[valentine]

I’m hearing so much hype about the 2017 draft being so strong. Personally, I don’t buy into these claims until I’ve seen these kids in College but I did the notice the top of the draft board is full of US High-School prospects as usual. 

So I decided to analyse the top-end talent from the last 4 drafts

 

 

2013

 

American: Nerlens Noel, Cody Zeller, Victor Oladipo, CJ McCollumn

International: Greek Freak, Stephen Adams, Rudy Gobert, Dennis Schroeder

Winner: International

 

2014

American; Smart, Gordon, McDermott, Lavine

International: Wiggins, Embiid, Saric, Exum, Nurkic

Winner: International

 

2015

American: Okafor, Russell, Booker, Turner

International: Towns, Porzingis, Mudiay, Hezonja

Winner: International

 

2016:

American: Ingram, Brown, Dunn, Chriss, Prince

International: Simmons, Murray, Hield, Sabonis, Poeltl, Maker,

Winner: International

 

Analysis

So given that Internationally raised prospects are proving to be better than American raised kids the last 4 years, why should I expect 2017 to be any different?

In my opinion, these American kids are being raised to be more confident, aggressive and a childhood that places them in the role of  the ‘star’, yet when it comes to playing in leagues with advanced more advanced strategies, top prospects from international backgrounds are proving to be undeniably better. 

Now people will point to the fact that a lot of these International kids spent a lot of time in America before going to College…which I do not disagree with as it definitely helps their development. However if they are raised in family from a different culture, they do not possess the same personality traits as someone who was born & bred as an American. This is the key difference in my opinion. 

Verdict

The 2017 Mock draft is too heavy at the top with US Born Prospects because it defies recent trends that analyse successful draft picks from the past 4 years. 

 

[shug94Participant]

 You could say that 2014 is incomplete, due to Embiid, Nurkic and Exum’s injuries.

 

Also, in the rookie/soph game the association classified Towns as Team USA. Weird, I know, I would call him international.

 

 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Towns was born and raised in the US, he might choose to play internationally for the Dominican Rep but he’s certainly American as well…

Also to the OP, why are we excluding Parker and Randle for 2014? Both are clearly better than McDermott and were much better prospects as well.

 

 

[Hype Machine]

Being raised in the US is definitely an advantage for skills development, playing against better competition etc. You couldn’t get that kind of opportunity in Mexico, for example. It’s simply the attitude of these American kids though that is the casue of the trend, in my opinion. 

Kids like Towns would still have strong cultural roots from their home country and that influences their attitudes to everything in life, including basketball. Those who have immigrant parents would understand that your values are made up from both your family’s heritage, and also where the kids themselves grew up. 

And I just feel like some of these American kids get caught up in their own hype and ego’s before they’ve proven anything. Then College comes and they get exposed.

On the other hand, some International players in college lack that confidence and self belief like Labissiere. Someone like Towns or Simmons probably has the best of both worlds. 

If anyone can explain why there’s very few "born and bred" American prospects coming through at the moment with the type of Superstar potential we  have got the last 50 years prior, then I’m all ears. I just was looking at the last few drafts and trying to come up with an explaination as to why there has been such a significant dropoff. 

 

[Hype Machine]

Being raised in the US is definitely an advantage for skills development, playing against better competition etc. You couldn’t get that kind of opportunity in Mexico, for example. It’s simply the attitude of these American kids though that is the casue of the trend, in my opinion. 

Kids like Towns would still have strong cultural roots from their home country and that influences their attitudes to everything in life, including basketball. Those who have immigrant parents would understand that your values are made up from both your family’s heritage, and also where the kids themselves grew up. 

And I just feel like some of these American kids get caught up in their own hype and ego’s before they’ve proven anything. Then College comes and they get exposed.

On the other hand, some International players in college lack that confidence and self belief like Labissiere. Someone like Towns or Simmons probably has the best of both worlds. 

If anyone can explain why there’s very few "born and bred" American prospects coming through at the moment with the type of Superstar potential we  have got the last 50 years prior, then I’m all ears. I just was looking at the last few drafts and trying to come up with an explaination as to why there has been such a significant dropoff. 

 

[ItsVictorOladipoParticipant]

Towns was born and raised in the US, he might choose to play internationally for the Dominican Rep but he’s certainly American as well…

Also to the OP, why are we excluding Parker and Randle for 2014? Both are clearly better than McDermott and were much better prospects as well.

 

 

[shug94Participant]

 You could say that 2014 is incomplete, due to Embiid, Nurkic and Exum’s injuries.

 

Also, in the rookie/soph game the association classified Towns as Team USA. Weird, I know, I would call him international.

