Why are people so optimistic about the Knicks?
I'm curious why a lot of people are so optimistic about the knicks. Sure they signed Amare Stoudamire but they also lost David Lee. So they gained 3 points per game but lost 2 rebounds a game. Is that such an upgrade? Defensively they aren't separated by much as they are both average to below average defenders. Felton is an upgrade at the point but I don't think he is that significant of one. He's a solid player but nothing more. I think he's a fringe starter in the league that is getting the benefit of the doubt due to where he was drafted. He's not that big of an upgrade over Duhon. Anthony Randolph I think is a downgrade over Al Harrington. Randolph oozes potential but I think he's one of those players that are going to tease us with his skills but never put it together. Now the young guys should improve but really do Danillo Gallinari, Bill Walker or Toney Douglas have the potential to be anything much better than what they have shown themselves to be? I just don't see them being anything more than average players. With that said they could make a move that could help them improve but the way they are presently constructed I don't see any way this team could make the playoffs. What do you guys think?
Im not that high on them but their better than last year, but Stoudemire is MUCH better than Lee, hes way more efficient than Lee, lets not forget in Phoenix he didnt get as many shots, Felton isnt that good but hes an upgrade over Duhon easily, they have a lot of young players developing.
I think their a playoff team, but partly because theirs only 6 good teams in the east, they still have three concerns to me defense, rebounding, and a legit second option.
The more I watch them, the more I start to think they are another year away from the playoffs. They are a pretty bad rebounding and defensive team still.
Not true. David lee was the 3rd most efficant player in the NBA last year. I actually thought he was lower but a knicks fan set me straight a couple months ago. After checking it out I found that Amare was 12th
Is he really that much better or a beneficiary of having better players around him? David Lee was the main option for the knicks last year, took about the same amount of shots as Stoudamire and made about the same percentage of shots as Stoudamire. What about his game is more efficient? He's not as good a rebounder and they are about the same on defense. Stoudamire is by far the more athletic player but in effect he isn't that much of an upgrade.
Felton is an upgrade I agree but not that big of one and sixth man wise they took a bit of a hit so I feel it evens out. I think Miami, Boston, Orlando, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Chicago, Washington, Philly, Indiana and Charlotte are better than them.
When looking at this current Knicks team, one should take into consideration what they've been through these past 10 years; and what they were used to before that. This used to be a team that was a virtual lock to make the playoffs every season -- even though they were rarely championship contenders. The energy and passion emitted from their crowds during playoff games was paralleled by few others.
This 2010 free-agency buildup is also a big part of all the hype. This has been talked about for years, and it was accompanied by many different roster changes and draft pick trades beforehand. If this current Knicks team isn't good enough to at least lead them back to mid-level playoff contention soon, then there will be huge disappointment among the fan base.
Don't even get me started on Isiah......
They are the most overrated franchise in the history of the NBA. They have th chance and players to get better though. I forgot al harrington was on the team last year.
You are underrating the facts they have the ability to play two legit big men instead of David lee a center u have turiaf which should improve ther interior defense from terrible to bad but I do agree they are over hyped
Because instead of going into the year reaking of death, they have the possibility of hanging around .500 for a while. Come mid-December, they'll stink again and ESPN will release another baseless rumor about Melo and how teams really like Danilo Gallinari and his 40 percent shooting.
lol randolph tease us with potential but never put it together? when he plays big minutes hes ALWAYS put it together... look at his stats last year when beidrins got injured...
Lee and Amare I think is that Amare will comand more double teams, which means more open shots for the role players around him. Lee put up great numbers, but I feel like he is the type of player where you say "oh well, let him get his 20 against single coverage because we can still win the game." If you try that with Amare he will have 40, not 20 and can lead his team to wins individually every now and then.
NYK are a one man team this year, but remember they have alot of cap space still and intrest from the top 2 free agents next summer.
We went over this before. We averaged out his stats in only the games he played big minutes. It was like 13ppg and 6 rebounds. Go to espn and average out the games he played big min. He was still inconsistant
Randolph was injured last year as well, a lot of people for get that. This is his 3rd year and he has the opportunity to put a lot of egg on people's face this year. As far as Stoudemire being a huge upgrade over Lee, he really isn't too much of an upgrade except offensively and the fact that he is more vocal. Him and Lee are both below average defenders, Lee rebounds much better but STAT is stronger and more athletic. And yes this is coming from a Knicks fan.
