I know ESPN had a writeup on PGs the other day, and I know there was a topic on PGs the other day, but I just want to let my opinio out.
I think the answer is probably Lebron James. Rose is right there with him though. I'd rather have either of them than Paul as my PG. They're better players. Scoring like they do is basically required to win a title, having someone that can exert his will and score against the toughest of defenses over and over. Since that, or at-the-basket-defense is the most important thing in the game, far over individual assist and passing creation (Paul's forte), Lebron and Rose, who are also adept at other aspects of the game such as passing, jumpshooting, defense and rebounding, are better PGs than Paul. Paul is awesome, but until he is a scoring monster, or proves to me that he doesn't need to be to win a title as the best player, Rose and Lebron are better. You might even say others, such as Kobe or Wade, may be better picks at the PG.
I love Paul but he's kind of always the favorite PG of the old fashioned fans biased towards the small, pass first PGs. The game has changed. The guard position has been redefined. Rose might become the best ever. He was clearly better than Paul this year. 15.9 PPG??? Thanks dude. 46 wins??? Clearly the best PG????
Just my 2 cents...
Lebron is great...for 3 quarters in big games. I love Paul's heart. The best PG in the NBA seems to change often. During the season it was Derrick Rose, right when you thought Paul has lost a step, he shows during the Lakers series that he is STILL pound for pound, inch for inch the best PG in the league.
it's CP3 hands down. Maybe in a couple of years derrick rose.
PG in the game. I would take him over Rose anyday. Better defender, better shooter, more efficient, less selfish, greater vision, higher IQ. End of story.
Lebron is a playmaker, NOT a pg. He doesn;t know how to breakdown a defense, dosn't really set big men up that well compared to slashers and shooter, and he has absolutely NO idea of how to dictate tempo. There is no question that CP3 is STILL the best pg in the game, followed by Nash then Deron, then MAYBE Rose. But I absolutely want no part of LBJ as my PG. If he was able to play PG so well, don't you think that the heat would have at least tried it ONCE?!
Chris Paul is the best pure PG in the game. Rose has the most impact on games though. Rose is the 2nd best PG out there to me, in terms of making teammates better and still making plays for himself efficiently. Paul didn't look to score as much as he used to last year, but he still has the ability to create for teammates and himself at an elite level. At the highest level in basketball IMO. Rose doesn't make his teammates much better than they are, but he's unselfish and only scores like he does because their aren't guys around him that can create for themselves consistently. He's great, a hard worker (he improves something new every off-season)and he was definitely the most valuable player in the game this past year. That's outstanding for a 3rd year player. He will become the best PG in time. I said it early in his career, but Rose definitely will revolutionize the PG position.
Chris Paul, Deron Williams you can go anyway
Now Chris Paul / Derrick Rose ... in 5 years John Wall
I don't see John Wall ever being better than Derrick Rose, particularly as a top PG. He doesn't seem to be the winner that Rose is, and doesn't have the same ability to carry a team. He's talented and flashy, yes, but I don't think he'll be able to will a team to victory as a scorer and playmaker like Rose has.
Chris Paul had a bad year last year(for his standards) I wanna see how he does this year before crowning him best PG, I would go with either Rose or D-Will until Paul proves that he can still play at a high level.
He played at a high level last year. If anything, Deron Williams needs to prove he can perform at a high level next year to prove he's better than Chris Paul. He's finally on a team with comparable talent to the Hornets team Paul is on, and he didn't perform very efficient at all in his brief time for the Nets under those circumstances. Could be adjustment, but he has to prove so. Just as much as Paul has to prove "he can perform at a high level." If not, more.
Are you saying that Wall isn't the winner Rose is based off his rookie year?
I don't think you can really judge how great of a leader he'll be just going off last season. The Wizards record got worse, but many of the Wizards players struggled with injuries or played injured. Nick Young was injured and missed 18 games. Rashard Lewis missed 25 games last year and played with a banged up knee all season. Before Arenas was traded, he was out of shape because of an injury he suffered in the preseason. Josh Howard only played in 18 games because he was still recovering from a torn ACL. Andray Blatche missed 18 games with shoulder/knee problems, and was out of shape all season due to a broken foot injury during the offseason. And Wall himself struggled with injuries.