 

 

[KingslayerParticipant]

One noticeable caveat is KAT. His mother is Dominican, but he was born & raised in the USA. I know he repped the Dominican national team before, but he’s an American player in every sense of the word. Just pointing that out…

[KingslayerParticipant]

One noticeable caveat is KAT. His mother is Dominican, but he was born & raised in the USA. I know he repped the Dominican national team before, but he’s an American player in every sense of the word. Just pointing that out…

[OhCanada-Participant]

 2016 is a tie as of now but it does seem as though international will take that one.

Towns is American so 2015 goes to U.S.A.

Jabri Parker and Randle were left off your list 2014. For 2014 the American list is better and deeper than the international list when you take into consideration Embiid, and Saric haven’t even played an NBA game and Exum missed his sophomore season and was underwhelming as a rookie. Although that is subject to change.

 

[Hype Machine]

It’s debateable about which group of players are better since its so early….I just went with what it looks like now. 

And I’m not prepared to dump Towns in the "American" pile yet. I don’t know the guy personally, but to be fair his values are probably half influenced by his American life, and half by his Dominican Heritage.

Kinda like how the kids with Middle Eastern parents at my school had different values to the kids with Aussie parents.

[Hype Machine]

It’s debateable about which group of players are better since its so early….I just went with what it looks like now. 

And I’m not prepared to dump Towns in the "American" pile yet. I don’t know the guy personally, but to be fair his values are probably half influenced by his American life, and half by his Dominican Heritage.

Kinda like how the kids with Middle Eastern parents at my school had different values to the kids with Aussie parents.

[ghettosermonParticipant]

I don’t want to make this into a cultural or economic discussion but I think it’s a little silly to say that KAT isn’t "American" and basically making the insinuation that KAT is the player he is because his mother is Dominican and brings that “culture” and discipline. Work ethic and morals are instilled by human beings not by culture/race. Calling Towns international is absolutely silly. The guy is born and raised in Jersey. Would you consider Jordan Clarkson an "international" player because his Mother is from the Philippines. 

I thought the discussion would be geared more towards development in the U.S. vs internationally and the larger discussion if AAU basketball is helping or hurting players, so for you to dub KAT as "international" because of values instilled from his Domincan mother I think is getting into a entirely different discussion. I think a far more compelling discussion to have is the fact that KAT elected to not go the AAU route growing up. Possibly that allowed him to further develop his skills instead of the AAU enviornment where it is a more alpha male enviornment where you laud over who’s the fastest and can jump the highest not necessarily who is most skilled. 

[ghettosermonParticipant]

I don’t want to make this into a cultural or economic discussion but I think it’s a little silly to say that KAT isn’t "American" and basically making the insinuation that KAT is the player he is because his mother is Dominican and brings that “culture” and discipline. Work ethic and morals are instilled by human beings not by culture/race. Calling Towns international is absolutely silly. The guy is born and raised in Jersey. Would you consider Jordan Clarkson an "international" player because his Mother is from the Philippines. 

I thought the discussion would be geared more towards development in the U.S. vs internationally and the larger discussion if AAU basketball is helping or hurting players, so for you to dub KAT as "international" because of values instilled from his Domincan mother I think is getting into a entirely different discussion. I think a far more compelling discussion to have is the fact that KAT elected to not go the AAU route growing up. Possibly that allowed him to further develop his skills instead of the AAU enviornment where it is a more alpha male enviornment where you laud over who’s the fastest and can jump the highest not necessarily who is most skilled. 

[Hype Machine]

I don’t want to get bogged down on Karl Anthony Towns since I’ve already accepted that he’s probably not the best example. But theres a clear pattern emerging in the last 4 years. 

Are you acknowledging or dismissing that there’s a trend heading in the favour of players with international backgrounds?

And if so, give some reasoning behind why you think it is or isnt the case. 

 

[Hype Machine]

I don’t want to get bogged down on Karl Anthony Towns since I’ve already accepted that he’s probably not the best example. But theres a clear pattern emerging in the last 4 years. 

Are you acknowledging or dismissing that there’s a trend heading in the favour of players with international backgrounds?

And if so, give some reasoning behind why you think it is or isnt the case. 

 

[OhCanada-Participant]

 2016 is a tie as of now but it does seem as though international will take that one.

Towns is American so 2015 goes to U.S.A.

Jabri Parker and Randle were left off your list 2014. For 2014 the American list is better and deeper than the international list when you take into consideration Embiid, and Saric haven’t even played an NBA game and Exum missed his sophomore season and was underwhelming as a rookie. Although that is subject to change.

 

[r377Participant]

2016 Inter’s take it easy (although it will take 2 or 3 years for the results to come through). You can add Dragan the Bender.

