Seems like certain posters automatically get negged no matter what they post...The guys that dont follow the crowd and give repetative answers to every question asked...
Here are example Bias
1 poster can say Trey Burke would be perfect for Orlando with the 2nd pick or that Nerlens Noel could drop down to a team like Phoenix and they wont get negged, but another poster can say the same thing and get a few points ...
I bring alot of this up because I've been drawing a lot of negative feed back for posting very common opinions
Things most of us agree on...
1. Nerlens Noel is a rail thin shot blocker with 0 offensive polish and a Bum knee who shouldn't be taken # 1 overall
2. Ben Mclemore is nothing more but a Dunk and 3 Sg right now with below average ball handling ability and the potential to fade into the backround, and we all can agree should not be a top 3 pick this year, Cleveland has Waiters, Orlando has Affalo and Washington has Beal, Ben Mclemore should go 4th to The Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets to join Kemba and MKG or even as far down as Phoenix to replace the loss of Shannon Brown
3. Otto Porter is a great role player BUT he should not be taken #1 overall by the Cavs, he's the perfect guy for the Wizards at 3
4. Olapido is great player but its so hard to tell what team takes him in the top 10. The Cavs have Waiters, the Magic have Affalo, The Wizards have Beal, The Bobcats/Hornets have a similar combo in MkG and Gerald Henderson. The Team I think could jump 1st is Phoenix at 5 who could use a shot in the arm in Defense, but if they pass for some reason the Pelicans don't need him with Gordon and Rivers, the Pistons can use him too but where does that put Knight and Stuckey in the plans??? VO has to be one of the hardest players to place...
5. Cody Zeller is probably the best big man in the Draft and had a great athletic showing at the combine and he can't really be getting overlooked by GM's and scout after all he's done so far, and with Noel, Len and Bennent all injured and full of question marks Cody could be the 1st big taken this year...
These 5 things most can agree on yet me and posters like me will get negged for bringing it up...Why hide behind the negative button and just come out and state your biased POV towards prospects like Noel, Ben Mac and Cody Zeller
Many people on this site, and I can't say I haven't been guilty of this, are victims of monkey see monkey do. If you get on a thread and you see someone has +5 you will be more inclined to give them a +1 than a -1 before you've even read this post, and this works vise-versa. Also there are certain posters that you just typically disagree with and people take that to the next level. I've had people go through my last 100 posts just to give me -1 before Don't worry about it, points aren't real.
I agree with you on all of those except the Zeller thing. I don't think there is much chance he's the first big taken. Not saying he should or shouldn't, just saying it won't happen.
Agreed. That's why many people give their own post a thumbs up, so people would be more inclined to give them a +1 and star the cycle going.
Contrary to popular belief, getting +1s is not easy to do, but when you make a bad post, trust me, the negs just start flowing ridiculously fast. Just for one post that goes against popular opinion, you can start racking up some serious negs.
My last few bad posts:
1. That Zoidberg failed meme: -25.
2. Calling the Dario Saric news old: -21. (I hope no one checks me on these)
3. The Spurs haters frustration post: -20-ish.
I swear I had -40 and counting going on one other post.
No one should be saying that your point count doesn't matter, because it does matter. Say if someone completely new starts posting on this site, they're going to take a look at your # of points, and your posts/points ratio, and use that to make a judgement on how well-liked you are. The reason why some guys like EuropeanBaller and Leon always get negged is because people take one look at that negative point total, and immediately discredit anything they say. Getting off to a bad start in this forum can cripple you if you're not careful.
Those points are the most used gauge of a person's credibility within the forum. Believe it or not, even some of the most experienced users look at a person's points and automatically make a snap judgement on how they should treat that person. It's natural for humans to do this.
@Crow I have to admit I've been guilty of going with the flow more than once, or just posting a vague opinion everyone can agree with, just to build my point count.
Seriously, I really wish Aran would do this:
Maybe it would make people think twice before negging all of someone else's posts.
You used to could see who negged you a year or two ago, but they took it out. I think it should stay gone because seeing who negged you will just cause more problems.
I couldnt have said this any better myself! Its mind boggling to me how i can make a post just reaching out asking a legitimate question, and just wanting some feedback...an get negged cray for it smh.
This happens to me a lot. I hate it when people will straight up Neg me wherever I go, but don't write anything to respond to whatever it is I wrote. Just being honest, users that get Negged a lot always get thumbs up from me because I feel bad or perhaps I feel it is unjustified.
