Which of these two teams has a brighter future; Kings or TWolves ?
TWolves young key pieces:
Anthony Randolph ( who showed some promise the last 15 games or so of the season)
Kings young key pieces:
Which of these two teams do you like going forward? Which team will make the playoffs first?
Both teams have players that have questionable character (Beasley, Cousins), both have questionmarks at the PG spot (Is Rubio as good as advertise, can Jimmer handle the task of an NBA PG). Each team has a good player to build around, but will they be around for long?(Will Love be committed to TWolves once his contract is up, and how long will Tyreke and DeMarcus continue to share the spotlight without one of them being envious or feel overshadowed).
I think the Kings hands down have a better future.
They have a potential star C in DeMarcus Cousins, Tyreke Evans has the ability to be a great building block as a combo guard on both ends, Jimmer Fredette will be a good PG and scorer, and JJ Hickson will contribute as a scorer and rebounder, but he has to defend better. They also have Tyler Honeycutt as a possible future rotation player as a 2nd round pick. I doubt Jason Thompson has a future in Sacto and I don't know how long Thornton will play there either. Thornton is a good scorer off the bench ideally though. He can put up points quickly.
The T'Wolves don't strike me as a team that will be all that good in the future. David Khan just doesn't do it for me, for 1. Mike Beasley probably doesn't have a long term future there. Derrick Williams will be solid as a scorer and rebounder, but nothing spectacular. Kevin Love is productive, but he's a bad, bad defender. Rubio will never truly be an efficient scorer I don't think, although he will get assists and steals. Wesley Johnson, the jury is still out on him. He's not going to be more than a steady role player who hits spot-up shots, willingly defends and makes the occasional athletic play. He cant create for himself. Darko, nahhhh. Anthony Randolph doesn't want it enough. They have more questions and problems than the Kings.
Minnesota is so much better than the Kings going further. Minny will def make the playoffs b4 Sactown. There going to put out multiple lineups next year, for any oppsing team in the league, now the key would be being competitive and winning some games.
All the pieces are there. They just need a coach who can get the most out of them. I would actually try running my offense around DeMarcus honestly. He has that 20-10 potential and unless Tyreke becomes a great jump shooter, I have more faith in his scoring abilities that Reke. Tyreke and Jimmer will mesh together quicklt but as J-Nix mentioned, that kind of leaves out Marcus who I think will be gone via free agency or trades. He can start on another team.
Wolves need to show me how they are planning on running their offense and if Ricky Rubio is that guy who can lead them. Not saying he has to average 15-18 ppg but I do want him to control the tempo much like a younger Rondo. He has some talent but that team can onlky go as far as he leads them IMO
I gonna say kings
1. Nice pieces in jimmer(even though im not high on him), Evans, Dcousins, and JJ hickson
2. David Khan is not their gm lmao!(strong case for number 1 reason)
3. Twolves are becoming the joke of the nba, they haven't made the playoffs in the last 7 years, haven't won more then 40 games the past 6, or haven't won more then 25 games the past 4, those are horrible numbers totaling a record 187-387 over the last 7 years and an horrible .325 win percentage
4. The kings haven't been good either not winning more then 25 games over past 3 seasons as well but they have a better chance of drawing a good coach, and a gm who is putting an actual team togather, unlike khan is stockpiling young potential players(who half of them dont have the work ethic to reach it btw).
5. Also when you draft a player who lies about their age saying their a 21 year old, just to find out their 28 when it was clearly posted on the fiba website, you know your a sh!tty gm and scout.
... Now if Glen Taylor wises up and fires Khan and gets a real gm, and a real coach then maybe just maybe twolves can pull it off, but til then im sorry Twolves fans, kings have the better future now if in sac. or another city is yet to be determined
Id give it to Sacramento by a hair, but unless Tyreke smartens up and gets a jumpshot, and Cousins can accept that he isnt the alpha male until he earns that these guys arent going anywhere.
Both teams have tons of talent but no actual guidance. The team systems are not followed by the players, every year the system and personnel of the teams gets flipped upside down and they fail to build continuity.
