Why do people keep comparing MCW to Shaun Livingston?
Shaun Livingston was 6'7 who had better handles, higher basketball IQ, A good post game, a higher ceiling, more explosive explosive and better mid range shooter
MCW is 6'5 but his handles is kinda shaky, has trouble with being pressured, and doesn't have a post game. To me MCW reminds me of a better version of Julyan Stone(Who plays for denver). I don't see Shaun Livingston in his game.
MCW has potential to be a great defender and floor general but is nowhere near the type of player Livingston
Absolutely right, Livingston had an unbelievable potential but the first dagger was going directly to the L. As a point guard he robbed himself there a lot, the injury was horrific. Look, as a high school player he would be easily the first pick in this year. No comp really.
It's still very easy to understand why MCW is compared to Sean Livingston, how many 6'6 point guards are there to compare him to?
Because they are both tall point guards. Just like how every 6'3" combo guard with a massive wingspan is the next Dwayne Wade, or any defensive specialist guard who cant play offense is Tony Allen, or any good shooting 2 is Ray Allen, there are certain comparisons that are always made for certain types of players.
One of the oldest "sophomores" ever coming out. He was a man among boys in college. Not in the NBA.
He's still a rookie so of course there is upside. A lot of people though Brandon Roy didn't have upside as he was a senior, how'd that turn out? Well not very well in the end but you know what I mean.
I didn't mean no upside, but a lot less than you typically expect with a "sophomore" or Lottery Pick. Of course, players still improve into their late 20's, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
Just because he's a few months older than some other sophomores doesn't mean he was a "man amongst boys". People's bodies mature at different rates. He looks like someone that's still coming into his body.
Easy, two very tall lanky point guards that can not shoot. I think Livingston handle was overrated..yea it was good against a bunch of average high schoolers he played against but I never saw flashes of his handle in the L
I think Shaun Livingston's injury has given people a romanticized notion of the player he was, in part, because we never saw him reach his potential. He could have been a very average NBA point guard, but since he got hurt, his "potential" has gone a bit haywire IMO.
First of all, Michael Carter Williams is a much better athelte. Yep, I said it. They did the same tests and Livingston posted a meager 30'' max vert compared to MCW's elite 41''. Livingston was just a much longer player with similar speed. Shaun Livingston also had even less of a jumper than MCW. Did you know that during his 390 game NBA career he's made 9 three pointers? Freaking 9 and he wasn't any good before he got hurt so despite the fact MCW is no marksman, but he's a better shooter than Livingston was at the same age ( still pre injury 1-8 for the season )
Man amongst boys? You realize MCW and Shaun Livingston's birthdays are a month apart in the calender year. If MCW was a man amongst boys in college for turning 21 after his sophomore year then Shaun Livingston was a man amonst boys in high school turning 19 shortly after his senior year.
Shaun Livingston's injury was truly one of the most terrible I've ever seen on a basketball court, but don't let his untapped potential make him some sort of legend that trumps his actual body of work and skillset. He was a unique talent as a very long 6'7'' point guard, but he wasn't some sort of freak leaper or unflawed player. In his last year before "the injury" He put up 9 ppg and 5 apg at the same ager MCW will be during his rookie year. I don't think MCW is uncapable of doing that as a rookie.
Great post JoeWolf1....... Lol!! You closed the MCW hate very effectively.. Bravo!!
Joe Wolf right on the Money with this one!!!
JoeWolf1: The man amongst boys.
whattt do u mean he was a man amoungst boys? dog he was a SOPHMORE...There are 24 year old seniors in college bball...he was actually a man amoungst older men...it amazes me how little people really know about college hoops....I remember last year bernard james was 26 or 27 but for the simple fact that he served in the military or whatever everyone thought it was a beautiful story and nobody ever said a word about him being 26 or 27...if MCW was 27 i wonder what people would be saying lol... HE IS NOT THAT OLD damn
He was the 11th oldest player on Syracuse's roster, lol
Cedric Bozeman anyone?
Are you that down on MCW? Bozeman was a fringe player who wasn't even an All-Conference performer in college.
and Greiviz Vasquez ?
I don't think it's unfair to compare him to post injury Livingston.
MCW is good player but he's not Shaun Livingston. You forgot that when Livingston was playing behind Sam Cassell for those three years. High School Livingston is better than MCW right now. Shoot, Livingston is better right now. MCW is more Julyan Stone than Grevis Vasquez and Livingston. Vasquez is a better scorer and passer. MCW has potential to be a good floor general and defender but He doesn't have Livingston type potential. Livingston post game is another thing MCW doesn't have. Also Shaun Livingston was better from Mid range than MCW, three is only one aspect of shooting.
I'm not hating. I'm just saying the comparison is a lazy one.
And you guys better not say he's a poor man's Penny.
