get a degree after his career is over, then he can go get one, he'll have the money. Who knows what Tyler's future will be after his career is over, and I'm sure he'll be fine because he strikes me as a bright kid. But, he passed up on this money earlier in his career, and a team might be more likely to take a shot at a 24 year old Hansbrough, than a 27 or 28 year old Hansbrough in a few years as an RFA. He probably cost himself at least $5-8 million in his career by not coming out earlier.

invalid
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if kwame goes to college he

tom, if kwame goes to college he will be like duncan? if kobe goes.. then?

JoeWolf1
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I'm not saying kids shouldn't

I'm not saying kids shouldn't come out in certain situations. I can't fault B.J. Mullens coming out because his family was broke. I just think that too many guys come out when they could benefit from another year of maturation on the court and as men.

I also understand that a great NCAA tournament run cannot easily be duplicated, thus Tyrus Thomas made the right decision because his stock wouldn't have been higher.

That extra 5-8 million may completely negated because a 19 year old's business decisions may be considerably worse than that same guy at 21. I understand trying to maximize one's money making opportunities, but I also think maturation and making smarter decisions out of the gate can make up for a couple years playing in college while a peer is in the league.

I'm not saying everyone should stay 4 years, just that staying in college can really help one's chances as well.

bloodshy
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Raw Numbers

From a financial perspective, there is little incentive for a player to stay in school if they would be drafted in the top 10. At that point a player will be making $2-5M/year. If they really want to get a degree, they can do it on-line or during the summer or some other way even while in the NBA during their video game time. And by not going pro, they have a very real financial risk. Last year PJ3 would have gone 3-6. He's now 5-14. Sully was 3-5. He's now 9-20. Barnes was 2-4. He's now 2-7. In each case, the player is likely to lose millions because they chose to stay after a solid freshman season. Beal is currently 2-7. What would happen if he stayed another year and had similar numbers? What if his 3pt% declined slightly?

That said, there is frequently a very real financial incentive to stay if you're late first round or second round. Kendall Marshall was a fringe first rounder last year. By staying and improving he is now 6-14. Jimmer moved from a similar spot to being drafted #10. The #10 pick gets $1.8M/year starting and about $8M over four years. The #30 pick gets $.8M starting and about $3.6M over four years. Clearly, if another year would move you up 20 slots, it was probably a good call. And this move (from 2nd round to early first round) happens frequently.

The one other consideration is that if you are a legitimate star (good luck predicting this), getting into the league sooner always makes financial sense as it will get you beyond your 4-year rookie contract faster, moving you to the max contract arena.

Overall, I would hesitate to advise a player to stay in college if they were projected in the lotto. The risks of missing that $7-19M are too great. On the other hand, staying another year for a player like Marquise Teague or Tony Wroten might have been a very good idea, since both are likely to improve their stock in a second season.

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I suspect there is a lot less

I suspect there is a lot less practicing in the NBA than you think once the regular season starts. Do you think Paul Pierce goes hard in practice anymore? No way. He is conserving himself for the games and waiting for the playoffs. Also if you don't get game time and an offense built around you it is tough to develop as a scorer.

You should leave school as soon as you have gotten your stock as high as it will go. You want that first guaranteed contract, the shoe endorsement, the local TV ads, and other stuff that allows you to make the money you were not allowed to make in college. You can always set aside $100,000 to go back and get your degree if you want to later.

mouchy18
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Reality is, if your projected

Reality is, if your projected to be a 1st rd pick you should leave because your more then likely to hurt your stock rather then help with another year of scrutiny and another incoming freshmen class. It happens every year, for example Sulli, Barnes, and Perry Jones were all projected to be top 5 picks last yr & all saw there stock drop...Their are exceptions but they are mainly for guys who had limited playing time such as T-Robb and Waiters who elevated their stock. But overall you have to go get your millions of dollars while the opportunity is there because at the end of the day its about taking care of their famlies and not entertaining us college basketball fans

Thomas C.K.
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Staying In School

I can understand leaving college early if you are projected as a lottery pick or mid-first rounder, but guys like Will Barton, Troy Wroten, J'Covan Brown, John Jenkins and Doron Lamb could go in the 2nd round. Would it really hurt those guys to come back another year and dominate college ball? And for those of you saying guys like Jared Sullinger and Harrison Barnes hurt their draft stock by returning, you never truly know where most players will go until the draft. J.Sullinger could still go very high in this draft

I don't know if Tyrus Thomas and Tyler Hansbrough is a fair comparison because T.Thomas was projected as a top 3 pick, T.Hansbrough was never projected to go that high. T.Hansbrough is actually a great example for players to follow because his draft projections we're all over the place during his year at UNC, so he stayed in school, worked hard, improved and ended up being a lottery pick. People like to put out the perception that if you stay in school for more than 2 years, you must be a terrible player. Marshawn Brooks was one of the top rookies in the NBA last year and he was a 4-year player. Staying in school and becoming the best player you can be(and obtaining or coming close to obtaining a college degree) isn't necessarily a bad thing.

rwd5035
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Thomas, the point for

Thomas, the point for Hansbrough was he would've been drafted in the same place three years ago, iirc. The 06 draft was fairly weak. I think he would've went late lottery, mid first round. He could've gotten the money he already has three years ago.