But overall, the Knicks really improved and playing in the East, they have a legit shot at making the playoffs. It may not be what the brass envisioned with LeBron or Chris Bosh, but they did improve over the summer for getting 3 nice pieces for a fringe all star (yes I think David Lee was overrated but I did love what he did for the Knicks) and bolstered that bench. I can see them finishing 7th this year.
When people say Felton is not a huge upgrade of Duhon it makes me think they aren't aware that Duhon averaged 5 points and 4 assists shooting under 30% playing starter minutes for a span of two months. Duhon was arguably not a TOP 50 PG, so yes a "borderline starter" is a big upgrade.
When people say that Amare playing PF isn't a HUGE upgrade over Lee playing center it makes me think they aren't aware that Lee was the only player on the Knick roster last year that should have been allowed to stand inside that rectangle that is a different color from the rest of the court called the paint. He got his rebounds because, well he had Al Harrington and Jared Jeffries rebounding in the front court along-side him. He got a lot of his points because he played legit centers that he was too quick for... he was also a 6 foot 9 punching bag for the opposing offensive players. Don't get me wrong I am aware that Amare is a poor defender.... but David Lee is in a class of his own, as a starting Center the guy averaged half a block a game and he was probably among the leaders in that category for the Knicks last year. They were one of the worst shotblocking teams in the history of the NBA. You guys may not like Amare, Turiaf, Randolph, Mozgov but those are three guys that can swat shots.
People forget that their main go to guy on offense was the dumbest ball hog in the NBA. Al Harrington is the guy who lost TWO games in about a span of a week for hanging on the rim with less than a minute left in the 4th quarter. The same guy who as a hobby enjoys dribbling into double teams and losing the ball, not passing and being called for charges because he doesn't look up when he dribbles. Can't emphasize this enough... THE DUMBEST PLAYER IN THE NBA.
When people forget that the Knicks had NBA drifters and misfits playing the 2 spot all last season with the likes of Hughes, Nate and a crippled Tmac... followed by a solid few months of starting basketball by fatboy Bill Walker... they don't seem to realize that Azibukee (when healthy), Mason and a finally healthy Chandler (averaged 16.5 ppg on 52% shooting when healthy last year) will bring some stability (not as much as one would like but better than before) to the Knicks backcourt.
When people forget that Gallo was basically in his rookie season coming off back surgery and no training camp and hit the rookie wall in the winter HARD, they don't seem to notice how well he played the months before and after that wall, which most likely came due to lack of conditioning because of the surgery.
Then people also forget that Anthony Randolphs untalented and unathletic stunt double by the name of Jared Jeffries played starter minutes because he was being "showcased" when we all know he wouldn't crack the rotation on 20 NBA teams. People forget that Knicks gave huge minutes to guys with no knees like Bender and tried to get fat overweight guys with heart conditions on the court with a prayer to trade them.
That team reaked of disfunction... and with all that they won 29 games. Remove all this garbage that I just listed and its not too crazy to say the reach 40 this year.
Now they have players that are actually here to play, that are athletic and not some rental unwanted bunch of losers trying to get a contract. They have a real leader, not some undersized stat hog, that just got his while the rest of the team got spanked. They have defensive minded players and size and actually look like a team.
Now I am not here to say the Knicks will be very good this year, because they wont. They will however more likely than not be a playoff team this year, with a lot of young talent and cap space for a max contract in the summer. All I am saying is the team going into this year compared to last years is a DRASTIC improvement... its really a day and night situation.
Sorry the post is so long, but there was A LOT wrong with the Knicks last year... those are some of the highlights.
Stoudemire gives them a post presence and he's 1 of the best big men on the pick & roll..
They will miss David Lee's hustle & him hitting the offensive glass..They also will miss Harrington's instant offense.But Harrington was a poor rebounder for his height..
Harrington single handedly wins you 3 games, while losing you 5 in the process. Trust me the Knicks wont miss Al Harrington.
The Wizards, Bobcats and Pacers are better than the Knicks? That puzzles me.
Wizards, Wall>Felton, Arenas>Chandler, Howard/Thornton<Gallo, Blatche<Randolph, McGee<Amare, Bench W. (the only significant ones are Heinrich, Young, and Thornthon, YIKES)< Bench Knicks(Douglas, Turiaf, Mozgov, Azubuike are all significant bench contributers). The wizards are strong in the backcourt vs. the Knicks but weak down low and on the bench, these two things will kill them. I don't see the Wizards making the playoffs. (Down low and bench play is huge in this league)
Pacers, Collison=Felton, Dunleavy=Chandler, Granger>Gallo, McRoberts<Randolph, Hibbert<Amare, Bench P. (Ford, Hansbrough, and Rush are the only significant players off the bench) Bench is about = to the Knicks. So this one is a fair match up, and its definitely possible that both the Pacers & the Knicks could make the playoffs as a 7&8 seed.
