Why the Knicks are undercover Winners
First off, Good Luck to LeBron. I know he didn't come to NY and went to MIA. He made the best choice. Miami has 2 other stars and they could win titles on titles. I have no issue with him leaving Cleveland because they were not going to win a title. LeBron is not hurting his legacy, he's only enhancing it.
Anyway, I saw a couple people saying NY failed. I don't think so at all. The Knicks are one of the winners. First was Amare Stoudemire. He was a huge addition. He will average at least 20 points and 8 rebounds next season. Then? Highway Robbery. David Lee got 6 years/80 million and we got the pieces to a solid team. Kelenna is a shooter who is coveted in a D'Antoni system. Turiaf could be the defensive Center or the bench big. Either way, he still provides the Knicks need from at least one big man.
Anthony Randolph? The one man we all agreed is right there in terms of upside? Some people called him Lamar Odom like. If Randolph can remain healthy, I fully believe that Randolph can post numbers like 18ppg and 8rpg. If that happens, The Knicks got 3 pieces for 1 player. Also, this allows Danillo Gallinari to stay at the small forward position. That could mean the Knicks could have 3 6-10 players play from the 3-5 positions.
Oh, Did I mention the Knicks still have more cap space? Yes. David Lee's cap hold for his rights were 10 million. This means we still have cap space around 6.5-7.5 million. This gives the Knicks the ability to get a point guard. Luke Rindour or Raymond Felton could be great to Amare to allow some pick and roll action.
Kelenna- Turiaf- Douglas- Walker
Winners? If knicks fans were hoping for the last 2 years to use the summer of 2010 to put together a 45 win team, then sure they won.
You forget, the Knicks weren't real players in the LBJ race until the trade deadline. We didn't have the pieces like everyone else and came up short.
Knicks fans should feel like Winners. If Randolph can stay healthy, he will be the Most Improved Player This year. This also helps Gallo because he won't have to play the 4.
Im not buying it. Years of "Wait til the summer of 2010" and that terrible trade last season with houston where they gave up hill, a 1st rounder and the rights to another 1st rounder all to clear max space for two stars just didnt pan out. Now the knicks have to make the playoffs becasue they wont have lottery picks.
This team is starting to look like the Suns team that would've went to the Finals (that Horry incident.....Don't even like talking about it lol) a number of seasons ago.
Anthony Randolph can function as a Boris Diaw type. He has the ability to play 5 positions (although he's not quite big/strong enough to play more than limited spurts at the 5 spot), can play out of the triple threat and can rebound. The difference between Randolph and Diaw is Randolph is much more likely to look to score out of the triple threat and in the post than pass, contrary to Diaw. He also isn't the defender Diaw was.
Amare is Amare. We know what he brings in terms of P-'n-R play and his athleticism and physical ability.
Gallinari can function as the Quentin Richardson type knockdown shooter from the wing and he's also a similarly rebounder from the wing as Richardson was.
Now if they get a PG that can create for others and make their shots (Luke Ridnour comes to mind), and Wilson Chandler continues to score and defend at a solid rate, this Knicks team could be a solid playoff team next year. Not one that would advance past the 1st round though.
staring to look like the suns of old, now all they are missing is the mvp of the nba to run the show. Im sure that is right around the corner.
Thanks Iggy because some people can not see this and on top of that they should still have max money when Curry contract is off the books to get another max guy. so knick fans are getting a 40 to 45 win team first year and maybe a 55 plus team the 2nd year. Right now they will have 11 to 12 player on their roster and they are all 28 or under. How is that not success. They may also get Kevin Pritchard as Gm.
it's not success becasue that date for getting it turned around was this summer. Thats what they have been saying all along and its why they traded all those picks. Now you guys are talking about next summer, just wait. I dont remember donnie walsh and knicks fans saying wait to the summer of 2011 for the last 2 years. And next summer there is no gaurantee they get a max player. How confident can people be that melo will go there.
I think if they make the playoffs next year its a success. Knicks FANS may have been overly optimistic, but most from the outside in knew that they weren't going to get a Lebron or Dwyane Wade. They have been a laughingstock for a little past 5 years or so, so if they can field a playoff team, you have to consider that a success. Especially if you had realistic expectations for the team like I did.
iggy, i would agree if they didnt give up the picks. I think people are seriously underrating what a bunch of first rounders means to a team rebuilding. Add in that David Lee was lost who had an all star season and was their mvp, i cant see amare and anthony randolph as the big cherry on top of what they were hoping for.
J Iggy I am going to ask your opinion about something.
First I am a huge Durant fan so dont get this wrong but who has a higher ceiling to you Kevin Durant or Anthony Randolph and what are you thoughts on it.
lilperez if you look at their roster now they got back enough talent to cover up for those missed picks. Who did they really miss out on that they have no replace or could possibly replace now that they have money or what not.