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I think college give players

I think college give players time to grow physically and mentally as people. Once basketball becomes a job, it is different. Every players is great. You are playing a ton more games. There may be better practice facilities and less college distractions but being in the NBA opens up more distractions. I thint there are players who would have been better with another year of college. I understand what you are asking because Barnes and Sully lost position because they stayed but they are better players and should come in ready to play.

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I think college basketball is

I think college basketball is more fun...simple as that.

TomShoe
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Why? Here's Why

What keeping players in school longer does for the NBA is that it protects the owners from themselves.

When a highly touted prospect comes to the NBA right out of high school, teams are almost compelled to choose them based on the fact that they're scared of missing out on the next KG or the next LeBron. Making prospects stay in school an extra 1 or 2 years gives NBA talent evaluators more time to get a better feel on how skilled a prospect is, and their strengths or weaknesses, and give them a better idea on who do draft.

In the case of Kwame, had he gone to college a year or two, scouts probably would have keyed in on his bad hands and poor offensive game, drafting him more likely in the mid-to-late 1st round insted of 1st overall.

Tim Duncan probably would have been Tim Duncan had he stayed 1 or 4 years, so that's pretty irrelevant.

Thomas C.K.
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rwd

rwd, there seemed to be a LOT of knocks(wingspan, quickness, athleticism) on Tyler Hansbrough's game, even after his senior year. I don't know if he would've gone #13 overall had he come out earlier. I recall some people being surprised that he went that high in the draft. He seemed to have more detractors of his NBA potential than supporters, that probably scared him off from turning pro early.

Thomas Robinson is a great example of how staying and dominating college can help a player. He probably could have been a late 1st round pick had he come out last year, but he stayed in school and dominated and could go as high as #2 in this draft.

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"So what is the logic behind

"So what is the logic behind telling students to stay in college, especially those projected to get a garunteed contract?"

The first contract is guaranteed for two years with the third year option made after one season. When a player is not good enough or ready enough to get on the court as a rookie, he is exposing himself to possibly not having that third year option picked up and then spending his second year as someone who is really just another expiring contract (ala Daniel Orton). So Orton makes $2 million (or slightly less after accounting for the checks missed due to the lockout), and now as someone who would otherwise be going into his senior college season will spend this summer trying to get a league minimum, make-good contract.

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Yeah but Robinson got to

Yeah but Robinson got to start and be the focus of a good offense. Most guys that leave early have already gotten that so it is harder to stay and raise your stock.

Also leaving gets you one more year of paid ball before you get old. For an average player who makes it and sticks in the league that year is worth about $5 Million!

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tomshoe, so this player

tomshoe, so this player staying in college thing is only for the sake of nba scouts. by your logic, kwame is right that he declaired early, else he would have dropped off. and tim is going to be the great tim duncan even if he goes early so why stay in college? that seems irrelevant for the player to wait if he's going to be good anyway. then in your first post you should have put the people who actually drafted them and not the actual player

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Why stay in college ?Just

Why stay in college ?

Just ask Josh Selby or Cory Joseph...........

Chicago1980
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If you are going to be

If you are going to be guaranteed a contract then there is no point of staying in school. College is not for everybody if u enter the draft early and fail thats life now u go out and find a job. I dont know y people make a big deal about it regular people drop out of college everyday but people always make a big deal out of athletes doing it. If u were in college and was offered a chance to make millions if u left early then most of the people complaining would absolutely do the same thing i know i would. Just my humble opinion.

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"If you are going to be

"If you are going to be guaranteed a contract then there is no point of staying in school. College is not for everybody if u enter the draft early and fail thats life now u go out and find a job. I dont know y people make a big deal about it regular people drop out of college everyday but people always make a big deal out of athletes doing it. If u were in college and was offered a chance to make millions if u left early then most of the people complaining would absolutely do the same thing i know i would. Just my humble opinion."

It is guaranteed for two years. After taxes, union dues, and agent fees, Daniel Orton probably came away with $1 million. It is probably a slightly higher pay amount for Craig Brackins who will also be a FA this summer. It is never a universal "wrong" for a guy to leave early. Some guys don't like school or family issues where they need to make what they can get. Others just have lousy relationships with their coaches. There is also a crop of guys who are undersized 2-guards who will never be anything more than fringe NBA prospects and are willing to head oversees and begin their career there. I tip my cap to Jonathan Gibson. Who know, maybe Tommy Mason-Griffin is making six figures in Germany and that is more than he'd make at OU. That said, the goal of a high end prospect entering the NBA from a financial perspective should be to get to a true second contract, a multi-year contract for market rate pay. The best way to get to that point is to not enter the NBA until he is ready to play in the NBA. It is not the only way to NBA success. There is a good portion of the league who has gotten in the hard way (NBDL, Summer League, Europe, PR, Mexico, China, etc), but it is the more difficult path. High draft picks are guys who walk in the door with the organization having invested money, emotion, and energy in them. Everyone in there wants them to succeed. All things being equal, a player should prefer that route.

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