Bobcats, Augustin<Felton, Jackson=Arenas, Wallace>Gallo, Thomas=Randolph, Mohammed<Amare, Bench B. (Livingston, Henderson, Diop and thats it for significants) Once again Knicks win out because of the bench. The starters are pretty even but bench is where the difference is. Knicks have a huge advantage, therefore they are better.
And the Sixers, Holiday=Felton, Turner<Chandler, Iggy>Gallo, Brand>Randolph, Hawes<Amare, Bench S. (Young, Williams, Speights are the significants off the bench to me) Again these two are even. But if you look at last year's season, when the Knicks played the Sixers, The knicks often won. (And this was without Amare and Felton!) The sixers got rid of a defensive Dalembert, and replaced him with a somewhat offensive Hawes. While the Knicks have a huge upgrade in Amare over Lee, and a somewhat big upgrade in Felton over Duhon. According to this, I still see the Knicks being better than the Sixers.
I really don't see your reasoning on how the Wizards, Sixers, and the Bobcats are all better then the Knicks.
Here is how I see the east: Heat, Magic, Celtics, Bulls, Bucks, Hawks. Which leave the Pacers, Knicks, Sixers and Wizards to fight for the bottom 2. Unless Turner totally proves us wrong about what we have seen so far and has a monster rookie season, then the Sixers will have no shot at making the playoffs. And I already explained how the Wizards weak bench and poor post play makes them worse than both the Pacers and the Knicks. So sorry but out of those 4 teams you mentioned, the only one that could be better is the Pacers. And both of those teams (Pacers and Knicks) should make the playoffs (baring little injuries). So, yes the Knicks are better than the Sixers, Wizards, and the Bobcats, but equal to the Pacers.
Yes, the Knicks made a huge upgrade. Last year and the years before that, they had no shot at making the playoffs and the season was just dismal to watch because of their poor team. Lee and Gallo were the only good players out of that team. Now, you have Amare, Felton and Randolph. Playoffs are definitely a possibility, when last year and the years before that you didn't stand a chance, and would see your self with wasted lottery pick from 1-10 every year. (And yes I do mean wasted, because the only significant one was Gallo, they traded the rest away without even giving them a chance in order to clear room for a supposed Lebron. :( Yes, they upgraded a lot, but still not what many were expecting since they lost out on the Lebron sweepstakes.
I understand why the knicks signed stoudamire to that contract but david lee gave them solid numbers and he was an allstar. In my opinion they are the same team that they were last year yes felton is a major upgrade but every other position is the same to me just my opinion. Stoudamire is just a big name he puts up numbers but is he really that much better than Lee I dont think so. And its gonna be hard for them to win games because they have no defensie minded personnel on their team maybe turiaf but thats about it I think they are gonna score points but they are gonna give up a lot of points too I say they win 35 games this year.
Andre Blatche is better then Anthony Randolph and thinking about it, Blatche would look like an All Star in D'Antoni's offense....
And Ray Felton is a huge upgrade over Duhon...but thats like trying to find somebody taller then Mugsey Bogues. The Knicks won 29 games last year by out scoring opponents. They are going to outscore a lot of opponents again this year. But my major concern with the Knicks is that while they did bring in a lot of players who fit their scheme. They did not bring in a lot of players who upgrade their weakness. Randolph is a huge X factor if he drinks the cool aid he could become a Josh Smith type player for them. I really think Bill Walker is the future of the Knicks SG spot he is really coming into his own and how quickly we forget when we were hailing Walker as the next Vince Carter (Derozen has since taken that title). Mozgov is going to commit 2 shooting fouls for every shot he blocks.
Like the majority of other posters on here, I can see the Knicks being in contention for 7th or 8th seeding out East with a record around .500. Anything more would be a bonus but I cannot see them winning more than 45 games at best but their worse case scenario should be about 35 wins so it's quite a fine line and it may well come down to closing out tight games which will determine their season and possibly Coach D'Antoni's future.
With only one major signing even everyone within ESPN realises that the Knicks will not be serious contenders this year but they can bed down the complimentary players and make some strides to moving forward over the next few years. The Knicks need to walk before they can run and all Isiah's bad moves cannot be undone overnight. They brought Mike D'Antoni in knowing the teams would be entertaining in what were likely to be two losing seasons which would help placate the fans in MSG, meanwhile Donnie Walsh sorted the cap out. The T-Mac trade didn't work out and he gave up assets but that might have been a genius call if T-Mac had returned sound and near his former
I haven't heard a lot of moans from Knicks fans that they missed out on LeBron, Bosh, D-Wade etc or that they expect the team to be major contenders this year but I'm sure they all expect progression which the current roster should give them.