I like the David Lee trade. They needed depth and still picked up some young talent and all they gave up was a duplicate of Amare. Also they didnt lose any flexibility for next year in free agency. Who knows maybe Parker and Melo will go to NY?
P.S. How is that Jared Jeffries trade looking now?
I think Durant has H.O.F potential and he has built towards reaching it. Randolph has All-Star potential.
Durant has more upside than Randolph does and it's actually by a sizeable margin.
Randolph has some nice scoring potential and shot-blocking and rebounding abiltiy, but Durant is one of the best scorers I've ever seen. And he also is probably a better rebounder than Randolph is too. The only advantage Randolph may have over Durant is the fact that he is a more aggressive shot-blocker and is a slightly more willing passer.
sheltwon, jordan hill and then the possibility of having to switch picks with houston next year and then losing their 2012 pick as well. We wont know how important those picks are until they come up and we see how hill develops. I guess im not as high on amare/gallo/randolph as you guys. Maybe ill be wrong, but basically the knicks are still in a rebuilding phase. I know thats not what the NY fans on here were talking about since i joined thise site.
I agree that Durant has HOF potential but Durant is closer to his ceiling than Randolph and he has been the man for OKC while Randolph was stuck in GSW. So if Randolph puts up really Good stats better than his last years stats in GSW would you revisit your stance on that. I like Durant but I dont think he is a better rebounder than Randolph and I know Randolph is a better defender with or without the blocks.
Durant is a smart passer but Randolph can make point guard type passes when he wants to
Durants one weakness is his defense but he has gotten better though. Also Randolph can do pretty much everything Durant can except shoot from the perimeter and Durant has a higher basketball IQ in my opinion. I think if you put Randolph in the same situation as Durant got, his numbers would be comparable.
Second question What do you see that Durant can do that Randolph can't.
lilperez Randolph will be better than Hill and with Amare you don't need Hill anyway. Also those swap should not matter much because knicks should have a 40 win team and Houston could win 50 or 55 games and considering how bad people draft where you can get a 1st round talent in the second round, is that really that bad plus now that Knicks have their people they can move up and down the draft if they want.
Knicks overall are slight losers this off-season. They had a terrible draft! Amare was a good pickup but they PAID for him.
I always thought LeBron was going to the Knicks... I really did. I thought he wanted to be a billionaire, a global icon, really enhance his legacy & his brand, be in the bright lights of NYC. Apparently LeBron didn't care about being in the spotlight. He didn't want all that pressure. He was tired of solely carrying a team on his back. Ultimately it was all about winning for LeBron which surprised me. If all he cared about was winning then the King made the correct choice. The Heat are loaded. All you have to do is surround Wade, Bosh, & LeBron with shooters & big post players. Miami can & will find some cheap physical big men & sharpshooters. Chalmers is a good enough PG to manage the game. Miami will only get stronger from here on through the draft, free agency, etc.. Who wouldn't want to play in Miami with those stars? I see 4 titles in the next 5 seasons for the Heat!
Back to the Knicks: I don't like the David Lee trade. Remember, I am a huge Anthony Randolph fan. I see his potential but the fact is he hasn't produced yet. David Lee is a really good player, a proven player. Turiaf & Azuibuke are good role bench players but they aren't really factors. I mean the Knicks should've just signed David Lee & kept him.. pairing him with Amare. They would've been a better team that way.
Draft Grade- F. Yeah, there were at least 15, maybe 20 players I would've drafted in the 2nd round ahead of Rautins & Fields. Willie Warren?, Lance Stephenson?, Varnado?, Ebanks?, Alabi?. I mean even some undrafted players like Torrance, Landesberg, Manny Harris would've been better than Rautins & Fields. Wow
Free Agency Grade- C+. Amare is a solid player but he needs help. He can't carry a team by himself. Plus the Knicks gave him a ton of cash. Hopefully he can learn to play better defense.
Trade Grade- C+. The Knicks gained some depth. Randolph has some unique skills & a ton of potential. Still David Lee is better than Randolph & may always be.
Overall this was just a disappointing offseason for the KNICKS
plus another pick on top of hill and the switch with houston. And when you realize they gave all of that up for jared jeffries simply to get cap space this summer and jeffries would have had no effect on next years cap, yeah, that trade is looking like a big old back fire right now. Besides, they could have got randolph for lee and kept those picks which is what im getting at. If they were ready to win 50 games and compete for a title, then i wouldnt worry about the picks. BUt as of right now, there is no gaurantee they make the playoffs.