Minnesota is a team that has been built to put three stretch/perimeter PF's on the floor for the majority of the game (Beasley, Williams, Love), who range from horrible to average defenders, and dont protect the rim. Only one of those guys should even be on that team, the way the run and gun system is played by a team like this they would need a solid defending SF who can knock down shots, and a mobile and athletic C who can protect the rim...But I love the depth of talent they have at their disposal.
Sacramento is a team of great scoring players, and good rebounding as well but how will they get stops. With Cousins and Hickson starting where will they ever get stops. Not only that but they have no true PG...no floor general. Thornton, Evans, and Fredette will all need touches. Personally I think Evans is one of the most overrated players in the game. He is a good player especially at that age to be doing what he has done, but his game has many limitations as well. For some reason when I watch him play it seems like he could give more effort, especially when defending. He also has to learn how to be more decisive with his shot selection and ball control. Cousins is a great talent but he also is very young and has lots to learn about not only the obvious defending, fouling, ball control, shot selection, but he needs to learn how to talk to people and be composed. DeMarcus Cousins is not a professional yet, and NBA players cant be walking around like juvenille delenquents. Telling the refs how you feel every time up and down the court will not result in more wins even if your feeling great, happy, and cheerful everytime you pass.
And also I dont think Beasleys character is bad, society might though. He just likes to smoke weed and make jokes and he has enough money to not have to hide it... He is still professional.
The T'Wolves have more talented players by a long shot, but they absolutely don't fit together. The T'Wolves need to pull off a major trade I think to break up the log jam at the forward positions, as arguably 5 of their 7 best players are forwards, and none of them are great defenders. I think they should see if they can get a good defensive C or SG for Beasley and/or Randolph.
I know it's not the point of the post, but I don't think you can put Cousins in the same group as Beasley when it comes to character concerns. Cousins is somewhat immature and has emotional issues or something, but he hasn't gotten into any real trouble. Beasley, on the other hand, has been in trouble consistently on and off of the court. He was caught smoking weed during rookie orientation, has been to rehab, was fined consistently during his tenure with the Heat and was caught again with weed recently. TMZ also took a picture of him passed out on a boat with some chick and beer bottles all around them. I don't think Beasley's character is questionable anymore... It's safe to say it's poor.
But to answer the main point of the post... This is like choosing between two ugly chicks.
Evans - He can be a great combo guard at both ends, but his jumper is suspect and he's too ball dominant. His work ethic is also poor. He has the tools to be a great player.
Cousins - Has star calier potential and talent, but he has his issues. He also isn't interested in playing defense either.
Thornton - He has some talent and can score, but he's just good at putting up numbers on a bad team in my opinion. There was a reason he was in Monty Williams' dog house and got traded from a playoff team.
Fredette - We don't know how he'll fare in the NBA. He can't defend and isn't really a point guard. Also used to dominating the ball in college, which won't be the case in the NBA.
Hickson/Thompson - They're both solid power forwards, but lack in certain areas and just don't seem to be able to put it together. Thompson probably will be traded.
Whiteside - Didn't see much of him, but I assume we will see a little more of him this season. We know he's long, athletic for his size and a great shot blocker. He's immature and raw though.
Love - We know his strengths and weaknesses. He's probably the third best player on a championship caliber team and he can't defend. He's an amazing rebounder and very good offensive player. Despite his flaws, he's one of the top power forwards in the league.
Beasley - He can score, but what else? He doesn't defend. Doesn't rebound. And he can be a ball stopper. Plus his character is poor. He's probably best in the 6th man role even if he does get his act together.
Williams - He's hungry. He'll work. I think he'll be a good player in the NBA, but he hasn't played a game yet, so we don't really know how go he'll be. I feel safe saying he'll be at least a good NBA player though.
Rubio - The hype on him has gone down in my opinion. I watched him do an interview the other day and I've seen women with bigger arms than him. I know he's a great passer and can steal the ball, but his jumpshot still hasn't improved. I can't wait to see what he's all about.
Johnson - I used to think he compared a little to Danny Granger, but now I think he's just a more athletic Rasual Butler.
Randolph - He's still living off of potential. He looks good on paper, but he's not a hard worker.
I mean, I guess I'd go with the Kings. Evans and Cousins can be a great duo.
the Kings. Twolves are a much bigger mess.
when you posted Darko as one of the Twolves young key pieces
Well he is 26yrs old, and he is a piece of......TWolves.