If Amare was in Oakland wed be talking about why G State would be in the playoffs.
people seem to be bashing d lee some which i dont get he was an all star playing out of position at center with knicks and people lovin amare well nash makes life easier for anyone playing with him felton is a def upgrade over duhon keep lovin a randolph cause he is nothing but a tease he doesnt have the heart and want too live up to his athletich ability like the b walker mention he put up very respectable numbers at the end of the year when the knicks were evaulating what talent they had on the roster they did get better on the interior d with turiaf and mozgov who i think will be the starting center in due time this season i got the knicks fighting for the 8th spot barely missing the play offs
Periods, MJ, periods.
BK Baller summed up everything well. The Knicks were a ball of hot dysfunction for a while, and have built up a team with set roles and players that understand what they're trying to do. They have 12 fouls that I feel more than comfortable throwing out against centers, a go to PF that applies constant pressure on the defense, a versatile guard/forward thats starting to show he can knock down jumpers, a point guard that still going to playing for a contract given his is only 2 years, experienced shooting guards that can defend and knock down shots. Toney Douglas is one of the best man to man defenders in the league, and he'll prove it this year. Gallo's a shooter... but he's a great shooter. Randolph is truly the x-factor. He played good minutes at center for GS, beating his man down the floor consistently, and altering shot with his length and quickness. But I can tell he's been concentrating on his shot and his ball handling, which worries me about how he sees his role. I want him to be a Marcus Camby with guard-esque skills, and he wants to be Carmelo. He can't be Carmelo. He can bulk up to ~240 and become a consistently good shot blocker/rebounder with offensive skills.
As for David Lee, he's a great player. He attacks the boards, he's a excellent passer and ball handler, has a consistent jumper out to 18 feet and has soft touch inside.
Amar'e is a worse passer, equal in handling, worse rebounder, better defender (I know, but its true) but his offensive ability is what separates them. Amar'e's first step is the best for a big man in the league, as he attacks and finishes some crazy drives to the basket. We already knock his proficiency in the pick and roll, but he's shown that he just knows how to get his shots. He's always aggressive, never relenting on offense. Lee definitely plays in the flow of the offense, while Amar'e being the uncontested best player on the team (which is what Lee was last year) won't differ. If Amar'e doesn't break 50 this year, I'll be surprised.
PS. I'll also be surprised if Amar'e doesnt make 10+ threes this year.
If the Knicks were located in St Louis the national media would quickly state that they are improved and insignificant. They are in the East so talk of the playoffs isn't crazy, but it's not meaningful talk either as no one really believes it'll be much more than a year long fight to get the 7-8 spot and likely swept in round one. Don't get me wrong they are better, but watching them play the T-Wolves in preseason and losing to a 30 TO plus effort by the Wolves told me a lot. I know it was preseason and they will get a lot better, but unlike the Lakers-Wolves game both teams were actually trying and playing hard in the Knicks-Wolves game. If the 15th team in the west can compete with you when you try then you are insignificant and only the money and market of being in NY will keep anyone in the national media talking. If Melo comes over we can reopen the story, but the Knicks are the sort of middling team that is often best served with disappointment and lottery luck. They've taken themselves out of the lottery so hoping the marketing opportunities of the city save them is just about their only saving grace. Right now their hopes are pinned firmly to a fringe superstar with eye and knee issues and a ridiculous contract. I hope Amare plays out the contract healthy and productive, but they are one significant injury away from disaster. Boston (this year) Miami and Orlando matter. The Knicks don't.
All of this hype and your team is still built around selfish, injury prone primadonnas...Randolph is your X Factor...how'd that turn out for Golden State( he was drafted to be the Pf of the future...and he couldn't even crack the starting lineup)
When Amare goes down with an injury the Knicks will be at the basement of the NBA and then the Rockets will just swap picks and steal your top 10 player...
Amare will be injured, I'll bet my first born on it....he was always injured in Phoenix and all he had to do there was catch and shoot or finish a Nash pass with a dunk...now he has the City on his shoulders...
Actually Randolph was starting before he was injured. He's now just turned 21, and you've already written him off completely. That isn't smart.
Amar'e apart from getting poked in the damn eye, has been extremely healthy. 82 games last year, 53 because of said eye problem, 79 before that, 82 before that. He spent a long time rehabbing his need back in 05-06 and has had no serious issues since. And you bet your first born? Again not very smart.