But if Zeller isn't the best big man in the draft overall(size, skill and athleticism) and he's the only healthy and tearing up workouts then why can't he legitimately be the 1st Big taken...We all thought he would be hurt by the combine but then he measured a legit 7 feet tall and had an amazing vert test. He's also prime to shine in the 1 on 1 workouts too, his primary competition is injured and the second tier of Bigs arent close to Cody, Bennett, Len and Noel...
The injuries to Noel, Len and Bennett coupled with Zeller's combine performance and pre draft works will put him in the convo IMO
The biggest question mark over Zeller IMO is his demeanor. He had a knack for disappearing for stretches when he could have really been useful.
His numbers have been great that is undeniable and I am a big fan of anything/anyone Indiana, however this is a 5 on 5 game and individual workouts only give you so much.
Noel showed a great motor and always played good defense, you can see a more consistent picture from his short college career than what Zeller has done.
Zeller and Oladipo (along with Adams) are the guys I will be very interested in during the draft and I hope Cody ends up falling into a situation much like Harrison Barnes and GSW. Where his potential perfectly fits the situation.
mfs neg just to neg its just the internet, not that serious. Ima neg every post of yours for now on. Good day, chap
I really hate the Negative/Positive Points on this site to be honest. We are all stating opinions for the most part, therefore whether you disagree or agree with it is irrelevant because you can't prove you're right and so you just negative them. I honestly don't see the point in points, other than to see whether someone is a bad or good poster, but sometimes people are just highly opinionated and that wouldn't work well all the time. I also don't like points because I see people complain about them all the time, whether with good reason or not, it's annoying (obviously not referencing this thread). Maybe a system like this is necessary, but I just dislike it and think there are better options.
Almost everything you stated in your post was very opinionated. If you speak an opinion, and someone in the thread disagrees, you are going to end up getting negged. People were actually arguing Hibbert should have indeed been out at the end of the game last night. To me, that's an insane argument, but everyone has their own opinions. The object of this site shouldn't be to get thumbs up, but to discuss basketball. If you wanna be a guy with a ton of points, just post topics about articles that anyone can find on ESPN or Yahoo, or post game threads and simply say "I can't wait for this game!" and you're sure to get some points. If you choose to discuss basketball instead, some of your points are going to be well received, others aren't. Sure theres probably a couple of trolls out there just negging stuff, but overall, I don't think many on this site are out to get eachother.
but the thing is, people make very valid points on opinions and back that up with fact..
for instance, i compared demarcus cousins to vin baker, which in fact is a pretty damn good comparison, and got negged, i also posted stats, and reasoning about how both of their off court issues affected their games..
got negged bad.
i think your absolutely right that points are terrible and make people post in order to get points, distracting them from actual topics, and taking valid opinions of others seriously.
The funniest ones are those pathetic posters that go through your last 10 or so posts and neg all of them. I've had this happen about 5 times since joining the site.
To the guy who keeps on doing it. You sure showed me.
The pathetic part is the fact you know people do that, meaning you check your points often.
I don't really care about getting negged, because I've never been the type to jump on the bandwagon and I've never been the type to play follow the leader. I like to study, discern, and come up with the best conclusion based on the understanding that I have gained. I like to study the best players from every position ( PG- Magic Johnson, SG - Micheal Jordan, SF- Larry Bird, PF - Charles Barkely, C - Akeem Aloujuwan ) And determine how great a prospect will be based on the standards that determine greatness. I'm not perfect, but I think I have the ability to determine what is truly right and what is truly wrong especially when it comes to basketball skills, potential, and upside.
For example in my mock draft I have ben going to phoenix, Nerlens going to Minnesota, and alex going to cleveland
I like that you go your own way, but the information that is available to us about what teams are thinking and who they are targeting allows us insight beyond our own limitations. You may have Noel at 9, but we know for a fact that there are teams who want him well before that point as we have heard the experts and sources (which are generally very reliable) telling us that in fact the guys teams want are Noel and McElmore.
As I said I can understand and appreciate you making your own decision/opinion, but closing out the rest can be very ignorant.
I do use multiple sources of information before I come to a conclusion, but I also like to be realistic when it comes to team needs and player skill level deficiencies, and I also try to be aware of smoke screens ( An action or statement used to conceal actual plans or intentions)
Let's be real, what teams wants to invest millions of dollars on a player who is coming off a ACL injury, a player who has below average offensive skills, and a player who is extremely thin and lacks the needed strength for his position.