I do agree with everyone that Kings young talent seem to fit one another better, and has talent spread at different positions, unlike the Wolves who are stacked at one position (forward). I completely forgot about Kings acquisition of JJ Hickson, that move was under the radar and he will be great to pair up with Cousins.
I laughed when I saw how many pints you've totaled in over a year!
I've got a good feeling that they'll turn the corner in 2 years and be better than half the western teams, including Sac. Who I see falling, even though they may have a better 2012 (but not by much) I predict they're backcourt is going to fail them. I love the Jimmer, whatever his pro role, but I think Tyrekes value will drop big!
That is a really good question personally I don't trust either side, but I'll take the Kings the talent level of DMC, Tyreke Evans (especially off the ball). Khan's management of the T-Wolves makes me unable to pick them
Whoever says the twolves have anything better than the kings have to be on something... im not just being a homer as i am a kings fan. but, our best player tyreke, has more potential than the twolves best player kevin love. tyreke had one "down" season (17 ppg 6 rpg 5 apg 1.5 spg) with plantar fasciitis basically all season after averaging 20-5-5 his rookie year. kevin love had a great year last year, but i dont feel he'll play at that level again for the rest of his career for some reason. i expect derrick williams to get some of his pt and i just dont see him having that kind of year again. the kings will be able to outscore most of their opponents once they can figure out each players' role. im good with us scoring a ton before we learn to defend well. its a process, teams normally score and become exciting and then in those years the front office makes the moves necessary to make the team a true contender. as long as we're exciting and competitive next year im happy. also figure in that we have money to spend on possibly nene, or tyson chandler or david west etc we are in MUCH better shape than minny. the only thing minnesota is better than sacramento in is consistently landing a top 5 lottery pick lol
Right Now the Choice is EASILY The Kings...Cousins has the talent to be a top 5 center..Cousins a good low post player,passer and rebounder..And Evans slowed a bit last season,but he's capable of being an all star...I'm not that impressed with Hickson,i said it last season that wasnt a guy you can depend to be consistent every night and it seems like the Cavs viewed things the same way and shipped him out ..
Kevin Love proved everyone wrong and showed he wasnt just a stiff..He is a very likeable and marketable guy..But if he's your best player ,your team isnt all that good...Rubio's game is better suited for the nba then international play...So if Nellie is their new coach and brings in his run & style offense..It'll show Rubio's strengths...Plus Rubio's defense is underrated..Kobe and coach K .still talk about how he pressed TEAM USA whenever they tried bringing up the ball...
Both teams have valuable young pieces, but Sacramentos pieces complement each other, Minnesota's don't.
They will role to a startling .500 + season. With all those prospects it's bound to happen
what if you add utah to this list? where do they fit in?
Who says Jimmer will run the point?
I think Evans will be the playmaker and primarily run PG, allowing Jimmer to be the outside shooting threat on the wing.
Then on D, if the size mismatch is too vast in Jimmer covering the 2, you can allow him to cover the PG and Evans to cover the SG.
I'll go with the Kings for three reasons.
1. The Kings young players compliment each other much better.
2. Minny's backcourt is a disaster.
3. Minny doesn't have their own pick next season. So the Kings will most likely add one more stud young player to their core and Minny won't.
The Jazz are right there with these two teams, and could be a surprise playoff team, as opposed to these teams that are even younger.
It all depends on the growth of their young prospects. If Gordon Hayward can be a solid wing player the way he was at the end of the season, (maybe 15, 5 and 3 at his peak) Alec Burks can be nice 3rd or 4th option, (An efficient 13 points playing 30 some odd minutes off the bench) as well as Derrick Favors developing into a potential All-Star, (even 18 and 8 would be nice) Enes Kanter being an above average Center, (14 and 7) and Al Jefferson continuing to get 19 and 9, as well Millsap even getting 15 and 6, in a supporting role, as opposed to a core player. I haven't even mention Devin Harris, who doesn't have to put up the All Star numbers he had that one year in New Jersey, but somthing like 15 and 5 would be nice.
They would need 1 of the 3 bigs to step up and be the elite franchise player. But remember, these are all best case scenarios, in theory, some of these players are either going to get moved or be a bust. But in three years, with Jeferson, Milsap, and Harris being still 30 or under, and those guys moving into their prime, this team could be as dangerous as anyone, but you need that go to player down the stretch of games, as Denver learned this post-season.