Now I'm not saying John Wall was perfect. He led the league in turnovers, and didn't play good defense for most of the season, but most of the blame shouldn't go on him for why the team was terrible. Like I said before, I think the main reason why they were terrible last year was because of it was because injuries, and also because of their big man play. JaVale McGee and Andray Blatche are both very talented dudes, but boy were they frustrating to watch last year.
Blatche was out of shape all season, and it really slowed him down. His help defense was HORRID! He was allergic to rotating and helping on the weakside. McGee is a great shot-blocker, but countless times he lost his man, got in foul trouble, and would miss rotations. They also usually didn't care for boxing out.
I just think you need to give Wall time before judging how much of a winning player he is. He has a strong work ethic, and he competes, so the passion is there.
I will take Derrick Rose for his blend of speed, athleticism, scoring, ball handling,
and passing. He can get you 30 points a game and can also give you some assists.
He was responsible for ALL of the Bulls' offense last year and got them to the conference finals.
In second place I have Chris Paul with Deron Williams right behind him in 3rd place. In fourth place I have
Steve Nash with his awesome passing, dribbling, shooting, and court vision. In fifth place I have Rajon Rondo for
his leadership, defense, passing, and rebounding.
All those guys are great point guards and each one brings something different to the table. Russell Westbrook just missed the cut since
he shot his team out of his playoff games and he appeared to play recklessly and selfishly. If he works on his distribution and leadership he will
be in the top five.
The passion certainly is there, and I don't really know if he is. He could definitely turn out to be a winner like Rose, but I don't see him being that type of guy. Wall definitely will be the franchise guy, but Derrick Rose literally carries the Bulls on his back and makes them competitive and simply shows the ability to do whatever it takes to win. He's a winner, and I don't think Wall will be quite like him in that department. Injuries happened to the Bulls just like they happened to the Wizards (Boozer and Noah were out extended times, and those 2 are arguably the 2 best players besides Rose on the team, better players than the Wizards guys who were hurt too), but Rose still won. Wall has talent, he will be an All-Star player, but I don't see him being the winner Rose is. It's early, so I could be wrong.
That's true I agree with you about Deron, he needs to first get healthy which was the case with both him and Paul last year, and then prove he can still play on a high level. I just think paul looked like a different player last year he didn't look as quick which is a huge part of his game, until he proves he can get back his quickness I personally don't believe he's the best PG in the league.
I'd say Derrick Rose because he was consistently able to will his team to victory last year. On the other hand if CP3 was fully healthy I'd have to give it to him. When CP3 is healthy no other point guard in the league can match his combination of scoring ability, passing ability, and ability to make his teammates better (there is a difference).
Can't really say that Boozer and Noah being injured were nearly as impactful as an already poorly talented Wizards team being injurd in the same fashion. Rose still had Asik,THomas, and Gibson, two of which were actually the bigs on the floor nearly the last 6 minutes of the elimination game in this years ECF. Wall had a team where Nick Young was his second best player.
Take a look at Rose's first year, you really think he looked like that much of a winner taking a back seat to a player like Ben Gordon. Really think the looked like so much of a winner. John Wall is the kind of guy who in time wil actually make his teammates better and eventually become a terrific scorer(IF he works on his jumper). Not to mention I just read that he's grown to something like 6'5 or 6'6 which could give him a much stronger advantage over Rose. I really see no validation for the comment that Wall is no winner. Since if memory serves me correctly, wasn't it Rose who blew the National Championship VS. Kansas?
Just think it's far too early to say the kid isn't a winner based on one injury riddled season with a bunch of subpar talent.
^^^Yes, I am well aware that Wall and Cousins blew their game also, just using Rose's National CHampionship screw up as a reference point.
"Can't really say that Boozer and Noah being injured were nearly as impactful as an already poorly talented Wizards team being injurd in the same fashion. Rose still had Asik,THomas, and Gibson, two of which were actually the bigs on the floor nearly the last 6 minutes of the elimination game in this years ECF. Wall had a team where Nick Young was his second best player."