I only need to utilize common sense to realize that noel will be lucky to even get selected with a top 14 pick.
PG and C have forever been linked to success in the NBA. Noel is talented, very talented and although he is not polished on offense he has great defensive instincts ala Chandler, Camby, Noah, Jordan, Sanders, Henson etc. The kid is 19 he will put on size and you don't need to be big to be strong.
ACL injuries are not as bad as they one were, I mean look at Shumpert for example, took him a while to get in the swing of things but he is better than ever. From a professional stand point I find with correct rehab people come back generally stronger than when they got injured, because for guys like Noel it is a chance to rest and let his body catch up and grow.
This is off the top of my head from overall research-listening to pods-reading-watching-my opinion
Noel was the top high school guy
He played better than expected as a freshman
basically 10 10 2 4 2 - fills up the box score
was a defensive menace, better shot blocker than Anthony Davis plus 2.1 steals per
He's the 3rd youngest player in this draft
He plays above the rim. He's a coordinated athlete.
his mid range was better than Lens this year 37%-32%
I think his lack of an offensive game is being over analysed. From day 1 in the NBA he'll be good for lobs, put backs, transition baskets. His activity level will get him by until he works on moves.
He plays his ass off.
KG was 6'11 215 at the same time as Noel
I am recovering right now from an ACL and my legs and calves are tiny atm, I'm a month behind Noel. I bed he's 220 by the time hes back at least.
Listen to the BS report with Chad Ford, he explains Noel pretty well and how he's a good fit for Cleveland.
for reference, timmy duncan man, not sir charles.
with the main post as far as how people just give negs for stupid reasons and never leave feed back but its so funny that half of yall complaining about the negs are in the thousands with point lol
Yeah, but we in the thousands of posts as well.
Ain't nobody hiding. Not my fault if the site doesn't show my name when I dislike peoples post. Just if I disagree, I disagree.
the people who neg care more about points than the people getting negged
I feel that if you truly make great points about basketball than eventually people will recognize your opinions and it will show on your point count. although that isn't always the case as some great posters get negged for nothing.
I guess some people are just socially awkward even behind a computer screen and the only thing that can cure their envious rage is a good ol thumbs down
Haha well put.
Your logic is solid I just don't think Zeller has the upside as the others bigs and we all know GMs draft on the P word (potential). I used to be very high on Zeller but that Syracuse game left a bad taste in my mouth. I know it's not fair to sell on him just because of one game, but he got straight up shut down. He looked outmatched athletically and physically and it's only going to get tougher in the NBA.
I agree with chilbert, i think zeller will struggle in the pros against bigger and stronger competitors...
James Harden went 2-10 10 points and eliminated from the tourney in 09.
My point being is that 1 bad game doesn't mean jack. If i'm taking that Harden game into account when drafting then he drops to 8?
Zeller is 7'0 and the most athletic big besides Noel in the draft, but he can also play.
He talks about his outside shooting ability like there should be no questions about it. Indiana just didnt feature it at all. His shot is pristine from the perimeter. I reckon he'll be a very good NBA player
LOL i just found this looking at my account points page
Approved points Balance: 635
Points awaiting moderation: 0
Net points Balance: 635
points awaiting moderation? really? you need to mod how people voice their opinions with a thumb now too?
If you think none of Noel, McLemore, or Porter are worthy of the first pick while also thinking Oladipo could drop and Zeller is the best big in the draft over Noel, Len and Bennett then...who would you pick first?!?!
PG shouldn't be linked to greatness for NBA teams. Superstar pg's don't win rings. The last true superstar point to win a ring was Isaiah, over 20 years ago.
They are looking to trade to afflalo, apparently they would have taken Ben #1 according to reports. Orlando needs talent anyway they should take the best player on the board in McLemore no matter who they have.
This draft is pretty bad so a player like McLemore who I view as safe may not be a bad option. I think at worse he is a solid 6th man and at best he is a 2nd option. I agree he doesnt create well but his killer jump shot and athletic ability still holds value. I think he is a 15 - 20 point a game scorer and looking at the players in this draft thats pretty good
I personally am not much of a negger. In fact sometimes I think I get carried away with giving too many thumbs up, even if someone has an idea I don't agree with and they make a valid point I'm going to give them a thumbs up. Any post that is fairly long and well thought out I'm likely to give a thumbs up even if I don't agree because I applaud the effort and dedication to the post. Maybe I'm too nice but that's just how I am.