Honestly I dont like either of these teams rosters that much, each team has a couple of nice pieces but as a whole they are flawed and both are several seasons away from being in the playoffs. The assets on the Kings are Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins, JJ Hickson, Marcus Thornton and Jimmer, the Twolves assets are David Love, Anthony Randolph, Michael Beasley, Wesley Johnson, Ricky Rubio and Derrick Williams (Luke Ridnour and Darko are tradeable, unlike the rest of the kings roster I didnt list, however I would not consider them assets as they are barely above replacement level). I would choose the Kings as having a brighter future because I respect Petrie's decision making 10x more than I do Kahn's and I think if the Maloof brother's move the Kings and get some revenue they will be much more willing to spend on players than Glen Taylor. I believe the Twolves have amassed more talented players on their roster, but a lot of them are very similiar and primarily play at either forward spot, therefore they cant get their most talented players on the floor all at one time like the Kings can. The Kings are depending on Tyreke and Cousins to lead them to the playoffs, while the Twolves are depending on Love and Rubio to lead them to the playoffs, ill take the Kings twosome over the Twolves twosome any day of the week. The one wild card in this discussion in my opinion is AR15, I think this kid has superstar talent and has already proven he can contribute in the league when given palying time, but he needs to learn how to play with Love when they are on the court at the same time and needs to work on the mental aspects of his game.
Kings trade idea:
Kings Send: Jason Thompson and Marcus Thorton and 1st rounder
Blazers Send: Nicolas Batum
Suns Send: Robin Lopez and Warrick
Kings: gets a defensive starter and better big depth
Jimmer - Tyreke - Batum - Hickson - Cousins
Thomas - Salmons - Honeycutt - Warrick - Lopez
Blazers: get a center to replace Oden
Miller - Matthews - Wallace - Aldridge - Thompson
Mills - Smith - Roy - Babbit - Camby
Suns: get a scorer off the bench and a developmental center and a 1st rounder
Nash - Hill - Dudley - Frye - Gortat
Brooks - Childress - free agent - Morris - Whiteside
These are two very different teams...
KINGS... I think the reke PG experiment may be over... while his numbers were fantastic over the last two years I just don't see a solid future for him at the position... but he is a pretty ball dominant guard with no jumpshot and if you can't hit shots in this game as a guard (or any position) your ceiling is only so high... unfortunately i feel like jimmer isn't much less ball dominant and loves to chuck the rock... he is very used to being the only offensive threat on the court and he'll have to learn to give up the ball very quickly otherwise cousins will threaten to eat him... and guess what thornton can score too..
meanwhile in the frontcourt they have jason thompson who can put up numbers as a solid rotation guy cousins (he's good) and whiteside who has the potential to be a great shot blocker. But the backcourt will make or break this team.
so essentially you have a bunch of guys who enjoy scoring (an exception of whiteside) and occasionally make good passes to each other.. i don't see the upside there... unless tyreke develops a jumpshot in which case he will be among the top 10 maybe even top 5 players in the game and this team will be great...
Now the wolves... whereas none of their talent seems to fit together (since it doesn't) I feel like they have the potential to be a team... williams beasley love randolph johnson rubio darko.... you have a proven scorer (beasley), one of the best rebounders of the game (love), a potentially great perimeter defender/budding scorer (johnson), an athletic freak (randolph), a true competitor (williams), a person who no one knows whether they will be good on offense or not (rubio), and darko who occasionally gets a block... all of these players are very young with a wide array of abilities... On this team i feel like all of them can reach their potential in 1 or 2 years (an exception of darko who refuses to get better out of principle).. which is an incredible concept to consider... whoever will coach this team for atleast the next 5 years will have ridiculous depth to work with... and in contrast to the kings a veteran presence will help this team substantially and they have enough cap room to work with and playing time to offer (SG!)... and lets be honest the last thing this team needs is a rookie on it... so I don't think missing out on next year's draft will hurt them that horribly even though they'll be missing out on a ton of quality players... a wise free agent signing would help them more in my view..