I don't think playing behind a 35-37 year Sam Cassell and starting during Sam's periods of injury are really relevant. In his 3rd season he played 30 mpg. I think your nostalgic appreciation for the player that was Shaun Livingston has you greatly underestimating and yes "hating" on MCW. I mean, Julyan Stone was undrafted and through two seasons has scored 43 points.
No comparison is perfect, and many are indeed lazy, but it's not some wild insult to Shaun Livingston, especially because he's in the books as a "could have" player. The fact of the matter is that during his first three seasons he was inconsistant, like many young guys, had 0 outside shot, but was a good backup and showed poise taking care of the ball and finding teamates. They had definate differences to their games, the aforementioned post game of Livingston and MCW's stronger defensive ability and athleticism, but it's certainly not the worst comparison I've ever heard.
How is Julyan Stone not a lazy comparison too? You don't think he's as good of a player as the most well known 6'7'' point guard of the past 10 years, fine, so you ingnore his game also and compare him to some random 6'6'' point guard, and one who never even scored double digits during 4 years at UTEP, is a big bulky guy who isn't particularly athletic, a guy without half of MCW's driving and defensive ability, and is a 1.8 ppg career NBA scorer? I think Stone is an even lazier comparison than Livingston, because at least Livingston was and is a regular rotation player.
Hey, MCW hasn't done anything in the league yet. Thats fine if some of you think he will bust or won't be more than a rotation guy, you're entitled to your own opinion, but fact is Livingston was ready to make the jump to the pros out of high school, he made a nice transition, but when year 3 rolls around and during Livingston's 3rd year in the league,he hadn't completely beat out a 37 year old Sam Cassell and guys were wondering when his "potential" was going to kick in. Maybe it would have or maybe he would have settled into a 10 or 12 year career as a part time starter. We won't know, but I don't think it's wild, crazy or an insult to the memory of Shaun Livingston (the high schooler) to compare the two. It's certainly a better comparison than Julyan Stone.
I see him having similar career as Alvin Williams former PG for the Raptors. A defensive PG, but lacked the skills to be a scoring threat.
I beg to differ and again Livingston and MCW are not on the same plane as natural talent goes. Livingston was an absolute magician as a ballhandler and his basketball iq was outstanding for an hs player. You can believe some combine testing but there is no doubt that Shaun was the more explosive basketball player, if You tell me MCW penetrates as well the young Livingston You leave me speechless and I would close any further discussion with You. As I said Livingston made one absolutely horrendous decision turning pro after hs.
I agree his IQ was outstanding for a high school point, which was why he was able to transition to the NBA without becoming a turnover machine. That was a great testiment to his talent and skill, but he didn't develop much up until the point his career was forever changed by his injury. My main point throughout this whole thread is that Livingstons' hype is still overblown and it's not absurd to compare the two.
Shaun Livingston was not more explosive either, he was incredibly long with a nearly 9' standing reach. I'm not a combine addict either, I watch the games, MCW was a nominee for dunk of the year as a freshman who barely played posterizing someone after a takeoff from 10 foot way from the bucket. So many times he found a break in the D drove in and slammed it on someone. That was never Livingston's game, he was a guy who was a fan of the dump off pass, the flip or the post pivot A LA Tony Parker. Don't try to tell me he was more explosive a leaper who dunked on dudes all the time like MCW. He got high because he was so long and an inch taller than MCW, MCW is an explosive leaper.
The hype surrounding this guy 10 years later is nuts, sadly his career path was altered, but it's not like comparing DeShawn Stevenson with Michael Jordan. It's not blasphemous. He didn't improve all that much from year 1 to mid season year 3 when he got hurt. The Clippers have always been my 2nd team and I saw him play plenty. I wanted him to succeed, but "natural talent" even if it goes untapped doesn't make fun to watch skilled 30 mpg guard a legend or a guy who's impact cannot be matched by a good young prospect like MCW. I see the comparison, it's not perfect, but comon' it's better than Julyan Stone, Greivus Vasquez or "insert tall pg". I think the best comparison is another former Clipper Marko Jaric who was a mean defender and high steals guy like MCW will probably be, but he gave up after he got a good contract.
IMO MCW is not even close to the player Livingston was b4 the injury. He was a true 6'7 pass first PG. I still say had he not got injured he'd be running point for a team right now (maybe even an all star). Neither player is/was very polished offensively, Livingston had sick handles tho, maybe they were exaggerated thought as a guy mentioned above. But the kicker for me was Livingston's court vision. I only gotta see him play a few times and i always felt his ceiling was VERY high. He was quite a special player, something the league hadn't really seen since Penny, even tho Shaun didn't have the offensive skills, but he wasn't ever drafted to be a scorer, i can remember reading numerous write-ups in SLAM magazines back in high school and all the scouts absolutely loved Livingston.