Prob not a lot of NBA American starters taken outside of top 10, compared to Papa, Hernangomez, Yabusele, Zizic, Luwawu, Korkmaz, Zubac who most of them should be starter material….

[r377Participant]

2016 Inter’s take it easy (although it will take 2 or 3 years for the results to come through). You can add Dragan the Bender.

Prob not a lot of NBA American starters taken outside of top 10, compared to Papa, Hernangomez, Yabusele, Zizic, Luwawu, Korkmaz, Zubac who most of them should be starter material….

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 If you play college I don’t think it counts as being truly international 

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 If you play college I don’t think it counts as being truly international 

[BallerScriptParticipant]

 If your point is that international players are becoming better prospects and players than U.S prospects because of less exposure and "hype" then I would half agree with you. The talent level in countries outside of the U.S is significantly lower and the international exposure the top players get is no where near the amount american players get. Aspects like competitiveness and work ethic are all parts of human behavior that depend on how valued it is in their society and with that in mind you can’t class americans as one and every other country with their own cultures and society as one. Each society has a different culture and that would affect the players aspects of work ethic, competiveness, style etc. For example New Zealand basketball from a youth stand point has very little emphasis on long range shooting but a lot of emphasis on rebounding, defense and toughness. Also the level of competitiveness in basketball is much lower then that of other countries. 

I could go on about this and hand it is as an NCEA essay  but it is just a thought.

 

[BallerScriptParticipant]

 If your point is that international players are becoming better prospects and players than U.S prospects because of less exposure and "hype" then I would half agree with you. The talent level in countries outside of the U.S is significantly lower and the international exposure the top players get is no where near the amount american players get. Aspects like competitiveness and work ethic are all parts of human behavior that depend on how valued it is in their society and with that in mind you can’t class americans as one and every other country with their own cultures and society as one. Each society has a different culture and that would affect the players aspects of work ethic, competiveness, style etc. For example New Zealand basketball from a youth stand point has very little emphasis on long range shooting but a lot of emphasis on rebounding, defense and toughness. Also the level of competitiveness in basketball is much lower then that of other countries. 

I could go on about this and hand it is as an NCEA essay  but it is just a thought.

 

[Hype Machine]

Kiwis should ask if they can send one or 2 of their best players per year to the Australian Basketball Centre of Excellence. That place is proving to be a haven for NBA talent.

Then send them to College in America. Theres no decent development pathway in NZ despite a lot of basketball fans. 

That would lead to better top-end talent and Im sure a deal could be reached with Australia if they kick in a bit of cash or benefits.

Eg…an agreement to stop getting drunk and starting fights in our pubs or perhas half price for those dreadful L&P soft drinks.

 

Also as a side note: Congratulations to the Australian ‘Sapphires’ who demolished team USA en route to a gold medal in the FIBA U17 Championships. First time Team USA has ever been beaten. (Girls event…but IDGAF, Im hypping it anyways).

[Hype Machine]

Kiwis should ask if they can send one or 2 of their best players per year to the Australian Basketball Centre of Excellence. That place is proving to be a haven for NBA talent.

Then send them to College in America. Theres no decent development pathway in NZ despite a lot of basketball fans. 

That would lead to better top-end talent and Im sure a deal could be reached with Australia if they kick in a bit of cash or benefits.

Eg…an agreement to stop getting drunk and starting fights in our pubs or perhas half price for those dreadful L&P soft drinks.

 

Also as a side note: Congratulations to the Australian ‘Sapphires’ who demolished team USA en route to a gold medal in the FIBA U17 Championships. First time Team USA has ever been beaten. (Girls event…but IDGAF, Im hypping it anyways).

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 Ben Simmons dad is American born and raised. Looks like he got his talent from America.

[SeattleSuperChronicsParticipant]

 Ben Simmons dad is American born and raised. Looks like he got his talent from America.

[nill650Participant]

 ask that question in 3 yrs for the 2013 4 for 14 etc……but it does look like 2015 goes to the intl projecting into thier primes for sure. I don’t think it says much about anything other than some foreign born foreign raised prospects have more pt in more competitive leagues before ever coming over here. As far as the ones born in Canada Like Wiggins but played College ball in the States does’nt fit the same mold as a Porzingas

[nill650Participant]

 ask that question in 3 yrs for the 2013 4 for 14 etc……but it does look like 2015 goes to the intl projecting into thier primes for sure. I don’t think it says much about anything other than some foreign born foreign raised prospects have more pt in more competitive leagues before ever coming over here. As far as the ones born in Canada Like Wiggins but played College ball in the States does’nt fit the same mold as a Porzingas

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