Gibson, Asik and Thomas being on the floor against the Heat in Game 6 makes them great players? All 3 of those guys are basic role players. If John Wall or any PG besides Rose and Chris Paul, had Noah and Boozer out the length of time they did, there is no way you can get me to believe that team would be able to hold water, let alone be the best team in the East. The same East that has Boston and Miami?
"Take a look at Rose's first year, you really think he looked like that much of a winner taking a back seat to a player like Ben Gordon. Really think the looked like so much of a winner. John Wall is the kind of guy who in time wil actually make his teammates better and eventually become a terrific scorer(IF he works on his jumper). Not to mention I just read that he's grown to something like 6'5 or 6'6 which could give him a much stronger advantage over Rose. I really see no validation for the comment that Wall is no winner. Since if memory serves me correctly, wasn't it Rose who blew the National Championship VS. Kansas?"
Him coming in and taking a team that was a lotto team to the playoffs the next year as the rookie PG proves he's a winner, much more than him being unselfish when he has a scorer on his team like Ben Gordon makes him not look like "that much of a winner." It also speaks to his unselfishness. The same Rose that is criticized for being a scorer, is the person that was unselfish enough to realize Ben Gordon was the 1st option. He took the backseat because he had a guy who could get his own shots, even when it matters (looking at Carlos Boozer). The guy simply wins, and pretty much has ever since he's been in the NBA. Just because Wall is 6'5 or 6'6 doesn't mean he's going to be anymore able to carry guys on his back more than or even as much as Derrick Rose has done. Wall is a talent. Not once have I ever denied that. But I don't think he's ever going to be a guy who will pretty much take nothings to the brink of a Finals like Rose.
Also, who said John Wall hasn't won? I never said John Wall "was no winner." Never. He's clearly won before. My point was that he hasn't proven to be the winner that Rose has. Rose may have had a rough Nat'l title game against Kansas for his standards, but John Wall losing to a weaker West Virginia team in the Elite 8 isn't much better. That's a moot point, besides the fact that you're comparing college to the pros. With makes the point even more useless.
i really think a guy like earl watson has really been slept on--
no im kidding
rose and paul r two different kind of guys
paul being the better facilitatior, stronger defender, more unselfish
rose more aggresive, not as good of a shooter, doesnt have the vision a chris paul has
but i will say rose has a bigger impact on a game tho
so whos the best PG to me is actually a trick question.....
Rose's inability to set his teammates up was part of the reason that they couldn't get past the Heat. For all of that talk about him tking a backseat, he sure wasn;t doing a very good job of taking a backseat to Boozer or setting Boozer up for easy baskets.
I could be wrong, but I;m pretty sure they weren;t even a playoff boun team Rose's rookie year unti Salmons and Miller arived there for the last 20 some odd games.
"Rose's inability to set his teammates up was part of the reason that they couldn't get past the Heat. For all of that talk about him tking a backseat, he sure wasn;t doing a very good job of taking a backseat to Boozer or setting Boozer up for easy baskets.
I could be wrong, but I;m pretty sure they weren;t even a playoff boun team Rose's rookie year unti Salmons and Miller arived there for the last 20 some odd games."
Carlos Boozer needs to be spoonfed baskets now. Him getting $80 and flopping throughout the playoffs is because Derrick Rose didn't do a good job of setting him up. I've heard it all now....Let's use our brain and remember that Boozer was just not playing up to snuff and not try to make it as if Rose was the reason for him missing point blank shots.
And I don't know why you want to come up with these excuses as to why the Bulls got to the playoffs, like it is some slight to Rose. Him getting the Bulls to the playoffs as a rookie and playing unselfishly speaks to his intangibles and shows that he's a winner. Just because his team made moves to get him help doesn't mean you can just discredit him as a leader.
I agree he played quite well, but I sincerely think you're overrating Rose rookie year as if HE'S the reason they got to the playoffs when it wasn't. He simply had a better team than the one John Wall was given his rookie year. By FAR.
And I honestly credit it to Kirk Hinrich's leadership abilities more than I do Rose's. I think if anything, he learned how to truely lead from Kirk. Has even mentioned it befoe himself.
"I agree he played quite well, but I sincerely think you're overrating Rose rookie year as if HE'S the reason they got to the playoffs when it wasn't. He simply had a better team than the one John Wall was given his rookie year. By FAR.