Anyway, why dont we see how the season plays out before jumping to judgments?
My question is who in the national media thinks the Knicks will do anything? Dont equate us rabid Knicks fans on this site to "the national media". I havent heard one person, NOT ONE say that the Knicks will do any more than compete for a 7-8 seed. Thats the best case scenario. So again, I d don't see where these unrealistic expectations are. And if you think that they wont even compete for a playoff birth, and that suggesting so is rediculous, then well, ok. You dont like the Knicks/Knicks fans/New York.
Honestly the national media isnt saying their gonna be a great team, but their making it seem like every star player is gonna come to New York.
The reason there is so much optimism for the Knicks is due to the fact that they finally have a more clear picture of what their team could become. You say they lose 2 rebounds and gain 4 points, but I am predicting Amare to possibly score 25-27 per game, and even if he doesn't, it will still be a huge upgrade for an offensive option. Defensively they are still a poor team, but with their style of play it is incredibly difficult to defend effectively anyway, so that will work to both sides. They gained another youthful prospect in Anthony Randolph, and on top of signing Amare they maintain a very healthy cap situation. I do not think people saying the Knicks could challenge for a 7-8 play-off spot is optimistic, but than again this team could very well miss out. The bottom line is, they improved in a couple of needed positions, they added depth (which basically means they added players that might play in a Mike D'Antoni rotation, which is really helpful to a fast paced style) and they have a new identity. David Lee was a workhorse for the Knicks, but I do not believe he is going to be much better than he already is, and now the Knicks have become a destination spot. Now, people are actively saying they want to go to New York rather than they might go to New York, which is definitely a major change. Plus, I still think they might get Carmelo Anthony sometime during this season, which is another reason I think the Knicks will more than likely make the play-offs. If they have Anthony and Stoudemire, they definitely become a play-off team in the East, even if there defense is atrocious.
He'll be another Al Harrigton type and bounce all over the place...and I'll take another side bet that Amare goes down for at least a month this season with an injury...
The Bulls were in the national convo for Wade, Lebron, Carmelo and Bosh, and no one holds that against them.
I have watched the Knicks play a couple of times with my eye specifically on Anthony Randolph, and he just doesnt get it right now. He is trying too hard to make the WOW plays instead of the RIGHT plays. He is talented no doubt but his focus is not all there yet. He doesnt do any one thing great and really needs to bulk up and work on his shot.
He can be a big impact player but it wont be this year. He is that player who dominates Summer League and disappoints you during the season. If only Denver can be fooled by his potential. I just dont see him putting it together.
and If both come up big, good for them They'll be traded away like David Lee...They want one big game from both of those guys so they can say "Look at that potential Denver or New Orleans, he's worth Melo or Paul "...they're setting these guys up for failure...either they bust on your team or some body elses team...they have been over hyped for 3 years and now it's really put up or shut up Time...If both of those guys struggle ( and less than 15 ppg is considered struggling with all this hype around these two prospects) they will start hearing the chorus of boo's and chants of Bust, Bust, Bust, Bust
Here's why I am excited for the New York Knick 2010-2011 season
-Amare Stoudemire is a top 15 NBA player. Knicks haven't had that since 1996. He plays well and should be a top 5 player scoring wise. I looked up Stoudemire's games and he's played at least 78 games in 5 of 8 years and in the years he didn't- he played 50 plus in 2 of 3. I don't see the whole "Amar'e is a glass man" theory.
-Raymond Felton is going into this season underrated. He's a solid player who was shackled down in L.Brown's system and was pulled alot for Augustin. I believe Felton should have a great season. Also, He was a top 10 point guard in pick and roll scenarios.
- This team is deep. I like the fact we have like 10-11 players who can play solid minutes (10-15 a game). I think the Knicks should be able to play a solid 9 man rotation this year and spare themselves of fatigue.
This might be bias you can stop reading here if you want
- I feel NY is getting Carmelo Anthony. BTPH feels it's just hearsay from ESPN but it's not just ESPN reporting/believing Melo is NY bound. Like I said, the Knicks could go
Gallo(5 mil), Felton( 8 mil), Curry (11 mil), Chandler (2 mil), 2 future 1st round picks and Azubkie (3 mil) for Melo (17 mil) and Martin (16 mil)
And then, the Knicks have Melo ( a top 10 player) and Stoudemire (a top 15 player) along with Douglas, Randolph, Walker, Mason, Mozgov, Fields and Turiaf.
That's all just my opinion and why I'm excited.
Obviously b/c Landry Fields is their starting SG
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