Also if you look at Galinari's second year stats that could be like his rookie year since he did not play at all his rookie year because of injuries, he has put up number comparable to Dirk and Bargnani. He should be better than Bargnani because right now he is a better defender than both of those players at the same age. How good do you guys see him being and how soon. I think he can average 20 point next season on 50% shooting 45% for 3pt and 88% ft and with 7 or 8 boards.
he averaged 15.1 points and 4.9 rb on 42% fg and 38 % 3pt and 81% ft
If the Knicks are winners from free agency 2010, so are the Raptors and Cavaliers.
lilperez no one knew Lebron, Wade and Bosh would take less money like that. A lot of things happen that were kind of surprising. Knicks made moves and right now they are not in a terrible position.
with 30 teams in the NBA you have to get better, younger, and maintain flexibility and New York did all those things.
The did not miss out of anything big from where they would have picked except for that pick that they gave CHI in the Eddy Curry deal which would have been Lamarcus Alridge.
Next year when Knicks have a 55 win team and two max guys with great young players and mad depth will all of this be a failure.
Knicks were stuck with no flexibility and bad contracts so this is great position for them to be in. I hope they do not panic and overpay for anyone.
They can pick up Livingston on the cheap
gator aint see you in a minute
The had a bad draft I will admit that because Stephenson is looking like a true steal and he could have been the new point guard of the Knicks.
I guess we measure success differently. You guys were expecting best case scenario. I kind of knew it was not going to happen but I did think at one point it could.
Where they were before to where they are now is a big difference. They have the cap space to be even better and they are younger. Knicks I remember has always been stuck with veteran big contracts. This way they can keep the young talent they want and only add the best players to this team. They have a year to see what young player they like and the ones that need to be moved. They picked up some solid veteran that are tough and can play D. They need a point guard though.
Hey is gator and igg the same person
wsup sheltwon. yeah i haven't been on here much... been busy with work
lol, nah me & Iggy aren't the same person
The way this is working out for the Knicks.... they are making David Kahn look good. Kahn added a lot of talent (Pelovic/Webster/W.Johnson/Beasley) and didn't have to mortgage their future by giving up draftpicks and young players to do it the way Walsch did for the Knicks. Add Rubio next year to the team next season.... things aren't looking to bad for the Wolves.
Anthony Randolph can't defend or rebound better than Durant. He's probably the same level rebounder, but he's not as good a defender. Randolph is actually a bad man to man defender who struggles to guard any particular position. And he doesn't play with much effort on this end, not as much as Durant does (which is saying something....Durant conserves a lot of his energy defensively so he can be as effective as possible offensively).
And you said what can Randolph do that Durant can't do? He can't score like Durant can. Durant does everything Randolph does scoring the ball, except 2 times better. It sounds like you're trying to make a case that Randolph will be better than Durant. I hope you're smarter than that man.
Knicks did pretty good but they aren't looking like the old suns. qrich was a much better defender then gallo Randolph also isn't that good of a defender They picked up good players but nashless Amare equals lee so that equals out. They lost al harringtons scoring and rebounding as well as the lil scoring,passing that duhon and Sergio brought which wasn't much but enough to be more them what turif contributed to the warriors. If they can add Felton then they can probably be a first round exit playoff team. It wasn't a bad offseason for the knicks but I'm pretty sure fans havnt been watching the knicks trade away picks and free up cap space for this. Even though this is exactly what some people(including me) said would happen, that they would get better but slowly and that some knicks fans needed to think realisticly.
Randoplh is the same level anything that durant is and he's hasn't proved he is so we can't say he's the same level anything. For 2 years fans of his have been saying how much all star talent he has and potential and blah blah. I say nope untill he proves it. I'm sure his stats will be inflated with the knicks all offense mindset but it doesn't mean much if it doesn't lead to wins. I also won't compare him to odom because he's not as good as odom
now or when odom first came into the NBA
I don't understand how the Knicks can be losers if they've improved their team by 10 wins, got significantly younger, and maintained cap flexibility. All these things the Knicks haven't done in 10 years. As sad as it is, this has been one of the best offseason for the Knicks in years, and that just speaks to the perverse "preserve mediocrity" mantra the Knicks were run under. No, the Knicks didn't get that Marquee player, and that happens. But the Knicks could have done what they always did, and overspend for mediocre talent. They DIDN'T! They instead traded what amounted to be an expendable asset for young talented players.
How is this a loss? Its not the biggest win, but given what was out of their control, they made the best of their situation. This is a team that will improve, and I look forward to it. And I can't see how you can suggest the Cavs, which will be at least 25 games worse has had the equal offseason of the Knicks. Now you're just hatin.
Yea it's not a lose at all. It's a small win but it's not a lose or undercover win either
I still say small win!