I believe the key for the wolves is rubio's play.. if he actually is a good distributor we could start to see incredible improvement from this team next year (if there is a season), if he isn't this team probably won't win 30 games...
.... I'm sorry i recognize the fact i may be insane and that this post makes no sense...
The Timberwolves have a lot of pieces that don't fit, and I don't think the Kings are a team with pieces that don't really fit either. For me, the Wolves have a lot of trading to do when the Lockout is lifted, and get their similar pieces out of town. There isn't room on a basketball court for D Will, Wes Johnson, Anthony Randolph, Kevin Love, and Michael Beasley. While it's good to have pieces that can be swapped easily, it can disrupt team chemistry with complaints about minutes. The addition of Ricky Rubio will rejuvenate a fan base looking for any bright lights at the end of their dark, and dreary tunnel. I hope he delivers for them, just to see some success for those fans.
The Kings are an interesting team with Jimmer, Evans, Salmons, Hickson, Cousins, etc. Hickson is a great addition, and for Omri Casspi is a steal. Not that Casspi is a bad player, but Hickson is high motor post player who just goes at it every night. I'm not as big of a fan of the backcourt Jimmer and Tyreke. Both like to make plays with the ball in their hands, and I worry that unless they do some deferring to one another, it won't be as successful as some think it may become. I'm a huge fan of cousins, and I'm still upset the Sixers didn't take Cousins in 2010. We needed a low post player, and Cousins was the best talent in the draft. Last season we could've taken DeMarcus Cousins, and this season we could've taken Singleton, or Brooks, or even traded up for Burks, or Leonard. Which two pieces would you rather have Cousins, and Singleton, or Turner, and Vucevic? To me, it's a no brainer, it's Cousins and Singleton.
I would lean towards the Kings as having the better future because I think their team is a better overall fit than Minnesota. Minnesota has a lot of these tweener 3/4 guys, and that really worries me. Sacramento has better pieces, and I think can make a stride or two forward this year. The interaction between Jimmer, and Tyreke is going to be extremely crucial to where the Kings end up in 2011/2012.
I didn't proofread my post properly and I said that Cousins was the best talent in the draft in 2010, but I never included the words post player. I'm not trying to say Cousins is a better prospect than John Wall.
Many of the main point have been covered, but I thought I'd add something which will strongly influence my decision. Rumours are circulating that Adelman is a potential candidate for the head coaching position, and his good relationship with Love means it could actually happen. If the Timberwolves can land Adelman as head coach I'll take them as the better team, as I think Adelman is leagues ahead of Westphal, and often the most important thing for a young team is the right direction.
I like the Kings' roster better, especially given their better veteran depth, but Adelman would tip the scales for me, as a coach who always seems to get results no matter what hand he is dealt in terms of injuries.
I've always said this, but i think the Wolves will be the next OKC>
I see Kevin Love as a Future franchise player. Build around him (there are few good big men in the league, especially since alot are starting to grow old) you already have Michael Beasley as the 2nd option, Ricky Rubio as the future point guard. Now all you need is a Starting 2-Guard and a Center. Wesley Johnson could be a good 6th man (i dont see him as a 2 though maybe he could play it.) You have good assets in Anthony Randolphm,Derrick Williams. I dont think Derrick Williams will be better than beasley. I say trade derrick williams for a 2-guard or a good Center. and they'll do good. They're still young if Beasley can fix or limit his off the court issues. Kevon Love prove this season wasn't a fluke and Rubio be a decent or Above average lead guard in the NBA they could do some damage.
I love Kevin Love as much as the next guy but he is not a franchise player i think he is in the pau gasol of a 1st option on a bad team/ 2nd option on a good team. A team with Michael Beasely as their 2nd best player is doomed for the lottery. I cant see a team with beasely on it ever being a contending team. Randolph doesnt have the drive to be a good player. I still need to see more from wesley johnson and anything at all from rubio and williams.
Kings have Tyreke Evans who is a proven all star caliber player. Cousins is gonna be a perrenial all star. I have yet to see Jimmer but i feel he has the tools to be a solid nba point guard. I like Hickson and Thompson as big men next to Cousins and Thornton as a sixth man. They actually do have a 1st round pick next year and the position they need to adress is a strength of the draft in which 7-8 players at small foward could go in the top 10
yall forgeting john salmons for the kings now