The few times I do actually neg people is when it's something I feel is offensive, hostile, immature, etc. I can't think of many other situations where I've negged someone. In fact if I strongly disagree with their post, I will just not give it a rating, rather than giving it a negative.
I know a lot of people say "points don't matter" and that really depends on the person. They may not matter to you & I, but there's a lot of people on here that it does matter, especially newer posters. If someone is new and they post an idea and it gets negged like crazy they're less likely to want to post again, which is a bad thing because the more opinions the better, but if we have people who feel like they don't even want to post because their ideas keep getting "rejected" then we're not getting as many ideas as we could. There's also a lot of new posters who will just simply quit using the site if they start off with lopsided negatives, and that isn't fair. Sure they're new but they could at least be given a chance.
A lot of people neg for posting what someone else has already posted...this one bothers me because they're just trying to make an effort to get the information out to us, maybe they don't spend hours on this site like you do so they don't know it's already been discussed. Instead of just mass negging them you could reply and say "hey this is currently being discussed here" and give them a link. It's not that hard.
No one is perfect, and no ones ideas are perfect, but you could give people the benefit of the doubt more, instead of negging tell them why you disagree with them and then that gives them a chance to come back and tell you why they think another way, which sparks good healthy debate & expands both peoples knowledge.
I would really prefer it if people had to post on a forum topic before they can negative or positive any other posts on that topic. It is easy to neg or postive people without having to reply and if we did then we may get more constructive feedback.
And this post wasn't made to complain about points per-say, just the Biased nature behind the negatives when we all have similar views about the top prospects...
I think we all have huge concerns about Nerlens Noel, from his lack of weight/strength and his previous/current injuries and the fact that he's still so raw on both ends of the floor, throw in the fact that he's not even likely to suit up this season and you have the makings of a draft day drop...
Ben Mac, where does he really fit in the top 5? Cleveland just invested a top 5 pick on Dion Waiters, The Magic need a solid veteran presence in Affalo and they just traded their backup Sg Reddick , trading Affalo now wouldn't be seen as a smart basketball move, plus they need to replace Jameer Nelson and Al Harrington before they think about trading Affalo. The Wizards just selected Brad Beal 3rd overall and he and Ben are similar players, The Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets are in need of a scorer and Ben Mac is a perfect candidate IMO...
MOST PEOPLE THINK THE DRAFT WILL GO
1. Nerlens Noel 2. Ben Mclemore 3. Otto Porter with Trey Burke, Cody Zeller, Victor Olapido and the injured Len and Bennett following shortly after.
I think the Draft goes
1. Cody Zeller 2. Trey Burke 3. Otto Porter 4. Ben Mclemore 5. Nerlens Noel 6. Alex Len 7. Anthony Bennent 8. Victor Oladipo 9. Kentavious Caldwell Pope 10. Shabazz Mohammed 11. Steven Adams 12. Kelly Olynick 13. Dario Saric 14. Micheal Carter Williams 15. Cj McCollum 16. Giannis Adetokoubo 17. Tim Hardaway Jr. 18. Rudy Gobert 19. Tony Mitchell 20. Ricardo Ledo....
You just said we all agree and then posted your pics, totally against what you said "most people think". So you are disagreeing with your own thought, then wondering why you get negatives?
Anyone who says points don't matter is an absolute liar. The week or so this site went without the points system a few years back saw forum activity drop about 90% and the few posters that stayed around all complained to bring the system back. As far as negging, people often take advantage of the thumbs down option and go overboard with it. It can't be stopped so you have to learn to deal with it.
Yeah Scarecrow, I meant to comment on your thread yesterday, but I saw it on my phone when I was on the move. I don't think Cody Zeller is any worse caliber a prospect than Noel, McLemore, Burke, Porter, Oladipo etc... I feel like he's at the same level, and I don't think it would be outrageous at all if he went #1 in this year's draft. This draft, to me, is a bunch of starters and guys with lower level All-Star potential at the top. It may not go down as a bad draft because there may be a top of 13-18 ppg scorers, to be honest, but without a "top guy" or two it's just percieved as weak.
We are all entitled to put our mock drafts up here and all views should be respected plus we know there will be big moves on the board on draft night. If someone had put Waiters at 4 on a mock this time last year, it would have been laughed at and given negative points.
If you look at most of the good drafts on here and compare them with the big site mock drafts they will be fairly similar but come draft night the actual draft will have a lot of big differences.