And I honestly credit it to Kirk Hinrich's leadership abilities more than I do Rose's. I think if anything, he learned how to truely lead from Kirk. Has even mentioned it befoe himself."
You're making it like I was saying he was the entire reason. He obviously wasn't, since he was a 2nd or 3rd option scorer. I do think he was an impact player as a rookie, and he was a huge reason as to why a lotto team made the playoffs immediately, which speaks to him being a winner. Simple as that. John Wall wasn't nearly as ready to lead a team as Rose was as a rookie. It honestly shouldn't even be disputed, but it is by you and no one else. More about substance than style.
I'm sorry but John Wall Didn't have the same amount of talent to lead to the playoffs. Give him those same kind of teammates talent wise and if he had failed to do someting with them I could agree, just don't think it's a fair argument. Did CP3 take his team to the playoffs as a rookie? NO he most certainly didn't. Paul and Wall are true pass first point guards whereas Rose is a D Wade who just happened to learn the basic nuances of running point. He's a terrific player and certainly one who can put a team on his back and will them to victories with his scoring but when you take away his scoring, he's not able to impact the game quite as well due to his inability to make teammates better. Rose has proven to be a clutch scoring machine, but the moment his scoring was taken away, the Bulls struggled mightily. Next you look at a CP3/Wall type who may take a little while to develop as scorers, but already make teammates better are able to effect the game in multiple ways.
I admit I could be wrong about Wall, but to me with that kind of athleticism and size, there is no reason that he shouldn't be abl to become a very potent scorer himself.
Chris Paul didn't lead his team to the playoffs as a rookie. True. He's constantly overachieves with his teams though, and has advantaged in the playoffs though in past years. It's not a slight that a guard can't lead a team to the playoffs, it's more of a badge of honor (if you will) that Rose could. No one is bad mouthing Wall or Chris Paul because they didn't do it. It's just a huge statement that Rose did, especially for a lottery team. I think Rose leading the Bulls to the brink of the Finals made him more valuable than Paul this past year, and Rose not ever missing the playoffs makes him a winner. Hypotheticals, the "if you took Rose's scoring skills away" arguments be damned. That game can be played with anyone. I don't get how you can try and put John Wall in any conversation with Chris Paul and Derrick Rose anyway. Wall needs to win games and play efficient basketbal before he can be mentioned on that breath. It's really not even worth arguing, but hey, here I am...
I really dont understand why Lebron James is being considered a point guard in that post...Am i missing something? I know he's a great passer but he doesn't play the point for Miami.
its Chris Paul there is a reason why he finished as the top Point Guard because in the basketball world out of all the point guards he is the POINT GOD! Until someone knocks him off. Lebron is great dont get me wrong im a fan but he is a SF/PF who can pass not a point guard though.
This conversation begs a broader philosophical question: Whenever there are five players on the court, is one of them necessarily playing "point guard," or is "point guard" just the style of play that some players have and others don't?
For example, if all 30 teams in the NBA are in action on a given night, are there 30 point guards on the floor? Even if one team has nobody under 6-foot-9 on the court and none of them are ballhandlers, is one of them "playing point guard," or not? For example, before GS drafted Curry, Monta Ellis was considered by many to be its point guard, but he never really played like the traditional definition of a point guard. Some might say the same about Derrick Rose and others.
I would argue that the definition of a point guard is not just someone who is assuming that title regardless of their style of play. I say a point guard is a player whose first priority is distribution of the basketball, getting the other four players into the right spots on the floor, initiating offense, and delivering the ball to players in spots where they can score. To accomplish this, he must still be enough of a threat to score so that his passing lines cannot be taken away. Some examples, of course, are John Stockton, Mark Jackson, and in today's game, Steve Nash, Rajon Rondo, etc. In my perspective, if there are 30 teams on the floor in a given night, there might only be 18 point guards on the floor.
In a nutshell, a player cannot be considered a point guard just because he's the closest thing a team has and there's nobody else to assume that title. It's defined by the way he plays, not what he's called.
That was supposed to say passing lanes, not lines, my bad. Not sure why I always proofread after hitting save instead of before.